New KM....greatest deal in the land?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New KM....greatest deal in the land?

    Is there any bike for sale right now that is even half the barging as the new karate monkey single speed?

    maybe I am out of the loop but for 1200 you get a lot of bike......sorry stupid thread but I was just looking at used bikes and they were all priced around 1100(including 2015 karate monkeys) why would someone ever consider buying a 4 year old spot rocker for the same price as a brand new bike with a good warranty plus all of the modern standards.

    I am just super butt hurt because a year ago I spent 600 on a shitty soma juice frame when today I could spend that same 600 and get an amazing frame from a reputable company. I'm trying to think of other bikes options similar quality and bikes like Niner SIR,spot rocker, kona explosif are all in the 1500-2000 range. then the next step down with Nashbar/state bikes are 10lb frames with no character and trashy components.

    Is there any bike on the market today that is even close to as good of a deal as the 2017 karate monkey?

  2. #2
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singletrackd View Post
    Is there any bike for sale right now that is even half the barging as the new karate monkey single speed?

    maybe I am out of the loop but for 1200 you get a lot of bike......sorry stupid thread but I was just looking at used bikes and they were all priced around 1100(including 2015 karate monkeys) why would someone ever consider buying a 4 year old spot rocker for the same price as a brand new bike with a good warranty plus all of the modern standards.

    I am just super butt hurt because a year ago I spent 600 on a shitty soma juice frame when today I could spend that same 600 and get an amazing frame from a reputable company. I'm trying to think of other bikes options similar quality and bikes like Niner SIR,spot rocker, kona explosif are all in the 1500-2000 range. then the next step down with Nashbar/state bikes are 10lb frames with no character and trashy components.

    Is there any bike on the market today that is even close to as good of a deal as the 2017 karate monkey?
    Not to be that guy but a surly is a a cheap chinese made qbp OVERpriced frame. Its in the eye of the beholder. Its a 6lb piece of chinese metal. What should that cost? Ninety five percent chance your soma and the surly made in same chinese factory on the same line.

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  3. #3
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    Pretty sure Surly frames are made in Taiwan.

    A frames cost is not just a factor of the "metal" but more of the cost of the people who decided how that "metal" will be put together.

    What should that cost?


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  4. #4
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Pretty sure Surly frames are made in Taiwan.

    A frames cost is not just a factor of the "metal" but more of the cost of the people who decided how that "metal" will be put together.

    What should that cost?


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    Thats why a custom is 2grand and a surly 600. Theres no thinking involved. Its standard basic things that any factory in asia can make. Hardly any engineering breakthroughs on a surly. Theyre cool, they have some neat things. They are still a jig made, low cost, low quality asian built frame. Not that the Niner or Spot arent.

    The cost of the karate monkey indicates the engineering r and costs. Next to nothing. Thats why its 600 for 300 in metal shipped asia and painted and labeled.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Thats why a custom is 2grand and a surly 600. Theres no thinking involved. Its standard basic things that any factory in asia can make. Hardly any engineering breakthroughs on a surly. Theyre cool, they have some neat things. They are still a jig made, low cost, low quality asian built frame. Not that the Niner or Spot arent.

    The cost of the karate monkey indicates the engineering r and costs. Next to nothing. Thats why its 600 for 300 in metal shipped asia and painted and labeled.

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    That is HUGELY oversimplified and only partially true.

    Almost all frames these days are made in Taiwan, including most high end full suspension and carbon frames. That tells you absolutely nothing about the frame. There are huge factories that have super cheap catalog frames and there are small boutique manufacturers that make frames one at a time, and there's everything in between. Surly does not just pick a frame out of a catalog and pick a color. They do all their own design and then go the appropriate fabricator to have the frames made. There are R&D and other costs involved in that. Companies like Bikes Direct just pick a frame out of a catalog. Surly's are low cost, yes, but I would not consider them low quality. Yes, the tubeset is nothing special, but they are designed to be robust and durable, not a weightweenie XC race bike.

    No engineering breakthroughs on a Surly? Do you even know what they make? They pioneered lots of stuff you take for granted, and put the money up to make it happen.

  6. #6
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    First, I love Surly. I have a 1x1, and I am considering a KM for my next bike purchase.

    But no, I don't think their frame or complete bikes are that great of a deal. Not horrible, but definitely not great.

    The Kona Unit has a very similar spec to it and is $999.

    The Pulsar from State is a similar build and is $650, complete! They have an option for some upgrades and it still comes out to $1100. Same 4130 tubing as a Surly.

    And I know this is the singlespeed forum, but the geared version of the KM is also not that great of a deal when you compare it to other offerings from Kona, Salsa, and more.

    I do think Surly has become increasingly popular over the last 5 or so years, and their prices are reflecting that. The bikes themselves have changed very little. I am kind of surprised they're not offering any other metal than 4130. I would love if they offered something in TrueTemper, Reynolds 725 or 853, and see if they could hit a good price. But I suppose other companies are kind of doing that. Advocate's Hayduke frames are only $100 more than a KM, and I suppose when you look at something like 853 most people are getting a SIR Nine or something like that.

    I'm sure I'm missing others, but I kind of feel the Surly complete KM options should each be about $200 less than they are.

  7. #7
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    Thank you., Well put. Even Jones frames ssame factory as Surly. Ill take cheap steel any day and ride the snot out of it. In fact Jeff stated that they can do things with steel in the Tawian factories that he could not do in his shop.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by akindofbrian View Post
    I'm sure I'm missing others,
    the Marin Pine Mountain fits nicely into that list. $989, 4130, B+, gears.

    http://www.marinbikes.com/us/bikes/d...-pine-mountain
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by akindofbrian View Post
    Advocate's Hayduke frames are only $100 more than a KM,
    Are you comparing an Advocate frame only to a Surly frameset? If you factor in a fork the price difference is quite a bit more.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Are you comparing an Advocate frame only to a Surly frameset? If you factor in a fork the price difference is quite a bit more.


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    Not quite, no. That was the part of my post where I wished Surly was considering making some bikes with higher quality tubing. And I admit I did not quite so clearly write out what I thought that might cost from Surly. I just jumped to what it costs from other companies.

    But, I also do think the frame-only Advocate is a fair comparison to a KM. At $100 more, but 725 tubing, it is pretty close IMHO. One can get a rigid fork like that found on the KM for quite cheap.

  11. #11
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    So Soma is crappy and not a reputable company? Lots of Soma riders would disagree with that on this board. What exactly makes it crappy?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPIguy View Post
    So Soma is crappy and not a reputable company? Lots of Soma riders would disagree with that on this board. What exactly makes it crappy?
    agreed, I've never heard anyone complain about Soma frame quality or ride quality, period.

    the only complaint i've heard about the Juice is the long chainstays, but you should know that going in. it's not a deal breaker depending on your riding style and where you ride. plus it's not like they hide that info somehow, it clearly printed in geo.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    agreed, I've never heard anyone complain about Soma frame quality or ride quality, period.

    the only complaint i've heard about the Juice is the long chainstays, but you should know that going in. it's not a deal breaker depending on your riding style and where you ride. plus it's not like they hide that info somehow, it clearly printed in geo.
    Right. This is pretty much where I am with mine. I feel like the $500 I paid for my Juice was money well spent. is the OP the guy whose Juice broke? Were you really unable to contact Soma? I don't remember what came of that, I just remember a post where someone broke a Juice and couldn't contact Soma.

    Anyhow, I've got a different bike that I've broken the frame on twice. It's been warrantied both times, and while it's been frustrating just because it breaks, I still don't think it's a piece of junk because I like the way it rides. My Soma keeps the other frame's breaking from being a complete deal breaker, because everything about my SS is reliable, so I know I still have a bike to ride.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Not to be that guy but a surly is a a cheap chinese made qbp OVERpriced frame. Its in the eye of the beholder. Its a 6lb piece of chinese metal. What should that cost? Ninety five percent chance your soma and the surly made in same chinese factory on the same line.
    come on now. you can have an opinion, but alternative facts are not welcome. like most decent frames, Surly stuff is made in Taiwan from custom chromoly tubelesets that are well thought-out. it might not be fancy-pants name-brand tubing hand-welded by a beareded, IPA-sipping, artiste in a dimly-lit barn full of dogs, but they are still well-made, albiet mass-produced. there are frames made from "cheap chinese steel" and, while Surly stuff has a substantial markup on it, it's not junk. there are also steel frames of similar quality in the same factories as Surly that cost a lot more. whether they are a good value is still up to you.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    come on now. you can have an opinion, but alternative facts are not welcome. like most decent frames, Surly stuff is made in Taiwan from custom chromoly tubelesets that are well thought-out. it might not be fancy-pants name-brand tubing hand-welded by a beareded, IPA-sipping, artiste in a dimly-lit barn full of dogs, but they are still well-made, albiet mass-produced. there are frames made from "cheap chinese steel" and, while Surly stuff has a substantial markup on it, it's not junk. there are also steel frames of similar quality in the same factories as Surly that cost a lot more. whether they are a good value is still up to you.
    ^ yup
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    the Marin Pine Mountain fits nicely into that list. $989, 4130, B+, gears.

    http://www.marinbikes.com/us/bikes/d...-pine-mountain
    The Marin is a nice bike for sure, but unfortunately not singlespeedable without a clunky tensioner.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    fancy-pants name-brand tubing hand-welded by a beareded, IPA-sipping, artiste in a dimly-lit barn full of dogs
    If ever I've seen a sig worthy line on MTBR, that's it. LOL

  18. #18
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    The real thing is that true temper is no longer producing tubing for bikes soon so better get use to a "custom asian" or pay out the ass.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    The Marin is a nice bike for sure, but unfortunately not singlespeedable without a clunky tensioner.
    haha, i forgot where i was posting. autopilot took over, i even wrote how it has gears
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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