Beating a dead horse: BD Dawes Deadeye versus comparable setups...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Beating a dead horse: BD Dawes Deadeye versus comparable setups...

    I'm sure this has been discussed at length in the Dawes Deadeye post a couple threads down, but I really want to get a feel of how it compares to other name brand manufacturers of 29er SS bikes.

    It's been killing me, I was 99.99% sure on purchasing a 2010 Redline Monocog 29er until I started to read about the Dawes Deadeye (and other BD bikes for that matter).

    I want a solid, reliable and economical first MTB SS 29er... with that being said...

    How is durability in comparison to say... a Monocog?

    Would the deadeye be strong enough for a 6'0" 235lbs person like myself?

    For the price, the Deadeye seems like the logical answer, but is there anything else I am missing? Does it sacrifice anything for that price? (I realize the components may not be top of the line, but neither is the MC.)

    Lastly, would spending an extra $50.00 for the Windsor 29.1 be a justified move for disc brakes and an alum frame?

    Thanks in advance guys!!

  2. #2
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    Just get the Monocog. You can actually ride it before purchase, and you've got a local bike shop that will help if your frame happens to break. Redline has lifetime warranty on the frames and you don't have to hassle with shipping and dealing with a faceless internet company.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by p nut
    Just get the Monocog. You can actually ride it before purchase, and you've got a local bike shop that will help if your frame happens to break. Redline has lifetime warranty on the frames and you don't have to hassle with shipping and dealing with a faceless internet company.
    So true.

    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." -- Benjamin Franklin

    I'm not saying the Deadeye or any other buy-before-you-try bike is low quality, but the advice & personal service (or lack thereof) certainly is. Personally, I like to do business with the guys at my local shop unless I can't get in the same ballpark pricewise AND I choose to hold myself completely responsible for potentially making a bad decision about my purchase (that is, whenever I don't feel like I need professional advice &/or service).

    You're here asking for advice now. I suggest you go to your LBS and ask there. I'll bet you'll find it worthwhile to become a customer, which at many shops is like becoming a family member.

    Unless there is a huge disparity in price. I expect to pay a bit more at my LBS, but I understand & accept the reasons for doing so.

    --Sparty
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    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

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    I was faced with a similar decision about a week ago...if you read the Nashbar Bike thread you will get filled in on what I finally decided. If it were me choosing between the Dawes(which I originally was gonna buy) and the Windsor 29.1, I would spend the extra and get the 29.1.

    Why?

    Because if you look closely at the headtube of the Windsor, and compare it to the Nashbar, you will begin to see a lot of similarities between the two frames. Yes, the Geo Specs say they are a bit different, but I would bet they are one in the same. It is no secret that the Nash is the Aluminum '08 version of the SE Stout.

    Better yet, if you can hold out....Nashbar just offered an extra 20% off last week bring the price of the Nash SS to $280. That is $318 delived....the price of the Dawes. Had I not found my deal....I would be riding a Nash today.

    Just check the site each day.....10% extra right now.

    Hope that helps.

  5. #5
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    I just picked up a Redline Monocog 29er and am very pleased with my purchase. I debated briefly purchasing a Dawes, however decided to go with a tried and true option, the Monocog. The Dawes is far too new for my liking and has not undergone the test of time. I read through the large Dawes post and could not find much, if any information on the durability of the bike. In purchasing the Monocog, I am confident it will hold up to the trails I ride and should anything happen, I will have the support of a LBS.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    So true.

    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." -- Benjamin Franklin

    I'm not saying the Deadeye or any other buy-before-you-try bike is low quality, but the advice & personal service (or lack thereof) certainly is. Personally, I like to do business with the guys at my local shop unless I can't get in the same ballpark pricewise AND I choose to hold myself completely responsible for potentially making a bad decision about my purchase (that is, whenever I don't feel like I need professional advice &/or service).

    You're here asking for advice now. I suggest you go to your LBS and ask there. I'll bet you'll find it worthwhile to become a customer, which at many shops is like becoming a family member.

    Unless there is a huge disparity in price. I expect to pay a bit more at my LBS, but I understand & accept the reasons for doing so.

    --Sparty
    Great point. Enough said!

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    I bought the Deadeye several months ago, put disc brakes on it ($80 total for '08 BB7s) and have been beating the snot out of it several days a week with no problems so far. This is by far my favorite bike I own and have owned. I've been on a bike of some sort for nearly 40 years. Simplicity in a bike is priceless. I've snapped bikes 5 times the price of the Dawes that were only half as fun to ride. As far as LBSs - we have 2 of them in town and they both try to talk you out of anything but what they have in stock (and those bikes are usually at least 2 years old). And our bike shops have crappy service - you take a bike in for a minor repair and wait 2 weeks until they get around to it or, worse yet (and this has happened to me), you get your bike back in a week with used parts on it (brake cables). I have learned to do ALL of my own wrenching (if I can do it, anyone can) out of neccessity and feel very comfortable buying "cheap" bikes and avoid dealing with the LBSs altogether.

  8. #8
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    The 29.1 a bd menioned above was compared in one my my previous threads and it looks exactly the same.
    SS Rigid =
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    There is no distraction. You only hear the sound of your breath and the crunch of the wheels across the dirt.

  9. #9
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    there are a few cities with a cycle spectrum. you can sit on a dawes there. and if you buy in store you get any warranty work done in store. and if you buy parts in store they'll put them on for you for free.

    http://cyclespectrum.com/storelocator/

    i have bought a couple things for my bike, but i put them on myself. i am a DIY kinda guy, though. i am 6'2" and 245lbs. i've only ridden my deadeye on a couple trails, but it feels extremely sturdy.
    it's fun to do bad things

  10. #10
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    Buy the on that you can swing a leg over and has a lifetime warranty . FWIW , carefully read BD's warranty return policy , having to pay shipping two ways on a warranty issue is unacceptable IMHO .

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    FWIW , carefully read BD's warranty return policy , having to pay shipping two ways on a warranty issue is unacceptable IMHO .
    that's not accurate

    from http://bikesdirect.com/warranty.html
    "All Our Bikes Are New
    With the Full Manufacturers' Warranty

    Please see the manufacturers' website for full warranty details"


    from http://www.dawescyclesusa.com/warranty.html
    "Who pays what
    Our products are such high quality we never see defects. In the rare event of a valid product defect we will pay for pickup/return shipping costs within the USA. Our goal is zero defects."
    it's fun to do bad things

  12. #12
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    Interesting

    I saw about five brands mentioned here
    Redline, SE, Nashbar, Dawes, Windsor

    Now I know that each is made by a factory which exactly the same QC -- can it be that anyone on these forums still is not aware of that? I would hope not

    All these bikes a high-grade and durable
    None is likely to ever have a valid warranty claim [From my experience less than 1 in 1000 at most]

    Any of these bikes would be just fine and all would be exactly the same in quality & durability.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    Interesting

    I saw about five brands mentioned here
    Redline, SE, Nashbar, Dawes, Windsor

    Now I know that each is made by a factory which exactly the same QC -- can it be that anyone on these forums still is not aware of that? I would hope not

    All these bikes a high-grade and durable
    None is likely to ever have a valid warranty claim [From my experience less than 1 in 1000 at most]

    Any of these bikes would be just fine and all would be exactly the same in quality & durability.

  14. #14
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    i spent the past few months researching & shopping all the "moderate" priced ss 29ers & even followed that other long-assed dawes deadeye thread. a couple months ago i was ready to order it from bikesdirect until i reread that thread & noticed sumthing. when the thread (& the bike) was new bikesdirect was posting & promoting like crazy. he wouldnt shut up. but soon as he & his shills whipped everybody into a buying frenzy, he stopped posting in that thread. its great that most of the deadeye buyers like their bikes but there were many valid complaints made about broken chain tensioners, warped rear disc brake mounts, bad hubs & headsets, shabby qc, etc & the bd guy never responded to any of those posts. it showed me that he & his company are kinda sheisty.

    i could tell you more about my talks with lying nashbar reps re their low-end ss 29er going up & down in price, every week they offer a different discount & who really makes it. not to mention my futile final attempts to catch 1 of those rock bottom monocog deals i kept hearing about & missing but that would be...beating the dead horse.

    anyway, even tho i kinda wanted the redline, i ended up recently buying an se stout from jensen for only 240 + shipping. i had already tested 1 at a local shop, se racing is reputable & been around for quite a while (i bot a pk ripper for my kid years ago) & figgered since all those bikes are pretty comparable there was just no way i could pass on that deal. now im eagerly awaiting delivery.

    good luck to anybody shopping these less expensive 29ers, it can get confusing if you think about it too much!
    Last edited by markaitch; 07-08-2010 at 06:32 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by markaitch
    i spent the past few months researching & shopping all the "moderate" priced ss 29ers & even followed that other long-assed dawes deadeye thread. a couple months ago i was ready to order it from bikesdirect until i reread that thread & noticed sumthing. when the thread (& the bike) was new bikesdirect was posting & promoting like crazy. he wouldnt shut up. but soon as he & his shills whipped everybody into a buying frenzy, he stopped posting in that thread. its great that most of the deadeye buyers like their bikes but there were many valid complaints made about broken chain tensioners, warped rear disc brake mounts, bad hubs & headsets, shabby qc, etc & the bd guy never responded to any of those posts. it showed me that he & his company are kinda sheisty.

    i could tell you more about my talks with lying nashbar reps re their low-end ss 29er going up & down in price, every week they offer a different discount & who really makes it. not to mention my futile final attempts to catch 1 of those rock bottom monocog deals i kept hearing about & missing but that would be...beating the dead horse.

    anyway, even tho i kinda wanted the redline, i ended up recently buying an se stout from jensen for only 240 + shipping. i had already tested 1 at a local shop, se racing is reputable & been around for quite a while (i bot a pk ripper for my kid years ago) & figgered since all those bikes are pretty comparable there was just no way i could pass on that deal. now im eagerly awaiting delivery.

    good luck to anybody shopping these less expensive 29ers, it can get confusing if you think about it too much!
    You will enjoy your SE - they are very nice quality
    I know as the factory Ideal also builds the Dawes Deadeye and Windsor Cliff 29.1 in addition to all Fujis & Kestrels plus lots of Motobecanes and other quality brands

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    You will enjoy your SE - they are very nice quality
    I know as the factory Ideal also builds the Dawes Deadeye and Windsor Cliff 29.1 in addition to all Fujis & Kestrels plus lots of Motobecanes and other quality brands

    Zing!

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    thanx for your kind wishes bikesdirect, i am very pleased with my decision.

    i have the comfort of knowing that with the se racing stout there is a well known, well respected company which has been around a long time, that i know i can get on the phone instantaneously & which will bend over backwards to help me if i ever do have a problem. the manufacturer of my bike is a real entity, not simply a name that has nothing to do with the original that is just slapped on bikes as part of an internet & ebay marketing scheme. i was actually able to talk to bike shop owners & bike mechanics that have extensive experience with the company that produces my bike & they raved about it. the company that makes my bike does not have tons of bad reviews & complaints about its refusal to honor frame warranties posted all over net.

    so yeah, i feel pretty good about my choice.

    tstess, like i said in my post it is great that you deadeye buyers like your bikes. i am happy for you, i hope you enjoy it for years. but for all your sakes i also hope your frame does not break & you dont have to deal with dawes usa, whose #1 tactic is to be absolutely unwilling to entertain any notion of a manufacturers defect, it is well known that they tell their poor customers it is impossible for one of their bikes to have a defect.

    btw tstess...isnt it kinda hard to ride your dawes deadeye with your nose shoved so far up the bd guys ass?

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=markaitchbtw tstess...isnt it kinda hard to ride your dawes deadeye with your nose shoved so far up the bd guys ass?[/QUOTE]

    Ouch! You seem like a very angry young man. May I suggest an activity to relieve some of that stress, say maybe biking? I wish nothing but the best for you (and your handfull of sour grapes). Keep fighting the good fight and telling yourself ( and your therapist) that you've outsmarted everyone else, got the best deal and the best price on the best bike ever made and everyone else are fools. Yes, you truely are the big winner here. Now go outside and play with your shiney new toy while momma makes you a toasted cheese sandwich! BTW, isn't it kinda hard to ride your SE with your head shoved so far up your own ass?

    THE stess (or Captain Fantastic)

  19. #19
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    I've built both a deadeye and a stout and they have more similarities than differences IMO. The hubs appear to be identical (even down to the mal-adjusted cones), the rims comparible, same brakes, bars, etc (from what I recall). They also weighed the same.

    I like SE from their heritage and think they're good bikes / company. I like my deadeye also. I ride it offroad 3x a week or so and ride it pretty hard. It might break someday but I think I've already got my $ worth. It was not a big investment.

    It seems to me that those with QC problems have had them rectified by BD pretty quickly and they were very accommodating, but I may have missed something.

    Edit: I can't deny the fact that the deadeye seems to have more QC issues than the stout though. I haven't seen any threads about disc tabs etc. on their models.

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