Keep Humans Out Of Nature! (OT)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Keep Humans Out Of Nature! (OT)

    I'm all for enjoying nature, and I enjoy hiking as much as the next guy, but I see now what happens when "respect for nature" is taken too far. I ran across some posts by Mike Vandeman in the alt-mountain bike thread that JD posted recently. Here's a snip from Mike's website:

    "The last race was held last September 23. I visited the park four days later, to document the damage that was done to the park. The race course was twenty miles long, so I knew I couldn't possibly hike it in a day. Consequently I borrowed a friend's mountain bike. It was lucky that I did, because I discovered that, contrary to what the mountain bikers claim, riding a bike off of paved roads is no fun at all! I rode only on fire roads, but even there, I was continually subject to violent jarring, due to the hoof- and tire-pocked "washboard" surface of the road. (I know that there are bikes with a so-called "suspension", but there is no way to make a ride like that "smooth" or enjoyable.)
    Not only was the ride physically very unpleasant, but having to continually watch the trail and try to control the bike meant that it was impossible to enjoy the scenery or listen to the subtle sounds of nature. So much for the mountain bikers' claims that they use bikes to "enjoy nature"!"

    Here's Mike's website: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/

    As you'd expect, he doesn't have many friends on the newsgroup.

    Thoughts?
    -Porkchop

  2. #2
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBnJ
    I'm all for enjoying nature, and I enjoy hiking as much as the next guy, but I see now what happens when "respect for nature" is taken too far. I ran across some posts by Mike Vandeman in the alt-mountain bike thread that JD posted recently. Here's a snip from Mike's website:

    "The last race was held last September 23. I visited the park four days later, to document the damage that was done to the park. The race course was twenty miles long, so I knew I couldn't possibly hike it in a day. Consequently I borrowed a friend's mountain bike. It was lucky that I did, because I discovered that, contrary to what the mountain bikers claim, riding a bike off of paved roads is no fun at all! I rode only on fire roads, but even there, I was continually subject to violent jarring, due to the hoof- and tire-pocked "washboard" surface of the road. (I know that there are bikes with a so-called "suspension", but there is no way to make a ride like that "smooth" or enjoyable.)
    Not only was the ride physically very unpleasant, but having to continually watch the trail and try to control the bike meant that it was impossible to enjoy the scenery or listen to the subtle sounds of nature. So much for the mountain bikers' claims that they use bikes to "enjoy nature"!"


    As you'd expect, he doesn't have many friends on the newsgroup.

    Thoughts?
    Guys like this are not worth your time responding to. They are looking for reasons to dis mtbing. Just drop it. Go ride and do trail work.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  3. #3
    beer *****es n' bikes
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    Wow that ubelievable. I mean just because he didn't enjoy it, obviously no one else could. I don't ride to observe nature necessarily, but it does feel great to be out in nature and catching the occasional glimpse of a deer, armadillo, eagle, vulture, owl, etc... Its like an added bonus to the ride which is just gorgeous as you're zipping down a line of trees with the shadows falling across you making you feel like you've hit warp 9 as you hit the pockets of sunlight in between.

    I'll stop now. But seriously I think that guy is just a troll.
    bike dude, velocity employee (this is my personal account)

  4. #4
    mtbr member
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    No good

    Vandeman has been an activist for nature for years. At least 4 years I know of; I used to hang out on alt-mountain bike then. Don't bother responding or dealing with him in any way, he is a completely irrational and pig headed man who listens to no reason. How he managed to get a PhD is beyond me. He is completely and uttlery against mountain biking in any way shape or form and that he even stradled a mountain bike much less rode it is quite outside of his character...

    --Billy


    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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  5. #5
    viva la v-brakes!
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    Ignore MV

    Mike Vandema is just some guy with a lot of hate in his heart which he vents at mountain bikers. His arguments are not sound or logical. I used to belive he just cared about wild lands a lot, but not I'm sure he hates mountain bikes much more then he loves nature.

    Ignore him.

    Don't waste your time discussing him.
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  6. #6
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    Scary

    My question is how do you have a rational discussion with some one like Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D. when he posts things like this:

    Mountain Biking as an Addiction
    Recently I suddenly realized why this pattern seemed so familiar: they act exactly like the drug addicts that I knew when I worked with Synanon Foundation! They demonstrate the same willingness to take enormous risks, just to continue their "habit". They risk their image, their job, their relationships, their freedom, even their life, just to continue seeking the ultimate "high". Many subscribe to mountain biking mailing lists at work, risking losing their job. Thousands risk arrest and fines for riding illegally or even building illegal trails on public and private land. The "Sedona Five" took advantage of a temporary closure of Grand Canyon National Park to ride down the North Kaibab Trail, which is closed to bikes (and got arrested). Taking serious risks to continue a habit of doubtful value is the best indicator of a true addiction. In mountain biking newsgroups they exchange stories about their latest "high" (riding "sweet singletrack"), with extra points given for experiences that were dangerous, illegal, or both.

    No matter what you say he is going to stick his fingers in his ears and shout "NA,NA,NA" to drown you out. No matter how many hours of trail maintance you do it will never be good enough for him. People of his thought process believe that humanity is a plague upon the earth and "mother nature" would be better off if she just wiped us all out. Instead of yelling, screaming, and posting silly rants comparing mountain bikers to drug addicts, why doesn't he sit down and have meaningful dialog with the mountain biker in the area. There is plenty of wilderness in this country. The U.S. probably goes farther than a any other country in the world to try to protect wilderness.
    I whole heartly agree that we need a lot of wilderness that doesn't need mountain biking. But at the same we can have multi-use trails that every one can use. Here in Mississippi the trials that I ride in the local state park a used mostly by mountain bikers. We built these trails, maintain these trails, and the rangers are very happy that that we are using land that other wise have been used to hunt on.
    Thankfully I think Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D is in the minority. But it is a stroing minority so be nice to hikers. They might be the next Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D.

  7. #7
    don't try this at home
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    repeat ignore MV

    he's been anti-mtb for the past 10 years if not longer on those boards. i'm really surprised he even got on a bike off the paved road.

    he's probably the longest term troll on those boards.

    definitely not worth your time. really not even worth this post warning you it's not worth your time.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
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    He's just one of those people for whom any human activity that he doesn't agree with must be evil.

  9. #9
    Birdman aka JMJ
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    When hikers go barefoot, I'll throw away my MTB

    If hikers are all about being one with nature, how come you NEVER see any barefoot hikers? We all need mechanical assistance to make out outdoors experience more enjoyable, it woould seem.

    JMJ

  10. #10
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    that guy...

    that guy's a pu s s y! to me that comment was like a hard core roadie who hates mountain bikes. My old boss from Adventure Sports Online was an avid mtb hater. He claimed that bikes were not meant to go off road because they hurt nature. whatever dood. Might as well be an HBFK.

    I love mtb riding because it's exciting, and I like getting my kicks in that way. There's so much land out there that's meant to be used. He implies that riding a mountain bike is not enjoyable...want to make it not enjoyable, he shoud stick his wanker between the chain and chainring...yeah.

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