Dt Swiss 240s went boom!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Dt Swiss 240s went boom!

    This wheelset and hub were brand new, entered the trail and within a 100 yards it
    self destructed.

    What could've caused this? Improper assembly?

    Im clueless.
    Last edited by Dropout33; 07-04-2010 at 04:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Schipperkes are cool.
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    Im clueless about what failed.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  3. #3
    openwound
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    Pictures or an explanation of the parts that came apart would help.

  4. #4
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    I cant take it apart since I have no tools but the Boom was an exaggeration.

    It just keeps popping with every pedal stroke. Definitely not rideable.

    Have to bring it to the shop on Tues.

  5. #5
    Drinking the Slick_Juice
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    pictures would help
    "If women don't find handsome , they should at least find you handy."-Red Green

  6. #6
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    240s don't require tools to take them apart.

  7. #7
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    Didn't know that. I am gonna look for a schematic and give it a try.

  8. #8
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    something not right there. No matter what it is, i'm sure DT-Swiss will take care of it quickly. I broke a pawl in one of their old low end hubs, and they were great to deal with.
    Usually those hubs are pretty damn reliable.

  9. #9
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    Well, cant do it without tools.
    Heres some pics.







    ISAR, dont worry that cog will eventually be replace by one of yours as soon as I figure out what gearing I am going to run.

    I'm sure Dt Swiss will take care of this. I just wish I knew enough to know what happened. Hopefully they will tell me at the shop.

  10. #10
    one chain loop
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    just curious on how the surly cog was spaced. the shop can't tell you anything if you can't explain yourself what happened. unless they ride it themselves and wait for the BOOM.
    everything sucks but my vacuum cleaner.

  11. #11
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    The Surly cog was placed all the way against the hub with 3 spacers on the outside of the cog. ( ) ! I I I the exclamation point being the cog if that helps

    I can explain that when I was pedaling it would just pop and kinda skip. You can feel it just riding real easy, im sure they will get on it and feel it for themselves.

  12. #12
    one chain loop
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    thats why.
    everything sucks but my vacuum cleaner.

  13. #13
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    So should there be a spacer between the hub and cog? The shop assembled it so I thought they would know better.

  14. #14
    one chain loop
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    apparently not. to be honest not all shops knows how to setup proper chain alignment. you can do it yourself with basic measurement.
    everything sucks but my vacuum cleaner.

  15. #15
    one chain loop
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    i just realized the liability these shops hold if that setup caused bodily harm.
    everything sucks but my vacuum cleaner.

  16. #16
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    my guess is the same as above...that chain line is way off...check this out...http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html get a ruler, pad and pen and get that straight...even if the hub is bad and needs replacing it is a good idea to get ur line straight.
    Last edited by hlhhmc; 07-05-2010 at 04:31 AM.

  17. #17
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    rear cog needs to be aligned with the front chainring.
    preeeeetty rare that the right position for the cog to line up with the chainring would be all the way inboard.

    whether you run your front ring on the inside or the outside of the spider, I'd expect you cog to be closer to the outside of the freehub.
    in most of my builds, I've ended up with ()ll!l.
    basically your chain was running angled, which on an ss tends to cause tons of popping and such.
    grab a ruler, steel edged or not, and lay the edge against your chainring, try to make sure it doesn't tough anything and see where the rear cog is in relation to the chainring.
    dollars to doughnuts the prob's the chainline.
    whether that'd fubar your hub I can't say (though I doubt it) but it will DEFINITELY tell you whether the shop knows what they're doing when it comes to setting up a singlespeed.

    which tells you whether you want their hands on your ride

    (x2 to what fishcreek said, their setup... just bad.)
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  18. #18
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    After it happened we put the wheel on my buddies bike and it did the same thing, not sure if that means anything since the alignment could've been off on that too. I think there is damage to the hub, we'll see.

  19. #19
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    For my DT240s single speed hub I have 2 spacers, the cog (dished inward) and another spacer. I think they're all 5mm spacers. They're the stock ones. I'm using an XTR M970 crankset with the ring in the middle position.

  20. #20
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    i choose to align cogs the easy and lazy way, take all the spacers off and put the cog on the hub. install the wheel with the chain on the chain wheel and cog. while spinning the cranks lightly apply pressure to the rear brake and the cog should be centered with the chain wheel. you are not done yet, with a sharpie or something trace an outline of the cog where its centered and apply the spacer in accordance with the sharpie lines. it is best to flip the bike upside down on a flat surface to do this, i hope this helps and i hope someone can clarify if you didn't understand me.
    "If women don't find handsome , they should at least find you handy."-Red Green

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker
    For my DT240s single speed hub I have 2 spacers, the cog (dished inward) and another spacer. I think they're all 5mm spacers. They're the stock ones. I'm using an XTR M970 crankset with the ring in the middle position.
    Wouldn't every setup be different? Frame A and B might have the same components but if the frames are different wouldn't alignment be different?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuck_chorris
    i choose to align cogs the easy and lazy way, take all the spacers off and put the cog on the hub. install the wheel with the chain on the chain wheel and cog. while spinning the cranks lightly apply pressure to the rear brake and the cog should be centered with the chain wheel. you are not done yet, with a sharpie or something trace an outline of the cog where its centered and apply the spacer in accordance with the sharpie lines. it is best to flip the bike upside down on a flat surface to do this, i hope this helps and i hope someone can clarify if you didn't understand me.

    I like this way. Good idea.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout33
    I like this way. Good idea.
    wasn't my original Idea , some one else on the forums came up with this, i saw no one had posted it so i thought it was fair game . it works well
    "If women don't find handsome , they should at least find you handy."-Red Green

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker
    For my DT240s single speed hub I have 2 spacers, the cog (dished inward) and another spacer. I think they're all 5mm spacers. They're the stock ones. I'm using an XTR M970 crankset with the ring in the middle position.
    this kit works like a charm for a good chain line:

    http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...speed+Kit.aspx

    I bought the one without the guides and it hasn't failed me yet
    "If women don't find handsome , they should at least find you handy."-Red Green

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout33
    Wouldn't every setup be different? Frame A and B might have the same components but if the frames are different wouldn't alignment be different?
    If two different frames have the same components and the chainline is different, one frame is bent.

  26. #26
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    Alright heres an update. Took it to the lbs and they said the internals looked good. They changed the alignment of the chain which a couple of you here suggested.

    Went back to pick up bike 2 days ago and he says "take it for a ride to make sure its good" I take it for a spin and the same thing happened. So while I am there he changes the alignment a couple of time and I continue to go for a spin with the results being the same. I leave the bike.

    Today he calls I go to pick it up and and he tells me he had to change the star ratchet and he put in the 36 tooth. The bike is fine now and looking at the 18 tooth which I have in my hand it looks perfect also. Mind you that the hub was/is brand new when the issues happened.

    So I am lost as to what the problem was and is.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Dropout33; 07-09-2010 at 05:44 PM.

  27. #27
    one chain loop
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout33
    Today he calls I go to pick it up and and he tells me he had to change the star ratchet and he put in the 36 step. The bike is fine now and looking at the 18th which I have in my hand it looks perfect also. Mind you that the hub was/is brand new when the issues happened.

    So I am lost as to what the problem was and is.

    Any thoughts?
    chainline, still. it should not be done in trial and error either. enlighten me on that unknown bike lingo (words in bold).
    everything sucks but my vacuum cleaner.

  28. #28
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    DT Swiss hubs use a mechanism called a star ratchet for engagement. It is a proprietary system. Normally, a 240 has 18 pts of engagement (what OP calls the 18th?), but DTS released an upgraded star ratchet that has 36 teeth instead of 18. Apparently, the LBS upgraded the hub for him.

  29. #29
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    Fixed it for ya.

  30. #30
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    there is a possibilty of too thick of grease in the ratchet system, and it wasn't fully engaging, when they installed the new ratchets they could have used less grease allowing them to full contact.
    Quote Originally Posted by thefuzzbl
    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

  31. #31
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    Can someone tell me what tools I would need to take the hub apart for future reference?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout33
    Can someone tell me what tools I would need to take the hub apart for future reference?
    you need a chain whip and cassette lockring tools to take off your cog and disc rotor. after those are off, just grab the endcaps with a pair of pliers or gently clamp in a bench vise (use a rag or soft jaws on your vise) and pull off, not tools needed unless you need to replace bearings, once the cassette side endcap is off grab your freehub body and pull it off. the two ratchets and springs will fall out as will a sleeve for your axle. very simple and easy to service. just use a a sticky light grease (slick honey) on the internals and you are good to go
    Quote Originally Posted by thefuzzbl
    aluminium has a tendency to fail when you need it most. i.e. you end up with a bad day.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter916
    there is a possibilty of too thick of grease in the ratchet system, and it wasn't fully engaging, when they installed the new ratchets they could have used less grease allowing them to full contact.
    That's what I was thinking. I've made that mistake before.

    Quote Originally Posted by scooter916
    you need a chain whip and cassette lockring tools to take off your cog and disc rotor. after those are off, just grab the endcaps with a pair of pliers or gently clamp in a bench vise (use a rag or soft jaws on your vise) and pull off, not tools needed unless you need to replace bearings, once the cassette side endcap is off grab your freehub body and pull it off. the two ratchets and springs will fall out as will a sleeve for your axle. very simple and easy to service. just use a a sticky light grease (slick honey) on the internals and you are good to go
    You can leave the cog on and use it to pop the end cap and freehub body off the drive side. Unless you are replacing the rotor side bearing you can just leave it on.

  34. #34
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    So to just clean up the star ratchet and change the grease I can open it up with the cog?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout33
    So to just clean up the star ratchet and change the grease I can open it up with the cog?
    Yep. Just "rock" the cog off the hub and the freeehub body will come right off. There are 2 springs that push the star ratchets together, the star ratchets, and a sleeve the ratchets fit over if I'm remembering correctly. Real simple intuitive design. You just need a very light coating of grease.

  36. #36
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    Thanks so much. No more LBs for me lol.

  37. #37
    Schipperkes are cool.
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    There is NO need to remove any cog, lock ring, cassette, spacers off the DT freehub body! Pull the hole damn thing off and the outer axle cap end will stay captive. You use the cog/cassette to help leverage off the free hub body.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  38. #38
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    when I upgraded to the 36pt, I put in some grease, and it was too thick so the rachets wouldn't engage all the time (off the bike, in the shop), so I cleaned it, tried a different grease, same thing. Cleaned it again, put in Phil Tenacious oil, same thing, cleaned it again, put in finish line wet chain lube, Perfecto.
    If the hub was new, I'd be surprised if it had the wrong grease, and don't know if too much of the right grease would be an issue.

  39. #39
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    DT has specific synthetic red colourd star ratchet grease & should not use anything else.
    DT Swiss# HXTXXX00NSG20S / QBP#LU1850
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  40. #40
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    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=602813


    .........Just talked to Dave @ DT... they are sending me a new free hub body and a set of 18t rings. Per DT this is not the first of the 36t issues... hence they don't ship new 240s with 36t. Metal is thinner and not as strong as the 18t... so for customers that have failures with the 36t rings they suggest you go back to 18t. ..........

    .........OK, since I have recently gone thru something similar: I just spoke with DT tech yesterday and they don't really strongly suggest the factory lube, just say that a synthetic grease is required. Told the tech that I was using Pedro's synth & he said that should be fine. I checked the MSDS at the Slick honey site and it is a petro grease, not synth. See the MSDS here: http://www.slickhoneyusa.com/msds_slickhoney.pdf..........
    Trailwrecker at large

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