Carbon Single Speed Bike Frame 2010 Battle- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 66 of 66
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metrotuned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,812

    Wink Carbon Single Speed Bike Frame 2010 Battle

    Single Speed, Twenty Nine Inches, and gasp... Carbon Fiber. The material that early adopters and counter-cultural rebels probably never thought would be associated with SS and 29er mountain bikes. Since we don't have levitating skateboards highlighted twenty years ago in Hollywood circa '89, I suppose this will suffice. The roadies are gonna be envious, the 2010 battle has begun with carbon fiber single speed 29er bikes.

    "The big S" found posted on MTBR behind the scenes at the Specialized offices that to the common eye, appeared to be a Fisher Superfly painted over with art deco pastel Specialized logos:



    "Superfly" found posted by howard.dylanbike of "dave's 18lb carbon superfly ss" with the titan uranus seatpost. The first to hit with their carbon 29ers, with a number of MTBR members converting their geared Superflys to single speed. GF listened and released the SS specific Superfly's to industry insiders, selling for as high as $2500 on ebay for frame only.



    "Niner", with its ear to the MTBR forums, tops everything, throwing up a bit middle finger to all the non-believers with its original all carbon rigid fork seen in the SSWC 2008 race, taking its cues from the road carbon technology, and applying to an MTB specific design, finally the enthusiasts see a complete carbon frameset that is cohesive and aesthetically blended, full respect. Stunning, really. Niner 2010 owns: All Your carbon 29er SS are belong to us!

    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

  2. #2
    Hack Racer
    Reputation: Cheers!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,559


    Ellsworth Enlightenment 29er. Dropouts can be replaced to run: Geared, Singlespeed Chain, and Singlespeed belt drive!

    cables are internally routed. Talk about BLING!

  3. #3
    Ovaries on the Outside
    Reputation: umarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,366
    I like the Superfly.

    Not a huge fan of carbon fiber, mainly stemming from frame aesthetics. Still, keep posting pictures and woo me....

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    The final Stumpy looks much better than those preproduction photos. And it comes with a custom tapered Reba with a carbon crown.

    I generally would not choose anything Specialized over Fisher or Niner, but Niner does not have any established history for their carbon frames, and Fisher keeps skimping and leaving the 'Fly as a non-OCLV frame that seems to be much more prone to failure than their competitors or their even own OCLV frames. Not only that but the 2010 Superfly SS is currently unavailable due to the dropout fiasco.

  5. #5
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    I hate to say it, but the specialized is the nicest looking of the bunch.

  6. #6
    WNC Native
    Reputation: nitrousjunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,667
    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    I hate to say it, but the specialized is the nicest looking of the bunch.
    Sadly, I agree.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    1,510
    Ned was riding a specialized carbon fiber 29 single speed at durango last month at the sscw

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ernesto_from_Wisconsin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,004
    I want to make a frame out of circus peanuts

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: farrisw1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin
    I want to make a frame out of circus peanuts
    I had that once but I had to eat the frame to stay alive when I got lost for 4 days on a series of unmarked trails in Lakeland, TN back in 1996.....

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    55
    So much for the simplicity of single speed...

    Ernesto, the candy kind or the kind you feed to elephants? Maybe you could make a composite, hard peanut shell on the outside, soft sugary center... Mmmm

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: can't get right's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,289
    I usually like his bikes but that Ells is the ugliest thing Tony has ever produced.

    I say that but I have never seen his kids......I keed, I keed.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by can't get right
    I usually like his bikes but that Ells is the ugliest thing Tony has ever produced.

    I say that but I have never seen his kids......I keed, I keed.
    The internet can find anything

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CoffeeBean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    146

    No good

    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    The final Stumpy looks much better than those preproduction photos. And it comes with a custom tapered Reba with a carbon crown.

    I generally would not choose anything Specialized over Fisher or Niner, but Niner does not have any established history for their carbon frames, and Fisher keeps skimping and leaving the 'Fly as a non-OCLV frame that seems to be much more prone to failure than their competitors or their even own OCLV frames. Not only that but the 2010 Superfly SS is currently unavailable due to the dropout fiasco.

    Speaking of "dropout fiasco", it looks like Specialized also has taken a poor design choice for a SS bike...
    Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind...Dr Seuss.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeBean
    Speaking of "dropout fiasco", it looks like Specialized also has taken a poor design choice for a SS bike...
    are you referring to tried and true track ends as a fiasco? Boy, those words will get you hurt in this town

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 7daysaweek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,635
    They're all just lucky that Vassago doesn't make a carbon Jabberwocky........

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    The internet can find anything
    Very creepy boomn, very creepy.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Renovatio
    Very creepy boomn, very creepy.
    Too much?

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CoffeeBean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    146
    I am the great Cornholio! Are you threatening me?

    lighten up brudda...
    Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind...Dr Seuss.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: donmeredith74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    299
    I have to go with the Niner. It speaks to me.

  20. #20
    Plastic homer
    Reputation: Moval49er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    592
    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    I generally would not choose anything Specialized over Fisher or Niner, but Niner does not have any established history for their carbon frames, and Fisher keeps skimping and leaving the 'Fly as a non-OCLV frame that seems to be much more prone to failure than their competitors or their even own OCLV frames. Not only that but the 2010 Superfly SS is currently unavailable due to the dropout fiasco.
    So far, I have had great luck on my Flys - the '08 didn't even scratch on my last wreck - can't say as much for my leg Riding in my aircast now!

    Not sure what Fisher had in mind for the dropouts - my '09 with track ends is a trouble-free ride. They just should have put that into production.

    The Spec is a beaut, though...

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16
    Hey! I do believe that is my superfly on parade here. That was at day of endurance a few weeks back. Singlespeed Victory! Ok whatever. I havent had any issues with my dropouts. What is actually going on?

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Superflyguy
    Hey! I do believe that is my superfly on parade here. That was at day of endurance a few weeks back. Singlespeed Victory! Ok whatever. I havent had any issues with my dropouts. What is actually going on?
    The 2010 version with mini sliding dropouts was not tested properly and was slipping for many people. Fisher is not selling the frame right now until they design something new. There is a thread here

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Superflyguy
    Hey! I do believe that is my superfly on parade here. That was at day of endurance a few weeks back. Singlespeed Victory! Ok whatever. I havent had any issues with my dropouts. What is actually going on?
    Have to agree, The Ellsworth is a tad ugly-Wonder if a good girdle could hide some of those curves?

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CoffeeBean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    146
    there is also the extended controversy over sliding dropouts on a SS-Racer intended bike...since quick release skewers were not possible, it seemed like bolting the rear wheel in place was not the most ideal way to race since it took more time to fix a rear flat....don't get me wrong, the Superfly is one sick light frame with awesome geometry numbers, just that sliding dropouts gave it a little -1 on the racer's edge according to the hardcore.
    Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind...Dr Seuss.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CoffeeBean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    146
    Quote Originally Posted by donmeredith74
    I have to go with the Niner. It speaks to me.
    yes...that is a beauty...

    all carbon...even the steerer tube!!

    well thought out and it even uses their better version of an EBB....makes selecting the right gear just that simple.
    Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind...Dr Seuss.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16
    are you talking about the 2010 fisher?

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CoffeeBean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    146

    nah, for 2010, they are finally getting it right...seems they had to go do their homework in the field. You would think they would have gotten it right the first time...but oh well..the bigger the company, the slower the evolution.
    Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind...Dr Seuss.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeBean
    nah, for 2010, they are finally getting it right...seems they had to go do their homework in the field. You would think they would have gotten it right the first time...but oh well..the bigger the company, the slower the evolution.
    did you read this thread that I linked to earlier? Those new dropouts are the ones that don't work properly and Fisher is having to redesign them again.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CoffeeBean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    146
    no, I did not. bummed to see they are having problems with the new design...one bolt on the non drive side seemed like it would have been enough...hopefully Gary Fisher customer service will help them keep their customers happy.
    Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind...Dr Seuss.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeBean
    no, I did not. bummed to see they are having problems with the new design...one bolt on the non drive side seemed like it would have been enough...hopefully Gary Fisher customer service will help them keep their customers happy.
    Yep, it sounds like they have been working hard to make sure their happy, and I don't doubt they will come up with a great replacment

  31. #31
    Time to go farther
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,338
    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeBean
    Speaking of "dropout fiasco", it looks like Specialized also has taken a poor design choice for a SS bike...
    LOL. I've used those for years now with a QR, they're great and the lightest option.
    On-One Lurcher SS
    Speedway Cycles Fatback Ti SS
    1984 Trek 560
    http://slipangles.blogspot.com/ - It's supposed to be fun

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16
    I have the 2010 version and have no problems. I would remove the stock bolts and replace them with larger headed bolts though. I did this not because of the issues posted here, but because i stripped one of the heads out.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metrotuned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,812
    Looking at the '10 GF dropouts on the carbon SS Superfly, seems like a lot of that came from the Black Cat Cycles dropout hinge design on brake caliper side and the Paragon Machine Works sliding dropout design on the driveside.

    @superflyguy: bike owners who use Paragon Machine Works sliding dropouts also replace their dropout allen bolts with wider surface hex bolts to prevent slipping. Makes sense functionally, but takes a hit on the aesthetics.
    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: el davido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    71
    I just used some old school canti brake bolts that just happened to be the right length. A larger star washer will help as well if slippage is an issue.
    I'm not the monster here, you are. You and the rest of that fairy tale trash, poisoning my perfect world.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Charlie Cheswick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    68
    I would ride any of those bikes silly.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    47
    That niner in yellow is HOOOT! I want!

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by djump
    That niner in yellow is HOOOT! I want!
    are you an owl? At least translate it for the rest of us

  38. #38
    Really I am that slow
    Reputation: SlowerThenSnot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,777
    So far i'm digging my ibis tranny even with its little girl wheels!
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: can't get right's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,289
    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot
    So far i'm digging my ibis tranny even with its little girl wheels!
    I hear you are sucker for any kind of tranny

    Name:  sassy-tranny.jpg
Views: 17119
Size:  59.1 KB

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Flat Ark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,646
    I guess I'll be the odd ball here cause I'm diggin that Ellsworth.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    381
    I am riding this as a SS right now in the 26" version... It hauls major ballz... Super light and stiff and with a SID WC on front with Pop-loc when I have the fork locked out standing up and mashing feels effortless...
    http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?la...xid=70&pid=151
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon Single Speed Bike Frame 2010 Battle-img_1361.jpg  


  42. #42
    aka baycat
    Reputation: Ryan G.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,478
    They are lovely road bikes

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    565
    Only 26" but the best out there
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon Single Speed Bike Frame 2010 Battle-p6190003.jpg  

    Carbon Single Speed Bike Frame 2010 Battle-p6190004.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metrotuned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,812

    Wilier rub-off

    Pretty funny. I came across a Wilier carbon bike when looking for a geared roadie. It reminded me a lot of what the Specialized carbon bike emulated. A roadie Italian carbon race bike. Wilier is 50% looks if not more, self-proclaimed "sexy" --- which is not a bad thing.

    2010 is almost here, have there been any new contenders to the 2010 29er SS carbon battle? Is there enough room (market demand)?

    Name:  wilier.jpg
Views: 3142
Size:  31.1 KB

    Doppelganger:

    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ianick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,183
    Hmm. Missing the point for me.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    698
    My vote is for the Specialized.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fixedforbroke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    103
    im going to have to repent for lust.
    Req. Disclaimer: I sell Giant, Trek, and Electra bikes.
    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantGorgon
    The no-brainer store called, they want their question back.

  48. #48
    Help I've Fallen
    Reputation: dwick37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by esku
    Only 26" but the best out there
    Man if Ibis had a 29er Tranny I would buy it in a heartbeat. My Mojo SL is the best I've ridden.
    016 Santa Cruz Hightower
    2017 Santa Cruz 5010 CC
    2017 Specialized Epic Pro
    2013 SIR 9 Rigid SS

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    23


    It isn't a 2010, but it is carbon and a 29er... I used forward components BB to get her setup SS. Only downside was that my Noir carbon cranks didn't work and I had to use the stylo's... still some parts to swap out, but overall, I love this bike!

  50. #50
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,589
    Quote Originally Posted by dwick37
    Man if Ibis had a 29er Tranny I would buy it in a heartbeat. My Mojo SL is the best I've ridden.

    With the bolt on rear end, I would think a custom 29" capable rear end would be possible. If not in carbon then at least in aluminum....

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    23
    I must be a computin' foo. why isn't my pic attaching to the post?!?!?!

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by tm29er
    I must be a computin' foo. why isn't my pic attaching to the post?!?!?!
    the address you posted in the IMG tag is a link the Picasa page not the image itself, so it can't insert that object into the post as an image.

    Right click and select "view image" or "open image in new tab" or whatever your browser has to view just the picture. Copy the address for this image and paste that into the tag, like this:


    very nice setup by the way.

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    23
    sweet! Thanks for the elementary education on inserting images!!!?!? I thought I was better than that. Apparently not....

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1
    My vote is on the Ellsworth for something very different. I bet you turn more heads with it then the others. Though, I am sure they all ride sweet!!!

  55. #55
    Dirty South Underdog
    Reputation: Andrea138's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,727
    Bump... anyone else liking/disliking the Fisher or the Specialized? I want an Air9, but the wait time is insane.
    Brickhouse Blog (most known unknown)

    Just Riding Along- best internet radio show on Mountain Bike Radio

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation: njbiker66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    445
    I'm going with the niner or ellesworth is pretty nice looking to. I just really like how the Frame and fork meet up on the Air 9. its just a really smooth transition.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jonw9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    748
    I raced my Superfly last week.

    no slider issues thus far *knocks wood*



    But, i think if you haven't ordered the Fisher yet, you won;t get one until the 2011's come out around August.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metrotuned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,812

    Cool-blue Rhythm The GF is nice, but....

    After 6 months, looking like the Gary Fisher Superfly's are hittin' the wild in numbers. In fact, I just acquired a titanium ride thanks to the previous owners jones for the carbon fiber composite realm (a GF SF SS of all bikes). But it's those in the know that are waiting for the Air9 to hit, 'cause that is the game changer, and Niner has practically all bases covered on everything appealing to the MTBR crowd.

    Carbon Single Speed Bike Frame 2010 Battle-air9.jpg
    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

  59. #59
    Dirty South Underdog
    Reputation: Andrea138's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,727
    Yeah- it's really the only one I've seen that has everything I want. Might just have to wait.
    Brickhouse Blog (most known unknown)

    Just Riding Along- best internet radio show on Mountain Bike Radio

  60. #60
    I have red hair
    Reputation: RedGreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    265
    Quote Originally Posted by jonw9
    I raced my Superfly last week.




    .
    That looks like Yankee Springs maybe?
    "I don't believe in brakes, all they do is slow you down"

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jonw9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    748
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGreen
    That looks like Yankee Springs maybe?
    Yankee Springs definitely....

  62. #62
    Mtbr Forum Sponsor - Homebrewed Components
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,419
    It isn't a 29er, but the Tranny is my favorite out of all the carbon models on the market. Despite it's somewhat average looks, it handles like a dream.
    It seems like they put a bit of time into making something that was extremely functional, versatile, and race worthy rather than something that just follows the latest fads. They are also very reasonably priced for what you get.

  63. #63
    Birthday Collector
    Reputation: ATBScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,603
    I'll go with the Niner for looks, aesthetics-wise. For me, it looks like it was all meant to be together. That Ellsworth is the fugliest thing I have seen in some time! Fisher and Specialized are both OK - nothing either calls out to me or repels me with their looks. Ultimately, the ride will make the decision, but the Ellsworth just might be so ugly (and with the internal cable routing...) that I would not even give it a chance.
    R.I.P. Corky 10/97-4/09
    Disclaimer: I sell and repair bikes for a living


  64. #64
    Let's ride
    Reputation: rensho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    7,126
    That Specialized is looking pretty sweet. Anyone have any intel on how the frame is working out? Any issues to speak of?

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metrotuned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,812
    @rensho, didn't you see the S-works posted in the 29er forum all Edge'd out! http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=607900

    It's not the SS, but a geared variation of the same frame.
    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metrotuned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,812
    Three words and some letters: GARY FISHER SUPERFLY SS.
    Creative Producer, Will of the Sun, Platform Pedal Shootout 1M+ views WoS

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.