Need some SSers opinions- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Need some SSers opinions

    I am relatively new to SS and need some opinions on a SS setup.

    I have a friend that is a die hard SSer and he has convinced me to go ss on my XC bike. I was hesitant for so long because after riding SS on my urban assault bike I didn't like the idea of having only one speed to ride to the local trails and then ride XC with the same gearing. So after talking with my hardcore SS friend, we came to a compromise and I think I can probably be happy.

    I am going to use two rings in front and a White Industries Dos Eno freewheel in back. Where I need help is choosing the proper gears front and back.

    My bike has horizontal dropouts, disc brake, and I don't want to use a chain tensioner. I already have a SS wheel that I'm going to use, with a freewheel that needs to be replaced. I was told by my friend that I would need to keep the front and back in proportion to each other so the chain can stay tight without having to move it farther back in the dropouts. I can't move the wheel to much once I set the brake caliper position.

    So... I was thinking of using something like 30T&32T ring and the 19/17T freewheel to keep them in relative proportions. The Dos Eno also comes in a 18/16T.

    I would appreciate any input. I also live in AZ, so I ride a mix of terrains.

    Thanks,
    -Birdman
    Last edited by 79Birdman; 06-05-2010 at 06:30 PM.

  2. #2
    openwound
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    Either bite the bullet and commit to a single or do a 1x9 and run a derailleur. I don't see how you're going to manage the two ring/double cog thing, it just seems like such a p.i.t.a.

    I don't know squat about riding urban assault, but once you make the switch to single for trail riding, you'll get it and you'll dig it.

  3. #3
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    I think it will actually be relatively pain free. I can use the higher speed cog/freewheel combo for riding to the trails and on some faster paths; and the lower ratio for technical or more hilly trails. I think it would be easy to just loosen the QR, move the wheel in, move the chain to the other cog/freewheel combo, move the wheel back to tension the chain and keep riding. Shouldn't take more than 60 sec.

    One of my reasons for going ss is to get away from the derailleur problems. That's why I don't want to use a chain tensioner.

    IDK......

  4. #4
    openwound
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    It just seems like you're going to have quite a difference in chain length from one chainring/cog to the next. Have you actually done the math and compared the chain length difference? If it's got to move too much you're then going to have to deal with brake adjusts on the road, too...ugh.

    I've never done it but it seems like running a QR on horizontal dropouts may not hold too well. Have you any experience with that? I'll be interested to see if others on the board successfully run a QR on horizontals. I run bolted hubs. They're their own pain, in that you have to haul the wrenches. So there's that.

    I'm really comin' off like a nay-sayer here...sorry about that. It would be an interesting thing to see if you pull it off, but one of the things that I really like about riding ss is just the simplicity thing. SS bikes really have three gears after all: sitting, standing, and walking.

    Good luck. Post some pics.

  5. #5
    Retro Grouch
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    What you are considering is called a dinglespeed. The setup works very well, especially when a higher gear is needed (like road riding to a trailhead) and as you suspected, as long as you use gearing with a 2 tooth difference, high low and low high, your chain length will be the same and your disc brake caliper will stay in the same place. You haven't said what gear you experimented with, so it's difficult to say what gearing you should use, but you should base your gearing choice on your hill climbing. I doubt you will use 30:32 chainrings, as a 30T pretty much won't fit any standard crank. I would go with the larger 17/19 freewheel and plan a minimum 34:36 and more likely a 32:34 until you get your singlespeed legs. As I said before, the dinglespeed path is well worn and the gear differences are significant to make it worth while. Again your chain length will be the same for both gearings and your disc will stay in the same place.
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  6. #6
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    (politely) I think you need to figure out wtf you want to do. You start with a proposal for a 2x1, then jump to a dinglespeed. Which is it? (again, politely)

    I don't agree with your reasoning for not wanting to run a tensioner because of problems with derailleurs. I can't comment any further than that because I think it's a pathetic excuse to switch to ss in the first place, but that's just me.

    I run a 3x1. Some may call it a tringlespeed. There's been a few threads in the past about it ..... http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...t=mountainboat and http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=252176

    I don't know if you want to consider that or not since you have to run a tensioner, ideally a Paul Melvin or something similar ..... which does nothing except keep the chain under tension ..... a considerably easier job that a full-on derailleur.

    Can't blame a guy for tryin', can ya?!?!?!??!


    Otherwise, from what i've read so far it sounds like you're set on a dinglespeed. Follow brad's comments above. Good info to get sorted with.
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  7. #7
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    I did a dinglespeed for a while with 32/36 and 20/16. Worked great, was fairly quick to switch, and only required a slight adjustment in wheel position with the 4 tooth difference I was using.

    QR can work well on horizontal dropouts too. I only stopped using a QR last week after a year and half. I highly recommend using a chain tug on the drive side to prevent slippage. Shimano QRs also work better than other brands, although I used a cheap Novatec skewer for a while without problems.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    (politely) I think you need to figure out wtf you want to do. You start with a proposal for a 2x1, then jump to a dinglespeed. Which is it? (again, politely)
    .
    I don't think he ever mentioned 2x1. The freewheel he mentions (bottom of this page) are two cogs on one freewheel body

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild
    It just seems like you're going to have quite a difference in chain length from one chainring/cog to the next. Have you actually done the math and compared the chain length difference? If it's got to move too much you're then going to have to deal with brake adjusts on the road, too...ugh.

    I've never done it but it seems like running a QR on horizontal dropouts may not hold too well. Have you any experience with that? I'll be interested to see if others on the board successfully run a QR on horizontals. I run bolted hubs. They're their own pain, in that you have to haul the wrenches. So there's that.

    I'm really comin' off like a nay-sayer here...sorry about that. It would be an interesting thing to see if you pull it off, but one of the things that I really like about riding ss is just the simplicity thing. SS bikes really have three gears after all: sitting, standing, and walking.

    Good luck. Post some pics.
    I recently bought a Jabberwocky, and have been using a QR on the horizontal track fork. I read up a bit on sheldonbrown.com, the former SS guru, and he suggested a XT shimano internal skewer for a track fork. A lot of people call track ends "horizontal dropouts", but they are not the same thing. A track end does not hook at the end, so it isn't a "dropout". Not a flame, just some clarification for the masses!!

  10. #10
    Monkey Junkie
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    I definitely appreciate the dinglespeed idea. My only issue with my 29er being SS is that I have to drive to the trails. The low gearing wouldn't be safe for riding in traffic on the way there and it would take me forever. Dingle could potentially cut out the need for a tow rig.

  11. #11
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    Oh I almost forgot the original thread!! You should just skip the alternate gearing and man-up to a true SS, otherwise you will just confuse yourself!! When you leave no choice the decision is already made!! Push hard on the hills, and coast the flats. Remember, momentum is your friend, don't use the brake unless it is absolutely necessary.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vindiggitydog
    Oh I almost forgot the original thread!! You should just skip the alternate gearing and man-up to a true SS, otherwise you will just confuse yourself!! When you leave no choice the decision is already made!! Push hard on the hills, and coast the flats. Remember, momentum is your friend, don't use the brake unless it is absolutely necessary.
    the point of a dinglespeed is usually to have an even harder gear. Nothing un-manly about that.

    You would generally only switch at the trail head or between rides as most dinglespeed setups cannot be shifted on the fly. A dinglespeed is an SS, just one that carries your spare ring and cog more conveniently

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycleAddict
    I definitely appreciate the dinglespeed idea. My only issue with my 29er being SS is that I have to drive to the trails. The low gearing wouldn't be safe for riding in traffic on the way there and it would take me forever. Dingle could potentially cut out the need for a tow rig.
    How far are you from the TH?? I find that the high cadence I pull on the road to the trail help with the warm-up. All the trails around here (Utah) are steep from the get-go, so it helps to have some pedal time.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    the point of a dinglespeed is usually to have an even harder gear. Nothing un-manly about that.

    You would generally only switch at the trail head or between rides as most dinglespeed setups cannot be shifted on the fly. A dinglespeed is an SS, just one that carries your spare ring and cog more conveniently
    I hear you, but i was under the ass-umption that a "dinglespeed" had a single ring in the front and a derailleur dangling in the back...hence dinglespeed. I could be high.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vindiggitydog
    I hear you, but i was under the ass-umption that a "dinglespeed" had a single ring in the front and a derailleur dangling in the back...hence dinglespeed. I could be high.
    dinglespeed can refer to any kind of strange "2 speed" setup, but the one being discussed here uses two cogs and two chainrings, like this. (better close-ups here and here). The cog and ring towards the inside are one gear ratio you want to use, and the cog and ring on the outside are the other ratio. The particular combos are chosen so that with the same length chain the wheel sits in almost the exact same spot with either combo so little to no adjustment is needed when switching between trail and street gear ratios. No dangly tensioners or other devices needed if you have a dedicated SS frame and it functions exactly like a "true" SS, including dead-straight chainline and smooth pedaling. Switching ratios involves stopping to loosen the rear wheel enough to slip the chain onto the other set of gears, but can be done fairly quickly.

    This thread is making me want to set mine up again, but that would involve a new ring and cog purchase

  16. #16
    Out spokin'
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    ... A dinglespeed is an SS ...
    Not to be disagreeable, but I disagree.

    --Sparty
    Last edited by Sparticus; 06-06-2010 at 07:21 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Wow, I love this forum. I just logged on and already there are so many replies. I'll try to reply to everyone.

    Here is a link to the freewheel I'm thinking of using. Dos Eno Freewheel

    Im also using a Fetish Fixation frame right now. Its a little heavy but its what I have.

    Brad- Dinglespeed... did you make that up? lol. Thats exactly what I am thinking. I think my only restriction on the entire plan is the Dos Eno freewheel because they only have a 19/17T and a 18/16T. As far as the front goes I already have the 32T and was thinking about ordering whatever other custom ring I need from ISuckAtRiding.

    Andrew- Thanks for telling me that your "politely" calling me stupid. lol. I'm just kidding. Your not going to hurt my feelings with a couple of words, I have a thicker skin than that. I really appreciate you tellin me what you think though.
    I never had any plans to run a 2x1, I need to be able to keep the wheel in the same spot in the dropouts, so I need the chain to be the same length on either set. I have also used a Godspeed tensioner in the past (i still have it) and found out that they can be a real p.i.t.a. sometimes.

    Boomin- I would like to run a setup more like what you were runnin with a little wider ratio but I am restricted by the rear freewheel. Great to actually see on someone's bike what I have in my mind.

  18. #18
    playin hooky
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    I use steel QR's on my SS and both my fixies, as long as it's put on tight and made of steel it should be fine.

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