ENO SS Cranks / Phil Wood BB Stiffness?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    86

    ENO SS Cranks / Phil Wood BB Stiffness?

    Has anyone seen any stiffness test on a White Industries SS crank / Phil Wood stainless square taper bottom bracket as compared to other external bearing / integrated BB cranks?

    I have seen a couple of posts comparing other square taper bb's to ISIS and external bearing bb's. However, it seems that the quality of the square taper and cranks can make a significant difference. I suspect the white industries / phil wood combo is stiffer than some $5 wal-mart special.

    Do the different stiffness ratings of the various bb / cranks matter? At a certain point won't frame flex become much greater than the bb / crank interface? I guess that also depends on the frame and rider size / power.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,438

    My experience

    on my old SS PW/SYCIP I have a PW square taper with old XT arms.

    on my new SS Sycip I have the 05 XT Hollowtech II cranks, with the external bearings which are suppose to be stiffer.

    I can't tell the difference, put the power to the pedal and the bike goes forward, no flex.

    I think a better question for you would be, how long do you want your BB to last?

    Get the PW and you'll never mess with it again.

  3. #3
    bike geek
    Reputation: tamjam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,051
    Quote Originally Posted by aukmal
    Has anyone seen any stiffness test on a White Industries SS crank / Phil Wood stainless square taper bottom bracket as compared to other external bearing / integrated BB cranks?
    I have both- the ENO/PW on my steel 1x3, and the external bearing XTR on my scandium geary. Both are plenty stiff, and I can't tell a difference between them. Put them through some standardized mechanical test and I imagine you may find the XTR to be stiffer, but my seat-of-the-pants experience tells me they're more or less the same.

  4. #4
    I wasn't Kung Fu fighting
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    152

    WI/PW vs XTR

    I have used the WI ENO cranks, with a wood bb. I have had XTR on my geared, and now I RF Dues external BB. I cannot tell the difference between the Dues and the XTR, but I certainly could tell when I got on the single. I thought it was a horribly flexy combination. I had to use a long spindle, but the crank arms felt as if they flexed as much as the bb spindle. It was so bad, they are gonzo.

    I am not a WI hater... in fact i'm a lover. I use their ss hubs, and freewheel, which I think are some of the best going. I wanted to like the cranks... I am 190lbs and a gear masher for sure. So if you are a fellow clydesdale, I would avoid, go with octalink or issue at the bare minimum.

  5. #5
    bike geek
    Reputation: tamjam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,051
    Quote Originally Posted by bykegnurd
    I have used the WI ENO cranks, with a wood bb. I have had XTR on my geared, and now I RF Dues external BB. I cannot tell the difference between the Dues and the XTR, but I certainly could tell when I got on the single. I thought it was a horribly flexy combination. I had to use a long spindle, but the crank arms felt as if they flexed as much as the bb spindle. It was so bad, they are gonzo.
    Well there you have it..two completely different opinions on the subject
    FWIW, I'm only 165 and a very "light" rider, as in very easy on my components.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,438

    Me on the other hand.

    am or was a heavier rider and break things, lots of things. Although my opinion is no more valid than bikenerd, I'd be interested to know what type of geared frame and wheel set up he's running vs the set up on his single speed? Frame and wheel flex play a big part in how a crank may feel, especially if you're in the 190 lb area. That's one reason I mentioned my frames for both SS's are very similiar.

  7. #7
    I wasn't Kung Fu fighting
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    152

    wheel setup

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger___
    am or was a heavier rider and break things, lots of things. Although my opinion is no more valid than bikenerd, I'd be interested to know what type of geared frame and wheel set up he's running vs the set up on his single speed? Frame and wheel flex play a big part in how a crank may feel, especially if you're in the 190 lb area. That's one reason I mentioned my frames for both SS's are very similiar.

    Both of my frames are made of ti, from the same builder, with almost the exact same dimensions and tube specs. The geary uses uses X517's, 32 hole, 3X with dt comp's and brass nips. The SS uses X517's, 32 hole, 3X with dt comp's and brass nips. I run Nokian NBX on both, 2.3, with 38 psi. I couldn't imagine a better test case. Sometimes it seemed like I could see the cranks flexing on step climbs when I was mashing.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,438

    Well there you go...

    thanks for the follow up information. I think with both our scenerios and opinions we left him right where he started!

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,662
    Still a lot of variables there Roger__ & bykegnurd.
    I have these combo's on my SS (Phil Wood SS) & Geary (Blur) and don't notice or feel flex is an issue in either case.
    - I'm using 34/18 as my ratio, what about you bykegnurd?

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger___
    thanks for the follow up information. I think with both our scenerios and opinions we left him right where he started!
    I appreciate the responses, personal experience is a valuable tool to evaluate equipment. I'm also looking for any controlled test data. Let me know if you happen to come across anything like this.

  11. #11
    I wasn't Kung Fu fighting
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    152

    Real test data?

    I run a 32 x 16.

    I remember back when I first started mtn biking, we used to be bombarded with 'real test data'. Basically the more test data we had, the sooner it would break. Kooka had a ton of test data, I could break a set of those cranks by looking at it the wrong way. I had a cannondale dealer spew test data for 45 minutes on how strong their new coda cranks were, when they came out. My buddy fell for it. He broke the crank arm bunny hopping up a curb.

    I think the lack of test data has helped out the industry, things seem to last a lot longer with out it. Either that or cold forging.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mckeand13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    245

    Try some Profile chromoly's!

    Profile chromoly cranks are crazy stiff. I used to have them on my IF before switching to Truvativs. No comparison in stiffness but they are super heavy.

    I like ISIS and haven't had any problems with the bb's yet.

    I don't think you'll notice spindle flex as much as you'll notice torsional flex between various crank arms.

    My 2cents.
    It's only weird because it's not normal.

    PROJECT | ONE

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PinsNeedles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    687

    I have this setup

    On my SSVulture 29er.
    I went from Truvativ 180 stylos with an Isis BB ( flexy with bad bearings) to a steel 125 mm spindled Phil BB and 180mm ENO cranks.
    I didn't think I would go back to square taper but so far so good...
    Light, sexy, smooth and stiff is what I think so far and I'm 6' 3" 180lbs.
    No data, just passion.
    ' Bend's dirtiest Acupuncturist '

    bendoregonsinglespeeders

    teamwebcyclery

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    86
    Quote Originally Posted by PinsNeedles
    On my SSVulture 29er.
    I went from Truvativ 180 stylos with an Isis BB ( flexy with bad bearings) to a steel 125 mm spindled Phil BB and 180mm ENO cranks.
    I didn't think I would go back to square taper but so far so good...
    Light, sexy, smooth and stiff is what I think so far and I'm 6' 3" 180lbs.
    No data, just passion.
    I converted my Voodoo Dambala-853 version (29er) from a set of SS Shimano LX external bb cranks to the Phil Wood / White Ind. setup. I put about 40 miles on this new setup this weekend and did not notice any difference in stiffness. Most of the mileage was on typical SoCal steep up climbing (e.g. Willows at Laguna Wilderness & the Three B's at Santiago Oaks) / steep down technical.

    Like a great thinker once said, "...at the very least, you are supporting a culture of men making products with their hands, not machine made, mass produced stuff..." I agree with PinsNeedles, light, sexy, smooth, and stiff.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    355
    I'm running 180mm ENO cranks with a stainless axle/alloy body PW SS BB on my Fango SS, 175mm XT 760 cranks on a geared FS demo bike, 175mm XTR cranks on another geared FS demo bike and I have most recently put in a few days on another bike with 170mm FSA X Drive Bash (the new aluminum model) with their Platinum Pro MegaQuad BB. I have not noticed any flex in any of the above systems, which is a definite improvement over the older XT Octalink and other Shimano square taper setups that I have on other bikes.

    My thoughts are as follows:

    Pick the ENO (or a custom from Lennard Zinn) if you want something other than a 175. You might as well forget about any weight issues and focus instead on the fact that it will be stiff enough, and with the addition of a PW SS BB will also require less maintenance that just about anything else on the market. Use some Boone Ti rings if you want extra bling and/or chainring durability.

    Pick Jeff Jones' cut-down and polished (or Scotch-brited) XTR cranks with Boone Ti rings if you want the lightest solution.

    Pick a non-chopped and channeled XTR crank with the Jericho or other bash adapters that go on the outer side if you want something a bit burlier and/or don't want the extra cost of the Jones unit and don't mind a more normal gram count.

    Pick anything else if you are less of a picky bastard than my customers and I are.

Similar Threads

  1. What spindle length for phil wood bb and rf turbine?
    By Mighty Drop Off in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-25-2005, 12:09 PM
  2. Crank stiffness question...
    By TheSingleGuy in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-07-2005, 04:54 PM
  3. SB and Phil Wood BB
    By ryman in forum Titus
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-01-2004, 05:47 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-15-2004, 07:07 AM
  5. Prototype steel Phil Wood SS
    By crosschain in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-24-2004, 04:37 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.