Best SS/Disk/QR rear dropout setup? Not clear after search.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Best SS/Disk/QR rear dropout setup? Not clear after search.

    I've done several related searches and done quite a bit of reading on the subject but it seems the landscape may be changing with the advent of disk brakes and sliding dropouts.

    I'm a new single speeder looking for a single speed fatbike frame and unsure what type of rear dropouts to prefer - my recent experience with sliders having given me a new respect for the forces at work.

    It seems that the track forkend was once the obvious solution and I'm confident a chain tug can stop the drive side from going forward; what I'm concerned about is the ability to stop the brake side from moving back with disk brakes providing the backward force. Am I overestimating the problem? Will a Shimano skewer be able to resist that backward movement? On steel? As a kid I had trouble with a bolt-on coaster brake hub migrating back. It seems like the forkend could be modified to provide a key for an axle stop but I have not seen this in practice. Non-issue?

    Sliders seem like a good solution except that my experience with sliding dropouts has been less than stellar on my Trek Rig. Obviously some sliders are better than others but I'm not entirely convinced of my ability to identify good/bad designs on sight having recently mistaken bad for good.

    Vertical Drop/Chain Tensioner - I hate the idea of running a chain tensioner on a single speed but it seems like vertical dropouts may just sidestep some of the more challenging issues completely.

    Vertical Drop/EBB - I don't know of any fatbikes that use them. I've seen complaints about squeaks, creaks, etc. but have been happy with the one on my tandem.

    Thanks for any insight you can offer!

  2. #2
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    Have you taken a look at the White Industries ENO Eccentric rear hub? You can run it with their eccentric disc adaptor without spending too much. If not that, I would say go vertical on the dropouts with an EBB.
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  3. #3
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    All of the tensioning methods can work great, or piss poor. It completely depends on the execution of the design plus your variables. I've had sliders that hold, and sliders that slipped no matter what. I've had EBBs that were noisy and required constant maintenance, and ones that were trouble free. In other words, I wouldn't worry about it too much until you have some specific frames in mind.

  4. #4
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    I'm kind of a luddite, and have an irrational fear of anything 'eccentric' in my drivetrain. I use Surly's Monkey Nuts with track ends, despite the fact that I've got no need for front derailleur clearance. This sounds to like what you mean by "axle stop". It leaves the chainstays just slightly longer than I'd prefer but any farther forward and I would probably get some tire rub if the wheel comes even slightly off center anyways. I've used various bmx-style chain tugs on the drive side to pull back ever so slightly from the farthest forward position with the stops in place, though with my current gearing I'm able to position the axle right on the stop. I like to run tensioners on both sides with quick release just to give a bit more guidance on axle position but I'm not convinced its necessary.

    That being said you may be overestimating the problem. Even without the monkey nuts I was only able to jar the wheel significantly out of place by riding as fast as I can on pavement and completely locking up the back wheel. I'd expect a fatbike tire to have more grip than the 2.4-2.5" tires I keep on my bike, but I still think its rather unlikely you'd get enough force.

    Also, what OneBadWagon wrote above while I was mid-reply is spot-on. You'll get much better advice once you have specific frames to ask people's experience with.
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  5. #5
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    I've used vertical dropouts + EBB on a Chumba HX2. I did singlespeed w. disk and fixed gear without rear brake. Never had trouble of any kind. I only switched to a new frame because I needed a shorter one.

    Now I have track style forkends and I'm not expecting any trouble with this setup either. When it comes to the axle slipping backwards due to disc brake counter forces, remember that when you brake your weight moves forward and you have less traction in the rear. I don't think the stresses in that area are as high as on the drive side or front brake. If it becomes an issue, I'm sure some kind of a backwards tuggnut can be applied to the left side. But before that I'd make sure the skewer is a strong one and installed tight enough. Oh, and make sure you don't have any paint on the contact areas.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexCuse View Post
    Also, what OneBadWagon wrote above while I was mid-reply is spot-on. You'll get much better advice once you have specific frames to ask people's experience with.
    Quote Originally Posted by OneBadWagon
    In other words, I wouldn't worry about it too much until you have some specific frames in mind.
    Okay, frames. I'm open to other ideas but this is what I'm thinking...

    Surly Pugsley (Neck Romancer) - Steel with track ends. 135mm with offset hub (my preference).

    9:zero:7 - Brand new sliding dropouts. Relatively expensive. Seems risky. I would feel like a beta tester. Also available in vertical dropouts which would require a chain tensioner or something else. Backwards banner on their home page doesn't exactly inspire confidence...

    Salsa Mukluk - Sliding drops, presumably well tested but poor local support. My preference but availability of frames is limited. Also not thrilled about the 170mm rear end.

    I am tempted to pull the trigger on the Pugsley but a little worried about the brake side staying in place on the track fork ends. Hence my post.

  7. #7
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    A mukluk or system that has adjustable vertical dropouts is the way to go. I've never had good luck with an eccentric BB and am not sure how many fatbikes if any have an EBB due to the shear width of the BB shell area on a fatbike.

    This may be your answer to wanting standard 135 mm width rear end a sliders: Enter the Schlick Cycles North Paw (With Paragon sliders) Schlick Cycles | Northpaw

    I've seen one of these in action (build to a featherlite 23+ lbs) For Real!

    Great custom builds.

  8. #8
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    All designs can be implemented well or implemented poorly and all have fans and haters.

    Paragon stainless steel sliders are the gold standard. The Paragon approach good because it is a nice solid slot with a strong beefy dropout held by two strong bolts in an arrangement that will be 100% reliable. The dropout is threaded with strong threads that are big enough that they won't strip out.

    The cheap junk sliders on some china made aluminum frames are thin and/or held by undersized bolts and usually a nut for the back side. Often these are basically junk materials for the bolt/nut so I have seen these fail a few times. You can sometimes improve these designs by replacing the stock bolt/nut with something stronger but you may end up carry extra bolts and a wrench each time you ride because the tend to break.

    Some people are fans of EBB but in general they are more prone to problems with creaking although once again a quality driven EBB will work better.

    Swinging dropouts like black cat, salsa, and many others use are good and very similar to normal sliders. A paragon slider is a stronger design that will be less prone to failure or movement but swingers have the advantage that they are a little less prone to becoming stiff and hard to adjust after dirt gets into them. With sliders you may find you have to remove the slider and wipe it down before adjustment if the bike is really dirty.

  9. #9
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    If I ever get a fat bike, it will be the Pug. Main reason being the front/rear wheel interchangeablility. And if I did do that, I would build the wheels with a bolt-on hub. I like my XT QR, but I like the idea of 15mm bolts. They've been slip-free in my experience.

    But currently, my preferred rear dropout set up is standard with EBB. No messing with rear brake, lining up the wheel, etc. Fortunately, I've had no issues with EBB slippage.

  10. #10
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    My SS Pug is set up with a QR rear hub and Tuggnuts. Rock solid. Have also run a bolt-on hub with and without the Tugs. Just as solid.

    The only variation I would never use: QR with no Tugs. Recipe for pain and suffering.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the input.

    Truth told, the bike in consideration at the moment is for my wife who I expect will be less likely to move the rear wheel.

    We chose the Pug based on local support and availability.

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