I'm DONE with Belt Drive!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    I'm DONE with Belt Drive!

    I've been riding a Spot this year, complete with the belt drive. But after a few races, and several hundred miles on the dirt, I am done with it. I never had problems, other than an occasional weird noise; it never slipped or anything; it just worked. But, while racing I kept praying for no problems, no stick in the belt, no rocks in the belt, no slipped rear wheel (alignment is critical!), no rear flat (requiring a timely re-alignment)... I rode these races being totally freaked out the whole time. After my last ride I placed an order with Dan at Homebrewed components and will be switching to chain from here out.

    I think the belt stuff is neat and solved a non-existent problem, but the added tension on the bearings, and the criticality of the alignment does not make this a sound option for remote riding and high-stakes competition. I will be using the parts I'm taking off to make a belt drive around-town / commute bike for my 9 year old son. (cut, grind, braze...)

    -drMP

  2. #2
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    So zero issues but you are getting rid of it because you worry too much about it? I don't think the problem's with the belt, huh.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for sharing your experience. I always wondered what the deal was with belt drive. Now I have a little insight into some of its downsides.
    -- let's ride

  4. #4
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    What are the downsides? Anxiety? Did the added tension on the bearings have any real consequences?

  5. #5
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    WHY i'm done with belts

    yes, anxiety is an issue for sure, but my anxiety is based on my firsthand experiences- i'm a cat 2 road racer and cat 1 mtn racer. My preference is for endurance races (24 hrs, 100 miles, etc), so my anxiety is based on my steed being able to competitively finish these races.

    1) alignment is critical. With the track-style dropouts, and rear-pull tensioners, you have to 'destroy' your alignment to pull off the rear wheel to change a flat. In my experience (with my setup), re-aligning the wheel so the belt tracks take a few minutes- too long for racing in my opinion. PLUS- what about tension? Am i going to carry the tension gauge or just wing-it?

    I'm not sure if an EBB setup would solve this alignment, but would probably be a better design than track-style dropouts. The EBB doesn't let you fine tune (much) the wheel alighment although, that little bit may be needed to keep the belt in place. The XXIX has an EBB but am yet to talk with someone that rides one.

    2) when tensioned correctly per Gates, there is a lot of resistance to back-pedaling- it just doesn't spin freely. (This tension is also present when pedaling forward, of course). Energy is required to overcome this added resistance, which has to come from me, the rider. I'm looking to measure this resistance and calculate the energy loss, since there is no way this is "insignificant" as what Gates says.

    3) From the automative world- too much tension on belts causes premature wear on bearings. See #2. I don't put much into the argument that the belt causing excess wear on the bearings, but there is more tension, but more than riding?? I don't know. Time will tell i guess.

    4) there is a fundamental flaw to the design. The cog (or pulley as Gates calls them) is designed to accept a tooth from the belt. This means that the cog has recesses that can and do hold 'stuff' like dirt, pea gravel, forest duff, etc. In my few hundred miles, I have had to dig pea gravel out of the front cog. I found it by a hard spot in the pedal stroke. I see this as fundamental flaw, especially when compared to the traditional gear/chainring setup.

    5) road side repairs- you catch a stick or a rock and, damage the belt, and you are hosed. If it was a chain, you would fix the chain and keep riding. If you bend the front cog, you are walking. If you damage a chain ring, you back it straight and keep riding. BTDT.

  6. #6
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    Definitely answering a question that was never asked but as always, its different strokes for different folks. I'm turned off by:

    * Additional tension / stress on drive train.
    * Expensive to change ratios
    * Complicated to change ratios (alignment)
    * Complicated to repair flats / swap tires (alignment)

    HOWEVER, its good to have people pushing the envelope.

    DM

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by donmeredith74
    Definitely answering a question that was never asked but as always, its different strokes for different folks. I'm turned off by:

    * Additional tension / stress on drive train.
    * Expensive to change ratios
    * Complicated to change ratios (alignment)
    * Complicated to repair flats / swap tires (alignment)

    HOWEVER, its good to have people pushing the envelope.

    DM
    I agree. I'm done with belt drive, too. And I've never even owned it.

    Solution looking for a problem, IMO.

    --sParty
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  8. #8
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    Glad we flamed belt drives because of the problems it didn't have.

  9. #9
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    I'm through wearing pants. They never fall down when I don't want them to.

  10. #10
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    I'm a cat 3 long pants wearer.

  11. #11
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    Really interesting. I' currently considering a Belt Drive for a custom frame I am having built, the one thing that's holding the project back is I can't decide whether or not to go to Gate's system.

  12. #12
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    Todd at Black Cat did one awhile back (don't ask. he wont do it again). It seems that his swingers would let you drop the wheel out without screwing up alignment or tension.
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  13. #13
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    I downgraded my Spot immediately from belt drive for a couple reasons.

    Immediately was b/c of resale value. I was able to get quality chain/sprocket/cog/spacer kit, a Brooks, and some other random little things for the belt system.
    The bike was for commuting/touring and I did not want to be stuck when touring with a problem. I can buy a chain in a pinch at wal-mart even-most bike shops won't have a belt drive yet. The ratio change is costly it requires a new belt if you change the sprocket or cog.

    If you have swingers or sliders which are becoming more common anyway, then you don't have that tension issue.

    The next generation is coming out that is supposed to shed junk easier and make alignment easier.

    I look forward to it in the future but am going to wait awhile.

  14. #14
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    I saw the new version of the Gates belt drive at the Spot booth at Sea Otter. Supposedly it is much improved over the original version and doesn't require as much tension. The sprockets and cogs were fairly light too. I have no idea when it will be available to the general public, but if it really does solve the main functional issues with belt drive then it might be a viable option.

  15. #15
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    "I think the belt stuff is neat and solved a non-existent problem"

    ding ding, exactly why i'd never ever consider a belt. chains work great and are cheap

  16. #16
    blet drive
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    i am running the xxix and the edd works stinking awsome.. im loving it..
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  17. #17
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    What, exactly, is the problem with chains again?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    What, exactly, is the problem with chains again?
    They're cheap? Adjustable? Man, I hate that!

    What's the deal with the rear triangle on belt-drive bikes? Is there any noticeable difference from conventional frames, what with the opening on a belt drive triangle and whatnot?
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  19. #19
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    I have a spot frame that is a few years old and it has paragon sliders so you never have to worry about alignment of the belt after a tire change. drMP must have a pretty dated frame.

    Regardless of belt or no belt spot makes a really fun steel bike.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by drMP
    4) there is a fundamental flaw to the design. The cog (or pulley as Gates calls them) is designed to accept a tooth from the belt.
    Pedant alert Gates calls them a "pulley" because a pulley is what belts run on/transmit power to. It's the correct terminology. It isn't a "cog" - a cog is designed to mesh with another similar cog (like in a gearbox). Chains don't run on cogs either, they run on sprockets, although chainring is ok too.

    For those of you who are motorcyclists - you don't talk about fitting a new gearbox or rear wheel "cog", do you? No, you call it a sprocket.

    There, I feel better now ! (well, as good as an old curmudgeon can ever feel... )

    And don't start me on the whole calling suspension forks "shocks" thing

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    What, exactly, is the problem with chains again?
    What, exactly is the problem with five bolt cranks again? Or square taper bb? Or 25.4 clamps? I think there are a ton of things that have changed that arguably don't make a difference.

    Chains are pretty great and they are easy-peasy. Belt drive does has some charms chains will never have.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    What, exactly is the problem with...square taper bb?
    They kill crank arms.

  23. #23
    blet drive
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    inregards to bashing the front ring, is there not a bash guard out there to protect it? or will a normal bash ring not fit for some reason?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy R
    Pedant alert Gates calls them a "pulley" because a pulley is what belts run on/transmit power to. It's the correct terminology. It isn't a "cog" - a cog is designed to mesh with another similar cog (like in a gearbox). Chains don't run on cogs either, they run on sprockets, although chainring is ok too.

    For those of you who are motorcyclists - you don't talk about fitting a new gearbox or rear wheel "cog", do you? No, you call it a sprocket.

    There, I feel better now ! (well, as good as an old curmudgeon can ever feel... )

    And don't start me on the whole calling suspension forks "shocks" thing
    Andy, I'm SOOOOO there with ya!

    I hate when people say "front fork." I mean... really. Yeah, front. Right. Got that.

    Or "front shock." Or even just "shock" when they're talking about their fork. It's not a shock. A shock is at the back of the bike. Its a suspension fork.

    And it's a FORK. Not FORKS.

    Little stuff that's not worth mentioning but you started it so... there it is.

    As for sprockets and cogs... well, I know I'm guilty but just as I forgive those who sin against the lexicon, I hope others will forgive my sins. I call the rear sprocket a cog even though I know it's wrong.

    Please forgive me.

    --sParty
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus

    Please forgive me.

    --sParty
    I think that it's me that should be asking forgiveness for having hijacked another thread.

    Sorry

  26. #26
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    You need to look at the at the Spot Rocker. They've eliminated the tensioners and went with slider/droupouts. Once you set the belt tension you can remove the rear wheel without having to reset the tension. It works great. I rode a Spot Longboard with tensioners for 3 seasons and just got the new Rocker frame and it's the best money I've spent on my bike in a long time. I know Vantana makes a similar frame and so does Blacksheep (if you have the dough).
    Here is another cool thing, Gates is coming out with a new belt design that includes a center track on the pullies so alignment will be lesss of an issue. I can't wait to get that set up. They said it will be out sometime in May.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Cheswick
    You need to look at the at the Spot Rocker. They've eliminated the tensioners and went with slider/droupouts. ...
    How is the sliding dropout not a tensioning system?

    That's not intended as a smartass comment... I honestly don't understand. Thanks.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    How is the sliding dropout not a tensioning system?

    That's not intended as a smartass comment... I honestly don't understand. Thanks.

    --sParty
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it wasn't a tensioner. It's just that the old tensioners on the Longboard, after they were set, relied on the quick release (or whatever kind of skewer) to hold the whole thing in place. Now, with the "new" design, the two work independently.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    They kill crank arms.
    You know how to install one, right? They are the only spindles that have always worked for me...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    You know how to install one, right?
    Oh yes, but ridden even once when they're not completely tight, and it's just a matter of time until they die. I've killed several ST arms, and at least one Octolink arm. I'm never going to kill an external crankset's arm though.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Oh yes, but ridden even once when they're not completely tight, and it's just a matter of time until they die. ...
    I hate to admit this is true, but at this point I must.

    After using square taper cranks for 40 years, I've discovered two arms within my fleet that have bottomed out on the spindle (after several years of hard use). They're 195mm arms and I weigh ~220 geared up. I believe doing drops (even relatively insignificant drops) and landing all my weight on those long levers have finally allowed the damage to manifest itself.

    Between the long levers and my weight & riding style, there's just too much stress on the square taper design.

    Shame. I don't think there's anything wrong with ST for road use (other than weight) and perhaps even "normal" arm length off-road use... or for lighter riders for that matter. But I can't deny what's happened in my case. Cost of repair = $220. Damn.

    So I've taken a leap of faith and invested in a set of custom outboard bearing 195mm cranks, sight unseen. They should arrive in a couple weeks... I'll post photos when they do. Meanwhile, another $600 gone.

    --sParty

    P.S. For the record I never rode my ST arms less than completely tight... I simply wore them out.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy R
    Pedant alert
    ... - a cog is designed to mesh with another similar cog (like in a gearbox). Chains don't run on cogs either, they run on sprockets,
    Technically a "cog" is one teeth on a gear wheel or sprocket.

    cog (n) 1. (Engineering / Mechanical Engineering) any of the teeth or projections on the rim of a gearwheel or sprocket

    Just to be more pedantic...

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Oh yes, but ridden even once when they're not completely tight, and it's just a matter of time until they die. I've killed several ST arms, and at least one Octolink arm. I'm never going to kill an external crankset's arm though.
    I have several octalinks and whatever FSA calls their system. They are pretty good, but I have one that gets loose way too often and I've had an external that had the same problem. At that point I went back to square taper. Way cheaper, works as good/better.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsdoable
    Technically a "cog" is one teeth on a gear wheel or sprocket.

    cog (n) 1. (Engineering / Mechanical Engineering) any of the teeth or projections on the rim of a gearwheel or sprocket

    Just to be more pedantic...
    To bring it full circle, language is constantly changing. "Cog" is exactly how it is used on Homebrewed Components webpage and has been for years. Stating otherwise is like getting pissed that someone doesn't use "thou" and "thee."

  35. #35
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    Spot Kobe Slider

    Here is the new kobe Slider on my SPOT ti Rocker. Works perfect. No need to tension the belt when removing the wheel. Can also switch to a regular drop out and run gears.

    I have been super happy with the belt.

    Let me get this straight...you are trashing the belt drive when it never gave you any problems, it was only your anxiety?

    I am glad you let us all know what cat racer you are, that really helps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I'm DONE with Belt Drive!-spot-slider.jpg  


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by chpfly
    I am glad you let us all know what cat racer you are, that really helps.
    i think he was just stating it so we could tell that he was serious about biking. the time and effort he puts in training and whatnot could be spoiled by unreliable equipment. not worth dealing with the unknown in his opinion.

    i happen to agree with him.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chpfly
    Here is the new kobe Slider on my SPOT ti Rocker. Works perfect. No need to tension the belt when removing the wheel. Can also switch to a regular drop out and run gears.

    I have been super happy with the belt.

    Let me get this straight...you are trashing the belt drive when it never gave you any problems, it was only your anxiety?

    I am glad you let us all know what cat racer you are, that really helps.
    that looks nice
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    I have several octalinks and whatever FSA calls their system. They are pretty good, but I have one that gets loose way too often and I've had an external that had the same problem. At that point I went back to square taper. Way cheaper, works as good/better.
    I should have said the good external crankset system is one where the arm is pinched into the axle. An external which just uses a big bolt to hold the arm on can absolutely loosen.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr45h
    i think he was just stating it so we could tell that he was serious about biking. the time and effort he puts in training and whatnot could be spoiled by unreliable equipment. not worth dealing with the unknown in his opinion.

    i happen to agree with him.
    Yup, I read it as though he were just giving us a frame of reference from whence to understand his situation. Sounds like he has at least a mostly valid reason for switching back to chain.


    I still want to try some belt action one of these days.

  40. #40
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    What problem is the belt drive supposed to solve, anyway? I'm asking seriously. Is it weight? Reliability?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godless Communist
    What problem is the belt drive supposed to solve, anyway? I'm asking seriously. Is it weight? Reliability?
    No lube required.

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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    No lube required.

    --sParty
    That's what she said.

  43. #43
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    A flat tire will pretty much ruin your race regardless of what type of drivetrain you have. That concern might be better relieved by going tubeless and running a reliable rear tire.

    That said, anything that makes ride or race worry-free is ok in my book even if it's purely mental. Besides, the OP and others have legitimate beefs with the belt drive other than the worry-factor, so welcome back to the chain world ex-belties!
    "I like skinny jeans. Sometimes I wear them to the mall to get an Orange Julius." -Chim Chim

  44. #44
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by itsdoable
    Technically a "cog" is one teeth on a gear wheel or sprocket.

    cog (n) 1. (Engineering / Mechanical Engineering) any of the teeth or projections on the rim of a gearwheel or sprocket

    Just to be more pedantic...

    "One of a series of teeth, as on the rim of a wheel or gear, whose engagement transmits successive motive force to a corresponding wheel or gear" - ie not to the rollers of a chain.

    But this is all about the use of the correct technical engineering term - no way is it comparable with the evolution of language and the use of out dated words like "thee" or "thou".
    I'm going to stop hijacking the OP's thread now.......

  45. #45
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    ^^^

    Don't leave now! Tell us about chain "stretch"... ~
    "I like skinny jeans. Sometimes I wear them to the mall to get an Orange Julius." -Chim Chim

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy R
    But this is all about the use of the correct technical engineering term - no way is it comparable with the evolution of language and the use of out dated words like "thee" or "thou".
    It is completely comparable because 'technical engineering terms' have the usage they do because of historical circumstance, taking on a particular semantic content depending on context, speaker, and audience - just like every other word. 'Cog' has a particular meaning in an engineering context, but woop-de-do. 'Technical' doesn't mean 'has a greater connection to its referent' and the use of technical terms doesn't make what's said 'more right', it makes it, as has been said, 'more pedantic'.

    Also, "I'll stop hijacking the thread now" is "I hope l get the last word".

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastCoast
    It is completely comparable because 'technical engineering terms' have the usage they do because of historical circumstance, taking on a particular semantic content depending on context, speaker, and audience - just like every other word. 'Cog' has a particular meaning in an engineering context, but woop-de-do. 'Technical' doesn't mean 'has a greater connection to its referent' and the use of technical terms doesn't make what's said 'more right', it makes it, as has been said, 'more pedantic'.

    Also, "I'll stop hijacking the thread now" is "I hope l get the last word".
    You obviously don't know Andy very well. I don't know him well either, but I obviously know him better than you do.

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  48. #48
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    im gonna start hi-jacking the thread soon, i swear...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    You obviously don't know Andy very well. I don't know him well either, but I obviously know him better than you do.

    --sParty
    Good for you! That's awesome!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastCoast
    Good for you! That's awesome!
    Yeah, it's pretty awesome. It rocks to be me. Thanks for the recognition. Autographs after the show.

    --sParty
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  51. #51
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    No, I won't

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastCoast
    - just like every other word. 'Cog' has a particular meaning in an engineering context, but woop-de-do. 'Technical' doesn't mean 'has a greater connection to its referent' and the use of technical terms doesn't make what's said 'more right', it makes it, as has been said, 'more pedantic'.

    Also, "I'll stop hijacking the thread now" is "I hope l get the last word".
    Hijack reinstated... I believe it's spelled "whoop ti do" .

    I've been away from the boards for a bit and it's good to be back. I think belt drive is cool, but I wouldn't spend my money on it.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  53. #53
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
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    Where do you get repair links?

    If you are in a hurry, can you use ELMERS glue to fasten the two ends together? You have to take the frame apart? What. Can you remove links from this belt? These are questions a blind man would ask about this system. I think the best part of the belt drive is the ability of that earlier poster to use it to keep his pants up.

  54. #54
    Frt Range, CO
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    Next we'll discuss how ball bearings are really "bearing balls" and track dropouts are "track-ends", almost as stupid as a belt drive....

  55. #55
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    It seems the only people coming into the shop to ask about belt drive bikes are overweight, middle aged hybrid riders. The type of rider that has every possible cycling accessory attached to their bike, you know, cycling computers, mirrors, lights, racks, panniers, aero/TT bars, gel seat covers. They stand there in utter disbelief when told we don't stock any belt drive bikes, mumbling under their breath something about just how good of an idea it is.

  56. #56
    Out spokin'
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    Belt drive: the best drive system that exists except for all the others.

    --sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  57. #57
    the discerning hooligan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Belt drive: the best drive system that exists except for all the others.

    --sParty
    Shaft / worm gear Christini two wheel drive ?
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  58. #58
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
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    I hope one of those middle aged people

    (like me) can sell a seldom used belt drive for an in town cruiser on the cheap! I want to hear that thing as I cruise the hood with TEVA's on my feet and Gin & Juice in my water bottle.

  59. #59
    ~ B A D A S S ~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy R
    Pedant alert Gates calls them a "pulley" because a pulley is what belts run on/transmit power to. It's the correct terminology. It isn't a "cog" - a cog is designed to mesh with another similar cog (like in a gearbox). Chains don't run on cogs either, they run on sprockets, although chainring is ok too.

    For those of you who are motorcyclists - you don't talk about fitting a new gearbox or rear wheel "cog", do you? No, you call it a sprocket.

    There, I feel better now ! (well, as good as an old curmudgeon can ever feel... )

    And don't start me on the whole calling suspension forks "shocks" thing
    Its shox!
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
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    The thing I like best about these forums is how bike savvy all the commenters are. So, when I read posts about how stupid or inferior the belt drive is, I know it’s coming from people who have ridden a belt drive bike for some time, right? I mean people wouldn’t just come on here and blab about a product they know nothing about, right? It sure would do a great disservice to these forums if there were dudes out there like that.

  61. #61
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    That's the thing- when i was looking at this bike (formerly Belt drive), i tried to find objective info on the belt drive, but didn't find very many first hand testimonials. But since the belt was on it (e.g. it didn't cost me extra), i went with it. But now my experience is posted, and i'm back to chain (or, rather, waiting for homebrewed... so technically still belt, ugh).
    drMP

  62. #62
    Out spokin'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Cheswick
    The thing I like best about these forums is how bike savvy all the commenters are. So, when I read posts about how stupid or inferior the belt drive is, I know it’s coming from people who have ridden a belt drive bike for some time, right? I mean people wouldn’t just come on here and blab about a product they know nothing about, right? It sure would do a great disservice to these forums if there were dudes out there like that.
    I admit I don't own one... but I was pretty close to one.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=632000
    I watched the whole thing unfold.

    --sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Cheswick
    The thing I like best about these forums is how bike savvy all the commenters are. So, when I read posts about how stupid or inferior the belt drive is, I know it’s coming from people who have ridden a belt drive bike for some time, right? I mean people wouldn’t just come on here and blab about a product they know nothing about, right? It sure would do a great disservice to these forums if there were dudes out there like that.
    I thought this thread was about a guy that owns a belt drive bike and the lack of confidence he has in it. What were you reading? Just from your tone you sound like you are fat, middle aged and ride a hybrid.

  64. #64
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    I don't need to be kicked in the nuts to know that it hurts to be kicked in the nuts.

  65. #65
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    To really see the difference between belt drives and chain drives you don't need to look any further than your car/truck. I've owned toyota trucks for years. In the old days, toyota used to use timing chains and they never needed replacing. Now, my latest toyota truck has a timing belt. They say it needs replacing every one hundred thousand miles. When I asked about why they switched to belts, the answer I got is that it made the engine run smoother and quieter but at the expense of needing to be replaced at 100K miles.

    Based on this now ask yourself, if you were racing cars/trucks on a track (or think Baja 1000) would you use belts for critical components or chains?

    I think we all know the answer to that question.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up
    I thought this thread was about a guy that owns a belt drive bike and the lack of confidence he has in it. What were you reading? Just from your tone you sound like you are fat, middle aged and ride a hybrid.
    That made me laugh, thanks. You Canadians are hilarious.

  67. #67
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    I hope so, the intention was just to have a laugh. Seriously though pick any belt drive equipped bike that you want, now phone every shop in your area, tell them you have a ???? bike and that you've broken the belt and need a replacement. The response you get is no joke. Simply put belt drive is the answer to a question that is not being asked.

  68. #68
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
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    I still want a cruiser with one

    I have the high zoot carbon squish gear,a Niner S.S., and a winter 29er spare parts bike, but would love to trade in my 80's Schwinn World Tourist for a belt drive. I need to test ride one-I KNOW it sounds cool/quiet. Milk crate on the back and cruise Berkely looking for the PLINEY

  69. #69
    Dianetics Junior
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    Quote Originally Posted by the pope
    I'm through wearing pants. They never fall down when I don't want them to.
    freaking brilliant

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