Need advice on a steel frame climbing machine w/horizontal dropouts- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    18

    Need advice on a steel frame climbing machine w/horizontal dropouts

    I'm looking for advice on a steel frame with nice sliding horizontal dropouts. I have a EBB cannondale that creaks contrantly, however I'm not completely opposed to EBB's.
    I spend a lot of time reading on these boards and usually find my answers through searches. I've been researching frames recently trying to find something that will fit my needs but not leave me broke.

    99% of my riding is very technical single track consisting of steep climbs, steep rocky switchbacks, and just lots of rocks and tight turns. I will be using a steel rigid fork as well.

    I've sort of narrowed it down to:

    Canfield Nimble 9
    Salsa El Mariachi w/matching fork
    Jeff Jones steel diamond frameset with an EBB.

    I see that some of these frames are considered light in the frontend end(lifting easily). I'm concerned that this will be a problem for me when climbing.

    My budget is no more than 750. This is a lot of money for me so I really want to make sure I choose the right frame. Any advice or experiences would be appreciated.
    Last edited by mcshaner2k; 09-12-2011 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #2
    .......
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,707
    I've been very happy with the El Mariachi. I've got some good climbs in and she didn't disappoint. Lot better than the Vassago I had. I don't have any experience with the other two bikes. But I'm actually going to head over to Canfield today to go for a test ride on a new Nimble 9.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by p nut View Post
    I've been very happy with the El Mariachi. I've got some good climbs in and she didn't disappoint. Lot better than the Vassago I had. I don't have any experience with the other two bikes. But I'm actually going to head over to Canfield today to go for a test ride on a new Nimble 9.
    Do you ride your El Mariachi with a rigid fork?

    Definitely report back if you take that Nimble 9 for a spin!

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,022
    Do you do most SS climbing out of the saddle, because in that case I wouldn't worry too much about these bikes being light in the front end like they can be for seating spinning.

    Short chainstays put your weight further back over the rear wheel, and when you're seated this can make your weight try to flip the bike backwards over the rear wheel on steep climbs. Standing usually moves your weight further forward on the bike and negates that issue, and when standing you have more ability to shift your weight if you do feel something bad happening. Playing around with different frames and with different wheel positions in my track ends I found the shortest chainstays to always climb the best for SS, especially if the climb requires bursts of big power. I haven't tried anything quite as short as the Nimble 9, but it sounds tasty! Having more weight on the rear wheel by having it further forward seems to do a lot to prevent the rear tire from slipping and spinning.

    Head angle can have some effect on that feeling as well, but I've never noticed it nearly as much as chainstay length differences. I was able to do a pretty direct comparison on my Inbred with a 1.5deg angled headset and the bike climbed just as well as it had with a steeper head angle. I believe the resulting setup was about as slack as the Nimble 9

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by boomn View Post
    Do you do most SS climbing out of the saddle, because in that case I wouldn't worry too much about these bikes being light in the front end like they can be for seating spinning.

    Short chainstays put your weight further back over the rear wheel, and when you're seated this can make your weight try to flip the bike backwards over the rear wheel on steep climbs. Standing usually moves your weight further forward on the bike and negates that issue, and when standing you have more ability to shift your weight if you do feel something bad happening. Playing around with different frames and with different wheel positions in my track ends I found the shortest chainstays to always climb the best for SS, especially if the climb requires bursts of big power. I haven't tried anything quite as short as the Nimble 9, but it sounds tasty! Having more weight on the rear wheel by having it further forward seems to do a lot to prevent the rear tire from slipping and spinning.

    Head angle can have some effect on that feeling as well, but I've never noticed it nearly as much as chainstay length differences. I was able to do a pretty direct comparison on my Inbred with a 1.5deg angled headset and the bike climbed just as well as it had with a steeper head angle. I believe the resulting setup was about as slack as the Nimble 9

    Interesting... Thanks for the info.

    I try to stay in the saddle as long as I can. On real steep climbs I usually always end up standing. I like the idea of having really short chainstays.. I agree the Nimble 9 does look quite tasty

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by mcshaner2k View Post
    I'm looking for advice on a steel frame with nice sliding horizontal dropouts.

    ...

    I see that some of these frames are considered light in the frontend end(lifting easily). I'm concerned that this will be a problem for me when climbing.
    Lifting easily does not depend on a light frontend but on the geometry.

    Surly Karate Monkey climbs pretty good, is cheap and versatile. If you take care of the gearing (calculation with http://www.eehouse.org/fixin/formfmu.php) you can place the rear axle at a long or short position in the dropouts an so get a shorter or longer wheelbase

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,022
    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    Lifting easily does not depend on a light frontend but on the geometry.
    "a light front-end" is a phrase some people use to describe the front end not wanting to stay down because of geometry. Same thing, different words

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    18
    Yes this is what I meant by light frontend. I was referring to the geometry of the frame.

    I like the Karate Monkey too. I have a surly 1x1 rigid fork on my SS now. It flexes like mad under hard breaking and I think the Karate monkey fork is basically the same.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    333
    Quote Originally Posted by mcshaner2k View Post
    Yes this is what I meant by light frontend. I was referring to the geometry of the frame.

    I like the Karate Monkey too. I have a surly 1x1 rigid fork on my SS now. It flexes like mad under hard breaking and I think the Karate monkey fork is basically the same.
    Didn't recognize this with my KM fork using BB7 @ 185 mm.

  10. #10
    .......
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,707
    Quote Originally Posted by mcshaner2k View Post
    Do you ride your El Mariachi with a rigid fork?
    Yep.


  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    658
    I was going to tell you to look into vicious cycles, but then I saw the price limit....
    ride fast...take chances...

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by p nut View Post
    Yep.

    Nice ride!

    What fork is that your running?

  13. #13
    is turning a big gear
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    505
    OP- why do you want horizontal DO's?
    Get it unlocked.

  14. #14
    ******
    Reputation: monzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,990
    Here's a link to a bike that is complete and in your price range. Not sure of the age of the ad. I like the 26" version of this a lot. You could then cannibalize the parts for money and come out on top of the came.

    Since It seems you are going 29".
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

  15. #15
    .......
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,707
    Quote Originally Posted by mcshaner2k View Post

    What fork is that your running?
    It's a Surly Pugsley fork.

    Quote Originally Posted by estabro View Post
    OP- why do you want horizontal DO's?
    He doesn't. He meant sliding drops.

  16. #16
    Gigantic Hawk
    Reputation: dubthang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,563
    I'm enjoying my medium Nimble9 quite a bit. I have a Niner carbon fork on it. The front can get light on super steep stuff, but the bigger issue is the low bb height. I def. pedal stike more than I used too, and logs (or similar) can be an issue. That said, I love this frame, and am more than willing to adjust my riding style to overcome the low bb. Plus, the low bb works wonders when pointed down hill.

  17. #17
    .......
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,707
    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    I'm enjoying my medium Nimble9 quite a bit. I have a Niner carbon fork on it. The front can get light on super steep stuff, but the bigger issue is the low bb height. I def. pedal stike more than I used too, and logs (or similar) can be an issue. That said, I love this frame, and am more than willing to adjust my riding style to overcome the low bb. Plus, the low bb works wonders when pointed down hill.
    I'm going to head over to Canfield either today or tomorrow to check out a new N9. I hope I can get a proper test ride in.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    18
    Thanks for your input guys!

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Flat Ark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,646
    Quote Originally Posted by p nut View Post
    I've been very happy with the El Mariachi. I've got some good climbs in and she didn't disappoint. Lot better than the Vassago I had. I don't have any experience with the other two bikes. But I'm actually going to head over to Canfield today to go for a test ride on a new Nimble 9.
    I tried my Vassago with a Reba, El Mariachi and Niner Carbon fork but never really liked how it handled. Got my hands on a DT Swiss Carbon fork and it completely changed how the bike climbs and handles. Made it more XC feeling up front but it kept the smooth riding rear end. Just FYI.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 04-03-2011, 11:16 AM
  2. Slipping rear wheel in horizontal dropouts (bontrager frame)
    By paetersen in forum Vintage, Retro, Classic
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-26-2010, 08:21 PM
  3. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-03-2008, 01:14 PM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-09-2007, 07:28 PM
  5. ENO Eccentric on horizontal dropouts: new frame
    By TwistedCrank in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-02-2005, 09:19 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.