origin-8 "gary" bars- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    origin-8 "gary" bars

    J&B is now stocking generic-branded copies of all three on-one bars. Any shop should be able to get you them for around $20.

    As near as I can tell, these are the exact same bars, being resold under a different brand, by the company that makes them for on-one.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink1373
    As near as I can tell, these are the exact same bars, being resold under a different brand, by the company that makes them for on-one.
    If this is correct - and I doubt it very much - heads will roll.

    We have a very good relationship with our handlebar manufacturer, who I am confident in saying are THE BEST manufacturer in Taiwan. They're called Premetec, and also make the bars for Bontrager/Trek, Answer, Syncros etc.

    J&B used to be the on-one distributors in the USA, but we parted company a while back.

    We will be investigating further.

  3. #3
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    Further on-one statement:-

    These bars are not the same as the on-one bars. We have an exclusive agreement with Taiwans number one bar manufacturer premetec and all molds and tooling are proprietary to on-one.
    We produce our bars by a series of cold drawing and butting to give the best handlebars on the market in terms of strength and performance.

    We are flattered to be so blatantly copied by J/B distributors, though it must be said we find their choice of brand name highly ironic, we have no idea which factory is producing these bars.

    Customers will have to decide whether to buy a tried and tested on-one bar and pay a premium for a product produced exclusively for us by Taiwans leading, most trusted, and reliable bar manufacturer, the same guys who produce for leading brands such as bontrager, race face, syncros and the industries top brands.

    If customers prefer to buy a very cheap 20 usd retail , dare we say it "blatant knock off bar" then they now have that option and thats no problem, its certainly a very great price, but be sure to understand its not an on-one bar and its not cold drawn and butted by Premetec.

    What do we think - we just dont take risks with handlebars (other than making crazy designs and paying $$$$$'s for tooling). We produce them by the best, they're tried, tested and trusted, and we think that's a premium worth paying.

  4. #4
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    Brant, why can US customers buy your bars so much cheaper than us riders in the UK - even direct from you?

    See topic:

    Best source for On*One Marys yet

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixdale
    Brant, why can US customers buy your bars so much cheaper than us riders in the UK - even direct from you?

    See topic:

    Best source for On*One Marys yet

    Can you give me a link to their site with our product on it? I can't see it there.

  6. #6
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    Nope, I guess like many basic retail websites not all product appears on the actual site. I am sure SpinWheelz has no reason to post this unless it is true though...?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixdale
    Nope, I guess like many basic retail websites not all product appears on the actual site. I am sure SpinWheelz has no reason to post this unless it is true though...?
    I have a link now, thanks.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixdale
    Brant, why can US customers buy your bars so much cheaper than us riders in the UK - even direct from you?
    simply because (as far as I can tell) that is OE (original equipment) product (sold on the basis of it being used for complete bike (tandem) builds and is being sold direct. OE price is always below regular trade price.

  9. #9
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    I don't know how you can see a problem to be honest, when most people class a lot of On-One products as "blatant knock-offs" from other companies products, why can't someone go and do the same to you?

  10. #10
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    Nice to see you joined just to troll Captain Jack.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiiija
    Nice to see you joined just to troll Captain Jack.
    No, not at all, this was simply the first thread I wanted to reply to and I feel what I said had a valid point.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack
    I don't know how you can see a problem to be honest, when most people class a lot of On-One products as "blatant knock-offs" from other companies products, why can't someone go and do the same to you?
    Where in his post did he say nobody could go and do the same?

  13. #13
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    I still don't see the price comparison. Obviously if that shop were selling complete On-One bikes with On-One components that they broke up to sell then the price could be more advantageous. However, are you saying they bulk purchase On-One bars etc to sell on their own complete bike builds? Either way I don't get how they can sell at that price? The bars are exactly the same. Surely they have to buy then from you?

    Captain Jack does have a point though - all the On-One bars are really ideas pinched from WTB/Salsa (drops) or decades old moustache bars etc - just with angle/length changes here and there, the idea is hardly totally original and unique is it?

    After all there are dozens of flat or riser bars from various companies many with virtually the same length/rise/sweep etc...

    If they started calling them 'Mandy', Mongo', Madge' in the typical Taiwanese slight name change thing then I guess you might feel a little peeved though...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackMoth
    Where in his post did he say nobody could go and do the same?
    Sorry but where exactly did I say that he said nobody could? However Brant does imply this when he states that they are cheap knock offs, which is kind of ironic and is all I was getting at.

  15. #15
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    not contiquous with the most recent posts, but consitent with the thread, i'd have to say that i'd still purchase the on-one stuff regardless of price, primarily out of principal. brant has been good to me, the company is small and makes good and very cool stuff; the idea of on-one makes me happy. i'd have to say that ripping off designs is prevalant in all industries and most of the time it results in evolution of product design; however, in the case of origin-8, these guys appear to be putting a different name on an existing product. i think the choice is really up to the consumer, and i've had nothing but good customer service experiences with on-one, so i'll pay my extra $ for their name and support and maybe on-one will be around for a while.

    peace.

  16. #16
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    However Brant does imply this when he states that they are cheap knock offs, which is kind of ironic and is all I was getting at.
    The point is that the On-One bars are trail worthy bars. The knock-offs might not be. Buyer beware.

    I think On-One is right to be a bit miffed- Brant spent boatloads of $ on goofy, trail worthy bars and provided a product that nobody else had on the market. However, succesful innovators are always going to be copied, so you know, try to consider it a compliment, Brant.
    Comparisons are odious.

  17. #17
    zvg
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    Ummmm....

    Is a Midge bar not a Nitto/Specialized/WTB Dirt Drop copy?
    Is a Mingo not a NItto Moustache copy?
    Is a Mary not a Jeff Jones H-bar copy (with a forward bend instead of a cut and welded bar)?

    That being said, I have two bikes with Midge bars and three bikes with Mary bars and love them all.


    Zach

  18. #18
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    I think Brant's comment about "cheap knock-off" was due to the bars not using the same material/treatment/butting as the On-Ones. Bending tube is not complex or expensive....heat treating butted tubes is, thats the difference.

    When I was a green XC rider in the early 90's the only good light weight bars you could get were Answer Hyper and Taper-lights which were BIG . Then a company (who sha remain nameless) released some cheap copies; same dimension, same weight and loads cheaper....a few months later there were lots of handle bars breaking and having a handle bar snap is not fun

    As Keith Bontrager once said "Strong, light, cheap....pick two"

    Alex
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zvg
    Is a Midge bar not a Nitto/Specialized/WTB Dirt Drop copy?


    Zach
    Copy? No, not at all.

    Is it based on what was learned from using the other bars? Of course. Then many changes were made to the shape to make it better.
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  20. #20
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    'many'...?

  21. #21
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    "many"....?

    Width, drop, reach, butting, material, flare and finish.

    Apart from that a complete carbon-copy

    Alex
    "Put any one on one of these singlespeed bikes and they could not help but have fun"
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    Otis Guy talking about klunkers c1976

  22. #22
    zvg
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    Well....

    ....if the Origin-8 bars are made at a different factory, then the "Width, drop, reach, butting, material, flare and finish" will probably all be slightly different, I guess that won't make them copies, so why should On-One care? They aren't being copied. If the basis of being copied is that the "Width, drop, reach, butting, material, flare and finish" is identical to the original product as shiggy and sspunk claim, and these DO meet that criteria, then they are a heck of a deal and everyone should stop buying On-One products at once and switch to this new company.


  23. #23
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    How much are those Origin-8 Bars anyway?

  24. #24
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    Do they have a website? If they come with a reasonable warranty, they might be well worth a look!...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixdale
    I still don't see the price comparison. Obviously if that shop were selling complete On-One bikes with On-One components that they broke up to sell then the price could be more advantageous. However, are you saying they bulk purchase On-One bars etc to sell on their own complete bike builds? Either way I don't get how they can sell at that price? The bars are exactly the same. Surely they have to buy then from you?
    Clearly, they buy them from us - but we sell them at a very low price - cost + a bit, which is what standard OE pricing is. Our RRP is set to be enough for us to sell to a distributor, and them to a dealer, and everyone to make some money (and in that chain, actually the dealer makes the most).

    Of course due to the margins involved, when we sell bars direct to customers we make more money, but what are to do? I can't just sell bars with X%ge markup dependant on the sales mode, as then no dealers would stock stuff ever... it makes no sense.

    I can understand your frustration at seeing someone selling a bar for $39, and of course, with a free global market, it's absolutely your right to go buy from him, but if you have a problem with the bar, it'd have to go back to him to sort out.

    Are you really saying that 35+3.50 carriage is TOO MUCH for a Mary bar?

    Especially, when, really and truthfully, at the end of the day you're taking food out of Kitt's mouth :-)) (he arrived 48hrs ago, so forgive me if I'm a bit flakey and emotional).


  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack
    No, not at all, this was simply the first thread I wanted to reply to and I feel what I said had a valid point.

    Shiggy - what's his IP address out of interest? ;-)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Clearly, they buy them from us - but we sell them at a very low price - cost + a bit, which is what standard OE pricing is. Our RRP is set to be enough for us to sell to a distributor, and them to a dealer, and everyone to make some money (and in that chain, actually the dealer makes the most).

    Of course due to the margins involved, when we sell bars direct to customers we make more money, but what are to do? I can't just sell bars with X%ge markup dependant on the sales mode, as then no dealers would stock stuff ever... it makes no sense.

    I can understand your frustration at seeing someone selling a bar for $39, and of course, with a free global market, it's absolutely your right to go buy from him, but if you have a problem with the bar, it'd have to go back to him to sort out.

    Are you really saying that 35+3.50 carriage is TOO MUCH for a Mary bar?

    Especially, when, really and truthfully, at the end of the day you're taking food out of Kitt's mouth :-)) (he arrived 48hrs ago, so forgive me if I'm a bit flakey and emotional).

    congrats
    looking for 20-21" P team

  28. #28
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    For Real?

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Shiggy - what's his IP address out of interest? ;-)

    Do moderators have access to this information? Do they give it out?

  29. #29
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    Yes. No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor
    Do moderators have access to this information? Do they give it out?

    Any other questions?

  30. #30
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    I am not in the market or have any plans to buy any handlebars right now, but if I were and wanted some of the unique designs the On-One bars feature, I would certainly not be a cheap ass and buy some knock off.

    You get what you pay for in this world.

    And I'd like to keep my teeth and good looks intact.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    Any other questions?
    How do you know, sassypants?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixdale

    Captain Jack does have a point though - all the On-One bars are really ideas pinched from WTB/Salsa (drops) or decades old moustache bars etc - just with angle/length changes here and there, the idea is hardly totally original and unique is it?

    For sake of argument, saying the Salsa Bell Lap is the same as the dirt drop is silly. I have had both and the Salsa is a great bar and does have some flare at the bottom, but nothing like the WTB Dirt Drops or the Specialized BB-1.

    werd
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  33. #33
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    Well, that did it.

    After reading about these brazen knock-offs of Brant's bar, I just had to go and buy a set of Midges (along with a Nitto Dirt Drop stem, of course). Credit where credit is due.

    See, you singlespeeders are such a bad influence.

    ECB

  34. #34
    zvg
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    "Credit where credit's due".....

    So why didn't you buy a nitto bar then, if you wanted to support the originator of the design. We already established that on one stole the design first.


  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by zvg
    So why didn't you buy a nitto bar then, if you wanted to support the originator of the design. We already established that on one stole the design first.

    1. Nitto did not design the WTB dropbar, they produced them
    2. The original WTB bars have been out of production for more than 10 years. You can not buy what is not available. (the new WTB drop is a different design, too)
    3. On-One did not "steal" the WTB/Nitto design or use the original toolings. It is a development of past designs, as are 99.999% of bike components.
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  36. #36
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    What Shiggy said...

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    1. Nitto did not design the WTB dropbar, they produced them
    2. The original WTB bars have been out of production for more than 10 years. You can not buy what is not available. (the new WTB drop is a different design, too)
    3. On-One did not "steal" the WTB/Nitto design or use the original toolings. It is a development of past designs, as are 99.999% of bike components.
    ...plus, I was active on this board when the geometry discussions for the On-One were going around. I can vouch that Brant did indeed make substantial mods to the original WTB geometry. He is being an honest player here.

    And yes, I could get some original WTBs, provided I had the time and means to pay some German collector ~$200 for a set of used bars. I don't.

    ECB

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Especially, when, really and truthfully, at the end of the day you're taking food out of Kitt's mouth :-)) (he arrived 48hrs ago, so forgive me if I'm a bit flakey and emotional).

    Brant, I'm a bit concerned as your baby looks to be covered in brazing flux............

  38. #38
    zvg
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    Re-read

    1) Re-read my other post. I never said wtb made the bars and I never said nitto designed them, that's why I called them Nitto/WTB/Specialized dirt drop bars, joint effort.

    2) You can't deny that the idea for the bars was not originally on-one's. Yes, it is an innovation on an existing, or past product, but then again so are the origin-8 bars. If the origin-8 bars are not different than the on-one and are exact copies, than they are a heck of a deal and people shouldn't dismiss them automatically.

    3) I'm not saying people shouldn't buy On-One bars. As I already said I have 5 bikes that have either midge or mary bars, and I wouldn't trade them for nitto dirt drops or jeff jones bars, respectively.

    4) My whole point was that it is a little hypocritical for on-one to get pissed about a competitor coming into the market offering a product like their own, when they took the ideas/rough designs from other companies. There are a lot of companies with cheaper, "copy cat" companies riding on their coat-tails and I doubt they will even feel it.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by zvg
    4) My whole point was that it is a little hypocritical for on-one to get pissed about a competitor coming into the market offering a product like their own, when they took the ideas/rough designs from other companies. There are a lot of companies with cheaper, "copy cat" companies riding on their coat-tails and I doubt they will even feel it.

    Yes - Mungo is a moustache bar clone of the Nitto bar, but we made that due to poor availability - ironically we now sell the nitto bar in the UK, and it outsells our bar 3:1 :-)

    Yes - Mary bar was inspired by Jones bar, but considering the stuff I've been riding since 1988, and also my time on the moustache bar offroad, it's not as simple as you might think. The Mary bar owes more to the Nitto Moustache than the Jones H bar.

    Yes - Midge bar was inspired by WTB Dirt Drop - but as said - that was out of production and reaching $180 on Ebay when we launched.

    No - my problem is that a former distributor of ours in the USA has copied our whole bar portfolio (as it was at the time they distributed them - Mary/Mungo/Midge).

    But there we go. It could be worse. We could still be dealing with them and their small orders and high demands.

    Ah.

  40. #40
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    Answer Hyperlite 'v' Kalloy Uno - sound familiar?

    Haven't there always been cheaper versions available? I remember years ago wanting a coloured Answer Hyperlite bar but settling for a Kalloy Uno instead, similarly with Grafton/'Tektrobrakes and FSA/CookBros cranks. I guess the novice buyer will be reasonably happy with the cheaper kit but surely sooner or later the discerning rider will upgrade to the decent quality stuff they couldn't afford initially (speaking from experience here ) and c'mon On-One kit is not exactly mega bucks in the first place is it? Would you really spec origin-8 gary bars on your singlespeed?

    and Captain Jack . . . If it ain't broke . . . tweak it

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    ...No - my problem is that a former distributor of ours in the USA has copied our whole bar portfolio (as it was at the time they distributed them - Mary/Mungo/Midge).

    But there we go. It could be worse. We could still be dealing with them and their small orders and high demands.

    Ah.
    Plus the initial concern that the supplier may have been (not the case here) selling bars made with toolings payed for by On-One. It happened with a different component.
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  42. #42
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    By some of the logic expressed here....any modern double triangle bicycle frame is just a design "stolen" from the first one.

    On One has simply evolved existing ideas rather than steal them. That's how bikes and components get better; someone has a good idea that is put into form, and later someone else improves on that idea and makes something a bit different, a bit better, but based on the original idea. It's called improvement, tweaking, evolving, etc. Sheesh.

    And to say that the Mary is Jones copy is just absurd. The Jones is cut and welded ti, with bar-end extensions and no rise. The mary is bent Alu with no "bar ends" and has a rise. If anyting it's an improvement on a regular riser bar.

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  44. #44
    jmw
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    I'll take the on-one bars please.....Got some Midge's on one of mine and looking at trying the Mary's...

    I'll send my $ to the company that stands behind their product....

    copycats are always gonna be cheaper cause they don't have to invest money for developing a product....kinda like drinking Dr. Thunder rather than Dr. Pepper....sure, the can looks similar but it don't taste the same; plus there wouldn't have been Dr. Thunder if there wasn't Dr. Pepper first
    future nature

  45. #45
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    Interesting topic here guys! It hits home with me as I just recently purchased a Mary Bar for my single speed from Bikeman.com I have 1 ride with the bars and have completely fallen for them!! I am glad that I bought the On One bars and not these "Gary" bars and I'm also glad I was able to purchase them through a valued (to me) retailer like Bikeman.com I know I can trust the bars and I know I can trust where I bought them. Sure I paid full price, but like someone else said, it's not like the Mary bars are going to break the bank!! Come on, they are $60, which is the same or cheaper than most quality flat and riser bars.

    I will avoid the "copy" arguement as I think others have defended it better than I could. It appeared to me that the inital worry was that On One's molds and tooling materials were being used to make a product that someone else was selling cheaper. This turned out to not be the case and it appears Brandt isn't that worried about having these "copies" out there as they don't seem to be the same quality.

    and yea really... who wants to have something on their bike that says "Gary" Don't you all know what "Minge" and "Gary" are??? Do you watch Southpark?!!? I DO NOT want a "Gary" on my bike anywhere, that isn't my own seated on my nice RocketV.

  46. #46
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    wow. tough industry.

    congrats on the kid. turn off the computer and go hold him.
    Only boring people get bored.

  47. #47
    MaineMud
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    The ORIGINAL Mary Bar

    I have Mary Bars on 2 of my bikes and love them....


    Oops, wait a minute...

    3 of my bikes, if I include a 1902 wooden wheeled, single speed 28" bike that's hanging up in my attic.

    Seriously, this bike has a dead ringer knock off of the Mary Bar...

    Damn time travel....

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Yes - Mungo is a moustache bar clone of the Nitto bar, but we made that due to poor availability - ironically we now sell the nitto bar in the UK, and it outsells our bar 3:1 :-)

    Yes - Mary bar was inspired by Jones bar, but considering the stuff I've been riding since 1988, and also my time on the moustache bar offroad, it's not as simple as you might think. The Mary bar owes more to the Nitto Moustache than the Jones H bar.

    Yes - Midge bar was inspired by WTB Dirt Drop - but as said - that was out of production and reaching $180 on Ebay when we launched.

    No - my problem is that a former distributor of ours in the USA has copied our whole bar portfolio (as it was at the time they distributed them - Mary/Mungo/Midge).

    But there we go. It could be worse. We could still be dealing with them and their small orders and high demands.

    Ah.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewieez

    and yea really... who wants to have something on their bike that says "Gary" Don't you all know what "Minge" and "Gary" are??? Do you watch Southpark?!!? I DO NOT want a "Gary" on my bike anywhere, that isn't my own seated on my nice RocketV.

    I definitely don't want a gary on my bike and I sure as hell don't want Oprah's minge on there either!

  49. #49
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    Okay

    What's a gary?

  50. #50
    zvg
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    can't read

    Quote Originally Posted by long hazy daze
    And to say that the Mary is Jones copy is just absurd. The Jones is cut and welded ti, with bar-end extensions and no rise. The mary is bent Alu with no "bar ends" and has a rise. If anyting it's an improvement on a regular riser bar.

    If you actually read the other posts you would see that the post from On-one says they DID base the Mary off the Jones bar.

    They didn't make it identical, but the end result (hand position) is pretty much the same, except for having rise/drop which I think is much better than the Jones bar.

  51. #51
    zvg
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    Riiiiiighhhht.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jmw

    copycats are always gonna be cheaper cause they don't have to invest money for developing a product....kinda like drinking Dr. Thunder rather than Dr. Pepper....sure, the can looks similar but it don't taste the same; plus there wouldn't have been Dr. Thunder if there wasn't Dr. Pepper first

    I'm pretty sure the two major reasons Dr. Thunder is sold cheaper than Dr. Pepper is: 1) Who would buy the generic brand if it cost the same as the name brand? They are targeting a certain demographic. 2) They don't have the marketing costs dr. pepper has, thus less overhead, thus they can sell it cheaper.

  52. #52
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by zvg
    I'm pretty sure the two major reasons Dr. Thunder is sold cheaper than Dr. Pepper is: 1) Who would buy the generic brand if it cost the same as the name brand? They are targeting a certain demographic. 2) They don't have the marketing costs dr. pepper has, thus less overhead, thus they can sell it cheaper.
    Still in the end it doesn't taste the same. Just like Kroger brand "Grapenuts" don't taste like real Grape Nuts. They are cheaper though. They even got me to buy the Kroger brand once... I didn't even finish the box they were so bad.

    There will always be generic knock-off brands.... and they will always suck compared to the real things. It just depends how much you care about the thing in question.
    Last edited by Chewieez; 10-23-2006 at 10:38 PM.

  54. #54
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    Origin-8 stuff is ok. Nothig special. Just generic stuff from Taiwan. They are priced well, and are decnent stuff. Nothing great.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by zvg

    If you actually read the other posts you would see that the post from On-one says they DID base the Mary off the Jones bar.

    They didn't make it identical, but the end result (hand position) is pretty much the same, except for having rise/drop which I think is much better than the Jones bar.
    Except the end result is 40 degree angle for Mary Bars and a 45 degree angle for Jones bars. 5 degrees is a big difference! Think of your flat bar with a 6 degree bend... and then make it 11 degrees of bend. Big change. In addition to not needing a new stem and the bar having rise to it.

    So is every "big sweep" bar copying each other b/c they are all big sweep? My riser bar is a rip off of my flat bar, I mean, they both are 660mm wide and have a 6 degree sweep. One has rise and the other doesn't, but the idea is the same. For one I need a higher rise stem, but other than they are identical. I mean they sweep back and I use them to control my bike!! geesh!

  56. #56
    zvg
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    you can't read either?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewieez

    So is every "big sweep" bar copying each other b/c they are all big sweep? My riser bar is a rip off of my flat bar, I mean, they both are 660mm wide and have a 6 degree sweep. One has rise and the other doesn't, but the idea is the same. For one I need a higher rise stem, but other than they are identical. I mean they sweep back and I use them to control my bike!! geesh!

    except you're forgetting, for the second time, On-One said, in this thread, that they DID BASE THE MARY BAR OFF THE JONES BAR.


  57. #57
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    wow zvg, maybe you should re-read your own posts.


    1) Re-read my other post. I never said wtb made the bars and I never said nitto designed them, that's why I called them Nitto/WTB/Specialized dirt drop bars, joint effort.
    ummm....yes you did...
    So why didn't you buy a nitto bar then, if you wanted to support the originator of the design. We already established that on one stole the design first.
    except you're forgetting, for the second time, On-One said, in this thread, that they DID BASE THE MARY BAR OFF THE JONES BAR.
    no one is forgetting that, it's you that's missing the point. the on-one bars are variations (look it up) of other products, but they are not exact copies. your circular argument is annoying, go ride or something.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  58. #58
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    Omg!


    OMG Gary is Oprah's A$$ Hole. I think she copied the design of her anis from Larry King.

  59. #59
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    Just in case there's someone wanting to see the Origins, here's the "official" website.

    http://www.origin-8.com/

    That's it, no opinion one way or the other...unless J&B is sourcing them form the same tooling and manufacturer.

    But that's a different matter.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by zvg
    except you're forgetting, for the second time, On-One said, in this thread, that they DID BASE THE MARY BAR OFF THE JONES BAR.

    I didn't forget anything... or mis-read anything. You are now arguing two different things. You said:

    Quote Originally Posted by zvg
    Is a Mary not a Jeff Jones H-bar copy (with a forward bend instead of a cut and welded bar)?
    Is it a copy or is it "based off of". They are two different things. Riser bars are based off of flat bars. They are also based off of moto bars. Brandt said the Mary was inspired by the Jeff Jones bar, but also by mustache bars and other bars he's ridden. They don't look like Jeff Jones bars to me... and the angles are different, not just 1 degree different... they are very different.

    Are you arguing that they are a copy, or that they are based off of? We are all confused and in the end it doesn't matter. Brandt has already posted that he found out that Origin isn't using his tooling so he doesn't care. If you choose to buy their bar, then he is cool with that. You just will not get the advantages that On One offers. Just like if you choose not to get a Jones bar you don't get all the advantages of a Jones bar. You won't get the Ti or the 45 degree angle or the multiple hand positions.

    ugggh I can't believe I am even replying again to this..... Hopefully it sinks in.

  61. #61
    Exclusively Single
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    can't read, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by zvg

    If you actually read the other posts you would see that the post from On-one says they DID base the Mary off the Jones bar.

    They didn't make it identical, but the end result (hand position) is pretty much the same, except for having rise/drop which I think is much better than the Jones bar.
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    Yes - Mary bar was inspired by Jones bar, but considering the stuff I've been riding since 1988, and also my time on the moustache bar offroad, it's not as simple as you might think. The Mary bar owes more to the Nitto Moustache than the Jones H bar.
    indeed....

    as I said, the Mary is not a Jones "copy".....more like an extrapolation of the combined basis of (at least several) various bars.
    Last edited by long hazy daze; 10-24-2006 at 12:19 AM.

  62. #62
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    Has anyone read the specs?

    I just read the specs off of the site. The "SpaceBar" (clone of the Mary) is made for use with road levers!

    Yep! Kinda takes the wind outta the sails there, doesn't it?

    In fact, all three of the "Urban Bars", as they are being marketed as, are road lever compatible.

    So, since the Mary knock off won't work with mountain levers, all we really have left here is the Gary bar knock off of the Midge that is really a total clone bar.

    By the way, the "Space Bar" has bends that aren't really like the Mary, so I'm thinking that calling it a "rip off" is a bit dubious anyway. Another curious fact is the J&B catalog has this bar listed as a "Mountain Riser". Strange!
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traktor
    OMG Gary is Oprah's A$$ Hole. I think she copied the design of her anis from Larry King.
    Thanks for making this thread enjoyable again!

  64. #64
    jmw
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    Quote Originally Posted by zvg
    I'm pretty sure the two major reasons Dr. Thunder is sold cheaper than Dr. Pepper is: 1) Who would buy the generic brand if it cost the same as the name brand? They are targeting a certain demographic. 2) They don't have the marketing costs dr. pepper has, thus less overhead, thus they can sell it cheaper.
    rrriiiiiggghttt....

    the marketing costs are relative to sales as well - less marketing typically results in less sales in a cluttered marketplace....
    plus, marketing costs wouldn't be considered overhead costs
    and some other stuff too, but I'm tired of typing and lecturing

    you are right about the demographic though.....
    future nature

  65. #65
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    Funny, Midge rip-off "Gary" (why not call the Mary rip-off Barry?) is claimed to weigh more than the original by quite a margin, the "Space" Mary rip-off is lighter than it "inspiration". Less rise in the Space?

  66. #66
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    There's more to come...

    I see the Origin-8 site is due to launch 26er and 29er forks...
    I wonder if they might just have a machined crown and carbon legs?

    But then the "On-One Vs Pace Vs Bontrager" argument has already been done to death on Twentynineinches.com

    ... where Brant explained in detail how the construction and geometry of the On-One 29er forks differs from the others. I think that tells you a lot about a company - If you can email the designer and get a reply explaining exactly what the geometry is, how it's constructed and exactly WHY they went that route.

    Irrespective of what the development process might have been behind the Origin-8 range of bars (and not meaning to single out their products), it's the kind of in-depth product info that Brant and others can cite in order to back up their products that differentiates a properly-designed and tested "evolution" of an existing idea from a cheap knock-off, where the basic measurements or style of a product are simply outsourced to produce a cheap competitor.

    As the man said, a snapped handlebar isn't funny and not worth saving the price of a few beers.

    DM

  67. #67
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    A little off topic here...but what's the diff between the Mary Bar and the FU and FU2 bars from Misfitpsycles? Just wondering if anyone has ridden them and if they're similar to the Mary? I'm planning on getting a Mary Bar for my MC29, but just recently heard about the FU's and wondered if they accomplished the same thing...though I hate the name.

  68. #68
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    Yeah, the forks were at Interbike in the J&B booth, right around the corner from their "Joe's No flats" display.

    Carbon legs, machined crowns and drops...Hmmm....

  69. #69
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    go to gary and go to the link for paris and check out the first definition.... funny
    Only boring people get bored.

  70. #70
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    actually 'Gary' is Cockney-Rhyming slang for 'Gary Glitter'(7o's Brit Glam-rocker/Paedophile - now locked up in a Vietnamese Jail) = 'Shi**er. So it also means a**hole.

  71. #71
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    Is this a "bar brawl"???
    Rip the bring!

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