Most Common SS Cog Size?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Most Common SS Cog Size?

    Hello all, Quick question, please leave a comment. My new company is soon to begin producing SingleSpeed cogs and I'd like to see what sizes everyone seems to be running. Would producing , 16T, 18T, and 20T options suffice everyone's needs? Anyone fond of and/or "swear by" any of the odd-toothed sizes...what sizes? Thanks for any help!

  2. #2
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    Most others offer sizes from 16-22t with some offering up to 24.
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    I would say with all the popularity of the NW rings, sticking to even tooth numbers will serve you better. Also, with mtb 22 may be better than the 16, maybe even bigger but I can't speak for anyone else.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

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    Thanks for the replies guys!

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    Odd sizes are good for some folks, bit evens 16-22t should cover most of us.

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    I'd say definitely add a 22, then odd tooth cogs as a secondary priority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    I would say with all the popularity of the NW rings, sticking to even tooth numbers will serve you better.
    why/how does a NW chainring make positive numbers favorable? I always though odd numbers were better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    why/how does a NW chainring make positive numbers favorable? I always though odd numbers were better?
    It shouldn't matter.....if the cog is not N/W then it makes no difference whether the ring is or not.

    Personally I really liked 32/21, but my frame doesn't like that combo, so I ended up with 33/22 before upping to 34/22.
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    Not sure if above answered your question OneSpeed... But yes if normal rings, odd tooth rings will alternate the position of the chain on the ring, which may help extend drivetrain life. With even number tooth rings, the same links hit the same teeth, which may allow somewhat uneven wear.

    A NW ring must be even number so the wide teeth always fall into the wide links, and the narrow teeth go into the narrow links.

    Hope that makes sense.

    That said, I see little to no benefit of NW rings on singlespeeds because chain retention (from the rear derailleur) is not an issue like it is on geared bikes.

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    Not sure of the benefits for NW on the cogs for SS so i have always ran odd (15,17,19).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jten9 View Post
    Not sure if above answered your question OneSpeed... But yes if normal rings, odd tooth rings will alternate the position of the chain on the ring, which may help extend drivetrain life. With even number tooth rings, the same links hit the same teeth, which may allow somewhat uneven wear.
    Scratches head...when you say "normal rings" are you referring to chainring or cog or both? So an odd # chainring will extend life theoretically? Does it matter whether the cog is odd or even?

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    16-22T cogs in even numbers would meet every need I could have.

    However, the factor that I look for most in a cog is a wide base.

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    Thanks everyone for all the replies, very helpful!

    @bhaalgorn - We've designed with a full 1/4" base thickness :-)

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    Jten and I have the same understanding. A chain link is an inner (N) and outer plate (W) combo, two 1/2 links. Throw an odd in there and it displaces the chain from that NW pairing.

    Jten also addressed jmctav's question in his thought out response, the combo to extend chain life would be even-even or odd-odd so the chain links hit the same teeth every go round.

    As far as NW on an SS, I don't disagree that proper chain tension negates the NW advantage. In my case, the AB Oval ring I'm using is NW and I don't think they make a "normal" ring.

    In any case, run what ya' brung.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    Jten and I have the same understanding. A chain link is an inner (N) and outer plate (W) combo, two 1/2 links. Throw an odd in there and it displaces the chain from that NW pairing.

    Jten also addressed jmctav's question in his thought out response, the combo to extend chain life would be even-even or odd-odd so the chain links hit the same teeth every go round.

    As far as NW on an SS, I don't disagree that proper chain tension negates the NW advantage. In my case, the AB Oval ring I'm using is NW and I don't think they make a "normal" ring.

    In any case, run what ya' brung.
    No, an odd number cog on the rear of the bike will NOT affect how the chain lands on the NW chainring up front. I can't tell if that is what you're trying to say or not, but it sure sounds like you are saying that you have to use an even number cog and chain ring if you want to use a NW chain ring, which is not correct.

    As for the original post, I'd say the most common are 18, 19 and 20. That said, if you started with an 18, 20 and 22 I think you'd hit a very broad cross section of riders. The big driver for me is cost. I've been finding CK cogs for $55 shipped. I can find Al cogs for a little less, but in my experience they wear at more than double the rate of the CKs. Therefore I've built out my collection of CK cogs and have a smaller chain ring for when the 20t isn't a low enough gear.

  16. #16
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    The availability of some of the odd sizes, especially 17, 19, and 21t are important to me because I like to run a slightly bigger chainring (typically 35t or 36t) the odd sized cogs give me a bit more room to play around and swap depending on where I'm riding (smaller cog near where I live in New York, bigger cog when I visit family in New Hampshire), without having to make jumps that are too big or too small.

    Cost is probably the biggest factor for me though too. Surly cogs at ~$30 are the sweet spot on my budget.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by solo-x View Post
    No, an odd number cog on the rear of the bike will NOT affect how the chain lands on the NW chainring up front. I can't tell if that is what you're trying to say or not, but it sure sounds like you are saying that you have to use an even number cog and chain ring if you want to use a NW chain ring, which is not correct.
    That doesn't seem logical to me, but I personally haven't tested the theory with an odd numbered cog so I can't give you real world data either. That theory is what I read somewhere, probably on this site, and helped me determine what freewheel to purchase to use with my NW Oval. Perhaps it's the ratio that is the important factor I'm not taking into account enough or perhaps the fact that a chain link is an outer and inner combo and so free of any ratio or odd tooth effect. I've run a number of different combinations, even-even to even-odd to odd-odd, using non NW rings on my SS and I really don't care what others use as long as they find it works for them. I guess I'll have to do some research and determine for myself if it's true. Thanks for the contradictory opinion, my apologies if you are using your real world observations for your point, you've inspired me to do some testing which is always fun as it involves some tinkering and usually some riding. I'll take a look at putting the NW on my geared bike I suppose and see if the chain stays on the NW track.

    In any case, run what ya' brung and what you find comfortable.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    That doesn't seem logical to me, but I personally haven't tested the theory with an odd numbered cog so I can't give you real world data either. That theory is what I read somewhere, probably on this site, and helped me determine what freewheel to purchase to use with my NW Oval. Perhaps it's the ratio that is the important factor I'm not taking into account enough or perhaps the fact that a chain link is an outer and inner combo and so free of any ratio or odd tooth effect. I've run a number of different combinations, even-even to even-odd to odd-odd, using non NW rings on my SS and I really don't care what others use as long as they find it works for them. I guess I'll have to do some research and determine for myself if it's true. Thanks for the contradictory opinion, my apologies if you are using your real world observations for your point, you've inspired me to do some testing which is always fun as it involves some tinkering and usually some riding. I'll take a look at putting the NW on my geared bike I suppose and see if the chain stays on the NW track.

    In any case, run what ya' brung and what you find comfortable.
    Both the chain and the chain ring are 1/2" pitch. IE, the spacing between each pin in the chain is 1/2" and the spacing between each tooth on the chain ring is 1/2". As the chain ring turns, each tooth of the chain ring interfaces with the gap between the two pins in the chain ever 1/2". This cannot change unless the chain jumps a tooth on the chain ring. What is happening on the cog end doesn't matter. You could even have a cog with a 1" pitch and an odd tooth count and it wouldn't change what happens at the chain ring.

    Feel free to test this out yourself, but a simple free body diagram should be all you need to do to prove it out to yourself. I've seen this misinformation shared before which is why I've taken the time to try to correct it.

    Now, a NW chain ring with a chain utilizing a half-link would not work because while the pitch hasn't changed, you are skipping half of a link which results in a change to the order of the wide links landing on the chain ring. Instead of Wide-Narrow-W-N-W, you effectively get W-N-N-W-N-W.

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    And I agree, run what you're comfortable with!

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    I've been considering that argument in terms of the chain links, that one link is an inner and outer and reached the conclusion that a half-link would certainly do as you state. When thinking of it in those terms, that regardless of chain length, ring/cog ratio, or even-odd/ odd-even setups, it doesn't make sense that the chain would move as I previously envisioned. So, I humbly bow to your wisdom.

    I'm getting a 17 tooth WI Eno freewheel.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  21. #21
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    Just a comment on the odd number chainrings and cogs.

    This is something we used to aim for in the 1960s on our fixed wheel bikes, and preferably with Prime numbers, eg 13 or 17 teeth at the rear, and 47 or 53 at the front.

    The theory being that when you braked using the fixed wheel, the part of the tyre skidding would be different each time, ie it evens out the wear. That's quite important when you're running condom thin tubulars.

    eg If you run a integer ratio such as 52/13 (4 to 1) then there's only 4 spots on the tyre where the wear happens.
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  22. #22
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    i like prime numbers. currently riding a 19 tooth cog.

    qualitatively: prime > odd > even

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    My preferences aren't much different than above, but I'll add my input anyway:
    I imagine offering anything in the range between 18 and 22, odd or even will cover the vast majority of your market.
    For me, I'm pretty happy with 32x22, 32x21, or 34x22. I've tried 34x20 but prefer the other 3 combos. I don't care about going fast, but I hate to walk.

    For me, aside from being 21 or 22T, my deciding factors are:wide base width, price, and aesthetics.
    I want a 5-6mm base, (ideally) under $50, and doesn't look like a stamped utilitarian chunk of crap (lookin' at you Surly!).
    Colors are nice, but only incidental. Wolftooth and AbsoluteBlack sure are fancy!

    Edit: I googled Surly cogs. the newer ones with sloping from the base up to the teeth, and holes drilled in them aren't bad looking. So, I'll concede that they're OK. But they're not as pretty as alloy ones!

    Steel is great, but I honestly don't even care about wear rate. My EndlessBikes KickAss 22T has probably 2k miles on it and the anodizing is barely wearing off. I know there's plenty of guys that kill aluminum cogs in a season, but I don't have that problem.

    I'm always interested in bling. got pics of what you're making?

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    With more of us using fatbikes, we need larger rear cogs for snow conditions.

    I would like anything between 23 - 26 teeth.

    Or better yet, an adapter so I could bolt on granny ring cogs.

    And made out of steel, preferably a non-rusting variety.
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    As mentioned, I have designed a plenty wide base at 6.35mm. These will be produced out of billet Grade5 TITANIUM so they will be bullet proof strong, last forever, AND likely be lighter than anything else on the market (or close to it). Best part of these is that they will be priced hopefully around $65-$75 rather than $125+ for some other Ti cogs I have seen. Sorry to be "spammy" but check us out on Instagram to keep updated - @slfmotion Smoother Lighter Faster

    Most Common SS Cog Size?-img_6862.jpg

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    That's a great looking product. Seems like you hit all the marks for what most riders want from a cog, at a great price point if you can deliver at the $70-ish mark.

    Because I'm a broke Mofo (PT school) and I still like to have a few different tooth count cogs on hand, I'd be thrilled to see that exact product in stainless or 7075-T6 at a lower price point.

    All the same, $75 for a nice looking cog that won't beat up a free hub and may last forever is pretty attractive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    My preferences aren't much different than above, but I'll add my input anyway:
    I imagine offering anything in the range between 18 and 22, odd or even will cover the vast majority of your market.
    For me, I'm pretty happy with 32x22, 32x21, or 34x22. I've tried 34x20 but prefer the other 3 combos. I don't care about going fast, but I hate to walk.

    For me, aside from being 21 or 22T, my deciding factors are:wide base width, price, and aesthetics.
    I want a 5-6mm base, (ideally) under $50, and doesn't look like a stamped utilitarian chunk of crap (lookin' at you Surly!).
    Colors are nice, but only incidental. Wolftooth and AbsoluteBlack sure are fancy!

    Edit: I googled Surly cogs. the newer ones with sloping from the base up to the teeth, and holes drilled in them aren't bad looking. So, I'll concede that they're OK. But they're not as pretty as alloy ones!

    Steel is great, but I honestly don't even care about wear rate. My EndlessBikes KickAss 22T has probably 2k miles on it and the anodizing is barely wearing off. I know there's plenty of guys that kill aluminum cogs in a season, but I don't have that problem.

    I'm always interested in bling. got pics of what you're making?
    Not sure what Surly cogs you've seen. Mine are machined. Another plus about Surly cogs to note is that they are offset. Very nice feature when trying to get that chain line perfect on a SS specific hub. $30 max for a quality piece is hard to beat.
    Last edited by Waverys; 10-23-2016 at 11:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superx421 View Post
    As mentioned, I have designed a plenty wide base at 6.35mm. These will be produced out of billet Grade5 TITANIUM so they will be bullet proof strong, last forever, AND likely be lighter than anything else on the market (or close to it). Best part of these is that they will be priced hopefully around $65-$75 rather than $125+ for some other Ti cogs I have seen. Sorry to be "spammy" but check us out on Instagram to keep updated - @slfmotion Smoother Lighter Faster

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If you can come in around that price point in Ti, I would totally snag one for my 20t (my common race size for endurance races). I love me some Ti, but can't stomach the Niner price tag...

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    Quote Originally Posted by solo-x View Post
    If you can come in around that price point in Ti, I would totally snag one for my 20t (my common race size for endurance races). I love me some Ti, but can't stomach the Niner price tag...

    I recently paid about $80 for the Niner Ti from Jenso.
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    Agreed, if you can sell a nice Ti cog at that price, you will have a winner. It's been tried by a number of companies, but they are always more expensive than that. I'd probably grab couple at that price. Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    I recently paid about $80 for the Niner Ti from Jenso.
    For reals? Nice find!

    I just checked. The 22t cog is on sale currently for $90. There is a $15 gift card on top of that too, so right at $75 for that cog. The others are normal price, and I don't use a 22t often enough to make it a worthwhile investment at this time.

    Final edit, I snagged one anyhow. I needed to get a 2nd spacer kit for an extra wheelset anyhow, and wanted to pick up a 22t for the occasional ride with a lot of climbing. I was planning on the Surly spacer kit ($40) and an Endless 22t cog ($45? something like that). So I picked up this guy and effectively got a Ti 22t cog for $35.

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    Thanks guys for the kind words! I'm currently producing our very popular rear derailleur pulley wheels I call Hyper Pulley Wheels. That was my first product and I realized I was missing a large part of the MTB community by not offering anything for the SS crowd...so the 2nd product on the list was some cogs for you guys :-)

    I will have a couple 20T cogs soon (maybe a couple weeks out) that I'd be interested in getting "real life/trail" tested for me...anyone interested?

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    Quote Originally Posted by superx421 View Post
    I will have a couple 20T cogs soon (maybe a couple weeks out) that I'd be interested in getting "real life/trail" tested for me...anyone interested?
    Haha, that's a silly question! Yeah, I'm interested. Let me know what's involved with the testing requirements. I'm in the North East and winter is around the corner, so wet, sloppy, icy, snowy are the coming conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waverys View Post
    Not sure what Surly cogs you've seen. Mine are machined. Another plus about Surly cogs to note is that they are offset. Very nice feature when trying to get that chain line perfect on a SS specific hub. $30 max for a quality piece is hard to beat.
    To me, this just looks cheap. I know it's not actually stamped, but...
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    Just an opinion. I don't deny that saying that is a bit hypocritical, after I rave about Endless Bikes KickAss cog, but at least those come in colors and have a little bit of design to them. again, just an opinion.

    The offset is a nice feature if you need it to dial in a chainline. I was fortunate enough that I can get my chainline right with spacers on a regular cassette hub. I like that I flip my cog to wear out the other side and not have to redo the placing.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by superx421 View Post
    I will have a couple 20T cogs soon (maybe a couple weeks out) that I'd be interested in getting "real life/trail" tested for me...anyone interested?
    We're getting into prime riding season here in Phoenix. Jus' sayin'.

    I'd HTFU and ride a 32x20 if you need a lab rat.

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    Solo-X and ARandomBiker, please send me a PM and I'll get you guys on-board. That was quick and easy getting a couple cogs out in the wild to test :-).

    Thanks everyone for the continue responses!

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    Hi J! Here in the AZ mountains I love my 34x22. Down in the desert is a different story. Its flat. To the OP I would say from 16-22

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    Quote Originally Posted by fixgeardan View Post
    Hi J! Here in the AZ mountains I love my 34x22. Down in the desert is a different story. Its flat. To the OP I would say from 16-22

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  39. #39
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    Nice cogs! I'm running a 20t on my honzo if your still looking for product testers

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    To me, this just looks cheap. I know it's not actually stamped, but...
    Strangely, I think it looks good. I have quite a few of them on various bike. They seem to wear well too.
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  41. #41
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    +1 16-22
    +1 20t lab rat! Located in SoCal, hit you up on Insta.
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  42. #42
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    Very nice cogs superx421! I run 18 and 16t primarily. A 17 and 19 would be of interest as well...
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    Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the kind words and input. Also, thanks to everyone who has contacted me (PM's, e-mails, and/or thru Social Media accounts) regarding testing...it's a bit humbling really. I am now good to go with testers, no need to contact further.

    Thanks everyone!
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    Also in regards to odd sizing (17t, 19t, 21t) - I often run an assortment of different chainrings and rear cogs to get a particular ratio that also lets me put my dropouts (sliding) where I want them (mostly slammed!) I'm sure the EBB/rocker peeps do this too.

    So def 18-22t with the odds as well.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by superx421 View Post
    As mentioned, I have designed a plenty wide base at 6.35mm. These will be produced out of billet Grade5 TITANIUM so they will be bullet proof strong, last forever, AND likely be lighter than anything else on the market (or close to it). Best part of these is that they will be priced hopefully around $65-$75 rather than $125+ for some other Ti cogs I have seen. Sorry to be "spammy" but check us out on Instagram to keep updated - @slfmotion Smoother Lighter Faster

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    very nice but my concern is the length of the teeth. I had issues with the chain popping off the cog before but when I started using Surly cogs that stopped. they had longer teeth than the cheap crap I was using, I also have a Niner Ti cog and it seems to have the same style as surly in teeth length.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFFcourse View Post
    Also in regards to odd sizing (17t, 19t, 21t) - I often run an assortment of different chainrings and rear cogs to get a particular ratio that also lets me put my dropouts (sliding) where I want them (mostly slammed!) I'm sure the EBB/rocker peeps do this too.

    So def 18-22t with the odds as well.
    Yes- on the EBB, I shoot for max BB height or slightly forward position if possible. Haven't tried slammed on the sliders- does that make wheel removal more of a pain?

    My challenge with EBB is that I tend to shake the dropout loose (with King Fun Bolts and DT bolt-on or RWS). Even with sliders, my rear wheels eventually end up offset too. I'm thinking of going EBB with 142x12 rear (don't want the hassles of building yet another wheel to run a boost hub) on my next build.
    【ツ】 eDub 【ツ】

  47. #47
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    Cog

    Thought I'd share some progress updates....things are looking good....and light....and indestructible :-)

    Most Common SS Cog Size?-fullsizeoutput_b4c.jpg

  48. #48
    There's always next year.
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    Looking good. Hope it works out. Love to get ahold of them when they are ready!

  49. #49
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    Cogs

    Completed and ready for testing to begin soon enough

    Most Common SS Cog Size?-img_7262.jpgMost Common SS Cog Size?-img_7205.jpg

  50. #50
    Always in the wrong gear
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    I'm definitely going to want at least one when you're selling a range of sizes.
    They're beautiful

  51. #51
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    Those are some sweet looking cogs and dig the wide base... speaking to range I seem to find myself always choosing a 21 so I am biased to suggesting a range to include odd sizes: 16-22 would be great IMO

  52. #52
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    I would love to spread the word among the ASS crew (Austin Single Speeders). Look them up.

  53. #53
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    Looks like I'm late to the party. I live at seal-level and use a 19t cog with a 32 single chain ring. It works on flat terrain, and hilly single-track. (Dunes by the beach).
    2018 Surly Karate Monkey 'dingle' speed
    2013 CAADX 105
    2012 Pinarello Quattro
    2002 Zurich LeMond

  54. #54
    eri
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    I vote you should first cover the primes, especially 19 and 23. Primes are good because no relative multiples with your chainring size so it always takes N chainring revolutions for cog to repeat its position.

    Larger cogs let you run larger chainrings, which last longer.

    I ride a 34x23. If I were to build a similar ratio but with smaller ring (32x22) I'd get a repeat every 11 revolutions. Some combinations are deadly: 32x16 repeats every revolution, 30x20 repeats every 2, 32x20 repeats every 5.

    The weight penalty is very small and cog aesthetic stands out more for larger cogs...

    So, count one vote for you to build a gorgeous ti 23... tell the folks that want a 22 to size up their chainring and use the 23?

  55. #55
    Always in the wrong gear
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    Any progress on offering these for sale to the public?
    Donít modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  56. #56
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    Ok, I'm intrigued... what's the latest word? How did the testing go?

  57. #57
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    What's up guys! Things are looking GOOD :-). Hope to have a few 16T, 18T, and 20T cogs for sale thru the website within the next 2-3 weeks. Please keep tabs on us on Instagram as that is how we will notify when they are available for purchase.

    Thanks guys!!!
    Blake @ SLF Motion

  58. #58
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
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    Last night I had a dream that I was in court, on trial for alleging half the people who provide advice on MTBR don't have a clue.

    Being a dream, reality was wonky. Instead of being innocent until proven guilty, it was the other way 'round. The judge demanded proof that I was innocent. If I couldn't produce evidence, I would be beheaded.

    I produced this thread.

    Case dismissed. Whew!
    --sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  59. #59
    western NC
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    I'd be interested in a 21T if you decide to make them.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPIguy View Post
    I'd be interested in a 21T if you decide to make them.
    Same.

  61. #61
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    Are these cogs reversable?

  62. #62
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    Sorry for such a late response. Just so everyone know, I actually do SLF Motion at night/weekends apart from my real full-time job as an Industrial 3D Product Designer...as well as having a wife, 3 year old boy, and 4 month old girl at home. Things get a bit busy around here but it's all for the good.

    Update on the cogs - I have went thru SEVERAL rounds of prototypes trying to get the teeth and hub connection profiles perfect...and I'm still playing with it. I think I have matched the hub perfectly but the I'm still looking for the perfect teeth profile. I will keep updating this page as these continue to get developed.

    Thanks for all the questions and interest!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Most Common SS Cog Size?-img_8928.jpg  

    Most Common SS Cog Size?-fullsizeoutput_e57.jpg  

    Most Common SS Cog Size?-img_8926.jpg  

    Most Common SS Cog Size?-img_8927.jpg  

    Last edited by superx421; 04-06-2017 at 06:16 AM.

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