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Thread: Kona Cowan FS

  1. #1
    What Would Happen?
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    Kona Cowan FS

    My bank account is waiting for an order form:

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    Wow, that's HOT!
    Intended purpose? Please tell me it's 4X racing...
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  3. #3
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    Any idea on availability or rear wheel travel?

    I think this would be the perfect compliment for my Unit.
    death is a star.

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    That's for Dirt Jumping. We have the Howler for 4x.

    Cheers,
    Joe.

  5. #5
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    Joe,

    What will be the difference between the two?
    death is a star.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by futonrvltnst
    Joe,

    What will be the difference between the two?
    The Cowan pivots around the bottom bracket a-la the A to keep the chain tension as the bike moves through the travel.

    The Howler is going to have a coil shock as well. There's photos out there somewhere, i'm sure.

    Cheers,
    Joe.

  7. #7
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    So what make this a mountainbike MR. Kowen ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    That's for Dirt Jumping. We have the Howler for 4x.

    Cheers,
    Joe.
    Ok
    Had to ask , Mr Kowen
    What makes this a mountain bike ?
    It's a full sup single speed , that you run a gyro and pegs on ?? WTF
    Sounds like a BMX DJ bike in sheeps clothing .

    How is this more of a mountainbike that a 24" hardtail with 9 gears ,chainguide and duel disk !
    The only reason I ask is lately you have been coming off in the mags as the self appointed authority of what a mountain bike should be these days !

    BTW , what give's you the right to define what a mountain bike is anyway .... who do you think you are Gary Fisher ?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    Ok
    Had to ask , Mr Kowen
    What makes this a mountain bike ?
    It's a full sup single speed , that you run a gyro and pegs on ?? WTF
    Sounds like a BMX DJ bike in sheeps clothing .

    How is this more of a mountainbike that a 24" hardtail with 9 gears ,chainguide and duel disk !
    The only reason I ask is lately you have been coming off in the mags as the self appointed authority of what a mountain bike should be these days !

    BTW , what give's you the right to define what a mountain bike is anyway .... who do you think you are Gary Fisher ?
    Cowan isn't Gary Fisher (thankfully) he's just another bike geek like the rest of us, that really likes to ride bikes, and has been able to make a craeer out of it. BMX bikes have 20" wheels, this has 26". This also has no pegs, though that's a pretty cool idea, and something i'd like to look into.
    Sorry for the confusion, i didn't want anyone to think we were making a dual suspenion 20" bike, though that does sound interesting...

    Joe.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Cowan isn't Gary Fisher (thankfully) he's just another bike geek like the rest of us, that really likes to ride bikes, and has been able to make a craeer out of it. BMX bikes have 20" wheels, this has 26". This also has no pegs, though that's a pretty cool idea, and something i'd like to look into.
    Sorry for the confusion, i didn't want anyone to think we were making a dual suspenion 20" bike, though that does sound interesting...

    Joe.
    Nice way of beating around the bush .....

    John Cowen made a public statement in Decline magazine stating that bikes with 24" wheels aren't mountain bikes ! and the people who ride them are doing it to make things easier . This is like the pot calling the kettle black !

    John Cowen ride's a 26" wheeled full sup bike with a gyro and yes PEGS! YES .... I have a pic of JC running pegs on his older bear frame .
    To me this seems like he has taken a BMX bike and converted it to be easier to jump ( IE: suspension = landing gear ) Then why use a gyro or even bother to put gyro tabs on a " TRUE " MTB frame ? seems like your trying to make it a bmx bike ??

    For such a public figure as John Cowen with ties to major sponsors in this industry
    to come out a make such a asinine statement like that about wheel size seems like he is trying to hide HIS own insecurities of what he is riding ?
    My question why does he feel the need to oppress every kid who likes to jump or ride street on a 24" wheels bike ?

    If my whip is rolling on 24's why do I have to sit at the back of the bus ?
    When JC is doing everything he can to make his bike a BMX , telling everyone "OH it's a real mountain bike "
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    That's for Dirt Jumping. We have the Howler for 4x.

    Cheers,
    Joe.
    Joe,

    Curiously, what ever happened to the A? I could have used one this weekend after my solo 24 on my SS (race report, if anyone is curious).
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  11. #11
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    I don't want to start some p.ss.ng match here, as you obviosuly have some very strong opnions. About Mr. John Cowan.
    I personally like 24" wheels, my buddy uses them to ride street, though i've never heard him call it a whip... and i have a 24" cruiser bmx.
    And ride the back of the bus? Please don't try and relate this into some sort of Rosa Parks analogy, i hardly think it's fitting.

    Joe.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1speed_Mike
    Joe,

    Curiously, what ever happened to the A? I could have used one this weekend after my solo 24 on my SS (race report, if anyone is curious).
    We're still making the A. It will be out around the same time as the other frames, and will have the same suspension design as what is on the Cowan FS pictured above.
    Cheers,
    Joe.

  13. #13
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    A is in the Framshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    We're still making the A. It will be out around the same time as the other frames, and will have the same suspension design as what is on the Cowan FS pictured above.
    Cheers,
    Joe.
    The A's just not available (AFAIK) pre-built. You can find it in the frame shop about 2/3 of the way down:
    https://www.konaworld.com/shopping_c...categoryid=202
    The frame is a cool $599.99USD.


  14. #14
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    Thanks. Slick. Anyone tried one?
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  15. #15
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    John Cowen your sponsored rider stared the p*ssing match

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    I don't want to start some p.ss.ng match here, as you obviosuly have some very strong opnions. About Mr. John Cowan.
    I personally like 24" wheels, my buddy uses them to ride street, though i've never heard him call it a whip... and i have a 24" cruiser bmx.
    And ride the back of the bus? Please don't try and relate this into some sort of Rosa Parks analogy, i hardly think it's fitting.

    Joe.
    Joe
    Personally you should not take the brunt of this argument , but John Cowen did make a uneducated and asinine statement in a public magazine that has started quite a stir within the industry . Honestly this is the first time you have herd off this ?
    Persoanlly his comment spoke directly to me as a manufacture of 24" wheels bikes and a few other pro's who ride 24"


    The Rosa Parks comment was directed to the fact the Mr. Cowen has also said 24" wheels bikes should not be allowed to enter MTB jumping contest .

    To my knowledge Chris Donahue has been the most vocal about this up until this point .

    The best outcome for this situation would be for John Cowen to wright a retraction / apology letter to Scott Hart at Decline magazine .

    Or be prepared to be heckled via bull horn at every jumping contest he enters until the end of time .

    BTW I am not the only rider who feels this way , there are about 4 threads on Hcor.net right know bashing John Cowen and his stand on wheel size .

    The Nigel Quarrels interview in Revolution Freeride pretty much sums it up .

    Now I need to go back to building 24" mountain bike frames in my shop .
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  16. #16
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    I saw the article, didn't think too much of it. I don't know if 24" wheels belong more with BMX or Mountain bikes, really. Are there not enough of them to have their own class?

    Is there a big advantage to having a 24" wheel? I don't know, if you make 24" bikes, you tell me. There must be if you feel this strongly about it, so maybe thy shouldn't be in the same competition. I don't know, i'm just throwing ideas out there. I'm not much of a dirt jumper.
    If you want him to write a retraction, write a letter to the editor, and i will tell Cowan the next time i see him. (in about 2 weeks)

    Joe.

  17. #17
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    demo

    Quote Originally Posted by 1speed_Mike
    Thanks. Slick. Anyone tried one?
    I rode one years ago (3) at Interbike. I loved the feel but it's kinda bob-y out of the saddle. Maybe the new SPV shox can help remedy that? Joe? This frame comes up from time to time on this forum but there's never really a big response, for some reason.

    good to see ya back 'round here Mike, nice race report - congrats on the lappage!

    Jeff

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Wow, that's HOT!
    Intended purpose? Please tell me it's 4X racing...
    You can't race 4X on an SS
    Now with more vitriol!

  19. #19
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    Grrr...

    Man, y'all said you weren't going to make one of those for production!

    Yeah, Cowans had Deemax wheels with Pegs and a gyro. I don't see why you couldn't make a replica of his rig.

    That's just sick. Thanks Joe!

    Cheers,

    KavuRider
    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I think he was born around the time of the Chernobyl fallout which would explain a lot.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    Joe
    Personally you should not take the brunt of this argument , but John Cowen did make a uneducated and asinine statement in a public magazine that has started quite a stir within the industry . Honestly this is the first time you have herd off this ?
    Persoanlly his comment spoke directly to me as a manufacture of 24" wheels bikes and a few other pro's who ride 24"


    The Rosa Parks comment was directed to the fact the Mr. Cowen has also said 24" wheels bikes should not be allowed to enter MTB jumping contest .

    To my knowledge Chris Donahue has been the most vocal about this up until this point .

    The best outcome for this situation would be for John Cowen to wright a retraction / apology letter to Scott Hart at Decline magazine .

    Or be prepared to be heckled via bull horn at every jumping contest he enters until the end of time .

    BTW I am not the only rider who feels this way , there are about 4 threads on Hcor.net right know bashing John Cowen and his stand on wheel size .

    The Nigel Quarrels interview in Revolution Freeride pretty much sums it up .

    Now I need to go back to building 24" mountain bike frames in my shop .

    You're kidding, right?

    Sure, Cowan's remark seems kind of stupid - it reminds me of Fuzzy (?) or someone else whining about Straight riding his MTB in a BMX jumping contest a year or two ago, but you act like Cowan walked up and punched your mom or something. Harassing people with bullhorns? Decaf is your friend.

    I've ridden 24s before and think they're great for certain types of riding, but wouldn't dream of flaming some random stranger on a public forum because a 3rd party said something that rubbed me the wrong way.
    Last edited by Godzilla; 06-23-2005 at 12:55 PM.
    Now with more vitriol!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    You can't race 4X on an SS
    ahahahahha. ahem.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jace
    ahahahahha. ahem.
    I could be smoking crack, but I could swear I both heard and read this recently
    Now with more vitriol!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    I could be smoking crack, but I could swear I both heard and read this recently

    Actually, it's quite possible you're right from a regulations standpoint, I'm not up on the current rules for 4x and there may very well be a minimum number of operable gears requirement. I read your statement as saying "no could effectively race with only one gear."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jace
    Actually, it's quite possible you're right from a regulations standpoint, I'm not up on the current rules for 4x and there may very well be a minimum number of operable gears requirement. I read your statement as saying "no could effectively race with only one gear."
    It's all clear now - I don't think that the regulations do allow you to race 4X on an SS - I remember thinking it was odd, but figured it was maybe put into place just to keep 4X from looking too much like BMX (or to keep the BMX guys from beating us at our own game)
    Now with more vitriol!

  25. #25
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    ... and if we just ... Cowan...

    Now you just need to show us how Cowan was able to get pegs on Mavic Deemax wheels. LOL.

    Cheers,

    KavuRider
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I think he was born around the time of the Chernobyl fallout which would explain a lot.

  26. #26
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    Um...

    Evil4bc-

    Is this the quote from Cowan's editorial in March/April 2005 Decline that you are referring to?

    "we propose that in order for a bike to be competition approved, it must utilize at least one of the following three items: 1. Front Brake, 2. 26-inch wheels, 3. Rear Derailleur"

    Since he said "at least one of the following three..." he is obviously not suggesting ruling out 24" bikes for mountain bike jump competitions.

    Perhaps you are referring to some other Decline article that I am not familiar with?

    JMH



    So you see,
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    Nice way of beating around the bush .....

    John Cowen made a public statement in Decline magazine stating that bikes with 24" wheels aren't mountain bikes ! and the people who ride them are doing it to make things easier . This is like the pot calling the kettle black !

    John Cowen ride's a 26" wheeled full sup bike with a gyro and yes PEGS! YES .... I have a pic of JC running pegs on his older bear frame .
    To me this seems like he has taken a BMX bike and converted it to be easier to jump ( IE: suspension = landing gear ) Then why use a gyro or even bother to put gyro tabs on a " TRUE " MTB frame ? seems like your trying to make it a bmx bike ??

    For such a public figure as John Cowen with ties to major sponsors in this industry
    to come out a make such a asinine statement like that about wheel size seems like he is trying to hide HIS own insecurities of what he is riding ?
    My question why does he feel the need to oppress every kid who likes to jump or ride street on a 24" wheels bike ?

    If my whip is rolling on 24's why do I have to sit at the back of the bus ?
    When JC is doing everything he can to make his bike a BMX , telling everyone "OH it's a real mountain bike "

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuddy
    My bank account is waiting for an order form:
    Someone should tell Kona that bikes with a pivot arround the BB don't work. Probably why you don't see many Lenz Sports or Rotecs these days.
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil4bc
    Ok
    Had to ask , Mr Kowen
    What makes this a mountain bike ?
    It's a full sup single speed , that you run a gyro and pegs on ?? WTF
    Sounds like a BMX DJ bike in sheeps clothing .

    How is this more of a mountainbike that a 24" hardtail with 9 gears ,chainguide and duel disk !
    The only reason I ask is lately you have been coming off in the mags as the self appointed authority of what a mountain bike should be these days !

    BTW , what give's you the right to define what a mountain bike is anyway .... who do you think you are Gary Fisher ?
    Who is "Mr. Kowen"?
    Do you use "duel disks" in fights? Are they like throwing stars?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Someone should tell Kona that bikes with a pivot arround the BB don't work. Probably why you don't see many Lenz Sports or Rotecs these days.
    Are you serious?
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1speed_Mike
    Joe,

    Curiously, what ever happened to the A? I could have used one this weekend after my solo 24 on my SS (race report, if anyone is curious).
    You would have ridden the competition?

    Know a guy that rides an A. Likes it a lot. He will be starting the 'Puff on it this Sunday.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla
    It's all clear now - I don't think that the regulations do allow you to race 4X on an SS - I remember thinking it was odd, but figured it was maybe put into place just to keep 4X from looking too much like BMX (or to keep the BMX guys from beating us at our own game)
    When the mtb dual slalom was started they required the bikes to have working rear derailleurs/gears to shutout the use of BMX cruisers.

    IMO 4X is little more than downhill BMX with bigger jumps no matter what bikes they use.
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  32. #32
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    I helped to hand-big our own 4X track from our huge local former waste dump. Indeed lijk a BMX track going down, but the high-speed berms do favor 26" wheels. Even the BMX crowd bring 26" bikes, at least most of them. They call them their "mountain bikes", we call it 4X race bikes.
    My own bike is an overbuilt (not just for me, for everyone) Banshee Morphine I never put gears on. Even overgeared, and being a total rookie with zero BMX experience, I did fine.
    I was unaware of such 4X rules. So a 26" brakeless fixie is cool?

    The speeds reached between jumps and to be held through berms IMO favor larger wheels. I'd love to try a properly designed 29" bike for the job. It might handle the short-radius ramps a bit funny, but could otherwise be fine.

    I visited the Willingen Non-Worldcup 4X a few weekends ago (read all about the fiasco), all participants seem to have 26" bikes, most front suspension, and only a few rear. Most had gears though, road cassettes they hardly ever actually shifted.

    I hit the present (small jumps) BMX track with my 29" bike, and I didn't feel slower than the year before on the Morphine.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    You would have ridden the competition?

    Know a guy that rides an A. Likes it a lot. He will be starting the 'Puff on it this Sunday.
    Unfortunately, the person you're referring to will not be starting on the A after all. He stripped out the bolt on his newfangled XT cranks, and will now be riding the Puff on his Unit.

    I wouldn't want to be the one to tell him that his bike doesn't work, though...

    Cheers, and have fun at that torture event you call a race, Shiggy!
    Joe.

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    You should probably contact Cove Bikes and tell them their bikes don't work then. But be careful because you are going to make all the G-spot riders on the shore angry when they find out they have purchased bikes that don't work.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Someone should tell Kona that bikes with a pivot arround the BB don't work. Probably why you don't see many Lenz Sports or Rotecs these days.

  35. #35
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    John Cowan...

    Why put prongs on a full suspension, which you don't need for dirt jumping, unless you just want to look cool. He couldn't even double peg the quarter in the boneyard at whistler.

    Way to go Brad.

  36. #36
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    my credit card is pretty much jumping out of my wallet in anticipation of this purchase, BUT i gotta know:

    1. is it rohloff speedhub compatible without using a tensioner or the torque bar? (yeah, i ride gears sometimes too. suck it.)
    2. how much travel?
    3. what size fork? (i am guessing anything from 100 to 150)
    4. frame geometry? (hopefully not something totally lame like only 13" seat tubes)
    5. how much dollas?
    Last edited by chuffer; 06-27-2005 at 05:03 AM. Reason: mas preguntas
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    Now you just need to show us how Cowan was able to get pegs on Mavic Deemax wheels. LOL.

    Cheers,

    KavuRider
    hey kavurider,

    have you got a readable version of that image you attached. I would be interested in reading that if you have! thanks.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuffer
    my credit card is pretty much jumping out of my wallet in anticipation of this purchase, BUT i gotta know:

    1. is it rohloff speedhub compatible without using a tensioner or the torque bar? (yeah, i ride gears sometimes too. suck it.)
    2. how much travel?
    3. what size fork? (i am guessing anything from 100 to 150)
    4. frame geometry? (hopefully not something totally lame like only 13" seat tubes)
    5. how much dollas?

    Answers to your questions:
    1. Yes.
    2. 4 inches
    3. That's about right, though i think 150 would ride like crap, even if it would work.
    4. details forthcoming.
    5. details forthcoming.

    Expect answers for 4 and 5 in August, possibly sooner.

    Cheers,
    Joe.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Answers to your questions:
    1. Yes.
    2. 4 inches
    3. That's about right, though i think 150 would ride like crap, even if it would work.
    4. details forthcoming.
    5. details forthcoming.

    Expect answers for 4 and 5 in August, possibly sooner.

    Cheers,
    Joe.
    thanks joe.

    with respect to numbers 4 and 5 we (mtbr) will be the first to know, right?
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  40. #40
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    ... and if we just ... Yeah man...

    Follow the link

    Cheers!

    KavuRider
    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I think he was born around the time of the Chernobyl fallout which would explain a lot.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kadvang
    John Cowan...

    Why put prongs on a full suspension, which you don't need for dirt jumping, unless you just want to look cool. He couldn't even double peg the quarter in the boneyard at whistler.

    Way to go Brad.
    I agree. Cowan is played. He didn't even build those DJ's in his backyard and can be schooled by any of the new players in the DJ scene.
    Fayetteville, AR and N.W.A RePrEsEnT

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Answers to your questions:
    1. Yes.
    2. 4 inches
    3. That's about right, though i think 150 would ride like crap, even if it would work.
    4. details forthcoming.
    5. details forthcoming.

    Expect answers for 4 and 5 in August, possibly sooner.
    Cheers,
    Joe.
    Hey Joe! It's August where are those answers?!?!

    thanks!
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuffer
    Hey Joe! It's August where are those answers?!?!

    thanks!
    Hey Chuffer,
    Check back on the 15th.
    Sorry!
    Joe.

  44. #44
    WAWE
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFWD
    You should probably contact Cove Bikes and tell them their bikes don't work then. But be careful because you are going to make all the G-spot riders on the shore angry when they find out they have purchased bikes that don't work.

    Originally Posted by Thylacine
    Someone should tell Kona that bikes with a pivot arround the BB don't work. Probably why you don't see many Lenz Sports or Rotecs these days.
    Ignore him... Mr. Thylacine has a habit of spewing uneducated and ignorant crap from his keyboard... probably why you don't see many of his bikes these days... or ever.

  45. #45
    Medium?
    Reputation: Fast Eddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aosty
    Ignore him... Mr. Thylacine...probably why you don't see many of his bikes these days... or ever.
    So you're saying the Thylacine is extinct?

  46. #46
    Gone riding
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    Ha!! Not extinct.....just hiding in the bushes ready to rip your legs off!!

  47. #47
    -arschloch-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Hey Chuffer,
    Check back on the 15th.
    Sorry!
    Joe.
    sigh. back to staring at the picture on www.kona.dk
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  48. #48
    -arschloch-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Hey Chuffer,
    Check back on the 15th.
    Sorry!
    Joe.
    ahem....checking calendar....tapping watch.....ahem.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
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    holy crap, for a second there, i thought i was on HCOR.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuffer
    ahem....checking calendar....tapping watch.....ahem.
    Patience, it's a virtue.


    I will let you know everything AS SOON AS I GET THE INFORMATION. It may be later today, it may be later in the week. The way some things go, it may even be next week. I'm not witholding information just to annoy you, you know.

    Cheers,
    Joe.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuffer
    ahem....checking calendar....tapping watch.....ahem.
    it's the bike industry, add 2 weeks on to whatever you were told. if you're waiting on a bike, add 6 weeks.

  52. #52
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Unfortunately, the person you're referring to will not be starting on the A after all. He stripped out the bolt on his newfangled XT cranks, and will now be riding the Puff on his Unit.

    I wouldn't want to be the one to tell him that his bike doesn't work, though...

    Cheers, and have fun at that torture event you call a race, Shiggy!
    Joe.
    Actually I was thinking of another rider (non-Kona staff).
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  53. #53
    -arschloch-
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Inbred
    it's the bike industry, add 2 weeks on to whatever you were told. if you're waiting on a bike, add 6 weeks.
    bwahaa... i work for the government.... in europe! i know all about over-extended deadlines. i've had people get back to me YEARS later on a 'burning' question.... KONA is doing OK.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  54. #54
    -arschloch-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe - Kona
    Patience, it's a virtue.


    I will let you know everything AS SOON AS I GET THE INFORMATION. It may be later today, it may be later in the week. The way some things go, it may even be next week. I'm not witholding information just to annoy you, you know.

    Cheers,
    Joe.
    it's a conspiracy i tell ya....
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  55. #55
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    the time is soon

    Quote Originally Posted by the Inbred
    it's the bike industry, add 2 weeks on to whatever you were told. if you're waiting on a bike, add 6 weeks.

    konaworld.com is offline now, tuesday afternoon. could be in update process right now? lets hope so.

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