Building an XC SS Full Suspension race bike for a buddy, frame questions:- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Building an XC SS Full Suspension race bike for a buddy, frame questions:

    Preferences:
    100-120mm travel
    Carbon
    Price 2-4k
    Chainring capacity 38t
    New only for warranty
    Will run a tensioner
    Swamping parts from HT, including RS1 fork.

    I gave him a list of potential bikes, hes leaning toward the Blur, SB 100, and a Felt. I did some searching but its fiffi to find max chainring capacity.

    Hes riding hardtail now, so hes not picky, he just wants a more comfortable ride.

    Hes not interested in custom due to cost and time; needs to be off the shelf and built for racing in June.

    No interest in YBB kinda of frames.

    Blur, SB 100, Intense Sniper, Fezzari Signal Peak, Ibis Ripley, etc...
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  2. #2
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    Specialized Epic FS.
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    I ran a GF Sugar SS for awhile and then I discovered steel. Had a Ti FS for a bit but always came back to the steel HT. I've been riding nothing but steel for over 10 years. I have no desire for FS and I'm 47. Find what feels good and be happy.

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  4. #4
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    I dont even know if its available as frame only, but have you looked at the giant anthem 29?

  5. #5
    Hardtail Steel Forever
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    Hard to go wrong with the Blur. Not sure if they will sell a frame only without the fork though.
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  6. #6
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    Sounds like a fun build! I rode an older blur xc SS with a tensioner for a season; worked very well and was a fun change of pace.

    Possibly a naive suggestion- could you run a double or triple crank and use the outer position to maximize chainring clearance? Would you have enough chainline adjustment on a SS rear wheel to get it aligned? 38 tooth is large in 1x world
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  7. #7
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    Id like to pick up a Lenz Milkmoney or Lunchmoney some day, more as a novelty than anything.

    For me personally, a lockout on the rear shock would be an absolute requirement on a FS SS. The remotes on the Blur would be a nice added feature over a bike without them. Other than that, any bike would work just fine with a tensioner.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  8. #8
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    Why is a remote lockout mandatory? Is it that hard to reach down and flip a lever? It just seems excessive to have three remotes on your bars, plus two brakes and a shifter.

    After he played on my Signal Peak he had both ends locked out, so I suspect hed keep them locked when racing, open on long downhills, maybe use propedal or a lower sag %.

    There is a 2018 Giant on Pinkbike with an SC32, front and rear remote lockouts.

    Hes currently on a Chinese carbon hardtail with an RS1, all carbon extras, Onyx hub.
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  9. #9
    agu
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    Trek Top Fuel?

  10. #10
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    Nobody said a remote was necessary. Just that the blur with remotes would be a nice added feature.

    This really isn't that hard, nor is it singlespeed specific. Finding a frame with clearance for a 38t chainring seems to be the only real criteria here, and I doubt many people will know what frames would fit that since I doubt many people would ever run that size of chainring.

    FWIW, I've run my Tallboy SS and now my GT Sensor and the stiffer riding VPP doesn't necessarily mean it pedals better than the Horst link on my GT. More than anything, I think trying to stay on top of the suspension rather than in it will make the biggest difference. Lower sag and higher rebound will help this.

  11. #11
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    Hmm, not much feedback, kinda figured thered be more folks running full suspension SS.

    Any favorite tensioner?

    FWIW: Shinkers, I have you blocked indefinitely.
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  12. #12
    Armature speller
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    I'm going to use a Zee Shadow+ rear mech as the tensioner on the AnthemSS

  13. #13
    Hardtail Steel Forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Any favorite tensioner?
    Shimano Alfine is cheap and works really well, it's not super light though. It has a super strong spring and is long enough it can take up a ton of slack, you could probably run 1x3 with it.

    I use the Paul Melvin on my main SS. It's a lot lighter and cleaner looking than the alfino but it can't take up as much slack.

    Edit, just looked them up and the Melvin can compensate for 20t of wrap the alfine only 16, so the paul is actually better all around.
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  14. #14
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    I see you limited it and he is not interested in a "YBB", which I take to mean a URT (Unified Rear Triangle). I run an old Homegrown SweetSpot URT and love it, so I'm not sure what the aversion is. Granted, it's 20 years old and getting straight steer tube forks is getting harder to do, but I'm running mine as a 27.5 with disc brakes and a Soulcraft Convert tensioner (no springs!). The whole setup weighs in at 24 lbs, climbs like a mountain goat and takes enough of the edge off the bumps to make it my Go-to ride.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jestep View Post
    Shimano Alfine is cheap and works really well, it's not super light though. It has a super strong spring and is long enough it can take up a ton of slack, you could probably run 1x3 with it.

    I use the Paul Melvin on my main SS. It's a lot lighter and cleaner looking than the alfino but it can't take up as much slack.

    Edit, just looked them up and the Melvin can compensate for 20t of wrap the alfine only 16, so the paul is actually better all around.
    Is the Paul worth the expense? Is anyone using the Rohloff?
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  16. #16
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    Just built up a Canfield Riot SS a few weeks ago using a Rohloff XC tensioner that'll go to a 21t cog which is what I'm using. The Rohloff XC needs 55+mm chainline so using Raceface Aefect crankset with direct mount chainring flipped to give ~57-58mm chainline with appropriate washers/shims for Rohloff tensioner to match. Pedals really well though I pretty much leave it in the pedal setting on the DVO shock.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Hmm, not much feedback, kinda figured thered be more folks running full suspension SS.

    Any favorite tensioner?

    FWIW: Shinkers, I have you blocked indefinitely.
    You're not going to find many opinions on this subject from people who actually run a FS SS. The SS crowd is pretty puritan when you get down to the brass tax. I have even heard people (on multiple occasions) at races saying that converted FS bikes shouldn't be allowed in the SS class... those are opinions obviously.

    Personally, If I were going to do it on a 100mm bike I would try an EBB. 100mm of rear travel isn't a lot, and you may be able to get away with not running a tensioner. That setup would function better and look way cleaner.

    I have seen people use a magic gear on 100mm travel bikes before, so I am pretty certain it would work. Obviously it's "try at your own risk" though.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Is the Paul worth the expense? Is anyone using the Rohloff?
    If you don't care about the weight, I don't see any benefit with the Paul over the Shimano unless you care about 4t of chain wrap difference. I think the spring tension on the Shimano is quite a bit higher as well, I haven't measured this though, both certainly function well. I have not used the Rohloff so can't comment on it.
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  19. #19
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    Unless you consider using a URT frame you cannot use an EBB for a full suspension. You will need an Alfine/Paul/Rohloff/converted derailler as a tensioner.

  20. #20
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    Oh, I hear you, but its what he wants to do, Im just the mechanic .

    Hes actually pretty fast, top ten showings and a few podiums, but hes 46yo and he wants something that wont beat him up, I get that.

    If I had to guess, I think hell end up resorting to a hardtail for racing after some training on the FS; which is why I suggested he get a frame set that would work for geared riding too.

    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    You're not going to find many opinions on this subject from people who actually run a FS SS. The SS crowd is pretty puritan when you get down to the brass tax. I have even heard people (on multiple occasions) at races saying that converted FS bikes shouldn't be allowed in the SS class... those are opinions obviously.

    Personally, If I were going to do it on a 100mm bike I would try an EBB. 100mm of rear travel isn't a lot, and you may be able to get away with not running a tensioner. That setup would function better and look way cleaner.

    I have seen people use a magic gear on 100mm travel bikes before, so I am pretty certain it would work. Obviously it's "try at your own risk" though.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Unless you consider using a URT frame you cannot use an EBB for a full suspension. You will need an Alfine/Paul/Rohloff/converted derailler as a tensioner.
    Yea I am not sure how different suspension designs would react to that situation. I know the two I have seen were both single pivot. A horst link bike may have too much vertical travel at the bottom pivot... like I said, its a "try at your own risk" scenario.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Oh, I hear you, but its what he wants to do, Im just the mechanic .

    Hes actually pretty fast, top ten showings and a few podiums, but hes 46yo and he wants something that wont beat him up, I get that.

    If I had to guess, I think hell end up resorting to a hardtail for racing after some training on the FS; which is why I suggested he get a frame set that would work for geared riding too.
    I get both sides. Not wanting to get beat up is totally reasonable and as long as you're working within the rules of the race, it shouldn't matter what you're riding... at the same time, I have been stomped racing in a fat bike class because they let a CAT 1 guy on a 29+ Krampus enter the fat bike category. So I kind of understand where the rigid SS guys are coming from when they get pissy about full suspension SS.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Yea I am not sure how different suspension designs would react to that situation. I know the two I have seen were both single pivot. A horst link bike may have too much vertical travel at the bottom pivot... like I said, its a "try at your own risk" scenario.
    An EBB is to tension a chain only. It cannot account for any chain growth whatsoever. All full suspensions without a unified rear triangle (i.e. the bottom bracket and rear dropout being part of the same structure), require the chain to accommodate changes in distance between the bottom bracket and the drop out.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Is the Paul worth the expense? Is anyone using the Rohloff?
    I ran the Rohloff for the few months I had my Bronson as an SS rig. It worked really well. No complaints. I had the one with the proper chain line for Boost.

    Now it sits in a box because I still prefer hard tails.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Is the Paul worth the expense? Is anyone using the Rohloff?
    I am using the origin8 UL something or other and it is working great. It is very light and is very versatile. I can go Froome a 14t to a 22t with no issues. I have used the alfine as well and it does work very well too. It has more capacity in reality than what shimano say. It is also super stiff and robust but it is kinda a tank. I have also used the 1 jockey wheel style but those are not my cup of tea.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I see you limited it and he is not interested in a "YBB", which I take to mean a URT (Unified Rear Triangle). I run an old Homegrown SweetSpot URT and love it, so I'm not sure what the aversion is. Granted, it's 20 years old and getting straight steer tube forks is getting harder to do, but I'm running mine as a 27.5 with disc brakes and a Soulcraft Convert tensioner (no springs!). The whole setup weighs in at 24 lbs, climbs like a mountain goat and takes enough of the edge off the bumps to make it my Go-to ride.
    If they made a Sweetspot frame that fit 27.5 midfat tires, I'd be willing to sell a lot of stuff to buy it... Anybody know a builder that could do something like that?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    If they made a Sweetspot frame that fit 27.5 midfat tires, I'd be willing to sell a lot of stuff to buy it... Anybody know a builder that could do something like that?
    Funk is currently building me as Fs SS. My frame is being designed around 29x 2.6-3.0, but they can design around 27.5 too.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frs1661 View Post
    Sounds like a fun build! I rode an older blur xc SS with a tensioner for a season; worked very well and was a fun change of pace.

    Possibly a naive suggestion- could you run a double or triple crank and use the outer position to maximize chainring clearance? Would you have enough chainline adjustment on a SS rear wheel to get it aligned? 38 tooth is large in 1x world
    This is what I do to get space for a 34/36.

  29. #29
    Rod
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    Finding any frame that can fit a 38 tooth chainring will be hard nowadays with the wider hub spacing on the rear. I think you would need to call the manufacturers to get this knowledge and a lot of it depends on the crankset you choose. My XTC couldn't accept a 34 with an XX1 crank. I installed an old school Shimano 3x and mounted my 34 on the outer ring. I now have plenty of space and could install a 36, but I have no idea if a 38 would fit. Finding a 38 is another story. Custom made, road crankset? Good luck and post back what you find out.

  30. #30
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    I've been hesitant to recommend the Epic in general to people because of the Brain. But Bike Yoke just came out with a Yoke for the frame to run an aftermarket shock. I don't know the max chainring size, but Sam Gaze was running a 36 oval so I imagine a 38 would work. The bike was designed around a 32 though for best suspension performance. I get so little bob with a 32 that I am going to try and run the bike with the shock wide open and see how it performs in a practice race tomorrow.

  31. #31
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    Fezzari Signal Peak max 34t
    Intense Sniper max 36t

    He said he could do 36t, so leaning toward the Intense.

    But who knows what hell do, sent me a text earlier with a pic of a Titus Racer X 🙄

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  32. #32
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    Has anyone ever seen or built up a yeti sb as a single speed?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Unless you consider using a URT frame you cannot use an EBB for a full suspension. You will need an Alfine/Paul/Rohloff/converted derailler as a tensioner.
    Couldn't you on a single pivot if the pivot was at the BB.
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