Eccentric bb? Or paragon sliding dropouts?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Eccentric bb? Or paragon sliding dropouts?

    Your take? Anyone?

  2. #2
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    ebb's apparently weigh a bit more
    paragon's are so ugly that I flat out won't buy another bike with them (although they are incredibly easy to work with!)
    both have "suffered slippage" depending on who's talking about them.

    only type that seems foolproof are the pinch-bolt ebb's.
    remember, the paragon is basically a track-style horizontal dropout, with another plate bolted into the slots, that other plate is what your axle and brakes attach to.
    unfortunately; the very definition of "looking like an afterthought".
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  3. #3
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    Click "search."

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  4. #4
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    I'm in the process of having a SS frame/fork built up and did a lot of research as to what would be best for me. I'm running cantilever brakes, so I went with an EBB because I didn't want to adjust the brakes every time I adjusted the tension. Plus, I'm very specific about the geometry (wheelbase) of the bike so EBB worked better for me.

  5. #5
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    EBB - if you're deaf and can't hear the creaking.

    Sliders - if you want something that works right and don't care what it looks like.

  6. #6
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    go swinging drop-outs
    Todd at BlackCat Bicycles makes one of the sexiest and easiest to use adjustable dropouts.
    I had a custom built for me last year and had my builder contact Todd and order a set of his drop outs. much cleaner look than Paragon. they make teh rear end look like a standard rear end rather than the Pargon that make it look like the whole drop out will snap off the stays on big drop
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    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

  7. #7
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    I have had sliders,track ends,ebb and pinch bolt ebb. The phil wood pinch bolt has been the best by far for me, no creaking and no slippage.

  8. #8
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    None of my EBBs have ever creaked. Phil Wood on 2 bikes, and unknown on an Avanti KISS 29 I keep in Oz.

    I suspect a lot of the problem with creaking is people overtightening the bolts and ovalising the BB shell. They'll never work properly after that.

    As for light, the option offered by Niner looks pretty good, but I haven't tried it.

    BTW I have had 3 different makes of bikes with sliders, and they're ok, but inferior to EBBs IMO.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    None of my EBBs have ever creaked. Phil Wood on 2 bikes, and unknown on an Avanti KISS 29 I keep in Oz.

    I suspect a lot of the problem with creaking is people overtightening the bolts and ovalising the BB shell. They'll never work properly after that.

    As for light, the option offered by Niner looks pretty good, but I haven't tried it.

    BTW I have had 3 different makes of bikes with sliders, and they're ok, but inferior to EBBs IMO.

    Funny you mention the Niner Biocentric, as that's the most creaky version I've had. It holds chain tension, but creaks horribly. If you overtighten this style EBB it won't ovalize the shell. (and yes, I installed properly with a torque wrench)

    Now I've got a Bushnell in there which works better, but still makes some noise.

    The sliders on my new bike are silent.

  10. #10
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    I just purchased an IF Ti Deluxe frame and decided to go with a Phil Wood EBB. I just never liked the sliders. And I have a hard time believing the slider setup is lighter than a hollowed-out aluminum EBB insert.

  11. #11
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    I have had a good experience with sliding drops. I think I prefer changing my chainstay length to changing my bb height not to mention the issue of clearance. Also, paragon drops are cheap and easy to replace.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonzinmj
    ...not to mention the issue of clearance. ...
    "...issue of clearance." What is this? Thanks.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by smaxor
    The phil wood pinch bolt has been the best by far for me, no creaking and no slippage.
    The Phil Wood is normally in a set screw shell (or at least mine is) - I've never seen one in a split (in other words a pinch bolt) shell.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    Funny you mention the Niner Biocentric, as that's the most creaky version I've had. It holds chain tension, but creaks horribly...
    That's good info.

    It's good that it holds the chain tension.

    The creaking is interesting. One of my reservations about the Niner is that there would have to be exactly parallel faces on the BB for it to work, not a problem for those of us who face our BBs, but also the thickness of the BB shell would determine the surface area on which the Niner EBB would bear. My thoughts were that a thin shell may not have enough surface area.

    As a matter of interest was your BB faced and what was the make of bike?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    That's good info.

    It's good that it holds the chain tension.

    The creaking is interesting. One of my reservations about the Niner is that there would have to be exactly parallel faces on the BB for it to work, not a problem for those of us who face our BBs, but also the thickness of the BB shell would determine the surface area on which the Niner EBB would bear. My thoughts were that a thin shell may not have enough surface area.

    As a matter of interest was your BB faced and what was the make of bike?

    The frame is a Niner One9 so that shouldn't be the issue.

    Facing the BB might help, but there's a few issues here.
    a. The install instructions say nothing about it. (if facing is required, you'd think Niner would specify this as an install step)
    b. Good luck finding a bike shop that will do it. Most don't have that size facing tool unless they regularly work on tandems.
    c. What happens if you remove too much material? Wouldn't this cause issues with the crankset? (i.e. the bb could end up being too skinny)

    Since the Biocentric came out, they've updated the install instructions to add some of the "tricks" many of us have tried or heard of. For example, wrapping it with Teflon tape, counter sinking the tension bolt hole, rounding the inside edge of the BB, and they've upped the bolt torque from 120lbs to 190lbs.

    I'm pretty happy with my Bushnell, so I haven't re-installed the Biocentric with all these tricks, but I'll give it a try one of these days. Maybe these solve the creak...

  16. #16
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    I should have been clearer. Every EBB BB tube I have seen is enormous. So while it doesn't mean lower BB height, it does mean that you have this giant tube to worry about with every rock you drop. The pinch bolts being under there too worries me.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    ...b. Good luck finding a bike shop that will do it. Most don't have that size facing tool unless they regularly work on tandems.
    c. What happens if you remove too much material? Wouldn't this cause issues with the crankset? (i.e. the bb could end up being too skinny)...
    Thanks for that, it's even more interesting, you'd think Niner would have it sorted on their own design of bike.

    Facing could be done by an engineering workshop. It generally does not need a lot of metal to be removed on a decent frame, and it's simple to get a couple of shims on the bottom bracket bearings to take up any difference.

    My thoughts were that the Niner EBB really needed a taper on the EBB and a similar taper cut into the shell to give sufficient surface area - a bit like the Schlumpf Mountaindrive..


    Quote Originally Posted by jonzinmj
    I should have been clearer. Every EBB BB tube I have seen is enormous. So while it doesn't mean lower BB height, it does mean that you have this giant tube to worry about with every rock you drop. The pinch bolts being under there too worries me.
    Not a problem, your chainring bends over and protects them when you case your bike
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Click "search."

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    Click "fix the damn search function so I can search for 'EBB' " !

    or any other 3 character word FFS.
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter916
    go swinging drop-outs
    Todd at BlackCat Bicycles makes one of the sexiest and easiest to use adjustable dropouts.
    I had a custom built for me last year and had my builder contact Todd and order a set of his drop outs. much cleaner look than Paragon. they make teh rear end look like a standard rear end rather than the Pargon that make it look like the whole drop out will snap off the stays on big drop

    a little off topic here....

    I now understand your signature, My Al stem decided to break the Friday before spring break and Amazon didn't ship my parts until after spring break......
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonzinmj
    I should have been clearer. Every EBB BB tube I have seen is enormous. So while it doesn't mean lower BB height, it does mean that you have this giant tube to worry about with every rock you drop. The pinch bolts being under there too worries me.
    Umm, only if your chainring is of a smaller diameter than your BB shell.
    Responds to gravity

  21. #21
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    I'm a big ebb fan - a well made one looked after properly should never slip or creak.

    Phil Wood is normally in a set screw shell (or at least mine is) - I've never seen one in a split (in other words a pinch bolt) shell.
    It all depends what the builder wants to do. For steel I prefer the set screw, but in Ti a split shell works very well.



    That's a Phil Wood half link EBB
    Yes - I do own Singular Cycles

  22. #22
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    Ooooooor, skip the Paragon sliders, skip the EBB. Have the builder do just a normal 68mm BB shell, and then use Forward Component's EBB. I have yet to hear a single complaint of creaking, and have yet to hear one person say it doesn't work well and can be forgotten about. The only downsides are you might need a half link (which to me isn't an issue), and it adds 130g.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Ooooooor, skip the Paragon sliders, skip the EBB. Have the builder do just a normal 68mm BB shell, and then use Forward Component's EBB. I have yet to hear a single complaint of creaking, and have yet to hear one person say it doesn't work well and can be forgotten about. The only downsides are you might need a half link (which to me isn't an issue), and it adds 130g.

    Certainly an option, but if you break one on a trip or at a race, good luck getting replacement parts. You'd want to travel with a spare half-link chain as well, not exaclty an item you can pick up at most shops.

    You're limited on BB/crankset options too. From their site " All cranksets must be of the 'outboard' bearing style. Square taper, Octalink, and ISIS cranksets are completely incompatible".

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    Certainly an option, but if you break one on a trip or at a race, good luck getting replacement parts. You'd want to travel with a spare half-link chain as well, not exaclty an item you can pick up at most shops.

    You're limited on BB/crankset options too. From their site " All cranksets must be of the 'outboard' bearing style. Square taper, Octalink, and ISIS cranksets are completely incompatible".
    So far we've haven't heard of one breaking, and considering it's construction (the main body is stainless steel), I have a hard time seeing one break, at least, no more so than a Paragon or traditional EBB.

    After testing virtually every half link and master link available, I've found a setup which is as bomb proof as they come, and I don't worry about it breaking. But if you do, just throw a half link in your pack along with the masterlink which should already be in there.

    Finally, yes, you're limited to the standard outboard bearing style cranksets, which isn't really a problem to me . You have a wide variety of cranksets to choose from, and they're not going away anytime soon. Now, if it would only support square taper, that would be a problem.

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