Do you really need those tug-nuts?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Do you really need those tug-nuts?

    If you're having problems with your axle shifting under load, this article may interest you as it explains the mechanism behind nuts loosening. Nuts and Bolts: Keeping it Tight | Hackaday

    (Got nothing against tug-nuts before anyone jumps down my throat )
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  2. #2
    EAT MORE GRIME
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    yes I need tuggnuts because

    a) there is the paper science behind all things bolts and fixing the axle in place

    b) real riding, where it'll shift on you and dump you into a ditch

    --tuggnuts just fix the problem for good--


    I did not see one person on that hackaday site that can produce over 1800-2200 watts of power on a singlespeed trying to climb a near vertical boulder grunt.

    show me that, on track dropouts with bolts only... then maybe

    until then, just use axle stops or tuggnuts

  3. #3
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    lol, I have some Nordlocks on mine, the're pretty good.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    ....I did not see one person on that hackaday site that can produce over 1800-2200 watts of power on a singlespeed trying to climb a near vertical boulder grunt...
    Blimey, that's 2-3 horse power.

    I've managed to twist BBs, bend cranks, and I doubt I ever came close to that.

    I very much doubt the Hack-a-Day lads were even thinking of bicycles. I just thought it was an interesting bit of info.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  5. #5
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    I have track ends with 17mm track nuts. It ain't going anywhere!

    You'd probably snap the chain before the axle budged.

  6. #6
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    As someone who uses a QR rear axle on track ends.... i'll stick with my tuggnuts lol

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacob View Post
    As someone who uses a QR rear axle on track ends.... i'll stick with my tuggnuts lol
    They work well for that - I've done a 24 hour race with a QR wheel held in place with tugnuts when my proper wheel tacoed the during the practise run.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  8. #8
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    I still question why anyone still uses track ends, but that's a whole different discussion...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    I still question why anyone still uses track ends, but that's a whole different discussion...
    Because they just work. Plain and simple.

    Not saying the others don't work well, but track ends are just simple and effective.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    I still question why anyone still uses track ends, but that's a whole different discussion...
    Agreed. I have track ends on my SS and I hate them. Vertical dropouts make wheel removal and installation 100% easier. Track ends are archaic & arcane IMO.
    =s
    P.S. I've had my miserable track end equipped bike for 10 years... replacement frame already chosen.
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  11. #11
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    I didn't see the problem with track ends and tug nuts until I bought a frame with Paragon-style sliders.


    I have seen the light.
    Don’t modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  12. #12
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    Ya, paragon sliders are cool. My brother's ritchey p-29er has those. They do creak a lot and he has had issues with sliding (like skewers). But he eventually got it dialed in and he's happy.

    I've never had issues with slipping or creaking with track ends. But I do have to carry a heavy tool just to get the wheel off, so that's annoying...

    Getting the wheel off is no biggie if the brake caliper is placed properly. Some frame makers got that part wrong.

  13. #13
    EAT MORE GRIME
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjphillips View Post
    Ya, paragon sliders are cool. My brother's ritchey p-29er has those. They do creak a lot and he has had issues with sliding (like skewers). But he eventually got it dialed in and he's happy.

    I've never had issues with slipping or creaking with track ends. But I do have to carry a heavy tool just to get the wheel off, so that's annoying...

    Getting the wheel off is no biggie if the brake caliper is placed properly. Some frame makers got that part wrong.
    yeah, my karate monkey is a pain in the arse to pop the wheel, haveta unbolt brake

  14. #14
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    I'll be riding a NOS track end SS at the end of summer for the first time iny life if things go according to plan. My existing 2 SS bikes have an Eno hub, and the other has track ends with tuhs and a QR.

    The new bike will have a proper Phil Wood track hub with a White freewheel sprocket. Also will run rim brakes. Am hoping to not use tugs, but I might.

    Anyway, this build is retro. I am going back in time with this one.

    Just the idea of not having chain tugs on the back makes me nervous though.

    Should I be concerned?



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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I'll be riding a NOS track end SS at the end of summer for the first time iny life if things go according to plan. My existing 2 SS bikes have an Eno hub, and the other has track ends with tuhs and a QR.

    The new bike will have a proper Phil Wood track hub with a White freewheel sprocket. Also will run rim brakes. Am hoping to not use tugs, but I might.

    Anyway, this build is retro. I am going back in time with this one.

    Just the idea of not having chain tugs on the back makes me nervous though.

    Should I be concerned?
    No. My track bike doesn't need them. Just tighten those nuts sufficiently.

    On a bolt up hub I regard tugnuts as positioning aids rather than as retention devices.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I'll be riding a NOS track end SS at the end of summer for the first time iny life if things go according to plan. My existing 2 SS bikes have an Eno hub, and the other has track ends with tuhs and a QR.

    The new bike will have a proper Phil Wood track hub with a White freewheel sprocket. Also will run rim brakes. Am hoping to not use tugs, but I might.

    Anyway, this build is retro. I am going back in time with this one.

    Just the idea of not having chain tugs on the back makes me nervous though.

    Should I be concerned?



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    If you use proper track nuts, tugs aren't necessary,. The ones where the the flange rotates will work, the ones with a fixed serrated flange will move.
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  17. #17
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    Appreciate the replies. When the bike gets onto the trails in a couple of months I'll come back with photos and impressions ( of the marks the nuts are going to leave).

    Speaking of marks, I have seen machined steel drop out savers for sale.

    I presume these are optional items. Does anyone here have any experience with these?



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  18. #18
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    I was running my Pugsley SS with a converted Shimano QR hub. I needed the Tuggnuts to keep the wheel from shifting in the dropouts. Then I built a new wheel with a Hope Trials hub, which has M10 threaded bolts. No more shifting, with our without Tuggnuts. However, I keep the Tuggnuts on because they make setting the chain tension so much easier. And I change gearing a lot so it's worth the weight penalty. YMMV.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    If you're having problems with your axle shifting under load, this article may interest you as it explains the mechanism behind nuts loosening. Nuts and Bolts: Keeping it Tight | Hackaday

    (Got nothing against tug-nuts before anyone jumps down my throat )
    Thanks for sharing the highly educational link. I now know what asperities are, and will never think about the rear hub fasteners the same. There's a lot more going on back there too.

    In conclusion, I will continue to use tug nuts on track ends and ride.

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  20. #20
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    I've run EBB with standard dropout, Paragon rockers and sliders (both with and without tugs). None of them creaked.

    Sliders without tugs move on me so I run DT or King axle/fun bolts to prevent it. This also makes bent skewers and machined axles (that fit in standard dropouts) at thing of the past.

    Paragon rockers are awesome and what I'd choose again... got those on my Chris King Cielo rigid SS.
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  21. #21
    No known cure
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    Install and forget, and cheap.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do you really need those tug-nuts?-bike-007.jpg  

    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    show me that, on track dropouts with bolts only... then maybe
    any track bike ever... olympic track riders probably put out more watts than you homie.

    --

    if you want to use them go ahead; but they are not necessary. if your dropouts slip; make em tighter... worked for me my entire SS career.

    tensioner question: do you guys constantly adjust the tensioner as the chain wears? that seems like a big PITA i never see mentioned.

    in short MHO is: don't put useless crap on your bike; especially your singlespeed.

  23. #23
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    355 miles on this build so far and it doesn't slip. It's a Phil Wood hub.

    Not using a tug.

    Parva sed apta

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  24. #24
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    so you spend good money on a phil hub; eno freewheel and then go with the 3 dollar colored chain?

    totally kidding but it does seem an odd choice when you went so nice with the rest of the components. but i have used those cheapo KMCs before and they do work just fine!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    so you spend good money on a phil hub; eno freewheel and then go with the 3 dollar colored chain?

    totally kidding but it does seem an odd choice when you went so nice with the rest of the components. but i have used those cheapo KMCs before and they do work just fine!
    Heh heh, yeah you nailed it with the cheap chain commentary. I track stand guilty as charged, and proud of it!

    Someone should start a thread, "Show us your chains and cogs!" with photos and specs and chain checker shots too.

    It would be interesting to me.

    I have ground some cogs into something I might be able to try sawing wood with.

    Paul

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