Cracked Paragon Sliders- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    aka baycat
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    Cracked Paragon Sliders

    Bike frame cracked right at the start of the paragon sliders on the drive side. Tubing or metal there is thin and a good local welder said he can fix it and reinforce the area. Has anyone had a similar break? Had it fixed and no further cracks?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cracked Paragon Sliders-paragon-crack.jpg  


  2. #2
    Schipperkes are cool.
    Reputation: banks's Avatar
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    I'd have the frame builder remove the broken dropout and install a new one. Welding the dropout may not be the best idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  3. #3
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    I've always been weary of those cut-out sliders. I'm sure even the non cut out paragons have broken, but this pushes me away from the cut-outs even more.

    Make sure the welder knows those are stainless steel!

  4. #4
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    Sorry for the question, but are those actually Paragon Sliders, or just Paragon-like sliders?
    That looks like a warranty, customer service issue for the framebuilder. Local guy might be good, but punt it back to the maker.
    **** censorship

  5. #5
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    Totally agree and so long as this was normal usage I'd call warranty. Good builder would fix this. And if they didn't "cover" it I'd still feel more comfortable if they did the work.
    Click That Sh*t

  6. #6
    aka baycat
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    They are the "light" or cut out Paragon Sliders. Frame cracked when pedaling to my car; not even on the trail or standing up to mash.

    I wish the original builder would work on it but that he is unavailable. Have some really good local welder(s) who will help. Originally was going to just weld and reinforce but kinda turned off by Paragon Sliders now after reading and some more research. and will seek out replacing the whole drop out or bike which really sucks.

    Thanks!

  7. #7
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    Was it a Badger frame?

  8. #8
    aka baycat
    Reputation: Ryan G.'s Avatar
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    No it wasn't a Bader frame. This thing rode well and had good alignment

  9. #9
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    Ryan,

    Mark Norstad at Paragon is aware of the issue. The first generation sliders did have a very thin web and have been fracturing under heavier/stronger riders after about a 2 year fatigue time.

    While he is replacing the dropout with either a solid or heavier web version, it is up to your framebuilder to perform the work and absorb the cost of the procedure.

    FWIW, I've had four frames in the last two years all break at that point...fortunately I only have one more out there that utilized the window sliders, and it belongs to my son

    It can be repaired by machining a solid piece of steel to fit in the window and then welding it all back together; a nice solid approach until it can be replaced.

    cheers,

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  10. #10
    aka baycat
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    Thanks a ton for your reply rody. Value your opinon and you know your stuff of course

  11. #11
    nothing to see here
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    I had 2 Kona Units break in the same spot. Slightly different sliders, but poor engineering in a high stress area I'm afraid.

    This one wasn't mine.


    This was one of mine.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  12. #12
    Schipperkes are cool.
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    Kona does not equal Paragon
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    Kona does not equal Paragon
    I know that.

    I just posted the photos to show how much stress is placed on that area due to the design. The leverage that the rear axle places on this point from being so far behind the end of the chainstay and the seat stay makes this a no-brainer. It's not a place to save weight.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  14. #14
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    Agree with that. Unwise to safe weight at that spot. (and many others... )
    I had a Santa Cruz and a Giant fail on me in the exact same place.
    Both replaced under warranty.
    Belgian beer and Scotch whisky.

  15. #15
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    I recall reading about Lynskey replacing their rear sliders as well (the ones with clover shaped cut outs) if that has any relation to this...
    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    Kona does not equal Paragon
    More of a design flaw than anything. Lynskey definitely equals paragon. Lynskey was amazing with their customer service but the area is a weak point in the slider design.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cracked Paragon Sliders-lynskey-pictures-001-%5Bdesktop-resolution%5D.jpg  


  17. #17
    MONKEYMAN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rody
    FWIW, I've had four frames in the last two years all break at that point...fortunately I only have one more out there that utilized the window sliders, and it belongs to my son
    cheers,
    rody
    Wait. You've had 4 frames that broke in the exact same place in 2 years? Are you a masochist? I mean once or twice I might chalk it up to crappy manufacture or materials. After the third I'd be forgetting about that particular design. Certainly wouldn't be giving it to my son! Do you hate your son? Is he a masochist like his Pop?

    Reminds me of the friend who had 5 Ellsworth frames crack on him (3 on the downtube, 1 seatstay, 1 seat tube/BB). He kept telling me about how unbelievably great these frames were. Kept buying them only to have them crack. My Slingshot Farmboy is still going strong even after he insisted that it would blow up on me one day. "It'll never last 2 seasons" -- It has outlasted 4 of his 5 Ellsworths.

    Ain't no crazy like fanboy crazy!
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  18. #18
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    Finger,

    If you'll read carefully, the frames all had about 2 years of use/fatigue before the issue became known. Certainly, once the design flaw was discovered, Mark and company quickly moved to improve the product, but by that time, numerous dropouts were already in bikes being used daily. In this case, 5 of 22 frames produced during the time period.

    I would not consciously use materials that are known to be unreliable or unsafe, as it is my legal responsibility to provide products that are safe, as well as my financial responsibility to repair or replace any defective products. This is a fundamental requirement of my commitment to my customers.

    The design failure, while disappointing, has not proven to be catastrophic to this point, and has been easily identified by those who practice regular maintenance. As all frames produced by Groovy with this design have been identified and recalled, I feel that I've done my due diligence. The fact that the last frame, my son's, can be carefully observed for potential issues before they occur, makes me a responsible builder and parent, not masochistic.

    I am offended by your nonchalant assertions, as they serve to reinforce why very few knowledgeable industry folks contribute to user forums, even in an effort to assist.

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  19. #19
    MONKEYMAN
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    Rody~

    I completely missed your signature. I thought you were just another poster who happened to have bought the same 4 bikes and not the 'voice of Groovy'. It wasn't clear that these were customer owned groovy frames.

    I assumed.

    My bad.

    Regarding offense at <i>nonchalant assertions</i> - knowledgeable industry folks should get over themselves.
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  20. #20
    Out spokin'
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    Quote Originally Posted by finger51
    ...

    Regarding offense at nonchalant assertions - knowledgeable industry folks should get over themselves.
    Not going to happen. Nor should it. Most of the folks who frequent the MTBR forums do so for fun. But for industry folks, bikes are their business. As Rody said, there's a duty owed. Sadly there's as much BS opinion and misinformation here as there is gold nuggets -- the challenge lies in telling truth from fiction.

    If I were in the bike biz, I doubt I'd hang here. If I did, I'd probably become an alcoholic trying to 'set things straight.' Hell, I do too much of this as it is... case in point... this post.

    Don't thank me.

    --sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  21. #21
    MONKEYMAN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    But for industry folks, bikes are their business.
    Again, I'll restate. I honestly didn't notice his sig. Didn't know he was groovy. Didn't know he was talking about customer bikes.

    Don't thank me.
    --sParty
    Are they pink?


    .
    Last edited by finger51; 12-02-2010 at 02:16 PM.
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  22. #22
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    Hell, I did not notice it either! None the less, I think it is great when we get some of the vendors in here trying to set things straight! But I can see where it could really wear you down for sure!

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