Lenz Milkmoney/Lunchmoney vs. other FS singlespeeds

[coke]

I'm currently looking for a new FS bike, but this time around I want to try a dedicated singlespeed. I spend probably 95% of my time on rigid singlespeeds, and am looking for a bike to race and ride on trails that are a little too rough or that have jumps too big for a rigid bike at speed.

I have a Lenz Behemoth now and like almost everything about it, so I'm leaning toward a Lenz. The milkmoney seems a little dated with geo and axles though, and the lunchmoney seems like too much bike for XC racing, so I might have to see if they'll do something custom. The lunchmoney looks great, but I would think the frame probably weighs as much as my behemoth, and I'm hesitant to go with that much travel considering how much climbing will be done out of the saddle.

Does anyone have any personal experience on the milkmoney or lunchmoney? I'm curious how the suspension behaves both uphill and downhill, and am just looking for general feedback on the bikes.


I'm also looking at a Funk La Ruta. My main bike is a rigid Funk, and adding a FS to compliment it would be cool. The price is steep though, and I can find little to no info on how well their suspension design performs. I'm sure 2" of rear travel would be fine on most trails, but not sure what happens when it's pushed to its limits on rougher trails.


I appreciate any thoughts or input on this.

[boomn]

I know the Lenz and Funk frames are nice because they are more "pure" from the SS perspective with the sliding dropouts. But my guess is that you probably get better SS pedaling performance and less bob with a non-SS frame designed with a good anti-squat value (and use the Rohloff tensioner to run it SS). A pivot around the BB like the Lenz design is fundamentally lacking in that aspect and will rely on you switching the platform switch off and on to make up for it. The selection of good-pedaling FS frames is much much broader if you are willing to use the Rohloff tensioner

Once upon a time I had an old RIP9 frame that I ran SS with a derailleur as a tensioner. It worked great, with little bob even when mashing hard, and SSFS was really fun

[coke]

I know the Lenz and Funk frames are nice because they are more "pure" from the SS perspective with the sliding dropouts. But my guess is that you probably get better SS pedaling performance and less bob with a non-SS frame designed with a good anti-squat value (and use the Rohloff tensioner to run it SS). A pivot around the BB like the Lenz design is fundamentally lacking in that aspect and will rely on you switching the platform switch off and on to make up for it. The selection of good-pedaling FS frames is much much broader if you are willing to use the Rohloff tensioner

Once upon a time I had an old RIP9 frame that I ran SS with a derailleur as a tensioner. It worked great, with little bob even when mashing hard, and SSFS was really fun

That's what I'm concerned about. It seems like all the full suspension frames that don't need a tensioner make a compromise with the suspension design. I could convert my Lenz behemoth with a tensioner, but I'm really interested in trying a dedicate FS SS frame.

[jmmUT]

Kona had some options a few years back, although they tended more toward freeride/slopestyle. The Cowan and Bass I believe were the ones that had SS dropout options.

[Frs1661]

That's what I'm concerned about. It seems like all the full suspension frames that don't need a tensioner make a compromise with the suspension design. I could convert my Lenz behemoth with a tensioner, but I'm really interested in trying a dedicate FS SS frame.

Most modern rear suspension designs have some chain growth as the rear wheel travels. Designs with higher anti-squat (desirable for SS mashing) generally have the axle move back as the suspension initially compresses; this way the chain tension as you pedal resists that initial suspension movement and pedal bob is prevented.

All this to say that if you want the best rear suspension performance you'll have to live with a tensioner. I agree with Boomn; the compromises required to have 0 chain growth are too large IMO. If you simply cannot have a tensioner, you can expect to flip the lockout on and off a lot.

I setup an old Santa Cruz Blur singlespeed with a tensioner for a while. It worked great. I don't prefer to ride FS so I sold it on. But it was a fun change of pace for awhile.

[OldHouseMan]

Don't quote me on this, this is based on a very brief discussion I had with Mikesee in the SS forum when he placed an ad for a Lenz Lunchmoney.

I believe Lenz can build the Lunchmoney with a few different tube sizes based on your size and intended use. They also have various rocker/shock configurations for different amounts of travel. It might be worth asking Lenz, and if you do, let us know. I've always been interested.

[racefit]

There’s one or two people around here running Canfield Riots in SS format. It’s one of the reasons I bought a Riot recently.

I haven’t set mine up SS yet, but I will at some point.


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[Shinkers]

I say focus more on finding a frame with geometry you want rather than whether it needs a tensioner or not.

Single pivots aren't exactly known for their pedalling characteristics.

If you like the Lenz you have, I say save a bunch of money and put a tensioner on that.

[Daydreamer]

I have a Lenz Behemoth now and like almost everything about it, so I'm leaning toward a Lenz.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I was wondering if you know what your Behemoth frame weighs?

Lenz has been a little slower then some to respond to my questions.

[coke]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I was wondering if you know what your Behemoth frame weighs?

Lenz has been a little slower then some to respond to my questions.

It was somewhere around 7 pounds with shock for my large frame. Just feels very solid and well built. My bike with pedals, 3" tires, and 40i rims came in at 29 pounds, which isn't bad at all considering what it is.
https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-p...s-1069528.html


Narrower rims and tires, removing the dropper, and replacing the geared drivetrain with a tensioner would definitely drop some weight, but I don't think it would get me quite where I want to be. My race bike weighs 19-20 pounds depending on the tire setup. I'm hoping to have a FS SS that I can choose for the rougher rides and races without feeling too heavy or sluggish in comparison.

[SSsteel4life]

I am curious on this topic as well. I have a 2019 ST stumpy thinking of trying the rohloff on. Though feel like will not be efficient enough. Be interested to see what other newer bikes people believe there suspension design would be ideal for this? Wonder if a Santa Cruz blur, Sb100, or Epic would be ideal candidates?

[coke]

I am curious on this topic as well. I have a 2019 ST stumpy thinking of trying the rohloff on. Though feel like will not be efficient enough. Be interested to see what other newer bikes people believe there suspension design would be ideal for this? Wonder if a Santa Cruz blur, Sb100, or Epic would be ideal candidates?

If I'm not mistaken, the guy who won the 2018 MTB Marathon National Championship SS class was on an epic.

[mikesee]

I've owned and ridden the 3" and 4" MilkMoney and the 5.5" LunchMoney.

If XC racing is your thing, the MM is definitely the ticket. So light, so fast. Very progressive suspension is meant more for taking the edge off than absorbing every hit and ripple along the way. IIRC my MM was under 24# with tubeless 2.3's.

The LM sits pretty far at the other end of the spectrum. Meant for all-day chunkfests, it is a heavier frame and it can handle most trails at whatever speed suits you. I built my LM more for slugging it slowly to the top of chunky trails, then having a blast hitting the A-lines on the way back down. IIRC it was close to 27# with 2.5's and a dropper.

It won't happen fast because he's always got a stack of other custom projects in the hopper, but Devin can/will do the MM with custom geo and rear thru-axle.

Bolting a tensioner onto any FS frame has never felt good to me. Changing the direction of the chain multiple times adds friction that can't be ignored, and that doesn't allow it to feel as smooth and efficient as a true SS.

[Daydreamer]

It was somewhere around 7 pounds with shock for my large frame. Just feels very solid and well built. My bike with pedals, 3" tires, and 40i rims came in at 29 pounds, which isn't bad at all considering what it is.
https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-p...s-1069528.html

.

Thanks for the reply and the link, I missed seeing that one when I searched for Lenz bikes.

[coke]

I've owned and ridden the 3" and 4" MilkMoney and the 5.5" LunchMoney.

If XC racing is your thing, the MM is definitely the ticket. So light, so fast. Very progressive suspension is meant more for taking the edge off than absorbing every hit and ripple along the way. IIRC my MM was under 24# with tubeless 2.3's.

The LM sits pretty far at the other end of the spectrum. Meant for all-day chunkfests, it is a heavier frame and it can handle most trails at whatever speed suits you. I built my LM more for slugging it slowly to the top of chunky trails, then having a blast hitting the A-lines on the way back down. IIRC it was close to 27# with 2.5's and a dropper.

It won't happen fast because he's always got a stack of other custom projects in the hopper, but Devin can/will do the MM with custom geo and rear thru-axle.

Bolting a tensioner onto any FS frame has never felt good to me. Changing the direction of the chain multiple times adds friction that can't be ignored, and that doesn't allow it to feel as smooth and efficient as a true SS.

Thanks for the comments. Sounds like a custom Milkmoney might be the way to go, and I think I can build it light and strong enough so that it doesn't have too much overlap with my rigid bike. General idea would be to run somewhere around 30i rims and a 120mm fox 34sc. Should give me the option of running from 2.3-2.6 tires while having reasonable strength and stiffness without too much unneeded weight.

The simplicity and light weight of the Funk is attractive. Just wish I had an opportunity to try one. I think 10 minutes on the Lenz and Funk would make this an easy decision.

[mikesee]

Thanks for the comments. Sounds like a custom Milkmoney might be the way to go, and I think I can build it light and strong enough so that it doesn't have too much overlap with my rigid bike. General idea would be to run somewhere around 30i rims and a 120mm fox 34sc. Should give me the option of running from 2.3-2.6 tires while having reasonable strength and stiffness without too much unneeded weight.

The simplicity and light weight of the Funk is attractive. Just wish I had an opportunity to try one. I think 10 minutes on the Lenz and Funk would make this an easy decision.

Agreed that the Funk is appealing. I contacted them last year and arranged to demo one next time I'm on the Front Range. Still haven't made it there.

And, if I'm honest with myself, it's probably a silly expenditure for me. I already have a 29+ Behemoth that's light, nimble, sporty, and capable. Going to the Funk would be lighter, but less travel and less capable suspension. I've never been fast and there's no hope for that ever happening, so shaving ~a pound off the bike just isn't going to matter in the grand scheme. But losing travel and capability will.

I'll still take them up on that demo when I next make it over there. But I think it's academic at this point.

[coke]

Agreed that the Funk is appealing. I contacted them last year and arranged to demo one next time I'm on the Front Range. Still haven't made it there.

And, if I'm honest with myself, it's probably a silly expenditure for me. I already have a 29+ Behemoth that's light, nimble, sporty, and capable. Going to the Funk would be lighter, but less travel and less capable suspension. I've never been fast and there's no hope for that ever happening, so shaving ~a pound off the bike just isn't going to matter in the grand scheme. But losing travel and capability will.

I'll still take them up on that demo when I next make it over there. But I think it's academic at this point.

I'm actually selling my 29+ behemoth to fund this build. I really love the bike and it does everything I wanted. With the right tires it's surprisingly fast in an xc scenario, and has surpassed everything else I've ridden in slow technical rocky situations. I also had a bad wreck last year where I cut my knee open down to the bone, broke my wrist and shoulder, and severed my ulnar nerve. The behemoth with 29+ tires and eagle gearing was the absolute perfect recovery bike.

Unfortunately, I can't keep that bike and add another.

[mikesee]

I'm actually selling my 29+ behemoth to fund this build. I really love the bike and it does everything I wanted. With the right tires it's surprisingly fast in an xc scenario, and has surpassed everything else I've ridden in slow technical rocky situations. I also had a bad wreck last year where I cut my knee open down to the bone, broke my wrist and shoulder, and severed my ulnar nerve. The behemoth with 29+ tires and eagle gearing was the absolute perfect recovery bike.

Unfortunately, I can't keep that bike and add another.

Size L, right?

I might know someone that wants that bike if you don't already have a buyer.

[coke]

Size L, right?

I might know someone that wants that bike if you don't already have a buyer.

Yes it's a large and strava shows it only has 295 miles (I rarely ride anything other than my SS). I have a local buyer, but if for some reason it falls through I'll message you. Thanks!

[nitrousjunky]

Don't quote me on this, this is based on a very brief discussion I had with Mikesee in the SS forum when he placed an ad for a Lenz Lunchmoney.

I believe Lenz can build the Lunchmoney with a few different tube sizes based on your size and intended use. They also have various rocker/shock configurations for different amounts of travel. It might be worth asking Lenz, and if you do, let us know. I've always been interested.

I'll add that Devin can lower the rear travel amount on the Lunchmoney with his 4" rockers also.

[azjonboy]

So is the Behemoth the Lunch money with 29x3.0 capability? I’ve been thinking of getting a Lenz with 29x3.0 compatibility, but would want the 120 travel variety

[*OneSpeed*]

I've had my eye on a used Milkmoney frame in my size for 6 months now. I love the idea, and want to try it, but can't justify the expense and another bike.

I have been curious for a while now. I also really like the look of the Starling Beady Little Eye. https://www.starlingcycles.com/beady-little-eye/. Love the name, love that it's fillet brazed. (would need to be 29er for me) Again can't justify another toy.

I also have a Kona Hei Hei CR/DL. I thought about putting a tensioner on it last year but just never got around to it. I will make it happen this year. Looking forward to trying it.

[nitrousjunky]

So is the Behemoth the Lunch money with 29x3.0 capability? I’ve been thinking of getting a Lenz with 29x3.0 compatibility, but would want the 120 travel variety

No, both the Behemoth and LunchMoney can be built with his 29+ rear triangle or standard 29" rear triangle. Both bikes share similar geometry and travel, just one is the SS design and one is geared (although the LunchMoney can be ran 1x also).


I've lusted after a MM for years, then the LunchMoney came out and really rev'd my engine. I'll have a 29+ LunchMoney in a year or two.

[cjsb]

An old Klein Palomino, if you can find one, makes a good FS SS.


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[Haroldlikesbikes]

So I was at Interbike the year that the Milkmoney dropped. I was in love. But stupidly I let my friends talk me out of it. Particularly painful as I was working at a shop that moved a few Lenz bikes a year (Hammerhead) and could have gotten a hell of a deal on one. Forever on a rigid SS, this year I finally picked up a used Milkmoney 3.0. Likely one of Mikesees old bikes. It's awesome. Just plain awesome. Coming from a rigid 29'r, custom frame with twitchy XC geo, the old geo milkemoney 3.0 has been fantastic. The suspension is just enough to take the edge off, but obviously will never replace my 5/5 ventana. We've got a lot of chunk here in Austin, the Milkmoney just eats it up.

I already know I want to upgrade it, either to the 4.0 or maybe a lunchmoney. But that is only to get to a taper ht and better dropper post options. For the time being though I am about to lace up a Flow MK3 so I can run a 3" front tire and have a 2.4 in back, making it pretty fat and a junky 27.2 dropper doing a good enough job.

[coke]

Thanks for all the input so far. After discussing with both Funk and Lenz, I've decided to go with a Funk La Ruta 29+ . Lenz said they could build the exact bike I wanted and the price was very reasonable, but the lead time was around 6 months, so that was definitely a factor in my decision.

Still working out the details, but the plan is to have rear clearance for 3" tires and 157 spacing. Fork will be a 34 step cast which should clear both fast rolling 3" tires and aggressive 2.6" tires. To work with both 2.6 & 3" tires, I'm thinking rims with 35 inner width will be a good compromise.

I may have them overbuild the frame a little for some extra strength and stiffness, but it might not be necessary. I usually try to build very light bikes, but for this application I plan to sacrifice a little weight for some added strength. Still expect it to be in the low 20s with 3" tires though

[mikesee]

the plan is to have rear clearance for 3" tires and 157 spacing.

when i chatted with funk about a 29+ last year they wanted to push me toward 157 also. can't remember exactly why, but i wasn't really interested in it.

157 certainly builds a more durable wheel, but once you factor in the lack of dish in a SS wheel, how durable do you need?

i *like* 157 and have been using it (and the 150 that predated it) for more than a decade on geared bikes that are ridden aggressively.

but for your build? boost builds a plenty durable wheel for SS use, and it's a good chunk lighter. put differently, i have yet to see a 157 hub that's within 3 ounces of a similar boost hub.

funk said they'd do boost if i wanted.

[coke]

when i chatted with funk about a 29+ last year they wanted to push me toward 157 also. can't remember exactly why, but i wasn't really interested in it.

157 certainly builds a more durable wheel, but once you factor in the lack of dish in a SS wheel, how durable do you need?

i *like* 157 and have been using it (and the 150 that predated it) for more than a decade on geared bikes that are ridden aggressively.

but for your build? boost builds a plenty durable wheel for SS use, and it's a good chunk lighter. put differently, i have yet to see a 157 hub that's within 3 ounces of a similar boost hub.

funk said they'd do boost if i wanted.

My primary decision for 157 is that I have 2 other 157 bikes. I like having the ability to swap parts. A couple weeks ago for example, I found my next SL crank insert was broken the day before a race. I was able to take the crank off my other bike though and make the race.

Funk says 157 allows a slightly shorter chainstay.

I plan to use the new I9 Hubs. Their website shows 286g for 148 and 291g for 157. I assume that's correct.

As far as stiffness of the 157,I really don't know if it makes a difference for me. My Lenz Behemoth had a 142 rear and I don't recall any issues.

Also, I will use a normal hub instead of singlespeed. In case of an injury or for resale purposes, I need the ability to add a cassette. As of yesterday, I no longer own a geared mountain bike