Insertion/Mating: Lube or not lube your spindle?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    The Duuude, man...
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    Insertion/Mating: Lube or not lube your spindle?

    I've always been of the lube-it camp.

    But I'm about to install a Phil Wood BB for use with my WI ENO crankset, and I've had it suggested that I should insert/mate the two DRY.

    Por Favor'?
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  2. #2
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    Thread title is giving me a chubby
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  3. #3
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    I always lube up. Have had a few sticky's without lube and that's no fun.

    Watch out with the torque cause too much torque will damage the mating surfaces...

  4. #4
    Rocket Boy
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    Just replaced a Truvativ splined BB and their manual says to use a "liberal" amount of grease. Whatever amount of grease liberals use, you should use I guess!

    Arby

  5. #5
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    I've always been of the lube-it camp.

    But I'm about to install a Phil Wood BB for use with my WI ENO crankset, and I've had it suggested that I should insert/mate the two DRY.

    Por Favor'?
    WI says grease it.

    I have always been in the no grease on square taper camp, though.
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  6. #6
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    Just a little grease for me because I like a tight fit but don't want it to get stuck.

  7. #7
    AZ
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    Lube it .

  8. #8
    holding back the darkness
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    Far better to have too much lube than not enough....
    wait... which forum is this?
    Gotta be careful switching between multiple browser windows....

  9. #9
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
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    insertion?...lube?....mating?....

    this thread is useless without pics.....
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  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    yep

    Lube it. I have the same set up, and was worried too, but no issues at all with grease. Has something to do with the crankset, I think my LBS mech. said it was because the WI arms are forged....if my memory serves me correct.

  12. #12
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    40 years of square taper cranksets and never lubed one of 'em. Never a problem, and based on such perfect experience I don't intend to begin lubing any of my square taper spindles now (~9 bike with 'em).

    The reason (was told this way back in the early '70s) to avoid lube is that the shallow wedge of the tapered spindle could split the arm if the fixing bolt is over-torqued, and grease would increase the likelihood of this happening.

    Newer square taper cranks come with instructions to lube, so perhaps modern metal crafting techniques have rendered stronger materials.

    In the end, I doubt it matters much either way. And that's why I'll continue to do what's always worked so well for me -- no lube.

    --Sparty
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  13. #13
    Retro Grouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    The reason (was told this way back in the early '70s) to avoid lube is that the shallow wedge of the tapered spindle could split the arm if the fixing bolt is over-torqued, and grease would increase the likelihood of this happening.

    In the end, I doubt it matters much either way. And that's why I'll continue to do what's always worked so well for me -- no lube.

    --Sparty
    I've yet to ever see a split arm because grease was used. OTOH, I'll go with Sparty on ST; no lube. However on splined I say use a small amount of what thrills ya.
    Just one more rep and I get the toaster!

  14. #14
    Down South Yooper
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka brad
    I've yet to ever see a split arm because grease was used. OTOH, I'll go with Sparty on ST; no lube. However on splined I say use a small amount of what thrills ya.
    +This, have never lubed square tapers. Lube up the splined ones though..

    If they're on there long enough to freeze up, you've probably got other maintenance issues as well.

    Plum
    This post is in 3B, three beers and it looks good eh!

  15. #15
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    Even if lubing, don't over do it! Its just a film of lube, gresy fingers are enough...
    "I love being on a bike. It helps me feel free. I get it from my dad", by Guillaume Blanchet

  16. #16
    Ovaries on the Outside
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    I lube- even square tapered, but I only have around 3, so I'm changing to what Sparty said.

  17. #17
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    achieving proper torque values without material deformation may require using grease, I'd be more inclined to use it for that reason alone, and on my and client bikes I always use some, thin film but completely cover all matings surfaces/threads

    (had too many jokes about the thread title to bother posting them all, left that alone)
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  18. #18
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    I work on the principle that if I would ever want to remove it, then grease it.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  19. #19
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    Thin grease for consistency, IMO.

    If you are installing without a torque wrench I would guess that the variations in you would be bigger than the variations in torque that could damage a crank arm.

    If you are using a torque wrench I would think some grease would increase the repeatability and accuracy.

  20. #20
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    Agreed with Shiggy. Had problems years ago with Campagnolo cranks that seated until the inner ring rubbed the stays. Road bikes, before MTB.

    My modus operendi=
    Square taper - no lube.
    Splined - yes lube.

    However, Phil Wood and White Industries both say to lube the interface. Scares me, but I will follow mfg. recommendations. I have a friend who recently installed a PW BB and WI crank, and torqued to spec., and it takes about an 1/8 turn on the crank bolts back to torque every ride. It has been three weeks now. Worried I am.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus

    However, Phil Wood and White Industries both say to lube the interface. Scares me, but I will follow mfg. recommendations. I have a friend who recently installed a PW BB and WI crank, and torqued to spec., and it takes about an 1/8 turn on the crank bolts back to torque every ride. It has been three weeks now. Worried I am.
    Thats how you can ruin a square taper from over tightening. My rule is tighten them, go bounce around on the the cranks for a minute or two. Pull the bolts, apply blue locktite, retighten...let be. Grease on the taper shouldn't be scary.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/i...ng-cranks.html (warning: opinions)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    I work on the principle that if I would ever want to remove it, then grease it.
    Me, too. The one exception being square taper cranks.

    Now, if they ever start making ST BBs with aluminum spindles... all bets are off.

    --Sparty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  23. #23
    trail rat
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckUni
    Thats how you can ruin a square taper from over tightening. My rule is tighten them, go bounce around on the the cranks for a minute or two. Pull the bolts, apply blue locktite, retighten...let be. Grease on the taper shouldn't be scary.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/i...ng-cranks.html (warning: opinions)
    Following what the Phil Wood guy said to my friend on the phone, "tighten with torque wrench to spec. After each ride, tighten to spec until it stays, remove bolts and loctite, torque to spec". We are using a torque wrench as stated. By your definition, that is over tightening? He called Phil Wood twice to make sure, and got the same instructions both times.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  24. #24
    Really I am that slow
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    With Sparty and shiggs on this one..

    Square no lube.... splines yes

    always seem to have problems removing squares that have been lubed...
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Following what the Phil Wood guy said to my friend on the phone, "tighten with torque wrench to spec. After each ride, tighten to spec until it stays, remove bolts and loctite, torque to spec". We are using a torque wrench as stated. By your definition, that is over tightening? He called Phil Wood twice to make sure, and got the same instructions both times.
    I've heard from a few people, that yes, it is over tightening. I have a white ind crank that is almost bottomed out of the taper from using this method a while ago. Since then I have always tightened to spec, went out and bounced around on the cranks, both left and right foot forward....then tightened to spec once more (maybe twice with brand new cranks) with loctite.

    Haven't had a single problem yet (YMMV), but also know people that will use the crank it till it stops method. I'd email WI to see what they say.

    To me the Brandt reasoning makes sense, but there are many different opinions on this. All my bikes are square taper too.

  26. #26
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    Sheldon says that greasing the taper can cause the crank to go on further than expected and expand the taper. If WI recommends greasing that I guess I would. Phils have a taper that somehow locks the arm on when it hurts the correct insertion point. I've been a fan of using anti-sieze on my Shimano square tapers because they don't have a coating and rust.

  27. #27
    Jason
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    I like to use just a bit of astroglide... Oh wait. What?

    Seriously, The last few square tapers I installed I used a bit of anti-seize to keep things loose for easy removal. I've only installed one external bearing bb so far. The instructions didn't call for lube of any sort but I used some anti-seize on that also. No problems either way. However, I would say to follow the manufacturers installation instructions.
    Jason
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  28. #28
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    Keep it lubed, easier down the road; no downside to lubing - big downside to not lubing.
    "He was a wise man who invented beer."
    -Plato

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