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  1. #1
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    Ecc BB or rear hub?

    Looking for opinions. I'm getting ready to order an IF Ti frame. 90% of my recreational rides are on SS. I race on a geared IF Steel Deluxe. Next year I'm going to split my time on the race course between a gearie and an SS.

    I hate to order the Ti frame SS specific. So I'm either going to get it with vertical dropouts and do the eccentric ENO hub (I've done this with one of my SS's) or do the eccentric BB.

    If I do the ecc BB I can do disc brakes but from what I hear, my BB choices are limited. I prefer a Phil Ti BB. If I do the ecc rear hub, the bike will be lighter and I can choose whatever BB I want but I can't do discs on the rear.

    HELP!!!
    Fat fanatic.

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  2. #2
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    I don't think bb choices are that limited...

    IF was the builder of the ti PISS OFF's Phil sold. Those not only had Phil ti bb's but also Phil eccentrics. So I can't imagine you'd have a problem getting a Phil bb in an eccentric made by IF.

    I'm not sure why an eccentric would limit your selection of bb's. Certain outboard systems might make it tough to adjust the chain tension but the actual eccentric is the same threading and width as the shell it's replacing so if it fits in a conventional frame it should fight in an eccentric.

    I would get in touch with IF. That's one of the perks of a custom build, getting good advice about what's going to work best for you.

    Personally, I don't like eccentrics. I think they're ugly and for me a bit more of a hassle to deal with. You can do discs on an ss without one but once you add the complexity of an occasional derailleur into the mix an EBB does seem to be the most reasonable option.

  3. #3
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    I don't think the BB choices are limited.............

    UPCK,
    I believe there is no real constraint on using an EBB and BB's
    Someone chime in if I am mistaken.
    I can run RF FR ISIS, and Shimano X-Type with no problems (or adjusting issues) on my 29er SS.
    Owning a 29er Bushnell EBB, and a 26" ENO ECC wheelset, I have to say the ENO (with disk brake adapter) would be less work to dial in.
    Awesome hub, and a much easier solution in my opinion.
    The Bushnell works fine (once setup), but it took me (personally) a lot to get it dialed in and working right.
    The ENO has a learning curve also, but I consider it much less.

    my .02
    C.



    Quote Originally Posted by Upchuck
    Looking for opinions. I'm getting ready to order an IF Ti frame. 90% of my recreational rides are on SS. I race on a geared IF Steel Deluxe. Next year I'm going to split my time on the race course between a gearie and an SS.

    I hate to order the Ti frame SS specific. So I'm either going to get it with vertical dropouts and do the eccentric ENO hub (I've done this with one of my SS's) or do the eccentric BB.

    If I do the ecc BB I can do disc brakes but from what I hear, my BB choices are limited. I prefer a Phil Ti BB. If I do the ecc rear hub, the bike will be lighter and I can choose whatever BB I want but I can't do discs on the rear.

    HELP!!!

  4. #4
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    Too bad IF doesn't do sliding drops, because it sounds like that would be the best option for your intended use.

  5. #5
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    I run a ENO rear hub and use the disc brake adaptor (on a 29er). In my opinion, it is the easiest and lightest way to go. The only issue is that you'll need a separate rear wheel if you desire to run geared, but it sounds like you could use the one off your steel bike.

    The ENO runs very smooth and hasn't given me an ounce of grief.

  6. #6
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    Eccentric!

    Go for the eccentric bottom bracket shell. Any bottom bracket should fit into the eccentric device.
    I have one SS with the ENO and twoo SSs with EBBs. I like the EBBs better. Much easier to adjust, everything.

  7. #7
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    Thank you everyone for your input. It sounds like the EBB is the only way to go if I want to run discs AND have the future option of running gears. I don't know where I ever got the notion (SchmoFizzle) that I would be limited with the brand BB's I could run with an EBB.

    My only other concern is the number of posts reporting creaking and difficulty setting up proper chain tension. Are these unfounded reports? Inexperienced users? Improperly installed equipment?

    What's the weight gain using an EBB vs conventional frame?

    Please share your experiences.
    Fat fanatic.

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  8. #8
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    Both of my SSs have the wedge style ebb. I am not sure how the pinch bolt style works for its owner.
    For people that are good at maintaining their equipment I can't see much of a problem. Me, I sukc at maintanence. AS long as the ebb is greased up well and you have long enough allen wrenches to get good enough leverage, the ebb should not slip or creak.

    Before any race situation always regrease and tighten up the ebb. That way you know it shouldn't slip and lose chain tension.

    And with the ENO hub set up you have to carry two extra tools.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by noslogan
    And with the ENO hub set up you have to carry two extra tools.
    I've never needed more than a good 6mm allen.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upchuck
    Thank you everyone for your input. It sounds like the EBB is the only way to go if I want to run discs AND have the future option of running gears. I don't know where I ever got the notion (SchmoFizzle) that I would be limited with the brand BB's I could run with an EBB.

    My only other concern is the number of posts reporting creaking and difficulty setting up proper chain tension. Are these unfounded reports? Inexperienced users? Improperly installed equipment?

    What's the weight gain using an EBB vs conventional frame?

    Please share your experiences.
    huh? I dont remember saying that.....perhaps what I mentioned was that with some types of bottom brackets in combo with certain types of EBBs (eg, outboards bearings with bushnell), there may be issues in adjusting the EBB (so I hear....i think the protruding portion on the drive side may hit the shell of the bearings....dont know for sure).

    I have no creaking issues and when i did, it was nothing a little grease would not resolve (in now 3 EBB bikes).
    Last edited by FoShizzle; 06-27-2006 at 08:27 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upchuck
    Thank you everyone for your input. It sounds like the EBB is the only way to go if I want to run discs AND have the future option of running gears. I don't know where I ever got the notion (SchmoFizzle) that I would be limited with the brand BB's I could run with an EBB.

    My only other concern is the number of posts reporting creaking and difficulty setting up proper chain tension. Are these unfounded reports? Inexperienced users? Improperly installed equipment?

    What's the weight gain using an EBB vs conventional frame?

    Please share your experiences.
    Sounds like you are on a track. If I were to build my "last bike" ( ) I would have vert. DO with hanger for der., and an EBB. Couldn't IF accomodate the hanger into the DO? I too prefer discs for the damp nature of the PNW. Good luck with the build and post pics as it progresses.
    Tuff Schist

  12. #12
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    jinx

    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    I've never needed more than a good 6mm allen.
    Now you've gone and done it. Just in case bring that 19mm for the long ride Saturday.

  13. #13
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    No 'EXTRA TOOLS' needed

    Agreed. I never used my 6mm until I got my ENO.
    You don't need anythng but the 6mm once you learn how to setup the wheel (which does take a bit of trial and error at first).

    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    I've never needed more than a good 6mm allen.

  14. #14
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    UPCK,
    My Bushnell EBB works just fine.....................NOW.
    However, it slipped several times when new. Some of that was my inexperience.
    A Lot of that was research on how to effectively setup the shell in my frame.
    My opinion is that the piece is not a 'set and forget, go ride' item.
    It takes some wrenching and learning to understand HOW to dial in.
    Chain tension is a little tricky, but not ridiculous.
    The 4mm allen bolt on my Bushnell is fairly easy to setup if the left side crank arm is off.
    You can use a ratchet to tighten/loosen the bolt.
    With the crank on however, the use of a 4mm wrench is tedious at best.
    PITA as you have limited travel of the tool.
    The torque spec is REALLY high on that bolt also.
    Not a big deal to 'honk' on the bolt, but it seems WAAAY tighter than I would normally put on a bolt that size.
    Less than that will allow slippage in my experience.
    Some have no problems, that's great. Just not consistent with my experience.

    If you want to run a geared disc setup, then the EBB is probably the route for you.
    I think the WI hub is awesome, and have no desire to run gears any time in the future, so I am biased.

    Whatever you choose, enjoy.

    C.


    Quote Originally Posted by Upchuck
    Thank you everyone for your input. It sounds like the EBB is the only way to go if I want to run discs AND have the future option of running gears. I don't know where I ever got the notion (SchmoFizzle) that I would be limited with the brand BB's I could run with an EBB.

    My only other concern is the number of posts reporting creaking and difficulty setting up proper chain tension. Are these unfounded reports? Inexperienced users? Improperly installed equipment?

    What's the weight gain using an EBB vs conventional frame?

    Please share your experiences.

  15. #15
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    Eno

    ENO is the shiznit if you ask me.
    ENO makes life easier...

    ENO is shiny

    ENO can be fixed or freewheel...on the same wheel at the same time.

    6mm allen is all you need. Turns your current frame to a true SS.

  16. #16
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    Well, nuts

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsalty
    (which does take a bit of trial and error at first).
    Most of my trials ended in error. So, I always brought the 19mm.

  17. #17
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    I use both, however, I have not used the ENO with a disc.

    I think the ENO is significantly easier to use and cleaner looking as well.

    The EBB requires cleaning quite often if you ride in foul conditions otherwise it most likely will start creaking. I've also dinged the bottom where the screws are pretty hard on some rocks and I fear eventually I will damage a screw and not be able to use it without repair.

    Drawbacks to the ENO are the freewheels are a hassle to remove compared to cogs and a lockring. They are also a lot more expensive if you want to change gearing unless you use the super cheap shimano or acs brands. but they suck compared to the ENO freewheel.

    Ideally I would look towards a sliding drop out solution like Paragon's if you have to use disc.

  18. #18
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    ... and if we just ... First Ti Deluxe with Sliders!!!!

    I am expecting my Ti Deluxe with sliders in about 2 weeks. According to Matt B. they have done quite a few in steel and mine will be the first one in Ti.

    IMO...for what you are trying to accomplish, sliders are the way to go. Definately worth checking out

    I'll post pics when it gets here

  19. #19
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    No Issues

    I run an ENO on my 26 with no issuesr at all. I have heard about aluminum frames with removable drop outs making trouble with ENO adjustment, but no ther complaints, really. I love mine.

    I have a bushnell EBB on my 29er with external bearing XT cranks adn BB. I chose it because I wanted disc brakes and breezer drop outs for simplicity in the rear. It's a bit tough to reach the bolt, but once you are on it, no worries. the cranks obstruct it unless they are in one specific spot. I know the spot, so it's no hassle, and quite honestly, I don't adjust it so often that it would ever really be a big deal.
    "Welcome to my underground lair...."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ YetiMan
    I am expecting my Ti Deluxe with sliders in about 2 weeks. According to Matt B. they have done quite a few in steel and mine will be the first one in Ti.

    IMO...for what you are trying to accomplish, sliders are the way to go. Definately worth checking out

    I'll post pics when it gets here
    WHOA! Now we're talking. So when did IF start doing sliders? I didn't even see this as an option on the order form or website.
    Fat fanatic.

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  21. #21
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    Dude, I've just come to realize that everything I hear on the trail that doesn't seem to make sense must have, in one way or another, come from you. Call it Six Degrees of FoShizzle. Or SDF for short.

    So next time I'm with a group of people and I blurt out something that sounds like I got it off a Bazooka Joe Bubble Gum wrapper, which seems to happen way too often, I'm just gonna shrug my shoulders and say "SDF..." I'll get a knowing nod from the rest of the group and we'll just move on like it never happened.
    Fat fanatic.

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  22. #22
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    Ask and you shall receive....

    I think IF was a little slow to adopt the sliders...like you say, there is no reference on the web-site. I spoke with a few folks over there about the idea of doing a Ti slider set-up and they were psyched to give it a shot.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ YetiMan
    I think IF was a little slow to adopt the sliders...like you say, there is no reference on the web-site. I spoke with a few folks over there about the idea of doing a Ti slider set-up and they were psyched to give it a shot.
    Just spoke with Joe at IF re: the slider dropouts. They aren't offering it with a hanger. So I'm back to using an EBB.
    Fat fanatic.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upchuck
    Just spoke with Joe at IF re: the slider dropouts. They aren't offering it with a hanger. So I'm back to using an EBB.
    Did they say why? They are available:

    Disc Dropout Slider, 6/4 slotted frame piece, w/ SS hardware & 6061 adjustable slider (replaces eccentric) *Single speed, multispeed (hanger), Rohloff versions available (http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/)

    Are they a custom builder or what?

    Edit: If they can build with the singlespeed Paragon sliders, you could buy the multispeed version directly from Paragon and swap in the sliding piece w/ hanger.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upchuck
    Dude, I've just come to realize that everything I hear on the trail that doesn't seem to make sense must have, in one way or another, come from you. Call it Six Degrees of FoShizzle. Or SDF for short.

    So next time I'm with a group of people and I blurt out something that sounds like I got it off a Bazooka Joe Bubble Gum wrapper, which seems to happen way too often, I'm just gonna shrug my shoulders and say "SDF..." I'll get a knowing nod from the rest of the group and we'll just move on like it never happened.
    nice! SDF I am sure will become widely used now

    funniest part is you said "September"....I KNEW you would start the process immediately you weak, weak man

  26. #26
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    That's loooooodacris!!

    Like PBB says above...it is simply an option from Paragon. You can buy the hanger direct...I hear they are about $100.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ YetiMan
    Like PBB says above...it is simply an option from Paragon. You can buy the hanger direct...I hear they are about $100.
    First off, I want to tell everyone who's been reading this thread that my understanding of how IF will build a Paragon Slider equipped Deluxe may not be accurate. When I spoke with Joe, he told me it wouldn't be offered with a hanger. But to be fair, I must include that he had to ask someone else in the shop. So there's a chance he was misinformed. I certainly do not want to besmirch the reputation of one of the best custom frame builders in the world.

    The good news is, I just got off the phone with Mark, the owner of Paragon Machine Works, and he said "no problem". I can buy the hanger piece that bolts onto the slider for a mere $10 and viola! Instant gearie. In fact, he recommends picking up a couple of them for easy trailside repair in the event I bend one into oblivion. He did mention that the price for the hanger may go up a couple bucks in the future, but he is trying to keep them at a low cost. Mark sounds like a genuinely great guy who really wants to support the industry and those who ride in any way he can.

    Problem solved. Thanks for everyone's input!
    Fat fanatic.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    nice! SDF I am sure will become widely used now

    funniest part is you said "September"....I KNEW you would start the process immediately you weak, weak man
    Dude, I said I was going to get a bike in September. Not order a bike in September. The lead time on the Ti Deluxe is about 12 weeks. I should have ordered a month ago! So no, I am not a weak, weak man. I just know I would have to commit hari-kari if I don't see a bike by the end of September. That's not a sign of weakness. Just a fanatic.
    Fat fanatic.

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  29. #29
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    i stand corrected

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    Too bad IF doesn't do sliding drops, because it sounds like that would be the best option for your intended use.
    I was going to suggest the same, sliders are the easiest to deal with.

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