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Thread: Belt bummer

  1. #1
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    Belt bummer

    Four months ago my roommate bought a beautiful Spot frame and dressed it with nothing but the best bling. He decided to give belt drive a whirl.

    We're training together for the Cascade Cream Puff 100 Mile Race, which features ~17,000' elevation gain in Oregon's steep Cascades Range foothills. We're lucky to live less than 40 miles from the race course so doing training rides in that redneck o' the woods is easy. Er, at least easy to get to.

    On his first rides with his new bike, the belt drive would "pop" when he'd get to a steep section. It was slipping a tooth. Simple solution -- tighten it up, which he did. It continued to pop so he continued to tighten it.

    He began to worry that the bearings in his CK BB & rear hub might be preloaded too much. I mean that belt was REALLY tight. But the bike shop that built the bike insisted that everything was okay.

    On last Wednesday's night ride, while climbing Goodman Creek Trail, it popped again... and slipped. He got off to inspect the situation and found about a half dozen teeth missing from the belt. He was only about two miles into the ride so he turned around to ride the mostly downhill trail back to the car. On the way, the belt snapped outright.

    Spot seems to have disappeared, at least temporarily, so the shop called Gates Carbon Drive directly. They said they'd never heard of such a thing and would replace the belt pronto.

    Meanwhile, I was looking forward to seeing first hand how the belt drive system worked, offered advantages over a chain, etc. I guess the jury is still out.

    Anybody else have a similar expereince? Just curious.

    --Sparty
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    Although 1 problem does not warrant blanket statements, it sounds like the jury is not out - they've given their verdict with toothless redneck smiles.

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    I like chains on my motorcycles and bicycles. Never thought much of belt drives. Much less cutting the frame to get the belt on.

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    First....

    let me say I'm glad to read you'll be on the pedal variety of twowheels this year vs...the moto patrol.

    On the belt drive...one of the things I thought about when I first saw it offered...was "field service." It would seem that similar to carrying an extra link or two of chain....if you run belt drive, you'd always carry around an extra belt...just in case?

    Do you know what the company says what is the average life of a belt?:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Four months ago my roommate bought a beautiful Spot frame and dressed it with nothing but the best bling. He decided to give belt drive a whirl.

    We're training together for the Cascade Cream Puff 100 Mile Race, which features ~17,000' elevation gain in Oregon's steep Cascades Range foothills. We're lucky to live less than 40 miles from the race course so doing training rides in that redneck o' the woods is easy. Er, at least easy to get to.

    On his first rides with his new bike, the belt drive would "pop" when he'd get to a steep section. It was slipping a tooth. Simple solution -- tighten it up, which he did. It continued to pop so he continued to tighten it.

    He began to worry that the bearings in his CK BB & rear hub might be preloaded too much. I mean that belt was REALLY tight. But the bike shop that built the bike insisted that everything was okay.

    On last Wednesday's night ride, while climbing Goodman Creek Trail, it popped again... and slipped. He got off to inspect the situation and found about a half dozen teeth missing from the belt. He was only about two miles into the ride so he turned around to ride the mostly downhill trail back to the car. On the way, the belt snapped outright.

    Spot seems to have disappeared, at least temporarily, so the shop called Gates Carbon Drive directly. They said they'd never heard of such a thing and would replace the belt pronto.

    Meanwhile, I was looking forward to seeing first hand how the belt drive system worked, offered advantages over a chain, etc. I guess the jury is still out.

    Anybody else have a similar expereince? Just curious.

    --Sparty
    Happy new year..Stuff $: Eno 29wheel (non disc), Yakima, 2 steelheads, with towers for Volvo luggage rails.

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    Roger - Gates says expect about twice the life of a chain, which is what Buell/Harley says, too. And yes, you'd always want to carry an extra belt.

  6. #6
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    Sparty - the same exact thing happened to my buddy Tim's belt drive hub, we joked "snap, crackle, pop" every time he went up a climb. I'll try and get him to come aboard this thread to comment.

    He lays down the build in detail here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=617192

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    I apologise for this being off-topic, but are you ss'ing the Puff again, Sparty? I thought you'd never do that again?

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    Butting in

    Since Sparty's out playingon his moto demon today, I will answer for him. No, he's not doing it SS. He's going to do it while riding his big Mama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orkje
    I apologise for this being off-topic, but are you ss'ing the Puff again, Sparty? I thought you'd never do that again?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger___
    ...It would seem that similar to carrying an extra link or two of chain....if you run belt drive, you'd always carry around an extra belt...just in case?...
    My belt drives do not skip and I use a similar tension to a fixie chain. I think skipping has a lot to do with laterally flexible chainstays.

    You carry a spare link and a chainbreaker.

    The spare belt is lighter than a chainbreaker.



    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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    My mini brute is lighter than that belt.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by p nut
    My mini brute is lighter than that belt.
    I have found tiny chainbreakers are pretty useless. Your experience may differ.

    The real point is a spare belt is light and does not require special tools.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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    Yes indeed. Very disappointed in belt drive. First the cost (which I will post later on when some body or any body from Gates who has the balls to answer my question will e-mail me back) The selection of available cogs and belts. Seriously no 94x5 or 110x5 front rings? The poor quality of fitment of the cogs. I was sent 2 Alfine cogs that did not fit the hub at all. I measure the second one and found out that it was to tight. (I'm a tool and die maker and have measuring devises you would not believe) I fixed it my self.The front ring ,which is a 39, has to be worked on around the spider. It goes on but not easy. The absolute pain in the you know what on getting a frame to even work with belt drive.
    Yes I can see were a stiff stay is a must, I'm on the fence about building another frame for belt drive. I wish some body else would build cogs and rings I know Phil Wood does but I wish Isuckatriding would add them to his catalog.

    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    I have found tiny chainbreakers are pretty useless. Your experience may differ.

    The real point is a spare belt is light and does not require special tools.
    Haven't tried other tiny chain break tools, but Mini Brute works awesome and was my main tool for a while (got a regular Brute, because I kept forgetting to put the Mini back in the pack). Nobody I've talked to using the Mini has complained about it nor have I ever heard it called "useless."

    But back on your point, yes, it is nice that no special tools are required, except maybe an allen wrench. Still, cons outweigh the pros, which is why I have never even been interested in the belt system. Could be potential down the road, though.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger___
    let me say I'm glad to read you'll be on the pedal variety of twowheels this year vs...the moto patrol.

    On the belt drive...one of the things I thought about when I first saw it offered...was "field service." It would seem that similar to carrying an extra link or two of chain....if you run belt drive, you'd always carry around an extra belt...just in case?

    Do you know what the company says what is the average life of a belt?:
    Thanks, Roger. It will be good to see you again... while I'm astride a bicycle, albeit a 1x8 (34t ring, 11-32 cassette).

    No, I will never singlespeed the Puff again. I was 48 y/o when I did that... and that was 8 years ago. While I don't think a singlespeed bike is a disadvantage in endurance events for the young, I do believe in really long endurance events ("ultra-endurance"), a SS hinders the older rider. I'll let individuals define "young" & "older." FWIW, I'm older @ 56, no doubt about that.

    No one should construe my comment above to mean I'm not a dedicated singlespeed rider. I love SS... but not for 100 miles plus 16,000'+ gain in a day. But that's just me.

    I don't know what Gates says the average life of the belt should be but I think my roommate said they claim 8,000 miles. In the case of my roommate's belt, it was 4 months and maybe 800 miles.

    See you in less than a week, Roger. Forecast is for 85 degrees and sunny. Perfect.

    --Sparty
    aka Davey Sprockett, King of the Wild Front Tire
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Four months ago my roommate bought a beautiful Spot frame and dressed it with nothing but the best bling. He decided to give belt drive a whirl.

    We're training together for the Cascade Cream Puff 100 Mile Race, which features ~17,000' elevation gain in Oregon's steep Cascades Range foothills. We're lucky to live less than 40 miles from the race course so doing training rides in that redneck o' the woods is easy. Er, at least easy to get to.

    On his first rides with his new bike, the belt drive would "pop" when he'd get to a steep section. It was slipping a tooth. Simple solution -- tighten it up, which he did. It continued to pop so he continued to tighten it.

    He began to worry that the bearings in his CK BB & rear hub might be preloaded too much. I mean that belt was REALLY tight. But the bike shop that built the bike insisted that everything was okay.

    On last Wednesday's night ride, while climbing Goodman Creek Trail, it popped again... and slipped. He got off to inspect the situation and found about a half dozen teeth missing from the belt. He was only about two miles into the ride so he turned around to ride the mostly downhill trail back to the car. On the way, the belt snapped outright.

    Spot seems to have disappeared, at least temporarily, so the shop called Gates Carbon Drive directly. They said they'd never heard of such a thing and would replace the belt pronto.

    Meanwhile, I was looking forward to seeing first hand how the belt drive system worked, offered advantages over a chain, etc. I guess the jury is still out.

    Anybody else have a similar expereince? Just curious.

    --Sparty
    Unfortunately I have had exactly the same experiance.
    Whilst I am quite sure that the belt does not actually slip under load, the popping noise that happens whilst the belt is under high tension (usually happens whilst pushing hard over a pinch climb or savage acceleration) is caused by the low tension side of the belt becoming slightly out of sync with the rear cog causing a slight mismatch. When the belt starts to gain tension at around the 8 o'clock position or 210deg from TDC, the teeth of the belt, snap back into their proper place on the cog resulting in the popping noise.

    I kept cranking up the tension on my belt to the point where I had only 3-4mm of deflection with the recommended down pressure, this is about 4mm less than is recommended by Gates, so my belt tension was quite high. Luckily both my frame, BB and hub could take it.

    I had ridden approx 2000miles on my belt and everything was working well. I knew how much I could push before it popped, which wasnt very often.
    The last time I rode with it, the popping noise became alot more frequent end for the first time, the belt started to wander off the front cog. Luckily I was nearly home, so I backed right off and cruised the rest of the way.

    When I inspected it that night, I noticed that 1 tooth had been torn off, and approx 30% of the rest of them had been torn at the base of the tooth to within 20% of being totally torn off.
    My belt was still intact, but from what you said happened to your friend, I dont think it would have been long before the belt snapped.

    I suspect that each time the belt popped, it put a new tear in a tooth.

    Anyway I have sent the belt back to the supplier to see what they think, and am awaiting a reply.

    I still really like the setup, but I now will only use it for certain conditions, like muddy or very dusty races and long epic rides.

  16. #16
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    I have built a number of belt drive bikes.

    My opinion is that belt popping (or klaakking as I call it ) is caused by a flexible chainstay, and extra tension will not cure it.

    One bike I built was pretty bad so I put it on rollers and got an observer to watch. What happens is when pressure is applied the chainstay flexes to one side. Now the rear axle is slightly out of parallel with the BB. As a result the belt teeth are not in line with the rear cog anymore and try to ride up. No amount of tension will solve that problem.

    There is a cure - place a snubber pulley at the 7 o'clock position at about 1mm from the belt. This will only act when the belt tries to ride up and keeps it down. However it is a bodge and not good practice, but it enables the bike to ride quietly. I suspect the belt would wear quickly, but I don't know because I dismantled that bike once I was satisfied the snubber worked.

    Other bikes I have done have had stiff chainstays and do not need much tension at all. They work without any klaakking.

    The reality is that this is the first generation of belt drives, and the second will probably come out with laterally stiff chainstays. Hopefully they will also drop the excessively complicated seatstay joint nonsense too.

    BTW the 39 tooth front ring is not sold in Europe because of unspecified problems - sounds like getting it to fit may be the problem

    Edit: I have been experimenting with belt drive for nearly 10 years now, and the current Gates system is the best so far.

    So basically I believe the problem is with the bike design causing the belt to be chewed up.
    Last edited by Velobike; 07-05-2010 at 05:22 AM.
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    Velo Bike
    This is the 3rd gen of belt drive that I know of . A company called Dan-Ed had a belt drive bike/system in the mid 90's and Spot also played with belt drive in the late 90's. So this is the second go around with Spot. Can you be a little more elaborate on your "snubber pulley"
    Could you use a chain tension devise such as a Singulator with a roller to do the same thing.
    I find it hard to believe that the belt is skipping that is a lot of movement for that to happen. But the belt ridding up then snapping back makes sense.

    Tim

  18. #18
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    I run a 39-22 on a Ventana El Comandante. My friend runs a 46-25 on the same frame.
    When I rode his bike I didnt get it to pop. Is it possible that the slightly larger approach angle and larger dia of the rear cog on the low pressure side is enough to overcome the mismatch? Any opinions??

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimT
    Velo Bike
    This is the 3rd gen of belt drive that I know of . A company called Dan-Ed had a belt drive bike/system in the mid 90's and Spot also played with belt drive in the late 90's. So this is the second go around with Spot. Can you be a little more elaborate on your "snubber pulley"
    Could you use a chain tension devise such as a Singulator with a roller to do the same thing.
    I find it hard to believe that the belt is skipping that is a lot of movement for that to happen. But the belt ridding up then snapping back makes sense.

    Tim
    I meant the 2nd generation of Gates. I have tried Pirelli, Goodyear, and some Taiwanese stuff. I even did some experiments with v-belts way back in the 70s, but the less said about that the better

    I don't think I took any photos of the snubber, but I took apart a Yess tensioner to make it. The idea is to allow just enough gap for normal belt height variation but to force anything else back down. It works but I don't recommend it because it is not fixing the fundamental problem.

    When the belt rides up the tension tries to bend the tooth back against the belt, which is why I suspect the teeth are getting ripped off. Not much could withstand that, and higher tension on the belt is going to make the damage worse.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by juscruzin
    I run a 39-22 on a Ventana El Comandante. My friend runs a 46-25 on the same frame.
    When I rode his bike I didnt get it to pop. Is it possible that the slightly larger approach angle and larger dia of the rear cog on the low pressure side is enough to overcome the mismatch? Any opinions??
    Could be. It's the same with chains, the more you can smooth out the polygon the better.
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  21. #21
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    Found some photos of experiment with tensioner and snubber:

    The first 2 photos are using a STS Tensioner. First it was used as a snubber with a gap. It did not work adequately. Then it was run as a straightforward tensioner, but it wasn't stiff enough.



    Next step was try to make a snubber with what was to hand. I dismantled a Yess tensioner and made up this snubber *** tensioner. Its position was not ideal and it interfered with the belt. However it worked.





    I have remembered what I did for the final part.

    I made a pulley mount from flat bar which sat the pulley at 7 o'clock and just proud of the belt. That worked with no problems, but I can't find any photo of it, possibly because I decided it was a dead end. The parts will be somewhere though - I wouldn't have chucked it out.

    I rode the bike round the local XC track without any klaakking with the Yess and my homemade version.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Thanks, Roger. It will be good to see you again... while I'm astride a bicycle, albeit a 1x8 (34t ring, 11-32 cassette).

    No, I will never singlespeed the Puff again. I was 48 y/o when I did that... and that was 8 years ago. While I don't think a singlespeed bike is a disadvantage in endurance events for the young, I do believe in really long endurance events ("ultra-endurance"), a SS hinders the older rider. I'll let individuals define "young" & "older." FWIW, I'm older @ 56, no doubt about that.

    No one should construe my comment above to mean I'm not a dedicated singlespeed rider. I love SS... but not for 100 miles plus 16,000'+ gain in a day. But that's just me.

    I don't know what Gates says the average life of the belt should be but I think my roommate said they claim 8,000 miles. In the case of my roommate's belt, it was 4 months and maybe 800 miles.

    See you in less than a week, Roger. Forecast is for 85 degrees and sunny. Perfect.

    --Sparty
    aka Davey Sprockett, King of the Wild Front Tire
    I rode my SS for the Brian Head Epic 100 back in 2006. It was pretty rough. I was 25 and i couldnt imagine pulling that off at 50. I always wanted to try it with gears to see how my times compared but they stopped doing the race. Maybe someday i'll roll up there to try that one.
    Mucho credit for doing it at 56.

    As for belt drive, not sold on it yet. I think it might work ok for spinners or for the average to slightly above average public, but i think i the torquey upper cat1 or pro needs a little more than some rubber.

  23. #23
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    So.........why all the fuss, just to be able to run a belt? These things you list here are not issues with a chain drive.

    I'm not being snarky, but I am just curious since you seem to have some desire to see a belt system work.

    To my mind, it's a lot of work for little gain, or no gain.

    I've ridden a belt drive bike and have seen others on rides that have had them. I've witnessed too many issues to be convinced this is anything but a design/idea for city/commuter rigs. I'm not seeing evidence that it solves any problems or is a better performer than a chain drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    I have built a number of belt drive bikes.

    My opinion is that belt popping (or klaakking as I call it ) is caused by a flexible chainstay, and extra tension will not cure it.

    One bike I built was pretty bad so I put it on rollers and got an observer to watch. What happens is when pressure is applied the chainstay flexes to one side. Now the rear axle is slightly out of parallel with the BB. As a result the belt teeth are not in line with the rear cog anymore and try to ride up. No amount of tension will solve that problem.

    There is a cure - place a snubber pulley at the 7 o'clock position at about 1mm from the belt. This will only act when the belt tries to ride up and keeps it down. However it is a bodge and not good practice, but it enables the bike to ride quietly. I suspect the belt would wear quickly, but I don't know because I dismantled that bike once I was satisfied the snubber worked.

    Other bikes I have done have had stiff chainstays and do not need much tension at all. They work without any klaakking.

    The reality is that this is the first generation of belt drives, and the second will probably come out with laterally stiff chainstays. Hopefully they will also drop the excessively complicated seatstay joint nonsense too.

    BTW the 39 tooth front ring is not sold in Europe because of unspecified problems - sounds like getting it to fit may be the problem

    Edit: I have been experimenting with belt drive for nearly 10 years now, and the current Gates system is the best so far.

    So basically I believe the problem is with the bike design causing the belt to be chewed up.
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  24. #24
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    no desire to venture there ever. chains are proven.

  25. #25
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    I'd love belt drives to work. In the winter months I go through more lube than a pornstar during sweeps.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    So.........why all the fuss, just to be able to run a belt? These things you list here are not issues with a chain drive.

    I'm not being snarky, but I am just curious since you seem to have some desire to see a belt system work.

    To my mind, it's a lot of work for little gain, or no gain.

    I've ridden a belt drive bike and have seen others on rides that have had them. I've witnessed too many issues to be convinced this is anything but a design/idea for city/commuter rigs. I'm not seeing evidence that it solves any problems or is a better performer than a chain drive.
    Because belts dont rust or clog up with mud and dust.
    My belt drive was the ulitmate set and forget. No cleaning, no lubing, no black greasy mess, and since putting a chain back on, I am reminded about this every time I come back from a wet or dusty ride.
    I really hope that someone sorts out the problems soon.

  27. #27
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    The silence is sublime

    It is proven technology.

    And they're lighter, cleaner, and on a properly designed bike, troublefree.

    Oh, and they don't rust...

    But as said, a chain is perfectly adequate. I just like experimenting and my ideal is to reduce the number of moving parts to a minimum. A chain has over 100 moving parts
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  28. #28
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    If you ride in dry conditions, a chain is great. Chains require more maintenance in wet damp areas, but it's still pretty good. A belt that does not need to be lubed or replaced all winter sounds like something I'd like. On a fixie, you have to tension the chain regularly, not so with a belt.

    Most frames were designed to work well with chains, thus the issues with belts. My last bike was set up fixie (with a chain!), and the combination of the tooth profile on the cog, chain & rear end flex caused the chain to climb on the rear cog, resulting a loud ping that could be heard in the entire riding group, regardless of how far behind they were. Changing the tooth profile helped, the ping now occurred at higher tension. As the chain wore ("stretched"), the problem got worse. No amount of chain/cog/chainring modifications would fix the problem caused primarily by flex.

  29. #29
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    Okay, but my chains don't make noise, (that I can hear from my saddle), and it is proven technology, that doesn't rust if you keep lube on the chain, (not that hard to do), they may be heavier, but are shown to be more efficient mechanically, work on most bikes, even if the design sucks, are more trouble free than belts, (if one considers the number of belt driven bikes versus the number of known issues, the percentages are far higher than they are for chains), so I guess I am not impressed.....yet.

    I have an open mind to belt driven bikes off road, but what I see now isn't all that trustworthy or trouble free. Oh, and I guess having a greasy chain doesn't bother me in the least. I just don't buy that as being an "advantage" for a belt, but I would concede that the perception of having a possibility of getting a grease stain may be enough for folks to see a belt as being something good.

    I'll be watching things develope, but as for the way it stands now, I don't see a belt as a viable off road option in comparison to a chain.

    I used to work on automobiles too, so a lot of what I see as problems with belts on bicycles is reflected in the auto industry as well. Curiously, some manufacturers are returning to timing chains now versus belts. I find that interesting as a side note. But at any rate, carry on, and I hope your belt drive bicycles give you miles of smiles. I just don't see that system as an advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    The silence is sublime

    It is proven technology.

    And they're lighter, cleaner, and on a properly designed bike, troublefree.

    Oh, and they don't rust...

    But as said, a chain is perfectly adequate. I just like experimenting and my ideal is to reduce the number of moving parts to a minimum. A chain has over 100 moving parts
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsdoable
    ...My last bike was set up fixie (with a chain!), and the combination of the tooth profile on the cog, chain & rear end flex caused the chain to climb on the rear cog, resulting a loud ping that could be heard in the entire riding group, regardless of how far behind they were...
    This is a problem that pops up quite frequently on fixie conversions where the original bike was designed for a derailleur. The chainstay is far too flexy. Often the owner doesn't have the problem until they have owned the bike a wee while and developed the necessary muscles

    It's really all about design for purpose. For belt drive to work it must have stiff chainstays. There's very few of the current bikes that have them.

    GT, you may think your bike is silent, but once you have ridden a properly set up belt drive, you will be distressed at how noisy your chain drive is

    (A really silent set up is a belt with a Sturmey-Archer hub gear - it's amazing how much more wildlife you see with a quiet bike)

    Edit: I think I would prefer a chain to a belt in a car. At least that way you get some warning when it's all about to go crunchy. A fully enclosed and lubricated chain is superior to a belt, but we don't enclose our chains in an oilbath on our bikes these days, and it would add even more weight. The belt drive removes 1/2 pound of unnecessary weight.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  31. #31
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    Velobike is right on how quite a belt drive is. The first ride in the woods I heard a squish squish sound I'm like WTF is that . Figured out it was my fork cycling.

    Tim

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    I use a chain and I don't ever hear my chain. Just the sound of the tires.

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    Sorry to say, but my heavy breathing seems to be the only thing I hear when I am out there! Don't think a belt drive is going to help me with that.

  34. #34
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    I have to agree with Velobike on some of these matters. For a Belt to function properly the frame needs to be super stiff and free of excessive lateral flex.

    I tried a belt drive on my Blacksheep Ti frame for 6 months only to change it recently to a chaindrive.

    The Belt was simply not suitable for my lightweight Ti frame. I miss its wisper quite, lubeless operation but it had to go in favour of the trusty chain...

    Apart from the teeth jumping (klacking), it functioned perfectly and alignment/setup was a breeze. The belt never derailed not matter how hard I pushed the cranks but it did slip constantly during these heavy spurts.

    I never experienced teeth breaking off but the slipping got worse and worse as though the belt was wearing some how within its short 700km lifespan. It got to the point that it was slipping even when I was seated and I was only using a 39/24 combo. ( roughly 46 gear inches ) With the aid of the Gates tensioning tool is was apparent that I had more than adequate tension on the belt, infact I could hardly turn my cranks in the end after adding more and more tension to try and stop the slipping. This of course was proving to be disfunctional to my hub and BB bearings.

    The Belt is silent when it works but under load I may as well take my pop corn machine out on the trails with me, it would be quiter LOL!

    For those who possess an ultra stiff frame I think the belt it a way cool addition to your rig, provided you can handle nonstop questions on the trails.
    "Be the Gear..."

  35. #35
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    I think for belt drive to reach critical mass in mountain bikes hub gears are going to have to take off (new 11 speed Alfine anyone?). Single speed riders are too small a demographic.

    The need for stiff chainstays is going to need a change in attitude to frame feel.

    I have always preferred a stiff frame and got my flex out of fatter tyres, so stiff chainstays are something I prefer. But a big change in rider expectations will be needed from those who treasure the feel of the flex of the stays on a steel bike. Many will not want to make the change because their chain does the job perfectly ok.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarth
    I'd love belt drives to work. In the winter months I go through more lube than a pornstar during sweeps.

    Can't wait to see that as part of Gates sales pitch.

    Think the belt is still to new for cycling and there are still some bugs to be worked out. Perhaps its the frame or tolerences of the cogs, I really don't know. Some have been flawless, while others no so much. I'd like to see more chainring and cog options for it to be viable for SS usage, never ming miltigeared right now. Plus for trails it would be nice to have more chainring clearance for rocks and logs.

  37. #37
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    With belt drive you won't ever get that greasy imprint of your chainring on the inside of your leg anymore, I'd probably miss that....

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    Absolutely!!!
    I ran a 39- 25 and it popped a bunch on really steep climbs, swapped out to a 46-28 and it never pops. I think the 46 provides more surface area with the belt and eliminates the problem.
    I weight 190 and seem to be really hard on my gear and the belt has stood the test of time.
    I have done a few 100 mile races so far and no problems what so ever.


    Quote Originally Posted by juscruzin
    I run a 39-22 on a Ventana El Comandante. My friend runs a 46-25 on the same frame.
    When I rode his bike I didnt get it to pop. Is it possible that the slightly larger approach angle and larger dia of the rear cog on the low pressure side is enough to overcome the mismatch? Any opinions??

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