Need Brake help-want hydro disc- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Need Brake help-want hydro disc

    Ok, so I am looking to you all that have more experience in this area than I do. I am looking to move on to hydro discs at this point. I was on Price Point earlier today and looked at a couple. I like the Hayes Grams and the Marta SL's. Basically, I am looking for something light yet very functional. I want something that is a complete set up to include, levers, lines, rotors and calipers in a 160mm size.

    I am looking to spend $300 or less for a set unless there will be a dramatic improvement for the extra money.

    Please have a look at Price Line and let me know what you find and think the best brake/deal is.

    Once, I have them on the bike, I will then sell my complete BB7 set up w/ Paul levers to try to recoup some of the funds put out for the upgrade.
    Last edited by 1SPD; 07-07-2010 at 10:30 AM.

  2. #2
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    You ok w/ mineral oil? If so, Sh!mano XT's are pretty rock solid. I have 3 generations of XT brakes and am especially happy with their latest: M775. These can be found for about $300 f&r on ebay or chainreaction.
    That being said, your BB7's are pretty sweet brakes in their own right. Why do you want to just to hydro's? weight?
    -Chris

  3. #3
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    I would check out what Formula has to offer. When I get the funds together, this is my first choice. Ebay has them for $239.


    http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Formula-Oro...item58850caa88

  4. #4
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    Price Line? You mean, Price Point?

    Anyway, I haven't heard a single person complain about XT's. Actually, anything Shimano would work great---even down to the Deore. If you've got the dough, get the XT's.

    Also, might be interested in the BB7/Paul for my next project.

  5. #5
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    My BB7's are pretty nice. Especially with the linear cables and Paul levers. But the feel of the hydro's is so much nicer imo. Weight is secondary though important to me as I have managed to widdle the weight of my steel frame steed down to 20.46 lbs. None the less, more than anything, I am tired of dealing with the squealing. I have tried damn near everything and can't seem to make it go away. I have been told that it will eventually go away but that has yet to happen. I have sanded down the pats and rotors. I have meticulously cleaned the rotors w/ rubbing alcohol, readjusted as per the manufacturers directions and emails as well as had a shop take a look at them. Yet, every frickn set of hydros I have played with, don't squeal and work great!

    I am not too stressed about the mineral oil. I actually looked at the XT's but am a bit of a "don't want any more shimano on my bike type of guy" But the price is right right where I am looking so they are on my list.

  6. #6
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    Correction made! Sorrry, yes, Price POINT.

  7. #7
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    I'm assuming you mean Pricepoint -- though I could be off and have just never used Price Line to buy bike bits. Not tryin' to be snarky...just sayin'

    Anyhow, Pricepoint's got a set of Hayes on sale for $99/wheel. I have used both the stroker gram and stroker carbon. They're not bad brakes for the price. I've got stroker grams on my s.i.s.s. right now and they're pretty good. I don't absolutely love the feel of the lever (the shape, not the feedback), but that's just a personal thing/minor niggle. The brakes modulate well enough and were relatively simple to service -- I had to shorten the lines and bleed them.

    I have to admit that I am not a fan of the post-mount style brakes, which is what the hayes use. I prefer I.S. mounts as I find they are easier to set-up (easier to center). So there's that. Also, the hayes brakes use D.O.T. fluid which, if you're not careful with it, can eat paint and discolor stuff if it's not washed off thoroughly.

    As a bike whore, I've also owned/used hydros from Avid, Shimano, Magura, and Hope. My current favorites are the Shimano XT's. I love the shape and feel of the lever, they modulate well, and have useful and functional adjustment bits on the lever -- there's an adjuster for reach and for "bite". They use mineral oil instead of dot fluid. If you visit the brake forum I'm sure you can find a few threads discussing/debating the benefits/merits/drawbacks of the two fluid types, so I won't go there. For this context, I'd just add that for the kind of riding I do on my ss (I'm running the xt's on my singular swift), I don't have issues with brake fade.

    I got my xt's on fleabay for a really good price -- less than $200 for the set. And just picked up a second pair for a similar price. You just gotta be watchful/patient...

  8. #8
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    Well, it looks like there are quite a few fans of XT's here. Nothing wrong with that. I actually love the lever shape of my old XTR levers so that is a plus. Add in the mineral oil verses DOT and well, things are tipping that way.

    Need to do a little more research as I don't know what the difference is between I.S. and post mount.

    Price Point has the XT kit for $329 right now. I am sure I would need to cut the cables and bleed them once that is done so I will need to read up on that as well since I have never dealt with hydros before and have no clue of how to do this.

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  10. #10
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    I completely understand the desire for new stuff, but imho it would be reasonable to try just a little bit more on those BB7s. Any brake can run into squeal problems, even high end hydros.

    Is it front and rear both, or just one end with a problem? Is it in all conditions or just wet? Is it only when the brakes are still cool, only when they get heated up, all the time? You said you tried sanding the pads down, but a squeal is often a sign of contamination in which case sanding usually won't help. You can try to bake the contaminate out or try a new pair for $20.

    Or you could always just give them to me My wife's bike could use a set to match mine

  11. #11
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    Thanks p nut. I went ahead and bought them. I actually called a buddy of mine that has a set and discussed a few things. I should be happier with these.

    I was going to go with hydros in the beginning but was trying to keep the costs down a bit. But that has all gone out the window with this project for the most part.

    Now, as for the BB7's. I agree, it could be that the pads got contaminated. By what? Who knows at this point. I will answer all your questions though.

    1. it happens on both fr/rr
    2. all conditions (been really dry here but I still hit a few creek crossings)
    3. cool and when heated up. happens during the entire ride.

    I thought about that, but my wifes frame just arrived today and I will start working on getting that built up for her. But I don't have a rear wheel with disc mounts so she will be riding an old set of Mavic 517's w/XT hubs and XTR v-brakes instead.

    Ok, so my next thing will be having to cut the brake lines when they come as I am sure they are going to be too long. I will need to look into that procedure as well as bleeding and getting some more fluid for them obviously when I do that.

  12. #12
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    Sweet, I just noticed that hte place I ordered them from is in PA. That means that they will probably get here in the next 2 days!

    Yes, I am impatient!

  13. #13
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    Just checking. Even the wrong type of mud can contaminate a pad. I'm a big fan of due diligence, but at some point it certainly isn't worth the time any more for a hobby.

    Bleeding Shimanos is pretty easy, plus if you do it well enough you can cut the line without needing a bleed (or so I've been told, I'm apparently not that good lol). My one frustration was Shimano not making making their fluid and bleed kits easily available (they were only selling the fluid in bike shop sized containers and I couldn't get a kit). I just did a quick search and that thankfully no longer appears to be the case.

    One word of warning on Shimano's: sticky pistons. Generally not a big problem, but you should take time to clean the pistons every now and then as they seem to be more prone to sticking

  14. #14
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    I swear, there is something with all of them!

    I will start doing my research. I don't understand how you can cut the lines and not have to bleed them. I mean, where does the fluid go when the line is open. Does it not run out? I know that on oil lines when doing a turbo swap on my car you could simply crimp/clamp the hose but I didn't think that was possible with breaks. I know, I probably sound ignorant here, and I am in the trueist definish of the word. I will go and do some reading over the next couple of days so I can get these things installed asap once they arrive.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1SPD
    I swear, there is something with all of them!

    I will start doing my research. I don't understand how you can cut the lines and not have to bleed them. I mean, where does the fluid go when the line is open. Does it not run out? I know that on oil lines when doing a turbo swap on my car you could simply crimp/clamp the hose but I didn't think that was possible with breaks. I know, I probably sound ignorant here, and I am in the trueist definish of the word. I will go and do some reading over the next couple of days so I can get these things installed asap once they arrive.
    fluid stays in the lever if you leave the cap on (like holding your finger on the top of a straw) and if you hold the hose upright you will only spill the fluid that's in the portion you cut off

  16. #16
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    Ahhhh, said the grasshopper! I assume you can reuse the fitting correct?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1SPD
    Ahhhh, said the grasshopper! I assume you can reuse the fitting correct?
    it can take a little bit of work to extract the barb from the old end but its doable. The olive gets compressed when tightened so I'd get a new one of those just to be sure

  18. #18
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    To trim hydro brake lines, most instruction manuals will tell you to use something like a cable cutter. While I've tried and had varying degrees of success using my housing cutters, when it comes to trimming shimano lines I find a new, single-edge razor blade works best. YMMV...

    As boomn has suggested, you'll want to have a new olive (or two...) on-hand if you choose to tackle the hose lengthening task yourself. If I can do it, you can do it.

    I would be very impressed, indeed, to see someone trim a hydraulic line without having to follow that up with a bleed. I'm not sayin' that it outright can't be done, just not so sure I believe it without seeing it.

    Enjoy the new brakes.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild

    I would be very impressed, indeed, to see someone trim a hydraulic line without having to follow that up with a bleed. I'm not sayin' that it outright can't be done, just not so sure I believe it without seeing it.
    .

    I've shortened hoses on two sets of Magura Martas and a set of HS-33's without having to bleed any of them.

    As long as you work carefully and don't wave the cut hose around or knock it against anything it can (usually) be done. Whether you believe what I'm saying is up to you, of course

    I don't think however that Shimano brakes come pre-bled anyway? Never having fitted any I could well be wrong about this

  20. #20
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    IMO you need to bleed any brake after cutting a line. Your going to get air even if a small amount. Bleeding Shimano brakes is simple why not be sure and safe. Shimano comes in two pk sets lever, hose, fittings and oil in one and the caliper and disc in the other. Are they selling them assembled, bled, and ready to install now?

  21. #21
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    The set is brand new. Take offs from a brand new bike. So they are fully assembled and ready to bolt on. But I am sure they are probably going to be long, so I will need to order some olives I guess.

    If the process is simple then I will bleed them. It is my understanding that yes, you will get some sort of air in the line even if minute. I also hear that you can contaminate the fluid simply due to anything that might be on the actual cables that gets in it when cutting. Don't get me wrong, I am not that anal but if it is simple, I would rather just do it and know that there are no issues. Granted, I have not done it before so I could end up generating some issues of my own.

  22. #22
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    Ordered new olives. Thanks Voodoochild! The downside is that the brakes will probably be here tomorrow since they are only coming from Philly but the olives may not be here until early next week. I paid for 2 day shipping but who knows when they will actually leave the facility.

  23. #23
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    If you have a well stocked hardware or plumbing supply near they may have brass ferrules the size your needing. Used for small compression fittings. I will post back at lunch and let you know what size fits Shimano hose. Maybe it doesn't have to be so expensive

  24. #24
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    Thats cool. I already ordered them but it will always be good to know that I can run out and pick some up at the local AC store or hardware store.

  25. #25
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    Brakes came in Thur afternoon! Frickin awesome! Of course I bolted them on already. Looks like they are 1-2" too long max. So, I am not too stressed just yet. I ended up using my linear cables in building my wifes bike so I will be selling them without rotors or cables but they do have brand new pads with 15 miles on them. I will also include my Paul levers. I will probably also be posting up something in the for sale section. Got a few things to get rid of at this point: BB7's/Paul levers, Thompson Stem (silver), Thompson layback post 27.2 black, XT rotors (bolt on style that fits Shimano hubs I guess-brand new, came with my brakes but can't use them). Gotta get some pics and then I will post it all up.

  26. #26
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    PM me a price for them BB7/Paul's.

  27. #27
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    PM sent

  28. #28
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    Got out on a short 8 mile sprint ride yesterday. Brakes worked great! As did my stock wheels/tires. Yep, bent a rear wheel on my last group ride due to going down on a rocky section and the rear wheel getting wedged between two rocks durning the fall. Now the wheels are at the shop w/ rear being rebuilt and getting a Stans kit installed along with new Race King tires. One day I will have the whole bike together at one time! Go figure, my cranks are due to arrive today!

  29. #29
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    Which Race Kings did you end up getting?

  30. #30
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    I am doing the 2.2's. I did not do the superlights or what ever they are called. Should make for a fast and somewhat squishy ride if that makes any sense. Not sure how soon I will actually get them back from the shop though as he has to order my rim, tires, and stan kit, then build it all. I still need to drop off my front wheel so he can make that tubeless as well.

  31. #31
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    Not to be an ass, but only the Supersonic version of the 2.2 Race Kings come in the Black Chili compound, and without the Black Chili, the RC is a pretty average tire. Buy the SS not for the weight, but for the compound.

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