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  1. #1
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    Kona Big Unit vs. Santa Cruz Highball vs. ???

    Trying to sell my diSSent and fork. If it sells, I am looking for a new frame to build SS. Has to have sliders and tapered head tube. I'm running a Niner Carbon fork on whatever frame I get. The two that have my attention at the moment are the Big Unit and Highball. Thoughts on these frames? Suggestions for other frames in this price range ($750 max)? I even thought about doing another N9 because I loved how that frame rides, but at the same time I'd like to try something different, and lighter.
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  2. #2
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    i love my unit. ha. but mine is steel. sliding drops are awesome, the frame is stiff near the BB where you want it to be, it's nimble and steers quick, pretty short chainstays. i wouldn't change a thing about it.

    I don't know much about the SC other than they generally make nice stuff. do they make different drop outs or would you run a EBB or eno rear hub or something?

    for me a rigid aluminum bike is too punishing on my bones, mostly my wrists. but if you can take it, more power to you.
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  3. #3
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    If you want lighter, the Highball in aluminum or Big Unit is really it. Just a tad heavier is the Salsa El Mariachi. Never ridden or seen a Big Unit.

    I have a Unit, Karate Monkey and custom frame somewhat designed after the Monkey. They all feel similar. Weights are close, but the custom is about a pound lighter.

    I love them all. Bunch of buddies here ride El Mariachis and love those too.

    Soma Juice is another nice one, but just as heavy as a Monkey and Unit.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENKD29 View Post
    i love my unit. ha. but mine is steel. sliding drops are awesome, the frame is stiff near the BB where you want it to be, it's nimble and steers quick, pretty short chainstays. i wouldn't change a thing about it.

    I don't know much about the SC other than they generally make nice stuff. do they make different drop outs or would you run a EBB or eno rear hub or something?

    for me a rigid aluminum bike is too punishing on my bones, mostly my wrists. but if you can take it, more power to you.
    The way the dropouts are designed on the Al Highball allows for single speed. They will slide so no need for an EBB which I'd like to avoid. I know some have good luck with them, some don't. As far as aluminum...yeah, I don't think it'll be an issue. I ride an aluminum SS now though it has a suspension fork but I do lock it out 99% of the time. I know it's not the same but close enough. I was riding a full rigid steel SS last year and I'll admit, it was dreamy...just so heavy. I think my bike was 28# or something like that. It was a N9 which I'd get another in a heartbeat if it wasn't for that 6+ pound frame. If I found a good enough deal on one...I might still consider another one.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by thickfog View Post
    If you want lighter, the Highball in aluminum or Big Unit is really it. Just a tad heavier is the Salsa El Mariachi. Never ridden or seen a Big Unit.

    I have a Unit, Karate Monkey and custom frame somewhat designed after the Monkey. They all feel similar. Weights are close, but the custom is about a pound lighter.

    I love them all. Bunch of buddies here ride El Mariachis and love those too.

    Soma Juice is another nice one, but just as heavy as a Monkey and Unit.
    Thanks for the suggestions...I'll check them out. I'm not in a huge hurry...just got the fork, trying to sell my diSSent frame and fork so I'll have to wait until they sell before I can pull the trigger on another frame.
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  6. #6
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    The Salsa is heavy....5.7 lbs for a large frame....no fork.

    THe Highball Al is 4.2 lbs for a large.
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  7. #7
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    If you can deal with an EBB the Crave SL is super light and has great geometry. I hear good things about the Superfly SS as well, though I don't know if you can go frame only on that.

  8. #8
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    Not sure I want to deal with an EBB. I'll have to look into them more. I put a message into my local Trek dealer to see about the Superfly though I gotta say...I really, really am NOT digging the color scheme of that bike.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    The Salsa is heavy....5.7 lbs for a large frame....no fork.

    THe Highball Al is 4.2 lbs for a large.
    Thanks for that info. My N9 was around 6.5lbs frame only. Thing was a pig but she sure did ride nice. After tasting the lightweight carbon bike Koolaid...I'm not sure I want to go back to another 28lb bike.
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  10. #10
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    I'm a huge fan of steel frames so my vote goes for the standard Kona Unit frame. I am a little bias though, I settled on the Kona Unit and feel it was made specifically for my body. Something about the Kona geometry just flat out feels natural for me.

  11. #11
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    I have had 0 issues with the EBB on my Carve. It's been solid through about 1000 miles with very little service. Just a thought.

  12. #12
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    I do not currently run my highball as a ss, but love the bike. Built up with gears it weighs in @ 24#
    You can get sliding dropouts, it has threaded bb, and tapered ht. Fun, fast bike!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by khardrunner14 View Post
    I have had 0 issues with the EBB on my Carve. It's been solid through about 1000 miles with very little service. Just a thought.
    he's going to have sliding drops on either frame he chooses so won't need an EBB.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENKD29 View Post
    he's going to have sliding drops on either frame he chooses so won't need an EBB.
    Yeah...between the Highball and Big Unit. But there were some suggestions that would require an EBB which I'm still on the fence about.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAK View Post
    I'm a huge fan of steel frames so my vote goes for the standard Kona Unit frame. I am a little bias though, I settled on the Kona Unit and feel it was made specifically for my body. Something about the Kona geometry just flat out feels natural for me.
    Do you know if the Unit is available frame only? I don't want to buy a complete bike. Also, any idea the weight? I don't want another 6+ pound frame. If that was the case, I'd just get another Nimble 9 because I already know how awesome it is and I wouldn't mind another one...except for the weight.
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  16. #16
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    BTW my Carve (size L) with Easton XC One SS wheel set weighs in at about 22lbs with pedals.

  17. #17
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    I love my Highball SS. Two years and going strong. Compared to Kona Unit SS (2011) it's lighter (duh), stiffer - mostly in good ways (much more efficient stomping on the pedals and secure and in-control through rough stuff). The ride isn't quite as smooth but several 90km rides and one 12hr race and I can honestly say it's far from harsh. My average rides are 3ish hours and 50+km and while wearing good knicks I have no comfort issues whatsoever.
    The swinging dropouts work great. Plus it has sexy curves.

    Cheers, Chris
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  18. #18
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    The Highball is definitely a great looking bike. It's tops on the list as far as aesthetics are concerned. I'm in love with the aqua blue and I think it would look awesome with all my red bits and pieces that are currently on the diSSent. I just wish there was a dealer close...nearest one is 2 hours away.
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  19. #19
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    - whatever you go with, make sure it's Ti......my 29er Ti frame built up into a wonderful 21 lb. bike and could go lower with another set of wheels.........
    Rigid 29er Ti SS / 29er SC Tallboy AL / Paketa Magnesium Road Bike

  20. #20
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    I wish I could...I can't swing the cost of Ti right now. A Ti frame is definitely on the radar though. I mean I could if I saved for longer...I'm just not that patient...lol
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  21. #21
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    - I found my Ti frame brand new on eBay for $550; that said, I waited a LONG time to find that deal and I don't regret the wait......oh, and it's not a chinese knockoff frame - Motobecane Fly Ti 29er.....
    Rigid 29er Ti SS / 29er SC Tallboy AL / Paketa Magnesium Road Bike

  22. #22
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    That's a nice deal and that bike I've heard is pretty sweet despite being a bikesdirect offering. Buddy of mine rode a road version and loved it. I do look from time to time...haven't for a while, maybe I'll see if there's anything on there at the moment.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Do you know if the Unit is available frame only? I don't want to buy a complete bike. Also, any idea the weight? I don't want another 6+ pound frame. If that was the case, I'd just get another Nimble 9 because I already know how awesome it is and I wouldn't mind another one...except for the weight.
    Good question. I am not sure. Though I can't imagine it would be hard to find.

  24. #24
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    Yup. All day long. 525 shipped with a fork too. Not the big unit. Steel unit.

    http://www.bikeman.com/KON-F15UN19.h...54kaAkmK8P8HAQ
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  25. #25
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    I LOVED my HighBall...the tensioning system is awesome, nice geo, etc.

    Highball gets my vote.

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  26. #26
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    Thanks again for all the help. I have thrown the Niner Air 9 and ROS 9 into the mix. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of steel again but nothing set in steel. All I know is, I have a tapered Niner carbon fork that I will be using. I have wheels but depending on the frame, depends on whether I can use them since everything I have is 135mm. I also have everything else so all I really need is the frame and maybe a new rear hub. So many options and no way to see or try anything out. It drives a guy crazy for sure.
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  27. #27
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    ROS 9 is out. Too much frame for what I need. Too heavy and too beefy (non-compliant). Right now the list is in no particular order:

    1. Kona Big Unit
    2. Santa Cruz Highball Al
    3. Niner Air 9
    4. What and see what Canfield has in store for the new Yelli Screamy, announcement next week
    5. Nimble 9, again
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  28. #28
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    Get the Big Unit it sounds like that's what you want. Consider buying it complete (and selling everything but the frame), the 2016's are not far off so you should be able to find one for a steal. I did that with a Unit and after selling the takeoffs the frame was free ;-)

  29. #29
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    I thought the Big Unit was frame only. And yeah, that's what I'm really leaning towards. Only thing is, there's no dealer within 2 hours of me so I have to make some phone calls and see what I can find which sucks...I'd much rather be able to deal local. Guess it is what it is.
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  30. #30
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    No more Big Units At least from Kona. Guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for something that pops up on the internet. Other than ebay, anyone know of any sites that sells Kona frames? I've seen a couple places but nothing in stock in my size (large). I really hate to wait until fall for a 2016 or even July to see what the new ones are offering. At least I have my F29 to ride, even if it's not single speed.
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  31. #31
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    At least I have my F29 to ride, even if it's not single speed.
    Aren't they PF30? Just use a Beer ebb.

  32. #32
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    Yeah, that's an option and I thought about doing that. I could switch it back and forth as needed (my fitness level at the moment...there are times I may need gears)...I definitely want a new bike though...lol...I sold the diSSent. At least this option would get me through until 2016's came out that way I can get back on another dedicated SS.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    No more Big Units At least from Kona. Guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for something that pops up on the internet. Other than ebay, anyone know of any sites that sells Kona frames? I've seen a couple places but nothing in stock in my size (large). I really hate to wait until fall for a 2016 or even July to see what the new ones are offering. At least I have my F29 to ride, even if it's not single speed.
    Bikeman site usually has Big Units as frame only. Just wondering when you ruled out the ROS9 partially as "non-compliant" if you had actually ridden one. I built up single speed with an ROS9 frame and it has a very enjoyable steel ride IMO.

  34. #34
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    That's just from talking to someone that does have some experience with it. Said it was really heavy (just under 7 pounds) and built as an AM frame which makes it pretty stiff (non-compliant). I know aluminum can be harsh too...but if I'm taking a big hit in weight, I want a frame that is going to be plush like my N9 was. And being $900...that's a little more than I'd like to spend on a frame right now.

    And the only one Bikeman has is that mint green frame from last year...not sure how I feel about that color honestly. And it's full price on a 2014 so I'll probably hold off and see what else pops up.
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  35. #35
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    Yeah, that green color is a bit hideous. Got my ROS frame off ebay for half of msrp, barely used. I'd bet the ROS feels more like the N9, coming off of a GT Peace 9R SS, the ROS rear feels more compliant than that. Probably the most fun bike I've ever owned, swapped with a friend on a 26" Chameleon a couple of weeks ago, he was mightily impressed. As always YMMV

  36. #36
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    On One Lurcher, carbon single speed with track ends. I have about 3k miles on mine, a few 6 and 12 hour races and several short XC races with no issues at all. $480 plus tax and shipping.

    https://www.planet-x-usa.com/i/q/FRO...ail-29er-frame

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedrider View Post
    On One Lurcher, carbon single speed with track ends. I have about 3k miles on mine, a few 6 and 12 hour races and several short XC races with no issues at all. $480 plus tax and shipping.

    https://www.planet-x-usa.com/i/q/FRO...ail-29er-frame
    Completely forgot about them. Thanks...I'll check them out.
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  38. #38
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    I know you said EBB might not be what you want, but PricePoint has the SIR9 on sale. $700 for the frame, EBB, maxle, headset, and collar. Just an option

    Niner SIR 9 Frame | Frames | Niner
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  39. #39
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    I really do like my Highball.

    Got a new set of dropouts last week and they seem to have fixed the tire clearance problem. However it is really gonna depend on the the gear that you wanna run.

    For me, 32x21 has a 2.1 Nano pushed up pretty close to the frame. However, with 33x22 it swings back pretty far and looks like a 2.25 will fit without issue, and still have adjustment for chain tension.
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  40. #40
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    Bumping this up. I've narrowed down frames for an upcoming project to Kona Big One or Santa Cruz Highball. Leaning toward the SC right now. Max tire clearance and xc geo are must haves. The Chameleon is also in the mix if I go with 27.5 Just not sure on clearance there.

    Any updates or fresh takes on which one you have ridden and love?

  41. #41
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    Still thoroughly enjoying my Highball.

    Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    Still thoroughly enjoying my Highball.

    Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.
    Thanks. Making a move to alu from many years on a ti frame and a bit concerned about ride being on the harsh side. Wheels will be bigger at 29" and in hopes that offsets some of it.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyChix View Post
    Thanks. Making a move to alu from many years on a ti frame and a bit concerned about ride being on the harsh side. Wheels will be bigger at 29" and in hopes that offsets some of it.
    I went from a steel Salsa El Mariachi to the HB. Initially it was stiffer/harsher ride, but that was with tubed tires. Went to tubeless and it helped take the edge off. The current HB with the 27.2 seat post has a fair amount of give.

    I put a lot of miles on mine. 60-80 mile rides are not uncommon.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    I went from a steel Salsa El Mariachi to the HB. Initially it was stiffer/harsher ride, but that was with tubed tires. Went to tubeless and it helped take the edge off. The current HB with the 27.2 seat post has a fair amount of give.

    I put a lot of miles on mine. 60-80 mile rides are not uncommon.
    Thanks for that feedback. I'll be running tubeless. The carbon highball is an option but if I don't need to spend that kind of money for "give" I'd rather get the aluminum one and save the money : ) 60-80 miles on that is nice!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyChix View Post
    The carbon highball is an option but if I don't need to spend that kind of money for "give"
    Yeah, spending $1K+ for the "give" of carbon over aluminum is a risky proposition. Do they even sell the carbon HB as a SS?

    I briefly owned an older Big Unit, and always admired the HB. If it was me, the decision would largely be based on the different geos: 69/74 vs 70.5/72.5.

    Do you plan on running a 100mm fork?
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryder1 View Post
    Yeah, spending $1K+ for the "give" of carbon over aluminum is a risky proposition. Do they even sell the carbon HB as a SS?

    I briefly owned an older Big Unit, and always admired the HB. If it was me, the decision would largely be based on the different geos: 69/74 vs 70.5/72.5.

    Do you plan on running a 100mm fork?

    Carbon HB is geared only. Unless you want to run a tensioner.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryder1 View Post
    Yeah, spending $1K+ for the "give" of carbon over aluminum is a risky proposition. Do they even sell the carbon HB as a SS?

    I briefly owned an older Big Unit, and always admired the HB. If it was me, the decision would largely be based on the different geos: 69/74 vs 70.5/72.5.

    Do you plan on running a 100mm fork?
    Yes, 100 travel. Do want to have option of SS and geared.
    Also interested in a pic of the spacing in the rear chain stays to get an idea if a 27.5x2.8 could fit in the alu HB.
    Last edited by SpeedyChix; 09-28-2016 at 05:50 AM.

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