New Niner Bio-Centric EBB info- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 2melow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,755

    New Niner Bio-Centric EBB info

    Hi Guys,

    Our new Bio-Centric system is almost ready, we are taking pre-orders if you have a Niner frame and have been waiting for one. Ano colors on this first round include black, silver, red, and blue. We are creating a list of non-Niner frames this new system will work with, just FYI. Please check this out for more info on our system:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...10#post5161710

    Thanks,

    Brett
    Niner Bikes
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    416
    I am wondering how a square taper BB will fit. Because of the way a square taper is fitted torqueing down the bio centric will probably crush the thread cups of a square taper. The way I look at it is that it is only suitable for external bearings. Am I right in that assertion?

    Also because of that construction it is not possible to rotate the EBB without loosening the square taper BB.
    Last edited by DiDaDunlop; 12-08-2008 at 04:17 AM.

  3. #3
    i don't give a shift
    Reputation: collideous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    863
    Does it maintain the 68mm BB width or does it widen it to 73mm?

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Pmac83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    Hi Guys,

    Our new Bio-Centric system is almost ready, we are taking pre-orders if you have a Niner frame and have been waiting for one. Ano colors on this first round include black, silver, red, and blue. We are creating a list of non-Niner frames this new system will work with, just FYI. Please check this out for more info on our system:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...10#post5161710

    Thanks,

    Brett
    Niner Bikes

    Cool system. I want one. When will the list be available?

    Thanks

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    416
    Pff How stupid am I. It will work with square taper. I forgot that one side is not permanently attached to the BB. That piece will just loosen and tighten again when the EBB bolt is fastenend. Probably not ideal creaking wise but it'll work.

  6. #6
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 2melow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,755
    Yes, square taper will work no problem, 73mm BB is required.

    I'd also like to add that the "windows" are now on the
    backside on production versions so there won't be a dirt/mud collection spot.

    Brett
    Niner Bikes
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,902
    A square taper cartridge BB puts a pretty large tension load on the BB shell or insert. It will try to push the 2 pieces of the Bio-Centric apart, which is held together by one M6 bolt. I'd like to know if they tested it on square tapers BBs. Because if it works, then I'd be interested in trying it...
    Last edited by itsdoable; 12-08-2008 at 03:58 PM.

  8. #8
    wawe member
    Reputation: Black Bart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    892
    Hey Guys,

    Here are a couple of answers for you. I've been riding on versions of this EBB for over a year and a half and have tried a few different BB types, including external, cartridge (square and Octo-link) and the White Industries square taper.

    The White Industries BB requires a bit of back and forth between the BB and EBB bolt to get the BB at proper preload, but once set the EBB can be loosened, reset and tightened into place without readjusting the BB. None of the BB types I tried required any futzing to adjust the EBB, all clamping force comes from the single EBB bolt.

    The Bio-Centric increases the 68mm BB width to 73mm.

    Thanks,

    Ryan

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: njbiker66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    445
    Do most Ebb's bump the bottom bracket to a 73mm or is it just yours?

  10. #10
    wawe member
    Reputation: Black Bart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    892
    Quote Originally Posted by njbiker66
    Do most Ebb's bump the bottom bracket to a 73mm or is it just yours?
    No, our new EBB design is different than the rest. The Bio-Centric EBB has a 2.5mm flange on each side that clamps the outer edge of the BB shell instead of using set screws, pinch bolts or an expanding EBB design. When you add the 2 2.5mm flanges to the outside of our 68mm BB shell, you end up with a 73mm BB width.

    For riders using the current external BB cup designs, all that is needed to convert from 68 to 73mm BB is to remove one 2.5mm spacer from each cup.

    Thanks,

    Ryan

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,971
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    No, our new EBB design is different than the rest. The Bio-Centric EBB has a 2.5mm flange on each side that clamps the outer edge of the BB shell instead of using set screws, pinch bolts or an expanding EBB design. When you add the 2 2.5mm flanges to the outside of our 68mm BB shell, you end up with a 73mm BB width.

    Thanks,

    Ryan
    What is the reason behind that? Couldn't you have designed it with a 2.5mm pocket that the BB cups sit in? That way nobody would have to mess with there BB.

    Mark

  12. #12
    34N 118W
    Reputation: Hollywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,246
    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    Ano colors on this first round include black, silver, red, and blue.
    I'm holding out for purple.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ze_Zaskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    968
    The system sounds clever and simple, I like it. Any chance that it will work with a Singular Swift?

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,170
    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar
    The system sounds clever and simple, I like it. Any chance that it will work with a Singular Swift?
    I was thinking the same.

    You having problems with the Phil Wood EBB or just looking at something lighter? Mine has never slipped.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: elgordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    465

    a little skeptical

    first, I never had a problem with the previous version nor would anyone else if they used a torque wrench and some antiseize

    second, it seems like the new EBB (Bio whatever) is designed to work with external BB cups with no consideration for cartridge style.

    So if you run a cartridge style BB (Phil for example) you will need to loosen.remove the cartridge loosen the EBB reposition tighten and by Niners own admission (see post above) fiddle with tightening the EBB and BB until everything is good = PITA


    Also what is to keep moron's from stripping out the single M6 bolt and the aluminum threads on the EEB cup?

    This thing is a solution to a problem that never existed. Dont like it and probably will deter me from getting another niner SS if I cant run another EBB like a Bushnell

    I like the company and own two of their bikes but I must say this thing makes no sense.

  16. #16
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,306
    Quote Originally Posted by elgordo
    first, I never had a problem with the previous version nor would anyone else if they used a torque wrench and some antiseize
    i used a torque wrench and anti-seize and i can slip the bb in the shell and have to readjust it after just about every ride. i even replaced the ti set screws with grade-8 steel ones to no avail. tried a little less and a little more torque. still slips. tried sanding the black ano off the edges of the ebb. still slips. sanded the inside of the bb shell. still slips.

    and because the shell is internally butted, the bushnell and the carver anti-squeak that i purchased slipped as well.

    love the bike, but can't get the ebb to quit slipping so i rarely ride it and certainly can't ride it fixed as i would like. can't wait for the salsa selma to come out!

    if they really wanted to solve the problem all they would have to do is just quit butting the bb shell so wedge type ebb's could really grab it and hold. the few grams the butting shaves just aren't worth the deficit.

    so yes, they are addressing a very common problem and i'll try this solution, though i'm apprehensive about the results.

    as far as it being designed to work with outboard cups, that's what the majority of riders seem to use and ya can't please everyone.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: elgordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    465
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod
    i used a torque wrench and anti-seize and i can slip the bb in the shell and have to readjust it after just about every ride. i even replaced the ti set screws with grade-8 steel ones to no avail. tried a little less and a little more torque. still slips. tried sanding the black ano off the edges of the ebb. still slips. sanded the inside of the bb shell. still slips.

    and because the shell is internally butted, the bushnell and the carver anti-squeak that i purchased slipped as well.

    love the bike, but can't get the ebb to quit slipping so i rarely ride it and certainly can't ride it fixed as i would like. can't wait for the salsa selma to come out!

    if they really wanted to solve the problem all they would have to do is just quit butting the bb shell so wedge type ebb's could really grab it and hold. the few grams the butting shaves just aren't worth the deficit.

    so yes, they are addressing a very common problem and i'll try this solution, though i'm apprehensive about the results.

    as far as it being designed to work with outboard cups, that's what the majority of riders seem to use and ya can't please everyone.

    Monogod,

    Good point about the Butted Shell. I did have the EBB slip until I stopped greasing the EBB and shell. I know this sounds crazy but after I stopped greasing the shell (advised by George at Bike 29) the slipping and creaking went away.

    The grease not only decreases the friction force between EBB and shell it attracts debris that causes the creaking. And for those reasons I said good bye grease and I have not had a problem since...

    Sad to hear the Bushnells dont work in Niner's either. That means good buy Sir9 ....

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: marty_hd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by elgordo

    So if you run a cartridge style BB (Phil for example) you will need to loosen.remove the cartridge loosen the EBB reposition tighten and by Niners own admission (see post above) fiddle with tightening the EBB and BB until everything is good = PITA
    Not sure I understand... sounds like torquing the cartridge BB pushes the EBB shells apart so you have to tighten down the EBB bolt to adjust. May have to go through a few iterations to set it up.
    Once you have that done you don't need to remove the BB according to Niner Ryan:
    tried a few different BB types, including external, cartridge (square and Octo-link) and the White Industries square taper.

    The White Industries BB requires a bit of back and forth between the BB and EBB bolt to get the BB at proper preload, but once set the EBB can be loosened, reset and tightened into place without readjusting the BB.
    How do you figure you have to loosen/remove a cartridge BB every time you adjust the EBB?

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: elgordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    465
    Quote Originally Posted by marty_hd
    Not sure I understand... sounds like torquing the cartridge BB pushes the EBB shells apart so you have to tighten down the EBB bolt to adjust. May have to go through a few iterations to set it up.
    Once you have that done you don't need to remove the BB according to Niner Ryan:


    How do you figure you have to loosen/remove a cartridge BB every time you adjust the EBB?
    Well maybe I'm not understanding the mechanism correctly. However no one can argue with the previous niner EBB the BB installation was a set it and forget it event.

    With a Phil Wood SS BB, which I am using, the BB "cups" (not external) compress the BB spindle placing the EBB in tension which in turn compresses the BB shell. Just seems to me that you would have to decompress the BB spindle to be able to rotate the EBB in the BB shell.

    I could be wrong but it just seem like a lot of fiddling around to loose 20 grams (one less 90 minute a night would do better than that ; ))

    Also most (make it all) EBB are designed to work by uniformly applying pressure around the inner surface of the BB Shell (large area = low stress). The new Niner EBB compresses the BB shell edges (small area = high stress).

    Not sure I'm so hot on the idea to save a few grams. I know others have reported slipping but it has never really been an issue for me once I stopped greasing the ebb and purchased a torque wrench : )


    Edit:
    Ok nevermind. I see how it will work. After setting the BB and EBB you only need to loosen the M6 EBB bolt which decompresses your BB and then rotate and tighten M6 EBB bolt thus re-compressing your BB.
    Last edited by elgordo; 12-10-2008 at 01:56 PM.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ze_Zaskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    968
    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    I was thinking the same.

    You having problems with the Phil Wood EBB or just looking at something lighter? Mine has never slipped.
    Nothing wrong with the Phil Wood, just curious about this new concept

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,170
    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar
    Nothing wrong with the Phil Wood, just curious about this new concept
    Me too

    I think this new system looks promising. For some reason it seems to have attracted a few detractors without it having been put to the test by them.

    The clamping system has the advantage that it does not distort the bottom bracket lug - I suspect most slippage/creaking is due to that becoming a bit egg shaped from the clamping pressures on conventional EBBs. The more the screws are tightened excessively the more ovoid the EBB lug gets.

    About the only potential (very minor) snag is the inability to slide the EBB slightly sideways to perfect a chainline.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: z rocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    376
    Sounds awesome. After sqeeking and de-squeaking my ebbs on my one 9. Kind of moot right now since i just dropped off my dear sweet zilla green at the lbs w/ukly cracked chainstay. Will the new design prvent cracking?

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    492
    Wouldn't you have to face the outside of the bb shell for this to work effectively with an external bearing bottom bracket?
    Yes - I do own Singular Cycles

  24. #24
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,938

    Sounds good.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    Hi Guys,

    Our new Bio-Centric system is almost ready, we are taking pre-orders if you have a Niner frame and have been waiting for one. Ano colors on this first round include black, silver, red, and blue. We are creating a list of non-Niner frames this new system will work with, just FYI. Please check this out for more info on our system:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...10#post5161710

    Thanks,

    Brett
    Niner Bikes
    For years I wanted to get a One 9 but couldn't get over the set screw EBB.


    Two questions...

    So will it work with non-external BB setups?

    Is the One 9 still available in Raw? (For keeping it single-speed-simple it would be the logical choice.)

  25. #25
    'Calm Down'
    Reputation: GrumpyOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    849
    Sure seems like it. If the outside faces of the shell aren't clean and parallel, you'd have the same issues as with a standard BB shell. (Tight spots, worn bearings, etc.) From a manufacturing stand point, this system will add cost compared to a "traditional" EBB because of the extra machining/tolerance.

    jw


    Quote Originally Posted by Singular
    Wouldn't you have to face the outside of the bb shell for this to work effectively with an external bearing bottom bracket?
    -

    "And single-speeding 29ers are mountain biking's equivalent of Scientologists..." - Captain Dondo

  26. #26
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,306
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOne
    From a manufacturing stand point, this system will add cost compared to a "traditional" EBB because of the extra machining/tolerance.

    jw
    no more than facing any other bb shell on any other bike would.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  27. #27
    'Calm Down'
    Reputation: GrumpyOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    849
    Current EBB shells don't require facing and special tooling would be needed (i.e. Not off the shelf). So yes, it would add cost compared to the current internal style EBBs.

    jw


    Quote Originally Posted by monogod
    no more than facing any other bb shell on any other bike would.
    -

    "And single-speeding 29ers are mountain biking's equivalent of Scientologists..." - Captain Dondo

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,902
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOne
    Current EBB shells don't require facing and special tooling would be needed (i.e. Not off the shelf)
    Current eBB shells should be reamed after welding, but many are not. Distortions in the shell after welding contribute heavily to the creakiness of some inserts. Post weld facing is a much simpler process.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ze_Zaskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    968
    so...any news on the compatible frames list?

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metrotuned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,814
    elgordo, good point about the grease avoiding in the EBB shell. Notice that Thomson stems state to NOT grease their bolt heads, just the threads. This could be related to your knowledge and 3rd party knowledge that was followed.
    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    7,170
    Quote Originally Posted by illnacord
    elgordo, good point about the grease avoiding in the EBB shell...
    I disagree. I grease every mating surface. My EBB doesn't creak, squeak or move. It's a Phil Wood in a Singular Swift. Possibly this is because the frame is well built and has a proper round shell.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  32. #32
    2006 sswc RockStar
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    928
    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar
    so...any news on the compatible frames list?
    anything yet? i have a few bikes with EBB's a couple of carvers and a GF rig.......

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.