Help a girl out with SS build- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    Help a girl out with SS build

    First, please don't send me to the FAQ section. I have already read it and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed. I am looking for personal input. I want to build up a my Jamis Dragon frame. This is not a conversion project but rather a build from the ground up. I do have some spare parts around that I plan on using (not much though). My biggest concern is that the frame has vertical dropouts. Is it possible to build up a frame with vertical dropouts successfully that looks and runs smoothly? I am concerned about chain noise, jumping and/or rubbing. Can anyone offer some good suggestions for a set up? What would be the best chain tensioner for my build up? I really want the cleanest looking build. I will be buying new wheels and have no clue as to what kind of rear hub to select. At this point I will not be running disc brakes. I would like to use a cassette so I can change out the rear cog when needed as I build strength. Also, since this is a build and not a conversion is there one thing you would sink more money into? Lastly, I plan on going rigid. Any fork recs would be great. I would like a fork that would compliment the Reynolds 853 nicely. Something a little forgiving, if that is possible for a rigid fork. I am anxious to dive into the SS world. Thanks in advance for any input/clarity you can provide .

    kelly

  2. #2

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    If you're worried about the vertical dropouts, why not have one of the framebuilders from the FAQ do a horizontal dropout conversion, then you'll have a SS specific frame

  3. #3
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    ENO hub

    Give serious consideration to the ENO hub. It will help keep the clean look you desire.
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    My cycling photos. Enjoy!

  4. #4

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    just use the rollenlager chain tensioner, it will work great with your veritcal dropouts. I am going to be using it on my Evil Imperial.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    First, please don't send me to the FAQ section. I have already read it and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed. I am looking for personal input. I want to build up a my Jamis Dragon frame. This is not a conversion project but rather a build from the ground up. I do have some spare parts around that I plan on using (not much though). My biggest concern is that the frame has vertical dropouts. Is it possible to build up a frame with vertical dropouts successfully that looks and runs smoothly? I am concerned about chain noise, jumping and/or rubbing. Can anyone offer some good suggestions for a set up? What would be the best chain tensioner for my build up? I really want the cleanest looking build. I will be buying new wheels and have no clue as to what kind of rear hub to select. At this point I will not be running disc brakes. I would like to use a cassette so I can change out the rear cog when needed as I build strength. Also, since this is a build and not a conversion is there one thing you would sink more money into? Lastly, I plan on going rigid. Any fork recs would be great. I would like a fork that would compliment the Reynolds 853 nicely. Something a little forgiving, if that is possible for a rigid fork. I am anxious to dive into the SS world. Thanks in advance for any input/clarity you can provide .

    kelly
    I think the best option for a clean looking SS on vertical dropouts would be an ENO eccentric hub. That would eliminate any need for a tensioner albeit at a price. That would also fit into the plan of buying new wheels. This is not a cassette rear hub though. You can still easily change rear sizes just use the cheaper Shimano freewheels @ first until you find what you like and perhaps upgrade later. My friend uses them and he says they work perfectly fine and are very cheap.

    For a cheap rigid fork that works perfectly fine look at the Surly 1x1 or the Kona P2. If you want to spend more, a lot more, Vicious makes supposedly very nice forks as does Kelly. Perhaps check out Pace's Rc31. That's a UK company that makes a really nice carbon fork. From what i've read here and elsewhere it's a smoother ride. It's also ~290 dollars.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    First, please don't send me to the FAQ section. I have already read it and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed. I am looking for personal input. I want to build up a my Jamis Dragon frame. This is not a conversion project but rather a build from the ground up. I do have some spare parts around that I plan on using (not much though). My biggest concern is that the frame has vertical dropouts. Is it possible to build up a frame with vertical dropouts successfully that looks and runs smoothly? I am concerned about chain noise, jumping and/or rubbing. Can anyone offer some good suggestions for a set up? What would be the best chain tensioner for my build up? I really want the cleanest looking build. I will be buying new wheels and have no clue as to what kind of rear hub to select. At this point I will not be running disc brakes. I would like to use a cassette so I can change out the rear cog when needed as I build strength. Also, since this is a build and not a conversion is there one thing you would sink more money into? Lastly, I plan on going rigid. Any fork recs would be great. I would like a fork that would compliment the Reynolds 853 nicely. Something a little forgiving, if that is possible for a rigid fork. I am anxious to dive into the SS world. Thanks in advance for any input/clarity you can provide .

    kelly
    Vertical dropouts, cassette, possibly disc, and no tensioner? That's a tough one.

    The frame mods are a good idea, but more expensive. EBB would probably be best with the disc rear. The ENO eccentric hub works well, but I don't think the disc version is out as I write this (Ernesto?).

    Play with the calculators and ask around to see if anyone else had success with finding the "exact right" gears on the Dragon so that you don't have to use a tensioner. If it's a gear you can live with, then you're all set.

    If that doesn't work I'd wait for the ENO eccentric disc, then play with crappy Shimano and ACS freewheels. After deciding on a gearing, I'd spring for the ENO freewheel. Remember, you can also fine tune by changing the chainring. Start off with a 32T. If it's too hard, go to 30. Too easy? Go 34T. You can also change the teeth of an ENO freewheel, albeit it's about 2/3 the price of a new one.

    As for forks, I dig the Vicious, but it can't run as big a tire as my Kelly. Mine can accept a Nokian Gazzi 2.6 with room to spare. If you don't need the monster meat, then I'd go Vicious because I've heard that it has a very smooth ride and I think it's lighter.
    Last edited by Drevil; 11-12-2004 at 06:44 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Hi Kelly,
    Congrats on the new build.
    As has been stated a few times, the ENO eccentric hub is a beautifully simple approach to building an SS using a frame that has vertical drops.
    Do not use a chain tensioner. I suffered through that experience personally, using both the surly and the soulcraft version. They are a pain compared to the simplicity of the ENO...assuming you're running v-brakes, which it sounds like you are.
    The ENO is a bit pricey but, is worth it's cost in simplicity and effectiveness.
    Regarding the rigid fork. You can't find a rigid fork that is "forgiving." That's why it's rigid.
    That's why suspension forks exist.
    Have fun on your build!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    Vertical dropouts, cassette, possibly disc, and no tensioner? That's a tough one.

    The frame mods are a good idea, but more expensive. EBB would probably be best with the disc rear. The ENO eccentric hub works well, but I don't think the disc version is out as I write this (Ernesto?).

    Play with the calculators and ask around to see if anyone else had success with finding the "exact right" gears on the Dragon so that you don't have to use a tensioner. If it's a gear you can live with, then you're all set.

    If that doesn't work I'd wait for the ENO eccentric disc, then play with crappy Shimano and ACS freewheels. After deciding on a gearing, I'd spring for the ENO freewheel. Remember, you can also fine tune by changing the chainring. Start off with a 32T. If it's too hard, go to 30. Too easy? Go 34T. You can also change the teeth of an ENO freewheel, albeit it's about 2/3 the price of a new one.

    As for forks, I dig the Vicious, but it can't run as big a tire as my Kelly. Mine can accept a Nokian Gazzi 2.6 with room to spare. If you don't need the monster meat, then I'd go Vicious because I've heard that it has a very smooth ride and I think it's lighter.
    Good suggestions on everyting, Drevil (IMO). I have the Vicious fork on my Soulcraft and love it.

    Craig
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1x1_Speed_Craig
    Good suggestions on everyting, Drevil (IMO). I have the Vicious fork on my Soulcraft and love it.

    Craig
    Off topic, but any idea if the Vicious will fit the Mutano 2.4 race or the Weirwolf 2.5 race OK? Ordering a fork soon and debating between it and the Pace RC31. I know the pace will fit those fine.

  10. #10

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    I think $50 will get you some Surly track drops ("fork ends" for you cycling literati) put on by a builder like Walt at waltworks.com. Don't quote me on the price, but I doubt it'd be much more than that anywhere. That's how I'd go about doing things, and then just get some Surly hubs laced 3x to some 519s - economical and bombproof. Pricepoint is flogging SD7 brakes and levers for really cheap too, and I've heard good things about them.

    I've also heard there is a magic gear for the Dragon frame, and a search of the SS board might reveal it. DSR (typically on the Front Range and 29er boards) owned one for quite a while, and I don't recall whether he used a tensioner or not. He also ran a nice looking Ti fork for a bit, and it seemed to compliment the frame well.

    Lastly, you don't by chance have a dog named Harlan, do you? Cos' I know a Kelly in New York...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookykinkajou
    Off topic, but any idea if the Vicious will fit the Mutano 2.4 race or the Weirwolf 2.5 race OK? Ordering a fork soon and debating between it and the Pace RC31. I know the pace will fit those fine.
    I run the Mutano 2.4 on my Vicious and it clears fine. The only issue (if you're running V-brakes) is that you have to deflate the tire to get it out of the fork. I have a fork-mount rack, and it's really no big deal to reinflate the front tire before a ride. You usually have to add a few pounds of pressure anyway.

    Craig
    I dig steel-framed bikes of all shapes and sizes.

  12. #12
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    I don't want to rain on anyone's parade.
    And I know we all get giddy when we hear of someone stripping down an ol' gearie for the SS prize...
    but why throw money hacking/welding into an old frame? bah....keep the gearie, better yet, sell it on ebay...
    then, Kelly, drop the $300 or so on this bad boy, ehr, girl.
    There, you've got an SSpecific bike w/ a "forgiving" fork...and it's dead sexy!

  13. #13
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    ENO would be the cleanest, since you would be able to ditch the tensioner. No need for frame work. And you're starting from scratch with a new wheel, so why not? It's not a cassette hub though, and keep in mind that a special tool is needed to change FWs (otherwise it looks to be a PITA). Still, FWs are pretty easy to change out in general and are fairly cheap (nuless you get the bling ENO FW). With disc out of the equation it simplifies things somewhat.

    BTW, chicks on SS are cool. Just helped a friend in your same shoes. Look for a diminutive <b>*r</b>acer <b>t</b>ype<b>*</b> to be posting about her pink 1x1 in the near future.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    I don't want to rain on anyone's parade.
    And I know we all get giddy when we hear of someone stripping down an ol' gearie for the SS prize...
    but why throw money hacking/welding into an old frame? bah....keep the gearie, better yet, sell it on ebay...
    then, Kelly, drop the $300 or so on this bad boy, ehr, girl.
    There, you've got an SSpecific bike w/ a "forgiving" fork...and it's dead sexy!

    I agree. but if discs are in the future, maybe hack it and put on an EBB; horiz drops+disc=PITA. But then again, selling it for a SS-specific frame is a good idea too, except I woulda pointed her towards the pink Surly (smaller sizes still available). Or, some dude is selling Kelly Deluxe SS frames with Paul Word Disc hubs on Ebay for <700! Also saw some WTB Dirt Drop bars. Sooo many choices...
    Last edited by roadiegonebad; 11-12-2004 at 10:45 AM.

  15. #15

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    Here's mine

    Converted mine a little while back. Was able to run 32:16 and switched to a 32:18 using a half link. So far no tensioner is required. Hopefully the picture will be below.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    A fork of a different color...

    I have not used an ENO hub, but the idea is sound and once you find the right gear for ya (after a few months of riding) using cheapo freewheels (which last a few months) then you can get the ENO freewheel. That is probably the best idea so far. don't worry 'bout disc on the back, V-brakes will work fine for a long time.

    for the front, may I suggest the Surly Karate Monkey fork (only $80-90) (or Instigator if you want to use V-brakes for awhile). It is a taller fork, which will raise the front of the bike up at least an inch. That Jamis' headtube is probably pretty steep already and it won't hurt and will probably help to slacken out the angle a bit. Plus, it makes for a better descending bike and makes the fork feel a bit softer. Plus! you can put a nice BIG tire in there, maybe not a 3" Gazzi like I and my friend SSue runs but Shiggy can point ya to a BIG and light tire for that front wheel. For climbing, don't worry 'bout that big fork, you WILL be out of the saddle.

    Lastly, both of those forks have disc brake tabs, and NOW is the time to get a front disc wheel. Use an Avid Mechanical disc for the front and your favorite V-brake for the rear and it will be a smoking fast descender bike.

    oh oh! and while you are at it, consider the Jeff Jones H-bars, the best SS bar I can think of, hands are always in the right STRONG position and brakes are at your fingertips.

    good luck and please let us know how it goes!

    bike ON
    bob
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  17. #17
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    You don't need to worry about the dropouts

    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    First, please don't send me to the FAQ section. I have already read it and I am feeling a bit overwhelmed. I am looking for personal input. I want to build up a my Jamis Dragon frame. This is not a conversion project but rather a build from the ground up. I do have some spare parts around that I plan on using (not much though). My biggest concern is that the frame has vertical dropouts. Is it possible to build up a frame with vertical dropouts successfully that looks and runs smoothly? I am concerned about chain noise, jumping and/or rubbing. Can anyone offer some good suggestions for a set up? What would be the best chain tensioner for my build up? I really want the cleanest looking build. I will be buying new wheels and have no clue as to what kind of rear hub to select. At this point I will not be running disc brakes. I would like to use a cassette so I can change out the rear cog when needed as I build strength. Also, since this is a build and not a conversion is there one thing you would sink more money into? Lastly, I plan on going rigid. Any fork recs would be great. I would like a fork that would compliment the Reynolds 853 nicely. Something a little forgiving, if that is possible for a rigid fork. I am anxious to dive into the SS world. Thanks in advance for any input/clarity you can provide .

    kelly
    Here is the build I did:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=55132

    No quite what you are looking for, but pay attention to the cassette and tensioner. The spacer kit and the Paul Components Melvin will solve your problems.
    The spacer kit (got it from pricepoint I think) came with 2 cogs, but the teeth aren't ramped, so I couldn't use them. I just took apart an old [email protected] cassette and used the 18 cog. If you really want to ease yourself into SS, do what I did with the crank set and keep 2-3 rings (gets a little noisy on the big ring). You just have to be very careful and picky when setting up your chainline. Basically, the rear should be spaced out to about the 5th position and the front should be inline with it. Ideal ratio is apparently 2:1 (I'm working towards at 36x18 front to back). By going with v-brakes, you'll save some weight there also, just stay away from mud. PM me if you have any questions.

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  18. #18
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    ???

    Why do we assume that since she is a girl that she needs a pink bike? Maybe she doesn't like pink. However, I do like it... I have a 1987 GT Pro Performer in pink to prove it.


    Moto

  19. #19
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    Padre,
    Were are you getting the PUSS for 300 bucks.....My dealer wants full pop at 599..I need to get one at that price. Let me know where you are getting yours

    Thanks
    Proud Tribe member since 1992 - looking for better singletrack to be ridden year round

  20. #20

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    A Jamis bicycle with Eno is a happy bicycle. Your bike does not want anything attached to it's derailure hanger.

    -Tom the bike wisperer

  21. #21
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    Kelly,
    If you do not already have a rear wheel ready to go, buy the White Industries ENO ECC hub and use Shimano/ACS freewheels until you get the magic ratio that you like, then look into a White Ind. freewheel (very nice).
    While figuring out the ratio you can replace the chainrings pretty easily and a freewheel removal tool is also cheap.

    I have a ENO and it works well, no slippage; admittedly you are limited to v-brakes, but think of it as massive ground-clearance... no disc or derailleur to get caught on curbs/rocks when your in the tight stuff.

    Enjoy the SS, and cudo's for choosing 853 steel
    this space left intentionally blank

  22. #22
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    Follow Hard Pack's advise, 2:1 combination works on most cases without a tensioner and a half link can be used for alternative gearing. Stay away from tensioners other than the Rollenhanger (or something like that), most of them are a PITA and a POS.

  23. #23
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    Not just an assumption...
    yesterday kelly posted "I am pink with envy!" (about *rt*'s pink 1x1)

    Don't let the sweet, but disc-only Bianchi P.U.S.S. scare ya... nashbar sells Deore discs for about $40... they are almost as easy to adjust as @vids (I have both of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by motoman711
    Why do we assume that since she is a girl that she needs a pink bike? Maybe she doesn't like pink....

  24. #24
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    fixit

    find the gear combo that works for your chain stay length and/or pick up a half.link. (less expensive than ENO ) Tensioners are generally undesirable (asthetically and functionally)

    try hear http://www.peak.org/~fixin/fmu1.0.html

    to get your exact chainstay lenght measure from the center of the dropout to the center of the bb axle.

    you can also just mess around with a middle ring 32t and a cassette and a chain to se what may be close to tight. you don't want the chain so tight that the cranks don't spin freely but you don't want to be able to take the chain off without removing the wheel.

    this is how I would go about it assuming that your wheels will have regular hubs. If you're planing on getting an SS wheelset built then the ENO is a very good option.

    Jeff

  25. #25

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    eno disk

    Per a rep @ White Industries, the eno hub will be available in disk for '05

  26. #26
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    I have a Dragon frame and love it. It is my geared setup and I have a SPOT SS. I have a Bianchi DISS frame 17.5" not being used at the moment (I was toying with the idea of making it a winter bike) so if you want to spare the Dragon, let me know. I also have a SPOT rear wheel but the bearings are pretty much shot.

    Either way good luck. The Dragon is a great bike!

  27. #27

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    You guys totally rock!

    Wow, thanks for all of the input. I certainly have a lot to think about. Word has it over in the women's lounge that you guys are a very cool bunch. I would definitely have to agree

    As for getting a SS specific frame I have considered it. It's just not in the budget. I'm also in the middle of building up a road bike. I would consider doing a trade. It would have to be for a frame of comparable material (I looove the 853 steel) and an XS.

    Thanks again!
    kelly

  28. #28
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    Check out my build:

    http://www.trianglemtb.com/yabbse/in...;threadid=6153

    Got about $70 bucks in her plus some free used v brakes that my neighbor graciously gave to me. Only thing I am changing on it is the handlbars (which is included in that $70 which was $40 before the handlebar swap out). Just got a set of 2" riser bars to save my back. The chopped straight bars in the pic stink for single speeding (was a race bike from years ago hence the straight chopped bars).

    Check this little gadet out for you rear wheel:

    http://tinyurl.com/6krb2

    That little gizmo worked great and lined up perfectly with my cranks/middlechain ring.
    That along with new brake cables, and riser bars are the only cost I have in the bike. The black spacers are steel although they look like plastic in the picture.

    You will notice that in my pic, the chain looks slack. Well it was and that chain I tried for the first ride was a Shimano 8 speed chain (was used but not worn too bad as I measured it for wear). First ride I lost the chain 6 times in 3 miles. Next day I went out and bought a generic single speed chain for $10 and the tension was perfect with out any tensioner. Talk about sweet and lucky. Have not lost a chain since the chain swap out. I think the single speed chain was just a hair shorter per link which made it fit nice and sweet. Try changing chains and try a half link for tension problems. Tensiones suck and are a big PITA/POS. Plus they add weight and you loose the "clean/naked look".

    My suggestion as far as a gear combo would be a 34x20 which is not really a 2:1. IMHO 2:1 is way to stout for single speeding on any trail. I run a 34:18 and it is also pretty stout but I like it. Many folks run the 34:20. Experiement around with the gear combo to find what works for you.

    Good luck with it and have fun. I enjoy riding this bike as much or not more then my Giant NRS2. I hve only had mine built up for about a month now.

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    I am leaning towards the Gusset. I am assuming I can run a 20t cog with it even though it comes with 16t and 18t cogs. I want to do a 34:20 set up initially. I've also made the monumental decision to upgrade my wheels on my FS bike so I will be using the old set on my SS set-up. Eventually if I really dig SSing I will look into good wheels with an ENO hub. Just can't afford it right now.
    kelly
    Check this little gadet out for you rear wheel:

    http://tinyurl.com/6krb2

    That little gizmo worked great and lined up perfectly with my cranks/middlechain ring.
    That along with new brake cables, and riser bars are the only cost I have in the bike. The black spacers are steel although they look like plastic in the picture.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    I am leaning towards the Gusset. I am assuming I can run a 20t cog with it even though it comes with 16t and 18t cogs. I want to do a 34:20 set up initially. I've also made the monumental decision to upgrade my wheels on my FS bike so I will be using the old set on my SS set-up. Eventually if I really dig SSing I will look into good wheels with an ENO hub. Just can't afford it right now.
    kelly
    Check this little gadet out for you rear wheel:

    http://tinyurl.com/6krb2

    That little gizmo worked great and lined up perfectly with my cranks/middlechain ring.
    That along with new brake cables, and riser bars are the only cost I have in the bike. The black spacers are steel although they look like plastic in the picture.
    That's exactly what I used in conjunction with the Paul Melvin tensioner. I ditched the cogs that came with the Gusset and broke apart an old cassette for an 18th cog. If you are still using triple chain rings, then make sure you use a 9spd chain other wise you will have issues with the chain seating in the bottom of the valleys between the teeth. I'm still using all three chain rings on my bike witha 9spd chain. The cogs that come with the Gussett aren't ramped like cassette cogs are so thus the problems with seating the chain. The same issue applies to the chain rings. I suggest using a chain that has an easy to disassemble master link, like the sram line. You will be needing some kind of tensioner though. The cheap way is grabbing an old derailer, use some shifter cable to position the jockey pulleys in line with the chain line. If you go after market, I can vouch for the Melvin. Stay away from the Surly Singulator. It apparently has some issues that have to be jury rigged to get it to work. I say this after seeing a long thread here about complaints concerning the spring that comes in it, many people complaing about it breaking, other complaining that it doesn't have enough tension. Until Surly fixes these issues, I would steer clear of it. The Melvin provides tons of tension and lined up perfect with my cog and Gussett setup.

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  31. #31
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    Is the 15" Zion 853EBB small enough?
    Standover Height 27.70"
    Top Tube (effective) 22.24"

    Another idea: Spicer will put an EBB in your Dragon for $95

    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    Wow, thanks for all of the input. I certainly have a lot to think about. Word has it over in the women's lounge that you guys are a very cool bunch. I would definitely have to agree

    As for getting a SS specific frame I have considered it. It's just not in the budget. I'm also in the middle of building up a road bike. I would consider doing a trade. It would have to be for a frame of comparable material (I looove the 853 steel) and an XS.

    Thanks again!
    kelly

  32. #32
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    Yes you can run any cassette cog with the Gusset.

    Strackmike, why did you ditch the cogs that came with the Gusset? The gusset cogs are better for single speeding because the cassette gears have different height teeth (a ramp effect to aid in shifting) that is more prone to chain derailment. I also notice the gear that came with the Gusset is slightly thicker so that it won't put as much stress on the free hub that the cassette or in the case the Gusset rides on.

    Spicer will put an EBB in your Dragon for $95


    Hey cOjones.... Who is Spicer? Will they do this for any frame? Do you have details? Just curious?

    As far as the gear ratio goes... my bad I actually run a 32x18, and I would highly suggest a 32x20 as a starting point. The 32 tooth gear was the stock middle chain ring on my bike. As I mentioned before try different setups to see what works for you.

    Good luck!

    Oh yea, I just put the 2" riser bars on that are about 4" wider then my super chopped flat bars. Man talk about a nice ride now. Can't wait to to take her on the trail!

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    http://www.spicercycles.com/index.cg...t=Frame%20work

    My guess is that Strackmike is using a 9-speed chain, too narrow for good wide cogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbcyclist
    Yes you can run any cassette cog with the Gusset.

    Strackmike, why did you ditch the cogs that came with the Gusset? The gusset cogs are better for single speeding because the cassette gears have different height teeth (a ramp effect to aid in shifting) that is more prone to chain derailment. I also notice the gear that came with the Gusset is slightly thicker so that it won't put as much stress on the free hub that the cassette or in the case the Gusset rides on.

    Spicer will put an EBB in your Dragon for $95


    Hey cOjones.... Who is Spicer? Will they do this for any frame? Do you have details? Just curious?

    As far as the gear ratio goes... my bad I actually run a 32x18, and I would highly suggest a 32x20 as a starting point. The 32 tooth gear was the stock middle chain ring on my bike. As I mentioned before try different setups to see what works for you.

    Good luck!

    Oh yea, I just put the 2" riser bars on that are about 4" wider then my super chopped flat bars. Man talk about a nice ride now. Can't wait to to take her on the trail!

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by m88tow
    just use the rollenlager chain tensioner, it will work great with your veritcal dropouts. I am going to be using it on my Evil Imperial.
    Thanks for the props man! There are some pics floating around this forum of an Evil frame with the Rollenlager, so it should work well when you decide to build it up.

    -ken (owner of Rennen)

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbcyclist
    Yes you can run any cassette cog with the Gusset.

    Strackmike, why did you ditch the cogs that came with the Gusset? The gusset cogs are better for single speeding because the cassette gears have different height teeth (a ramp effect to aid in shifting) that is more prone to chain derailment. I also notice the gear that came with the Gusset is slightly thicker so that it won't put as much stress on the free hub that the cassette or in the case the Gusset rides on.
    I am using the cog from a cassette because I'm still using all three chainrings in front with a derailler. Yeah, I know it's not a true SS. I refer to it as a hybrid. It's just so that I can work my legs into a true SS. At that point, the Gussett cogs would go back on with a single ring in the front and a proper SS chain with the correct width. The narrow chain is required (I'm told) so that I can still use the chain rings. Until I get rid of the ramped chainrings, I gotta use the 9spd chain.

    Education Coordinator for Bicycle Trails Council of the East Bay
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  36. #36
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    He is using a 9 spd chain

    So that it will work with his Front der and 3 chainring setup. So what he essentially has is a rather complex 3 spd.

    As far as the Gusset conversion goes, it works great. It will perfectly align your rear cog with the middle chain ring. I am running it with a singulator zip tied into the "up" position. This was the cheapest and easiest way to get the bike up and running. But, it does not sound like Kelly wants the redneck for her bike. I would look into some other type of tensioner in that case.

    Also, Kelly, if your old wheel has a 7 spd hub, you can still use the Gusset. You will have to break apart an old 7 spd cassette and replace the inner part of the Gusset with those spacers. This worked great for me.
    "There are those who would say there's something pathological about the need to ride, and they're probably on to something. I'd wager though that most of the society-approved compulsions leave deeper scars in the psyche than a need to go and ride a bicycle on a mountain." Cam McRea

  37. #37

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    sorry

    15'' is way too big. The Dragon at 13'' is even a bit too big.

    Quote Originally Posted by c0jones
    Is the 15" Zion 853EBB small enough?
    Standover Height 27.70"
    Top Tube (effective) 22.24"

    Another idea: Spicer will put an EBB in your Dragon for $95

  38. #38

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    How much difference

    between 34:20 and 32:18?

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    Not a ton, but you will notice it on the hills. Few questions to think about when you choose a gear ratio.

    Terrian you will be riding? Is it flat, rough, hilly, technical? If the trail is "very flowey" and is smooth and fast then a 18 is the way to go. 20 works good for hilly techinal rough stuff.

    Are you a masher or a spinner? (Refering to pedal cadence here). In other words do you grind the gears or pedal slow up the hills in a big gear, or do you spin a little gear when climbing. If your a masher then the 18 would work. If you are a spinner then I would go with a 20. Also a 18 will require more leg strength to get up the hills so if you are a "finesse rider" (a spinner) then a 20 may suit you better.

    These are just guidelines. Your results will be different then everybody else. Trial and error is best. I like an 18 because it is fast and I do not have to use a tensioner on my setup if I run an 18. Yes I do pay the price on the hills, but it is faster on the flats. The 18 is also a good physical work out and challange for me. The tough trails (hilly, rocky) that are not that easy on a gearie are even more challanging on he SS which I like.

  40. #40
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    2 gear-inches

    I don't think mtbcyclist noticed that the chainrings are different.

    34:20 is a little lower than 32:18

    34:19 is closer to 32:18 (about 46 gear inches)
    32:19 is closer to 34:20 (about 44 gear inches)

    The difference between 20 and 18 with same chainring is greater.
    32:20 - 41.5
    32:18 - 46.1
    or
    34:20 - 44.1
    34:18 - 49.0

    So, I guess the answer to your question is:
    2 gear-inches (not much)

    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    between 34:20 and 32:18?

  41. #41
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    Ooops you are right cOjones. Was compareing the rear cog with no consideration for the front chain ring.

    To answer your queston Mathmatically:

    34:20 = 1.7:1
    32:18 = 1.777777:1 (or 1.8:1 if you round up)

    So they are almost identical. So close that I would challange somebody to noitce the diffeence if you ran both gear ratios on the same bike.

    What I said above in a prevoius post still applies though.

  42. #42

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    Thanks!

    So I guess I have to figure out which ratio work work better with my bike. I haven't measured the chainstay yet. I have a feeling the 32:18 is going to kill me!

    kelly

    Quote Originally Posted by c0jones
    I don't think mtbcyclist noticed that the chainrings are different.

    34:20 is a little lower than 32:18

    34:19 is closer to 32:18 (about 46 gear inches)
    32:19 is closer to 34:20 (about 44 gear inches)

    The difference between 20 and 18 with same chainring is greater.
    32:20 - 41.5
    32:18 - 46.1
    or
    34:20 - 44.1
    34:18 - 49.0

    So, I guess the answer to your question is:
    2 gear-inches (not much)

  43. #43
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    Hey funny thing there is a KellyinNY selling a Jamis Dragon on nemba.org. I guess you changed your mind...

    Good Luck. Those frames are really nice. I got excited when I saw it for sale then I saw the size.

    GP

  44. #44
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    [QUOTE=kellyinNY]I am leaning towards the Gusset. I am assuming I can run a 20t cog with it even though it comes with 16t and 18t cogs. I want to do a 34:20 set up initially. I've also made the monumental decision to upgrade my wheels on my FS bike so I will be using the old set on my SS set-up. Eventually if I really dig SSing I will look into good wheels with an ENO hub. Just can't afford it right now.
    kelly QUOTE]

    the gusset will serve you very very well. i've been beating on mine for the last 6 months, and it's held up like a true champ. be sure to post back when it's all set up.

    on a sidenote: wtf?! machined aluminum spacers with the gusset package now? they only stocked them in plastic when i got mine. oh well. if the plastic ones hold up as well as they do, imagine how bombproof the aluminum ones will be.

    the_dude
    "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling" ~James E. Starrs

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    So I guess I have to figure out which ratio work work better with my bike. I haven't measured the chainstay yet. I have a feeling the 32:18 is going to kill me!

    kelly
    Not necessarly. I would build it up and give it a try. You can always change it if you do not like it. I would not bother measuring anything. Just grab a chain and experiement. That way you kwow your results are accurate. Thats what I did and it worked out good.

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    Yeah that was me

    Good spot. I thought I was going to part with it because I am/was pretty much set on a building a SS. At the time wasn't sure if I could do the kind of build that I wanted to do given the vertical dropouts. Now with all the graet advice and new knowledge I have I am going to give it a go on the Dragon. I am even more excited that it can be done because it is such a beautiful frame. I guess it wasn't meant to be sold

    kelly

    Quote Originally Posted by GP-TJ
    Hey funny thing there is a KellyinNY selling a Jamis Dragon on nemba.org. I guess you changed your mind...

    Good Luck. Those frames are really nice. I got excited when I saw it for sale then I saw the size.

    GP

  47. #47
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    hey kelly...

    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    Good spot. I thought I was going to part with it because I am/was pretty much set on a building a SS. At the time wasn't sure if I could do the kind of build that I wanted to do given the vertical dropouts. Now with all the graet advice and new knowledge I have I am going to give it a go on the Dragon. I am even more excited that it can be done because it is such a beautiful frame. I guess it wasn't meant to be sold

    kelly
    my pink 1x1 frame was delivered yesterday and i got the pink king headset pressed in last night. i hope to have it built by the end of next week.....stay tuned for pix!!

    good luck with your build.

    rt
    "where are you not going so fast?" (question asked to cyclist on a trainer)

    *rt*'s fabulous blog
    mm blogging

  48. #48

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    Sweet!

    Quote Originally Posted by *rt*
    my pink 1x1 frame was delivered yesterday and i got the pink king headset pressed in last night. i hope to have it built by the end of next week.....stay tuned for pix!!

    good luck with your build.

    rt
    I can't wait to see! Have you decided on a ratio yet? Isn't it sooo much fun to have a bike project!!

  49. #49
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    :)

    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    I can't wait to see! Have you decided on a ratio yet? Isn't it sooo much fun to have a bike project!!
    i'm going to start with a 34:18 and see how it goes. i might also buy a 19 right away because i have a feeling that i'm going to need it when i get started.

    you should have seen me grinning like an idiot all night long. i can't wait to get it all built up so i can take it for a ride! i'm picking up a seatpost for it tonight....

    bike projects rock! how far along on yours are you?

    rt
    "where are you not going so fast?" (question asked to cyclist on a trainer)

    *rt*'s fabulous blog
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  50. #50
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    Is it just me or are most folks starting out underestimating their ability to work a more powerful gear? I've been riding my singlespeed mutant bike for a couple for a couple of weeks now, and I think I'm doing OK with the 32:16 gear ratio. And I'm a big fat ass with little to no athletic ability. I feel like I have the lung capacity of a two year-old sometimes. And I think I could go to an even higher ratio at this time. When I first dabble in singlespeed riding, I merely picked a gear set on my geared hardtail and rode it. When I finished my ride and counted the teeth on the rear cog, I thought I was riding a 32:16 ratio, but what I didn't know was that the chainring was a 34T ring. Turns out I was doing pretty OK on a 34:16 ratio.

    Am I mental here, or are most of us being a tad conservative?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpinWheelz
    Am I mental here, or are most of us being a tad conservative?
    Nope, you're being mental.
    What few people are mentioning is how critial terrain is in choosing a gear.
    If at the track, sure, go 53x12.
    If I live in New York City, sure, go 43x16
    If I live in Iowa, sure, go 38x16.
    If I live in NorCal, sure go 34x16.
    But, if you live with actual, long, steep hills, you wouldn't be running that gear for long.

    Here in SoCal, the rides are 90% up, 8% flat, 2% down.
    Last Saturday's ride was about a 10 mile climb, about 9 of which were climbing. For me, I stood about 50% of those miles, was able to sit and climb the rest.
    On 34x16? I know of only a few who could.

    So, FWIW, factor in terrain before spreading the positives of your gearing choice.

  52. #52

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    You know

    Quote Originally Posted by *rt*
    i'm going to start with a 34:18 and see how it goes. i might also buy a 19 right away because i have a feeling that i'm going to need it when i get started.

    you should have seen me grinning like an idiot all night long. i can't wait to get it all built up so i can take it for a ride! i'm picking up a seatpost for it tonight....

    bike projects rock! how far along on yours are you?

    rt
    we are going to have to start calling you surly gurly

    My project will take some time. I have some spare parts around and I made the monumental decision to upgrade my wheels on my FS so I will be using the old wheels on the SS. I am also in the middle of building up a roadie. Actually it's 90% complete. I really need to finish that project before I start my SS build. Especially since trainer season is upon us here in upstate NY UGH.

  53. #53
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    exactly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Nope, you're being mental.
    [snip]
    So, FWIW, factor in terrain before spreading the positives of your gearing choice.
    terrain is key. i live where there are no flats. you're either going up or you're going down. often it's not long ups or downs but it's not flat either. i can think of maybe 2 or 3 trails near by (less than 40 min drive) that are relatively "flat" (i.e., less than 1500' of climbing/lap). if i want to drive up to some of the better trails then i'm in the GA mountains and i'm looking at a whole lotta climbing.

    i know very few people in this area who could push a 32x16 and i know for a fact that i am not one of them!

    besides, i think i'd rather underestimate my strength and be thrilled that i can push a bigger gear than overestimate my strength and feel like a total sissy after my 1st ride (i have enough of that experience when i ride with gears!).

    rt
    "where are you not going so fast?" (question asked to cyclist on a trainer)

    *rt*'s fabulous blog
    mm blogging

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellyinNY
    we are going to have to start calling you surly gurly

    My project will take some time. I have some spare parts around and I made the monumental decision to upgrade my wheels on my FS so I will be using the old wheels on the SS. I am also in the middle of building up a roadie. Actually it's 90% complete. I really need to finish that project before I start my SS build. Especially since trainer season is upon us here in upstate NY UGH.
    LOL!

    i know what you mean about upgrades. i've decided this is my year, so i might as well just bite the bullet and go for it all! i'll be buying a FS sometime this winter/early spring, i must get a new wheelset for my HT (under threat of sidewall collapse), and then i just had to have a pink ss!! next i will be taking up bank robbing to support my addiction.

    finish that roadie. you'll love it for the speed.

    rt
    "where are you not going so fast?" (question asked to cyclist on a trainer)

    *rt*'s fabulous blog
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  55. #55
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    Smile Depends on the direction

    Hmm, if it is 90% up the hill, isn't it true that if you go in the opposite directon it would be 90%DH?????

  56. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpinWheelz
    Is it just me or are most folks starting out underestimating their ability to work a more powerful gear? I've been riding my singlespeed mutant bike for a couple for a couple of weeks now, and I think I'm doing OK with the 32:16 gear ratio. And I'm a big fat ass with little to no athletic ability. I feel like I have the lung capacity of a two year-old sometimes. And I think I could go to an even higher ratio at this time. When I first dabble in singlespeed riding, I merely picked a gear set on my geared hardtail and rode it. When I finished my ride and counted the teeth on the rear cog, I thought I was riding a 32:16 ratio, but what I didn't know was that the chainring was a 34T ring. Turns out I was doing pretty OK on a 34:16 ratio.

    Am I mental here, or are most of us being a tad conservative?
    55 gear inches is a lot to push. 52 is not conservative and is typical (2:1 ratio) ride hard 55.

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