EBB recommendation. Bushnell or Carver??- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    EBB recommendation. Bushnell or Carver??

    Anyone ever use a Carver or Bushnell eccentric bottom bracket?

    I've got a Niner One9. It started out with their original set screw type eccentric (garbage). Now I've got their new "Biocentric" design. It holds the chain tension fine, but creaks like crazy. I thought it might just be mine, but at 24 hours of Moab this weekend I rode up on a guy who's bike was making the exact same creak as mine. Of course, it was also a One9...

    Anyhow, I'm going to give Carver or Bushnell a try. If those don't work, the Niner Frame is going in the trash.

    ***Please don't ask if it's my cranks, seat post, skewers, or any other creaky part of the bike. It's not.

    Thanks for any recommendations.

  2. #2
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    interested in this myself. i was thinking of making my own, but it's not like they're that expensive i dont think so it might not be worth it. i have an 09 rig, i'm not too sure what came on it, but it sucks. It slips on me, and i am anal about my chainline so the fact that it moves side to side in the shell with no lip to stop it pisses me off.

  3. #3
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    The Carver EBB stopped all my creaky squeaky slipping issues on an 08 rig. You are still gonna have no lip to keep your chainline straight though.
    If you never crash you are not trying hard enough.

  4. #4
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    Well, yeah, I actually did that. I had a One 9 set-screw EBB. I bought a new Bushnell insert (direct I think, or from a Tandem site). It was the same EBB that is in my El Mariachi frame.

    The EBB was a little on the small side for the Niner frame. I was able to cut a hard plastic sleeve out of a Pepsi bottle, and insert it around the EBB insert into the Niner shell. Tightened that down. Sorry but at this point I can't really recall why I decided to go back to the Niner EBB. I think I just thought the whole Pepsi-shim thing was quite cheesy. The plastic would get wrinkled a little bit and fold, but it sort of worked. I guess your only valuable takeaway is that the Bushnell would sort of fit the niner shell but it was a little too small and the "wings" were sort of maxxed out. Not really a good fit when you compare it to the shell it was designed for...the wings are not intended to be that far out and it becomes out of round. I ended up crashing on the Niner frame, and was superstitious and sold it off...

    If I still owned the Niner, I would work to make the Bio-centric work. There are solutions floating around...but I think all of them are like all EBB solutions, temporary. They just require maintenance. I just re-greased my El Mar EBB again last week, building it up for Winter. It will stay pretty well as long as I am not adjusting it...once you spin it for a cog change dirty, it is just a matter of time. The best results I got on my Niner set-screw one was using anti-seize lube instead of grease..from the auto parts store, they use it on spark plugs and it is thick and metallic and hard to get off your fingers. I expect you have read that tip already...but good luck.

  5. #5
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    I can't believe you jammed a Pepsi bottle in there. Resourceful, but little chance of actually working...

    There's a required shim to run the Bushnell in the 55mm Niner shell. It's another $20.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggs
    I can't believe you jammed a Pepsi bottle in there. Resourceful, but little chance of actually working...

    There's a required shim to run the Bushnell in the 55mm Niner shell. It's another $20.
    Hmm I did not see that shim available when I tried the Bushnell, interesting.

    The other concern (coming back to me now) that I had is that the Niner shell is not continuous...it is relieved in the middle which is not the type of shell that a Bushnell is designed to work with. I was a little concerned about the uneven stress on the wings of the Bushnell insert. Not sure if the $20 shim is shaped custom for the One9 to take care of this...pretty sad if it is because it would indicate there is a big market to make One9's better.

    Ultimately the only thing I can highly recommend is what I did...sell the Niner on eBay and buy an aluminum frame with Ahrens sliders. Rock Lobster and Siren both build using them, mine have been solid. Just had to replace their silly bolts with real ones from Ace Hardware. Still require periodic cleaning, but a heck of a lot easier than removing a BB every time.

  7. #7
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    I think the guys at Niner are great but when are companies gonna give up on this POS tension design. I have paragon sliders and once you put real bolts in them, they are great.

  8. #8
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    I don't blame people for hating EBBs. Seems there are a bunch of lousy ones out there, and sliding dropouts seem like a fine alternative.

    That said, I've got a split shell (pinch bolt) EBB in my Vulture that is going on 8 years old now and it's never given me a lick of trouble. Never a creak, never a slip. I'm not saying all split shell EBBs are perfect, but I rarely (can't remember any) hear of anyone complaining about them. Why more bicycles don't employ them, I don't know.

    I only offer this because I hate to see the EBB painted with such a broad brush. It's actually an elegant way to tension a chain. It's the execution that's the problem. If builders are going to offer an EBB frame, they should utilize a proven design. IMO the split shell is just that.

    --Sparty

    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    I think the guys at Niner are great but when are companies gonna give up on this POS tension design. I have paragon sliders and once you put real bolts in them, they are great.
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  9. #9
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    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    I don't blame people for hating EBBs. Seems there are a bunch of lousy ones out there, and sliding dropouts seem like a fine alternative.

    That said, I've got a split shell (pinch bolt) EBB in my Vulture that is going on 8 years old now and it's never given me a lick of trouble. Never a creak, never a slip. I'm not saying all split shell EBBs are perfect, but I rarely (can't remember any) hear of anyone complaining about them. Why more bicycles don't employ them, I don't know.

    I only offer this because I hate to see the EBB painted with such a broad brush. It's actually an elegant way to tension a chain. It's the execution that's the problem. If builders are going to offer an EBB frame, they should utilize a proven design. IMO the split shell is just that.

    --Sparty
    I should say that the design that Singular uses with the Phil EBB seems to be such a better alternative to what all the bigger companies are using. I thought about that right after I typed the previous comment. Maybe some manufacturers will take notice and start employing this design in more frames.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISuckAtRiding
    interested in this myself. i was thinking of making my own, but it's not like they're that expensive i dont think so it might not be worth it. i have an 09 rig, i'm not too sure what came on it, but it sucks. It slips on me, and i am anal about my chainline so the fact that it moves side to side in the shell with no lip to stop it pisses me off.
    well, how much are they? you seem to be doing well with the cogs, and you're giving people the option to choose a color and selling them at a low price, right?

    I wonder how you would do with a simple, relieved ebb, where you likewise let people choose a color. how much would you sell it for? how much do the others cost?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    I should say that the design that Singular uses with the Phil EBB seems to be such a better alternative to what all the bigger companies are using. I thought about that right after I typed the previous comment. Maybe some manufacturers will take notice and start employing this design in more frames.
    I have a set screw Phil EBB that is well over 2 years old and TONS of miles, not a single issue or one noise ever. So simple to adjust too. Maybe it has something to do with it not being anodized, but its pretty standard otherwise. Normal metric set screws and all.

    Niner is crazy for removing the studs for set screws from the newer frames, IMO.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by grundy
    well, how much are they? you seem to be doing well with the cogs, and you're giving people the option to choose a color and selling them at a low price, right?

    I wonder how you would do with a simple, relieved ebb, where you likewise let people choose a color. how much would you sell it for? how much do the others cost?
    too hard to say at this point without actually developing one. I'll keep it on the burner though.

  13. #13
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    Ebb

    Honestly, the only EBB I have experience on is a creaky SIR...

    However, after turning wrenches for 10 years I will agree with what Sparty asserts:
    The pinch/bolt/shell design seems to work the *best*. I know IF always used to use this design but now make whatever you want.

    I like the idea of an outer shell compressing on a tube rather than an inner tube expanding to fit a fixed out tube: seatpost comes to mind.

    Back to the topic at hand: My only experience in this matter is indirect. I used to work at Bath Cycle and Ski, known on the Inter-web as Bikeman, and I can say that Davis (Carver) would not put his name on a part if it did not work. (Side note: Carver frames (69r/650) precluded Trek's 69r and the 650 trend, commercially--there certainly have been other prototypes flouted).

    Again, back to the topic at hand: I would buy the Carver. I am biased, no doubt. But who else puts a teflon sleve around the EBB SO IT DOES NOT CREAK?

    As always, this is just MHO

  14. #14
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    I've had some issues with my niner EBB creaking. What has worked for me is slapping antiseize all over the inside contact points. Just like anything else on your bike, you need to do some periodic maintenance in order to keep it working like it should - i.e. no creaking. I've also heard that teflon tape on the inside contact points works well, but I have not tried this.

    More importantly than the creaking is that I have not met an EBB that keeps chain tension tight.

  15. #15
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    More importantly than the creaking is that I have not met an EBB that keeps chain tension tight.
    What EBB's have you tried? I've been using a Bushnell EBB for 5 years with no creaks and no problems with chain tension. Bushnell EBB insert with a Bushnell BB shell works perfectly. To the OP I have no idea how the Bushnell EBB will work for your Niner EBB shell with shim, good luck. Did you check if your shell has become ovalized? isn't that a potential symptom of a set-screw design?

  16. #16
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    O.K.... given the previous discussion and logic.... will the Carver EBB work to replace a Bushnell EBB? I'm willing to try about anything at this point. I'm so sick of squeek, squeek, squeek everytime I climb. GRRRRR!

  17. #17
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    First time I tried to do the Niner-recommended workaround with the plumber tape on the Biocentric EBB, I used standard plumber tape. That squeaked, creaked, and sucked.

    So I picked up a Carver EBB to try to replace my niner biocentric. Did not fit right.

    Finally I put the Niner EBB back in the frame, and I tried the kind of plumber tape that's used for gas lines - it's thicker, doesn't shred as easily. THAT worked.

  18. #18
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    I have a One 9, with the newer EBB and no creaks . . . now. Here is what I did. Get some 200 grit sandpaper, and a block of some kind, and gently sand the outside of the EBB shell on the frame to clean it and make it flat and smooth.

    Get some SOS or a simple sponge with your favorite degreaser and scrub down the inside of the shell. Next, rub down/clean the shell with some rubbing alcohol and the EBB itself.

    Take some Brasso or Flitz and polish the inside on the EBB shell on the frame and the outside edge you sanded in step 1.

    Re-assy the EBB and torque the screw with a torque wrench to 130 in/lbs. I put just a dab of chain lube on the head of the EBB screw where it rests up on the EBB shell. I use a q-tip and a chain lube that doesn't attract dirt (or as much as an oil based product).

    You will note I did not have you grease anything as the new Niner design works without grease, which just draws in stuff that makes it squeak.

    If you plan on getting it wet, be sure to read the section on silicon sealant in the Niner directions. I personally don't use it as I only ride dry areas or baby creak crossings.

    Good luck.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    I should say that the design that Singular uses with the Phil EBB seems to be such a better alternative to what all the bigger companies are using. I thought about that right after I typed the previous comment. Maybe some manufacturers will take notice and start employing this design in more frames.
    They are expensive. The Phil EBB is a significant proportion of my overall frame cost. I think that is the primary reason you don't see more larger companies using them. For me though I'd rather use something I have confidence is not going to give my customers any trouble, just do what it is supposed to do in silence like it should.

    Sam
    Yes - I do own Singular Cycles

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