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  1. #1
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    no lawyer tabs on sussy fork...is it OK?

    I just got a 'new' fork on the ebay, when I opened the box I noticed that the lawyer tabs have been filed down (it wasn't mentioned in the ad). I know alot has been said about this in regards to rigid forks and discs, but any opinions on a sussy fork w/ a disc and no lawyer tabs?

  2. #2
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    They are only there to prevent wheel loss due to incompetent wheel fixing i.e. loose QR or nuts.

    If you can trust yourself to fasten the wheel properly, you don't need lawyer lips.

    They should have mentioned it in the ad. You could complain. It's up to you what you want to do. Just make sure there is no structural damage caused by their removal.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronik
    They are only there to prevent wheel loss due to incompetent wheel fixing i.e. loose QR or nuts.

    If you can trust yourself to fasten the wheel properly, you don't need lawyer lips.

    They should have mentioned it in the ad. You could complain. It's up to you what you want to do. Just make sure there is no structural damage caused by their removal.
    Thanks for the reply. I'm not worried about my abilities to attach a front qr wheel, I'm concerned because I've read about a few guys who have had bad experiences w/ no lawyer tabs and discs and rigid forks....disc brake forces causing the wheel to slip off the fork....never a good thing.

    Structural damage caused by removal...they didn't dig down into the actual dropout, so I figure it's OK.

  4. #4
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    I wouldn't run an 8" disc, thats for sure.

  5. #5
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    I would say that since you bouight them new, you have right to ask for a replacement or refund. They are damaged goods.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiMana
    I wouldn't run an 8" disc, thats for sure.
    It's a 160mm avid mech that I'm using.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronik
    I would say that since you bouight them new, you have right to ask for a replacement or refund. They are damaged goods.
    I guess that's the big question...is it really an issue...if it's an issue I'll see about returning it...if it isn't an issue I'll keep it.

  8. #8
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    Not worth the risk

    If you were using v-brakes, the absence of lawyer tabs might be an acceptable practice. However, disc brake calipers exert forces close to the dropouts which can push the wheel out no matter how tight the quick release is, fortunately the tabs hold the wheel in.

    I had a rigid fork with the lawyer tabs filed off last fall I rode only a few rides. On a fast descent one day my front wheel came off despite the quick release being properly fastened. I feel very lucky to have walked away with a nasty concussion and some broken ribs. After the accident I contacted several frame builders and the fork manufacturer, all who told me, under hard braking and the absence of lawyer tabs, the front wheel WILL come off.

    [Surly 1x1 fork (modified), king hub, salsa skewer, avid mechanical brakes, I am 100% sure the QR was properly tightened]

    Having a front wheel come off on a descent is going to be a bad crash under any circumstances. Even the slight chance, is not a risk I am personally would take.

  9. #9
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    it's ok

    The tabs are there for a reason and it's only to prevent the wheel falling off IF THE QR IS NOT TIGHTENED PROPERLY. Front wheels aren't falling off all over the place as some people are making it seem.

    Yes, disk brakes will place more demand on the QR and it's tightness, but you don't NEED that tabs to hold your wheel in. If that were the case, you're wheel wouldn't be aligned in the dropouts as it should making your handling funny and causing your rotor to rub. When you try to remove a wheel, you have about 5mm of drop before the QR hits the tabs. Please don't tell me that people are constantly riding around with their front wheel in this position. I don't buy it.

    I wouldn't intentionally spend the time to remove them myself, but I wouldn't care if they weren't there either.

    There's my 2 cents. As a mechanic for the last 9 years, I've never seen problems with a front wheel falling off. The only people who have problems are inexperienced people who are removing and installing thier wheels. They can never get the wheel in straight and then think they need the brakes adjusted.
    It's only weird because it's not normal.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by qtip
    It's a 160mm avid mech that I'm using.
    I'm pretty sure that the smaller the rotor, the larger the ejection force is going to be. At a minimum I'd lose any quick release and go bolt on.
    "The mouth of justice contemplates wisdom."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mckeand13
    The tabs are there for a reason and it's only to prevent the wheel falling off IF THE QR IS NOT TIGHTENED PROPERLY. Front wheels aren't falling off all over the place as some people are making it seem.

    Yes, disk brakes will place more demand on the QR and it's tightness, but you don't NEED that tabs to hold your wheel in. If that were the case, you're wheel wouldn't be aligned in the dropouts as it should making your handling funny and causing your rotor to rub. When you try to remove a wheel, you have about 5mm of drop before the QR hits the tabs. Please don't tell me that people are constantly riding around with their front wheel in this position. I don't buy it.

    I wouldn't intentionally spend the time to remove them myself, but I wouldn't care if they weren't there either.

    There's my 2 cents. As a mechanic for the last 9 years, I've never seen problems with a front wheel falling off. The only people who have problems are inexperienced people who are removing and installing thier wheels. They can never get the wheel in straight and then think they need the brakes adjusted.
    I have seen a wheel pull out. The rider knows how to secure the QR and there was little warning before it came out.


    I have also had a wheel move in the dropout. Switched to Shimano skewers and no issues since.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    I have seen a wheel pull out. The rider knows how to secure the QR and there was little warning before it came out.


    I have also had a wheel move in the dropout. Switched to Shimano skewers and no issues since.
    I've had a wheel pull out. The wheel was secured tightly at the start of the ride. It wasn't fun and my shoulder still has a strange hump on it 2 years later.

    My vote is Rim brake only for forks without tabs.

  13. #13
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    i wouldn't do it. see this page
    People who really know what happened aren't talking. And the people who don't have a clue, you can't shut them up.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Switched to Shimano skewers and no issues since.
    If there's one thing Shimano does right it's skewers. My forks are all 20mm now, but ifin I had a QR fork, discs or not it'd have XT skewers in it.

    A while back I had a Z1 with standard dropouts and a 6" Avid mech, lawyer tabs removed and had zero problems. It had Shimano skewers from day one.

  15. #15
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    I wouldn't.

    If it was me, and if the seller hadn't discosed that he/she had filed off the tabs, I'd ask for my money back. To me, it's not worth the risk. I'm sure Brandon tightened his QR properly on that fateful day, and my bet is that as an SSer he already knows to use Shimano QRs. Maybe it doesn't happen to that many people, but in my view the (potentially fatal) consequences are not worth it.

    Also, if you use a fork mount roof rack on your car (as I do), you know that if you frequently drive on rough roads to get to the trailhead, and you do not have lawyer tabs, sooner or later your bike probably WILL fall off the car. When this happens, the possible scenarios are: (1) bike lands on roof (or in truck bed, if that's what you have), (2) you remembered to clamp the rear wheel down, so the bike swings down and gouges the side of your vehicle, or (3) you forgot to clamp down the rear wheel, so the bike goes flying and either (a) lands in the road or the ditch, (b) gets run over by a truck, or (c) goes through somebody's windshield. Not one of these scenarios is desirable. I have had scenarios (1) and (2) happen, though fortunately not (3). Lawyer tabs and a properly adjusted roof mount solve the problem though.
    Last edited by GlowBoy; 05-31-2005 at 02:24 PM.
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