Dead Horse: Sliders vs. EBB- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Dead Horse: Sliders vs. EBB

    Sorry, I am a long time lurker, first time poster. I'm sure this topic has been beaten like the printer in Office Space.

    However, based on the current list of threads it seems like there are more problems with EBB designs than there are with sliding drop-outs? Yes?

    I, for one and a owner (Kona Explosif) and supporter of sliding dropouts for SS usage. EBBs slip, creak, and are just another 6+ parts (including hardware) that can fail, creak, need attention, grease, blah,blah, blah (according to customers testimonies on this site alone).

    SO THE QUESTION IS:
    Now that sliding dropouts have made there mark, are a few years old, past the growing pains, do they remain as one of the preferable options?

    No saddle adjustment
    Vertical drops for easy wheel removal
    W/ Disc Brakes, no pad readjustment
    W/ a half link, short stays for J-hopping

    Oh wait, I guess some folks swear they slip. Well, get a design that has a set screw that can set that rear axle in place!

  2. #2
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    I have no beef with my ebb.

    How do you figure 6+ parts? I only count one ebb and two set screws
    read KNOBBY MEATS or be sadly ignorant of the mediocrity that is allowed to exist in the interwebs

  3. #3
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    get old frame - get eccentric ENO hub. As simple as that haboogie boogie

  4. #4
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    I Had Sliders...

    on my last SS frame, and while I never had a problem with them, didn't love them. My Jones has Bushnell EBB and so far I am much happier with it than I was with the sliders. No creaks, no slips. I guess it might have six parts (i think mine has 8), but I take it completely apart and thoroughly clean it every couple of months. We're talking about 20 minutes of maintanence in exchange for flawless performance, an easy trade! It is interesting to watch posts where people argue over grams of weight and the 'relative' importance of the incremental performance of this high end component versus that, but seem completely unwilling to spend time with routine maintanence. A higher price or more precise function is not a substitute for a little attention.
    MTBDad
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  5. #5
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    Sliders are cool.

    EBBs... they used to be cool, back when there were nothing but split shell EBBs which don't seem to suffer the problems that the newer whiz bang ones do. That's what happens when people try to improve on something that has already been refined to its ultimate design -- they make it worse instead of better.

    As you pointed out, all sliders are not equal. Some slip. Same thing with EBBs. They're not equal either. But that doesn't mean all are bad -- neither sliders nor EBBs.

    There are good ones and bad ones.

    --Sparty
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    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    That's what happens when people try to improve on something that has already been refined to its ultimate design -- they make it worse instead of better.

    --Sparty
    Sparty, I could not agree more.

    An old post, but the EBB rant is still as accurate now...

    http://groovycycleworks.blogspot.com...ake-shape.html

    Design it for function, performance, and simplicity. To be different for the sake of it is a waste for all.

    cheers,

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peacefrog34

    SO THE QUESTION IS:
    Now that sliding dropouts have made there mark, are a few years old, past the growing pains, do they remain as one of the preferable options?

    No saddle adjustment
    Vertical drops for easy wheel removal
    W/ Disc Brakes, no pad readjustment
    W/ a half link, short stays for J-hopping

    Oh wait, I guess some folks swear they slip. Well, get a design that has a set screw that can set that rear axle in place!
    I'm not sure.
    Why ?
    They are not so easy to center, need to have a good eye, or else rear wheel is not centered correctly. Also 6 bolts...
    Another thing is, they change the bikes wheelbase (= traction , longer stays). Not everyone likes that.
    But of course, this may be a small price compared to the alternatives.
    Personally I would preffer the Eno hub & standrad frame drop out over any other tensioning device. although I never tried one, it seems like the most leat compromising solution.

  8. #8
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    My experience:

    I've been using a Bushnell EBB for 5 years, solid and has never made a sound. Maintenance includes greasing the unit twice a year which I do when I have to adjust for chain stretch.

    I have had 2 bikes that used paragon sliding dropouts, 1 was stainless steel and the other was titanium. Love the concept, adjusting chain tension was very precise but I found the bolts would loosen up every couple weeks, even with blue loctite; easy enough to tighten when you notice it (feels like loose cones on your rear hub). I eventually had problems stripping the bolt heads as I eventually started cranking the bolts in too tight.

    My '98 Brodie Unibomber has horizontal dropouts and v-brakes. Using an axle tug I have no complaints, it's a completely non-sexy setup, low tech and I really don't notice it. Tensing the chain is much easier, but more work to get the wheel straight in the dropout.

    So that's my experience take it for what it is. I would not buy another bike with sliding dropouts, the paragon are considered one of the better systems and I just didn't like it. The Bushnel EBB is solid, would buy another bike with this system in a heartbeat. There are lot's EBB implementations out there and I agree with Sparticus that some are good and some are not as good. As far as horizontal dropouts are concerned the bike I just ordered has horizontal dropouts, simple and light (EBB has a 1/2 pound penalty).

  9. #9
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    Agree with you, byteMe. In addition to my EBB'd Vulture, I have an On-One with horiz slot drops. Wheel changes aren't nearly as convenient as with the vert drop Vulture, but horiz drops aren't so bad either.

    --Sparty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  10. #10
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    I'm new to EBBs & I don't know the design of the one on my used but new-to-me one month old bike but it works just fine.

    I've made a lot of changes to the drivetrain in the month I've had it, so have had to adjust it repeatedly in that time. And even though I've never seen/used an EBB before I managed just fine. Haven't had any issues with it either.

    So I'd say the only drawback, for me at least, is having to constantly adjust seat height as I readjust the EBB. I'm not too finicky about fore/aft positioning & haven't had to make those sorts of adjustments since I've had the bike but seat height is a different matter.

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