Fixie or SS with Disc Brakes Setup?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zipzit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    399

    Fixie or SS with Disc Brakes Setup?

    I'm trying to figure out how to have my cake and drink beer too. I've always dreamed of owning a fixed gear bike, but I'm not convinced thats going to be a perfect setup. I'd like to have the option of a) fixed gear or b) single speed with disc brakes.

    I've got a Karate Monkey frame with horizontal dropouts. My problem is which method / hub to use. I really don't want to buy two different wheels.

    Option #1: SS/Disc hub with drilled gear.

    I've seen the 63XC.com proposal where you drill a disc six bolt pattern in your favorite gear, bolt it on and bingo! either fixed without rear brake or SS with disc brake. http://www.63xc.com/jasom/milldisc.htm My proposal is to do that on some Surly hubs. I know the Surly guys were negative, strongly negative about doing that. I don't know why, but they were like, really negative. As an engineer, I gotta believe there is a ton more load on a disc brake to hub interface then there would ever be on a fixed gear to hub interface. Think about going down monster hills. You can definitely go down hills that you couldn't power up. With that in mind, I would expect zero risk for damage or problems going 6 hole drilled gear on hub.

    Concern: This will definitely need work on ensuring that bolts don't break or come loose. This would be a big deal. The problem here is you can't rely on loctite if you want the opportunity to jump from fixed to SS whenever you want to. Is there room for lacing wire with drilled bolts?

    Option #2: Fixed/Disc hub.

    Phil Wood has a Disc / fixed gear hub for sale. Some folks say its okay to use a SS BMX type rachet gear onto a fixed gear dual threadset up, but I've also seen warnings that there isn't really enough thread engagement to do that safely. You'd use regular track gear and lockring for fixed, and SS on the same side of the hub without lockring. Kinda pricey. Not clear if this has the strength & robustness required in Single Speed mode, when the gear cluster only has partial thread engagement.

    Option #3: Design it right. SS/Disc/Fixed hub.

    Awesome idea, great design. Unfortunately, a bit steep in pricing. http://www.levelcomponents.com/index.html I'm not sure the disc rotor design is fully tooled up and in production yet.

    Option #4: Fix/SS flip flop hub with threaded brake disc rotor?

    Does anybody design a brake rotor that will fit on a fixed hub with lockring? Is that even possible? Would it be safe? It would have to look like a rotor at the outer diameter, but look like track gear at the ID. In brake mode, the rotor would be tightening so the directions are correct. The proposal is to use the hub in standard fixie mode, or flipped with a threaded brake rotor on fixed side with lockring and SS side with BMX gear.

    Option #5: Fix/SS flip flop hub without disc brakes

    Sigh. I want cake... and beer. Not just half. And no, I don't want to go rim brakes either (but thanks for asking).


    Anybody been here before? How did you solve dilemma? Comments?
    thanks in advance, Zip

  2. #2
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Posts
    48,236
    Even though you said you did not want to, I would suggest having two different wheels. Easier to swap between fixed and free/disc. May not cost much, if any, more either.

    I was able to build a fixed wheel for around $60.
    My Chester uses the Paul Disk Unit that is attached to the hub axle so the brake is removed with the wheel. Takes me no longer than changing a tire to go from free to fixed and I have no rear brake on frame when in fixed trim.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: paqrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    84
    Option #1: SS/Disc hub with drilled gear.

    I did this last year...check out my bike on the fixed gear gallery.

    Using blue loctite, and checking bolt torque every so often, the gear worked really well. The only downside with this option is if you change gearing frequently - more cogs to drill out. You probably can't drill the 6 bolt onto a cog smaller than a 16 or so.

    Option #5: Fix/SS flip flop hub without disc brakes

    I ended up buying a dedicated wheel earlier this year, because I was riding fixed more often. Since my frame doesn't have disk tabs, it was a no-brainer for me. If fixing off-road isn't your thing, you can always sell off the wheel.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,902
    A standard threaded freewheel disk hub (White Ind, Phils, Spot, Pauls, etc...), leave the rotor on the disc side, and put a Eno freewheel for SS, or a track cog for fixie. You'll have to loctite the track cog, and changing fromf fixie to SS will be a small hassle, but you'll only need one wheel.

    A Shiggy says, 2 wheels is the best solution. I've been running a drilled out bmx cog on a disc mount for over a year, and have not had any issues - have not needed to re-torque any bolts - I don't really see the need since most people don't re-torque disc rotor bolts either.

    Here's my dedicated cog-bolt-on-disc-hub fixie: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=12414

    Cheers,

    Tom

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kiecker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    109
    When I talked to Surly they didn't necessarily say that bolting a cog onto the disc was bad rather that they heard of people doing it but they had not tried it and thus I would be in unchartered waters.

    I have a Surly 1x1 that was originally set up as a SS with disc brakes. When I took the disc off and bolted on a a drilled out Shimano DX cog I found two things. First thing is I intended on keeping my freewheel on incase I wanted to switch the wheel over mid ride. Yes I know I wouldn't have a rear brake but that's not necessarily the end of the world. However I found the teeth on the freewheel interfered with my Juicy Caliper, so I took the freewheel off. The next thing I noticed is that once the wheel and chain tension was dialed in is that the rim was off centered...it was towards the left chainstay. I don't have a caliper but after confirming my belief with Surly the hub from flange to flange is not centered....ie when the wheel was built it has some dish put it to make it straight but now I was essentially undishing it. I still had clearance with my 2.2's so I rode it anyway. It shouldn't be an issue if you think about the number of cassette hubs built as ss with no issues an this wheel even has less dish then those. I have since installed a Boone Ti Cog on the disc. Fit and finish is awesome!! Thanks Brett!! Also note because the hub is not centered flange to flange you'll probably have different chainlines between riding with a freewheel and cog and that spacing of your bottom bracket might be required.

    My intensions are to take my spare rear hub and build up another rear wheel that I will use solely as fixed with the proper dish to recenter the rim within the stays. I will leave my rear caliper on at all time and just choose my wheel according to what I want to ride that day....ss or fixed.....right now I'm really digging fixed Btw, I have had no problems with the red brake pad spacer coming out at all while riding. Clip it in, give it a squeeze and forget about it. I've thought about putting a small hole throught the pull tab and zip tie-ing it for an extra measure though.

    Below is a picture ~Martini~ took during Gnome-Fest.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zipzit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    399
    Nice job on the bike. I have a couple of questions, if that is okay? What gear ratio did you end up with for fixie off road use?

    Also, did you have any problem centering the holes for drilling the steel gear?? I'm hoping that with a drill press, and a sharp scribe and sharp center punch to start the hole, I will be okay? I suspect that one can compensate for hole layout, with a slightly larger diameter hole? (then of course it becomes a pain to center the gear. What would you do?

    thanks,zipzit.
    Metro Detroit

  7. #7
    JJT
    JJT is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JJT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    374
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiecker
    The next thing I noticed is that once the wheel and chain tension was dialed in is that the rim was off centered...it was towards the left chainstay. I don't have a caliper but after confirming my belief with Surly the hub from flange to flange is not centered....ie when the wheel was built it has some dish put it to make it straight but now I was essentially undishing it.
    The disc version should have some dish to center the rim to the hub. A good wheel should be centered in your frame, no matter how you put it in. So if the wheel was centered before you swapped it and not centered afterwards, you have an alignment problem with your frame.

    JJ
    Singlespeed Central - European SS and 29" webshop

  8. #8
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Posts
    48,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiecker
    The next thing I noticed is that once the wheel and chain tension was dialed in is that the rim was off centered...it was towards the left chainstay. I don't have a caliper but after confirming my belief with Surly the hub from flange to flange is not centered....ie when the wheel was built it has some dish put it to make it straight but now I was essentially undishing it.
    hmmmm...
    The build specs on Surly's site says the flange spacing is symmetrical. In any case the rim should be centered over the locknuts.

    With track ends it should be easy to center the wheel in the chainstays, especially when using Tugnuts.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kiecker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    109
    Quote Originally Posted by zipzit
    Nice job on the bike. I have a couple of questions, if that is okay? What gear ratio did you end up with for fixie off road use?

    Also, did you have any problem centering the holes for drilling the steel gear?? I'm hoping that with a drill press, and a sharp scribe and sharp center punch to start the hole, I will be okay? I suspect that one can compensate for hole layout, with a slightly larger diameter hole? (then of course it becomes a pain to center the gear. What would you do?

    thanks,zipzit.
    Metro Detroit
    When I was riding back in MN I was running 34/18....probably could have went with 34/17 or 16. When I came out to CA I started with 34/18 which seemed ok except on long epic climbing rides so I dropped to 34/20. It depends on your terrain but variety is always nice. In reading through 63xc they actually say to run even a taller gear when fixed off road to help control the spin on the downhills. I posted up another thread about this here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=130994

    I just took an old disc and eye sighted it and drilled. My Irish must have come through because it came out pretty damn good. Also with the Surly hub I had to dremel out the splines to get it to fit snug against the hub face. The Boone Cog I now have is awesome.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kiecker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    109
    The wheel was built by a very reputable guy in mpls and I have no doubt that it was done correctly. The frame is only a 2-3 months old and hasn't been crashed or ridden extremely so I can't imagine the frame is out of alignment. I'll see if I can find good shop around here that can inspect both prior to my next wheel build.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: the locust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    263
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiecker
    When I talked to Surly they didn't necessarily say that bolting a cog onto the disc was bad rather that they heard of people doing it but they had not tried it and thus I would be in unchartered waters.

    I have a Surly 1x1 that was originally set up as a SS with disc brakes. When I took the disc off and bolted on a a drilled out Shimano DX cog I found two things. First thing is I intended on keeping my freewheel on incase I wanted to switch the wheel over mid ride. Yes I know I wouldn't have a rear brake but that's not necessarily the end of the world. However I found the teeth on the freewheel interfered with my Juicy Caliper, so I took the freewheel off. The next thing I noticed is that once the wheel and chain tension was dialed in is that the rim was off centered...it was towards the left chainstay. I don't have a caliper but after confirming my belief with Surly the hub from flange to flange is not centered....ie when the wheel was built it has some dish put it to make it straight but now I was essentially undishing it. I still had clearance with my 2.2's so I rode it anyway. It shouldn't be an issue if you think about the number of cassette hubs built as ss with no issues an this wheel even has less dish then those. I have since installed a Boone Ti Cog on the disc. Fit and finish is awesome!! Thanks Brett!! Also note because the hub is not centered flange to flange you'll probably have different chainlines between riding with a freewheel and cog and that spacing of your bottom bracket might be required.

    My intensions are to take my spare rear hub and build up another rear wheel that I will use solely as fixed with the proper dish to recenter the rim within the stays. I will leave my rear caliper on at all time and just choose my wheel according to what I want to ride that day....ss or fixed.....right now I'm really digging fixed Btw, I have had no problems with the red brake pad spacer coming out at all while riding. Clip it in, give it a squeeze and forget about it. I've thought about putting a small hole throught the pull tab and zip tie-ing it for an extra measure though.

    Below is a picture ~Martini~ took during Gnome-Fest.
    i rode this setup during gnome fest and while i was pertty drunk at times i can say that the frame is deftonatly sound and not tweaked at all. i just think he spaced the rear hub inboard a little bit to get a better chainline. FWIW i ordered an iro fixed MTB wheel for $90 for the rear. no disc mounts but i think a back brake screws you up more than it helps when riding fixed. that way i can ride FW with a disc when i want and just swap out the wheel and ride fixed with the caliper still attached.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kiecker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    109
    Quote Originally Posted by the locust
    FWIW i ordered an iro fixed MTB wheel for $90 for the rear. no disc mounts but i think a back brake screws you up more than it helps when riding fixed. that way i can ride FW with a disc when i want and just swap out the wheel and ride fixed with the caliper still attached.
    YEAH!!!!! Keep me posted on how you like riding the trails fixed

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.