Egg Beaters- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: Egg Beaters

  1. #1
    Low Rep Count
    Reputation: 1SPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,958

    Egg Beaters

    Ok, so I am looking at shaving some weight on my bike and have started researching pedals. I am looking at picking up a used set of Egg Beater 2 ti pedals off ebay and then ordering some ti axles and ti springs for them. I am thinking that this should get me down to about the 170g mark if you will.

    It will all depend on how much I can pick up the pedals for mind you as to whether or not it is worth going this route or just ording a set of 4ti pedals. So we will see how the auctions go.

    My question however is how durable are these pedals? I have heard of guys riding them for years with no problems and also of guys snapping axles, springs... So I am trying to figure out if it is even worth it at this point to continue on with this project.

    I have been riding the same Speedplay frog pedals for at least the past 6 years and have had no problems with them but knowing that I can shave some weight I figured I would look into this a little further.

    I have riddne SPD's and really do not like them at all. I have been a Speedplay guy since they came out and this is only the second pair of Frogs I have owned. (sold the first pair with the bike years ago) I have had 3 different pairs on my road bikes as well (sold off as I got different bikes) Never broke a single pair in anyway. But finding Ti axles for the Frogs has been a futile search thus far.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,510
    How much do you weigh? I weigh 190 and broke a ti pair and a steel pair. I will never ride them again

  3. #3
    Low Rep Count
    Reputation: 1SPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,958
    I'm at about 188 right now but come in around 170 during the summer when riding every day. My plan is to be back down there again this year. I figure I can ride my Frogs until I get back down in weight.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jnails's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    260
    I love the pedals when they are working.....

    The springs on 3 different sets have snapped on mine. One pair has been back to Crank Bros over 3 times now. Were talking pedals no older then 15 months here and I take care of my stuff pretty well. Crank bros is great about fixing them and sending them back to me, but you have a couple weeks without them and you pay shipping to California.

    Like I said, they are good when working - just make sure you have a spare cheaper set for when you have to send your back. When that spring goes you better hope your not hours from the car because riding back on that little sliver of nothing is no fun. This year I may go XTR route - the new ones look like the heat.

  5. #5
    nothing to see here
    Reputation: Stevob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,271
    I've come to the acceptance that despite having broken one spring and needing to replace cleats every six months or sooner, I'll never be happy with any other pedal while riding.

    I've tried frogs (too many missed/half clip ins) and spds (no float and crap with mud) to no avail.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevob
    I've tried frogs (too many missed/half clip ins) and spds (no float and crap with mud) to no avail.
    when was the last time you were on spd's? my '10 XTRs have plenty of float and lots of mud clearance and I have smashed the crap out of them. i'm a time pedal guy but they are so much money to get at a decent weight. the PD-M540's are a great deal easily found at less than $60/325 grams.

  7. #7
    nothing to see here
    Reputation: Stevob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,271
    To be honest, it's probably over 5 years since I tried spd's. If I can try before I buy, next time around, I'll consider them but I'm not going to get burnt again like I did with the frogs.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  8. #8
    Did I catch a niner+?
    Reputation: Mr Pink57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,954
    I have a pair of the SL's and I weight 220lbs. I have more then once put my entire weight on a single pedal and nothing bent or broke. I did finally break one though out at Levis-Trow in WI. I smacked a rock or a log not sure but the whole spring mechanism broke. I now ride Candies since I think they would have avoided this whole mess (biked almost 20 miles on one eggbeater) if there was some sort of protection around the pedal. CB was nice enough to warranty the pedal at no charge (expect shipping there).

    So my suggestion to you is get something with a little protection around the spring. I still use these pedals but mainly for road riding or now on my new Fisticuff.

    I also have a pair of Time Atac Z's that I keep around for others to use (have a set of shoes also). Most people love these pedals I do not however. I think the spring is too tight and is very hard to get your foot out, I also did not like the platform too much.
    Mr. Krabs: Is it true, Squidward? Is it hilarious?

  9. #9
    Low Rep Count
    Reputation: 1SPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,958
    I guess that is how I feel about the Frogs. Mine have worked great since day one. I will admit that I don't like the newer cleats but have since gotten used to them. The cleats aren't as adjustable as they used to be but I have adapted. I just want something a little bit lighter. I mean, to know that I can get some pedals down to about 170 grams compared to my current 250 is awesome and I will probably give it a shot anyway. But it all depends on what the pedals end up costing to start with.

    I haven't been on SPD's for years but I know they aren't as light as what I already have so they just aren't on my list.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: alshead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,593
    So.... just to be THAT guy. Stainless Frogs weigh 250 grams. Ti Frogs weigh 205 grams. You want to spend I don't know what kind of money to shave 35 to 80 grams (I assume you're on Stainless Frogs). There are 453.5 grams in a pound. 80 grams is like a sixth of a pound. I like to watch the weight of things on my bike, but I am, by no means, a weight weenie, so I understand that, sometimes, I just don't get it. If your body weight fluctuates by 20lbs from winter to summer, why not just lose an extra pound (or an extra sixth of a pound, for that matter)? There are lots of places (seatpost, tires, wheels, etc) where you could lose a LOT of weight on your bike, but unless you're trying to meet some magic goal (sub 20 lbs) and you've done EVERYTHING else, this seems kinda silly.

    Oh- and FWIW- if you've been riding Frogs, you will not think that SPD's have ANY float (even the new stuff). Riding on Frogs is like standing on an ice cube- no centering spring retention. Times, SPD's and others claim bigger float, but those numbers are before release, though a bit of that rotation is fighting against spring retention, which is not good for the knees if you have bad knees (why most people end up in Frogs- they have what Speedplay calls "Non-centering Free Float")- Crank Bros are the closest thing you'll find with ample float, plus the 15/20 degree option before release.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by cbrock450
    How much do you weigh? I weigh 190 and broke a ti pair and a steel pair. I will never ride them again
    maybe i'm lucky. i weigh just over 200 and have been on eggbeaters for the past 7 years or so (shortly after they came out) and have never broken one.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: johnrobholmes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    120
    I've been a Time guy for about ten years. SPDs clogged up on me too much, and I didn't like the feel of the speedplay. Never tried the Eggbeaters, just happened to be the last one that hasn't gotten tried yet.

  13. #13
    Low Rep Count
    Reputation: 1SPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,958
    ok GUY

    Here is the deal. I have a bid of $45 on a set of used 2 ti EB's right now. I have my doubts that they will go for that and suspect the price will climb. While doing some searching today I found the following:

    I can pick up ti spindles for $55
    I can get ti springs for them for $60.

    So if the pedals went for say $50 I would have spent $160 to shave about 80g. Ridiculous, I agree. However, I need to get my wife a set of pedals for her bike. Actually I already bought her a pair (for Christmas) but if I were to go this route I would just stick my Frogs on her bike.

    I picked up a full carbon seat yeasterday for $90 and a used KCNC post for $80 (basically it is brand new). Those two alone shaved almost 230g.

    I will be ordering some new rotors to put on the bike in the spring. KCNC's for $35ea and that will shave another 150 grams over what is on my bike now (combined). I will also go ahead and order a ti rotor bolt kit for $22 and a ti brake bolt kit for another $30. Granted neither of those will shave much weight but since I have to take the rotors off anyway, why not just stick new bolts on there. As for the brake bolts, well, when I got the calipers used from a friend, I had to parts together a bunch of different bolts so it will just be nice to have ones that all match instead of multiple colors and lengths, why not ti at that point.

    For the most part, I have some fairly light parts already and there are only say 10 grams here or 15 there after that. Which means my next big item to attack are my wheels/tires. I normally run RK SS during the summer which are pretty light as it is. My wheels are Velocity VXC w/ 14g spokes, brass nipples, and WI hubs and a trials FW. Yes, there is weight to shave there for sure. But the wheels were built for me by a friend and have proven to be damn near bomb proof. You can put more tension on them with the brass nipples and I have not had to adjust anything on them after an entire season of riding. I will probably build up another set of wheels with lighter hubs. Perhaps DT Swiss. Not sure what rims at this point. It is not worth it to me to go carbon as I just don't have that sort of money to throw at this.

    As for my weight swing. Well, I am and have been into lifting. For years while a roadie I was a wopping 136 lbs. I got stationed in Panama and had no where to ride. My weight shot up to 160 in one year because all I did was go to he gym. I have since been in and out of the gym. I am a personal trainer part time and when I couldn't ride as much due to my daughters soccer schedule I went back into the gym. I started bulking up just like I did last winter (peaked at 194, but rode myself back down to 168 or so). I am currently sitting at 186 right now. My goal is to stay there over the winter and then go through a lean out process in the spring. This is more about getting that beach body than anything. It will be the first time I run myself through a cutting cycle with a friend of mine that has a body building comp in late March. So why not. I get to help a friend and at the same time get somewhat ripped myself. So that pretty much explains my weight fluctuation.

    Help that helps some.

    As for spending that much money to convert my Frogs, well, I don't think so. A rep from Speedplay called my house about an hour ago to respond to an email question I sent earlier today. Quite awesome actually. None the less, the retail price for the ti spindles is like $160. I am sure I can get a discount from my friends shop if I have him order them but I am not going to pay some $120 to shave 50 grams and then still have to buy my wife a set of pedals.

    I thought about picking up a new chain for the spring as well but due to running a trials freewheel, I have to run an 8 spd chain (3/32). I was planning on picking up a KMC x10sl but I already know that a 10spd chain will not fit after trying to slip my campy one on there that I had in the garage from an old bike. So I am stuck there as well since there aren't many light 8spd chains. Once again, things are point to a wheel upgrade if you will.

    Eventually, I will get some sort of frame. I thought about doing an ebay carbon frame just because alot of people seem to be having good luck with them but I know I will not be happy. So, i will sock some money away and shoot to pick up something ti by this time next year.

    As far as SPD's go, I don't like them because of the float issue. I understand exactly what you are talking about as far as fighting the tension to get some float out of them. That is why I never road Look pedals on my road bike (ride speedplays on the road as well, back when I had a road bike anyway)

    Wow, that should be worth like 3 posts right there!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    593
    What type of shoe do you wear? Carbon sole or plastic/flexible sole? The reason for this is....I ran into a problem with the regular eggbeaters on long epics and mashing gears. I wear more of a hybrid shoe (Specialized Taho) that has a more "flexible sole". This caused my 2 pinky toes on my right foot (power leg??) to go numb occasionally from the flex. I switched to the new Candy 3's and have not had this problem at all, plus added protection from bashing rocks, of which I've done many times.

  15. #15
    Ovaries on the Outside
    Reputation: umarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,366
    Quote Originally Posted by 1SPD
    ok GUY

    Wow, that should be worth like 3 posts right there!
    Yeah, no ****ing kidding.

    If you rode with me I'd tease you mercilessly for trying to shave off the weight. Oh, **** it. Just stop shaving the weight off the bike. That GT is swank. It looks good. It is lighter than any GT that has even existed at this point.

    I thought every SSer had a little angry retrogrouch angel on his/her shoulder that reminded them that by going SS- often rigid- they were defying the **** the man has dumped down their throats (I looked for a euphemism for this on urban dictionary, but..) in promos and ads for the latest and greatest.

    We're the ******bags that wrung what we've (collectively) brung and say it is enough.

    Also, spend less on gear, more on beer.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rob_co2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    564
    I have 3 sets of time pedals, all are about 10 years old and still work perfect. Unfortunately all are over 400g. Its tempting to drop a 1/2 pound for pretty cheap, but the number of broken egg beaters just seems ridiculous, and not worth losing a race or ruining a long ride. Maybe if the candy's are more reliable I'll go with them.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: johnrobholmes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    120
    What about drilling out the Time pedals a bit Seems like a risky enough endeavor to be fun.
    owner, Holmes Bikes

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtnbikerfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    224
    Time XS Ti Carbon's are only 288g and are a helvalot more reliable than the CB's
    Giant Trance Advanced SL0
    Black Cat 26 " SS

  19. #19
    Rollin 29s
    Reputation: isleblue65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    874
    At least for me, the weight weenie thing was a challenge, like trying to get more horsepower out of a car by lightening the flywheel and shaving/ balancing other rotating components (a project I'm working on now).

    I got carried away with weight when I first got my current bike, swapped out many aluminum parts for carbon or Ti, turned it to 1x9 to lose another 2 pounds, went tubeless on light weight wheels and tires, and had bragging rights for a while. The reality for me was that I don't really need the bike to be that light. I don't race, and I could easily lose 15 pounds and make a heck of a lot more impact on what I'm hauling up the hill.

    I've gradually added more durable components (heavier) as the weenie parts bend or break, or blow out sidewalls. In the long run, I'm going to have the durable stuff still functioning on the bike, and in most cases it costs a lot less than it's weaker weight weenie counterparts that lasts a year if you are lucky.

    I understand the gearhead allure of spending lots of dough to earn a place along side the few others who have 20 lb bikes, and it's fun trying to get there. However, unless you are paid to race, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to make it a requirement to replace those broken expensive, fragile ultra-light parts with more expensive, fragile ultra-light parts.

    As far as pedals go. I've had SPDs, Frogs and now Egg Beaters. Frogs shattered within a month of owning them. I liked the float, but threw them in the garbage due to durability. SPDs are bullet proof, but I was never impressed with mud clearing. However, these remained my choice for 10+ years. I put Egg Beaters on my new bike just over a year ago and I love the float, mud clearing and ease of entry/ exit. Much easier to click in and out of than SPDs.

    Recently when my beaters started clicking which I thought at the time was bearings going bad, but turned out to be spindle threads that needed grease, I swapped them for my old PD-M535s (SPD). All it took was one ride to convince me to put my beaters back on. The float was nonexistant, they were stiff clicking in and out, mud prevented me from clicking in, and having 2 sides vs 4 sides makes a HUGE difference in accuracy and ease of finding the target, especially when you have to - such as starting off and trying to click in up a technical section on a hill.

    I doubt that Egg Beaters will be as durable long term as SPDs, and in fact one of the beaters is concaved a bit from a hard impact with a rock. This doesn't seem to affect ease of engagement, float or staying locked in.

    I'm an Egg Beater convert, and can't see going back.
    Whoever invented the bicycle deserves the thanks of humanity.
    - Lord Charles Beresford

  20. #20
    nothing to see here
    Reputation: Stevob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,271
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikerfred
    Time XS Ti Carbon's are only 288g and are a helvalot more reliable than the CB's
    sounds competitive. price?
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  21. #21
    master blaster
    Reputation: veloreality's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,149
    my eggbeaters broke.
    3 pairs out of 5.
    go shimano.

  22. #22
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,657
    I've been riding Egg Beaters since the week they were introduced back in the '90s. Probably have 15 pair... on many bikes. Never broken one (knock on wood) but have worn several out. Prior to wearing out, I maintained them as needed to keep them running as long as possible (rebuild kits). Eggs shed mud much better than the SPD pedals I rode before switching. Snow, too. Eggs are so light I can't imagine shelling out for the ti versions... not worth it IMO... and besides, I'm probably 220# geared up and just don't want to risk snapping a spindle. The softish brass cleats wear out comparatively quickly, not a deal breaker for me.

    --sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  23. #23
    Low Rep Count
    Reputation: 1SPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,958
    I had my GT down to 20.4 lbs earlier this season. But that was with a 2.1 on the ront and a 1.8 on the rear. While the bike was fast, I had to be very careful with the rear wheel and there is nothing but frickn roots out there in MD. I found that the bike was just as fast with my 2.2 SS RK's and will go back to them in the spring.

    There is definitely some room to shave weight in my wheelset but but that would mean going with a rim like the DT XR350 at 350g. That is 70g lighter per rim over what I have. But I would be giving up my eyelits to get that weight. I could also shave some weight in the hubs I am sure. But running a DT240 or Tune is just ridiculous. I can't even come close to thinking about paying that sort of money for a hub. I may just look into building a new front wheel with a lighter rim/hub and save a little cash but still get a reduction out of the deal.

    Right now I am only planning on the following:
    Carbon seat (awaiting arrival)
    KCNC post (awaiting arrival)
    Paul Love levers
    KCNC rotors
    Ti bolt kit for rotors
    Ti bolt kit for brake calipers
    Ti water bottle bolts
    New chain, probably a sram 8spd as my KMC is huge!
    New ESI grips in black (already have them in green but they look like ass since they are always dirty)
    New Gore cables in black (current ones are white and match my seat but the seat is changing and I don't like the look-came with my brakes so I didn't bother to change back then)

    I may swap out the tires in the spring and try something else along with some super light tubes. I say try something else as far as tires, more so to go tubeless as running stans in SS RK tires is a bit of a pain to get to seal. At least that has been my experience with my current set.

    That being said, I don't have that much more money left to spend. I have pretty much given up on my pedal conversion unless I just happen to win the pair that I have a bid in on of $45. If I do win, then I would probably go ahead and get the ti axles for them and just stick my frogs on my wifes bike and return the ones I already bought for her.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Sorry I'm late to the party.

    My knees rebelled several years ago after riding spuds for many years. Eggbeaters solved the problem with their glorious, unsprung float. It will be a cold day in hell when I give them up. I now run Eggbeaters on all my bikes and they've been very solid. However, I've found there are a couple key things in making Eggbeaters last:

    - Don't by the cheap ones, since they're cheap for a reason. It's similar to plastic pedals versus quality aluminum platforms; they both look basically the same, but one won't last. Buy at least the SL.

    - They require more maintenance than other pedals, but maintenance is extremely easy to do.

    - I think the Ti pedals from CB might be a little iffy. Check out the Ti-62222s spindles from http://www.titaniumspindles.com/ as they're cheaper and definitely seem to be stronger and last longer.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    82
    Reading through this reminded me of my own bottle openers. I'm pretty sure I cringed at coughing up $90... that was 7 years ago?

    Shave grams? sure, I guess I scrape enough rocks for that.



  26. #26
    Ovaries on the Outside
    Reputation: umarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,366
    Quote Originally Posted by 1SPD
    I had my GT down to 20.4 lbs earlier this season.
    I was thinking about your predicament, and I came up with a solution. Buy this and have at your spokes and you'll be under 20lbs in no time. Might smooth out the roots, too.

  27. #27
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,631
    as stated earlier by others....

    I have eggies in the chromo, SL, 2Ti and 4Ti
    I have run them for 6+ years
    I have never 'broke' a pair
    I have had to rebuild 2 pair of SL's
    I weight 185 nekkid
    They shed mud like crazy
    The cleats wear fast
    I broke some carbon soled shoes....you'll need a 'flexier' sole.
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    193
    to each their own. riding on EB's makes me feel like i'm sliding around on loose ball bearings. pedals are one component that I'm not worried too much about weight. if i snapped a spindle i'd go ape******

  29. #29
    Low Rep Count
    Reputation: 1SPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,958
    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    I was thinking about your predicament, and I came up with a solution. Buy this and have at your spokes and you'll be under 20lbs in no time. Might smooth out the roots, too.
    I actually have a pair of those already though I never thought about using them on my spokes. Good thinking. Thanks for the idea.

  30. #30
    Low Rep Count
    Reputation: 1SPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,958
    Quote Originally Posted by nmanchin
    to each their own. riding on EB's makes me feel like i'm sliding around on loose ball bearings. pedals are one component that I'm not worried too much about weight. if i snapped a spindle i'd go ape******
    If you think EB's feel like loose ball bearings wait until you ride a set of Speedplays for the first time.

  31. #31
    Ride,Smile, Pedal Damn it
    Reputation: henrymiller1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    552

    Go Eggbeater

    If you like you current pedals, don't change them. I'd spend weight money elsewhere. I had two pairs of cheap eggbeaters and they broke. Then i bought the Eggbeater SL's and have not problems. Jenson has a closeout on the Smarty SL for $39, usually about $100.

  32. #32
    Low Rep Count
    Reputation: 1SPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,958
    So far no one else has bid on the EB's I have a bid on but we have about 1 day left. I suspect I will get out bid as $45 was my max offer. I won't cry if I don't win as I am going to start socking some funds away to build another wheel set by spring.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RMcjd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    133
    Don't upgrade to Ti spindles if riding singlespeed. I broke one after 6 months on riding SS. I weigh 160lbs fully loaded. I never hit anything that I was aware of. My foot just suddenly became detached form the crank with the pedal still attached to my shoe. It was a clean break right at the first rubber seal. I contacted Crank Brothers for warranty and the rep told me to get the steel spindles if I was singlespeeding. They were having problem with Ti spindles at the time. They sent me a new pair within the week and i've had no problems after a full season on them.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: idaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    499
    I also broke a steel spindle, 170lbs SSing. That was he straw that broke this camel's back. The pedals got sloppy after time with excessive (to me) play. I also disliked the pedals proclivity to discharge the cleats when a rock is struck, a rather freequent occurence in AZ.
    If you want a disposable pedal that's lightweight and good in the mud the EB is your pedal. But if you're invested as much in race results and training as you are bike weight I'd replace them every season or look for some Shimano or Times.
    Cheers,
    M

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: masterofnone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    1,239
    I would stick with cromoly spindle eggbeaters, the ti versions are for lighter riders or race day, using them on a SS is especially risky I think. I swap the same pair of mallets between all my mountain bikes, I like the stability of a wide platform and don't give a **** about the extra weight. I use wide road pedals on the roadie but swap them for cromoly eggbeaters in winter, I'm thinking of trying some candies for the wider platform. The bushings wear out after a while, you can buy a rebuild kit for a fraction of the cost of a new set. I broke an eggbeater once hitting a rock a long time ago, I think anything less than my mallets would have been roached though.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.