Anyone prefer tensioners to EBBs???- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,595

    Anyone prefer tensioners to EBBs???

    Don't slam me for this question, but I've never riden either. I'm thinking that my next bike will use the Rohloff Speedhub, and I'm wondering if I should use a chain tensioner or an EBB. I like to set thing and forget them (like seat height), and I'm wondering how the EBB will effect my position (which I don't like to mess with).

    Partly related question is why someone would build a custom bike with an EBB. Wouldn't that change everything regarding your fit as the EBB has to be moved around?

    Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,120
    Hey, haven't I seen you somewhere before?!?

    EBB vs. sliding dropouts -- each is a compromise. EBB might change pedaling position slightly, but sliding dropouts change wheel base by as much as an inch.

    If I had to guess, I'd suppose sliding dropouts are heavier, and uglier (although I salivate over the sliders on the Voodoo Dambala every time I see it). But both EBB & sliders are lighter, more aesthetically pleasing and quieter than a tensioner hanging off the back end.

    EBB or slider, your choice, but pass on the tensioner unless you're running full suspension.

    We need to hook up for a ride -- I'll PM you tonight.
    speedub.nate
    MTBR Hiatus UFN

  3. #3
    I speak for the trees
    Reputation: lorax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    42

    EBB don't change nuthin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    I'm wondering if I should use a chain tensioner or an EBB.

    Partly related question is why someone would build a custom bike with an EBB. Wouldn't that change everything regarding your fit as the EBB has to be moved around?
    I don't know about you, but the 1/4" inch (give or take) that the EBB will change the geometry doesn't matter a hill of beans on a mountain bike, especially a singlespeed. I spend a helluvalotta time standing on the pedals when I'm climbing and I'm off the seat a lot when I'm descending.

    Partly related to that answer is that a custom frame is just that - a custom frame. It fits well. Very well.

    I've got another ride with a tensioner on it. I don't know if it's better hubs on my EBB bike or if something is wrong with the tensioner (singleator), but I can definitely coast better/faster with the EBB. But the real problem is when I get on a technical or fast downhill and the chain pops off occasionally. Never happens on the EBB bike.

  4. #4
    rbtm member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    888
    If you aren't going to be changing cogs or the chain ring, then the only reason to make tension adjustments is to compensate for chain lengthening. I don't think the change in ebb position is going to be noticible over the life of a chain. The same could be said with sliding dropouts. Worst case is that you replace your chain a little sooner than you would have otherwise because the position has changed enough to notice.

    Personally, I like EBB for single speed because it makes swapping out cogs, something I do relativelly frequently, very easy. With a Rohloff I'd lean more toward sliding dropouts because adjustments would be much less frequent but would probably still choose an ebb because it's so clean.

    A tensioner is something you use because you have to, not something you choose if I had a choice. I'd do everything in my power to avoid using a tensioner.
    "The mouth of justice contemplates wisdom."

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Go•Dai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Partly related question is why someone would build a custom bike with an EBB. Wouldn't that change everything regarding your fit as the EBB has to be moved around?
    I asked one custom builder who had switched to sliding drops why he no longer designed bikes with EBBs, and that is the reason he gave. Might seem relatively insignificant to some (including me), but if you are designing a frame down to the angles (and BB height for that matter) an EBB would be something of a wrench in the works.

    Granted, sliding drops change the seatstay length. However, that does not mess with your pedaling mechanics (or whatever the proper terminology is. . .)

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Johnny Chicken Bones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,603
    As is always the case, each have their benefits.
    Tensioners are noisier, heavyish, ugly, and sorta fragile for being so simple.
    On the other hand, as pointed out- they make changing cogs super easy. Now, why change a cog it's a 1FukingGear after all. Well, 1FG isn't enough for all if you ride a wide variety of terrain. What's good on a Colorado climb might not do the Whiterim in a day or tow a trailer. Tensioners allow you to find the frame of choice and run it w/o custom frame work. Find the pricepoint cheapo aluminum frame and buy it, ride it till it's done and buy another. Go on Ebay and buy an old Schwinn Homegrown (sooo light) add a tensioner and still be lighter than the SS's of so called pure folk.
    EBB's- sorta like a tensioner they can be a bit of a problem, not huge but more than you'd think from such a simple and old concept. On my SS I think BB position is vital. I'm not worried aobut heigth (small cogs make for plenty of room) but BB drop makes a difference in bike handling. Somesay its one reason many 29er frames corner so well. You are sitting lower in the wheelbase.
    To me- some of the fun w/ SS is building a nearly perfect bike. None of us will ever build such a thing- they all have flaws of some sort but SS's can get close. What is perfect is up to you but the tensioner can detract from that clean, simple visual an EBB can offer.
    Uhh, I just read the drivel I wrote. Skip it all, buy either, go ride and stop reading these threads!!
    --------- __o
    ------- _`\<,_
    ------ (*)/ (*)
    ******************
    Running is for prey.

  7. #7
    Reviewer/Tester
    Reputation: Rainman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,176
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Don't slam me for this question, but I've never riden either. I'm thinking that my next bike will use the Rohloff Speedhub, and I'm wondering if I should use a chain tensioner or an EBB. I like to set thing and forget them (like seat height), and I'm wondering how the EBB will effect my position (which I don't like to mess with).

    Partly related question is why someone would build a custom bike with an EBB. Wouldn't that change everything regarding your fit as the EBB has to be moved around?

    Thanks for your help.
    I just finished building up a One Niner with Rohloff Speedhub.

    The EBB works perfectly well with the Rolly, easy to adjust, it's sort of set and forget..

    I have taken some time to get everything right on the build, but finally achieved that point yesterday after a rear brake caliper alignment.

    Now, it works perfectly. I figure that I won't have to change the EBB position for quite some time, so the geometry should stay pretty stable.

    Between rear end and EBB adjusters...having used both types, I currently prefer the EBB because its so easy to use, and looks neater.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  8. #8
    veinte nueve pulgadas
    Reputation: nzumbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    419

    None for me, thanks...

    I've always had a fundamental hangup with sliders or ebb's. You are adding moving, sliding bits and pieces what is supposed to be a solid piece of metal. To me, both introduce significant potential points of failure on a part of my bike where I don't want any potential weaknesses. I realize that there are a lot of folks out there with ebbs and sliders that love them and are having no problems at all. That's great. I'm just not sure that either are for me.

    I used to think that tensioners were crap. However, when I needed an SS bike for a duo endurance event, I didn't have a lot of chioces, so I grabbed a Soulcraft Convert that was on sale for $52. It is a sweet device. Sure it isn't as clean as an EBB. It is just as clean as sliders, IMO. I've been riding that way for two months now.

    Does it feel silly to have a custom frame with a tensioner on it? A little bit. But I can rest comfortably knowing that my frame is designed for me, well built, isn't over-engineered with sliders or ebbs and weighs as little as possible given the tubing selection. The bike was designed to be my geared rig, but it is turning out to be a wonderful SS.

    I was in the market for a dedicated SS 29er frame just a few weeks ago (with an EBB or sliders) to go with the geared frame, but after running the convert for awhile, I'm not sure I'll be going the dedicated SS route after all.

    And if the convert snaps off some day, I'm out a tensioner. That's easy to fix.

    One vote for the tensioner...just don't buy a cheap one...then you'll be pissed. Go with a convert or a rollenlager. Note: the rollenlager will not work with breezer drops.


  9. #9
    mcd
    mcd is offline
    uh, uh...oh, i forget
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,036
    I converted my geary to ss and used a tensioner til i found a "magic" gear ratio, i've experimented since then and have a couple of different ratios that work with no ebb and no tensioner, of course one is a bit too hard, and one a bit too easy...but it looks nice and clean!
    disclaimer: i (NO LONGER) live with my mom...

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,902
    3 eBB custom frames so far, all fit great. If the eBB (Bushnell) breaks (never happened), just replace it (cheaper than some tensioners). Solid BB shell is just as strong as the standard. No more sticks breaking off tensioners or derailleurs.

    One of the advantages of the Rohloff is you don't have to have a derailleur (or tensioner). With FS however, most frames need a spring loaded tensioner, but there are some exceptions. The Haro Sonic has the potential to be a tensionerless FS SS or Rohloff bike.

    Cheers,

    Tom

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    470

    Horizontal drops

    Just get horizontal drops w/ no tensioner/ sliders/ or EBB...

    this prevents the use of disc brakes, but a well setup good set of v's work fine for me in dry conditions... I usually don't ride in the rain so no prob.

    I found a CHEAP ($40 shipped) frame on eBay that had semihorizontal forward facing drops on it, and it has worked perfectly. No tension problems and no slippage (and I am using a QR axle.)

    If you are looking for simplicity/lightweight/clean look/ lack of moving parts/silent operation/ I would stay away from any of the above mentioned systems and just go with horizontal drops w/ vees

  12. #12
    On MTBR hiatus :(
    Reputation: Speedub.Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    9,120
    Quote Originally Posted by mp29k
    Just get horizontal drops
    Unfortunately, horizontal drops don't work so well with the Speedhub.
    speedub.nate
    MTBR Hiatus UFN

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Unfortunately, horizontal drops don't work so well with the Speedhub.
    I've sucsessfully run the bolt on (TS) and Quick release(CC) Speedhub on both horizontal track mounts and forward facing horizontal "drops" using the aftermarket torque arm. Remember that old bikes with the forward facing horizontal drops came with steel QR's that held just fine. I even put a modified chain tug on a QR axled Rohloff with track mounts, but it really was not necessary if you had an old steel shimano QR skewer. The bolt on version never slips. Discs are even possible if the frame has ISO mounts.

    I'd still go with the eBB, simple clean reliable setup & flat repair.

  14. #14
    Sofa King We Todd Did
    Reputation: SpinWheelz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,262
    My basic principle for a lot of things I do or own is 'the fewer moving parts, the better'. On my ride, I have horizontal dropouts, so I use two chaintugs (I know I only need one - I'm a sucker for symmetry) and a bolt-on skewer. Tension one way, tighten another way, done. Having never dealt with EBBs on a first-hand basis, they seem a tad cumbersome with a lot of moving parts, it seems. Rotating the EBB is one thing, but I think there are so some EBBs where the bottom bracket shell uses a pinchbolt to lock the EBB in place. Again, more moving parts.

    I guess that puts me in the tensioner camp.

  15. #15
    The devil is an angel too
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,330
    Quote Originally Posted by mp29k
    Just get horizontal drops w/ no tensioner/ sliders/ or EBB...

    this prevents the use of disc brakes, but a well setup good set of v's work fine for me in dry conditions... I usually don't ride in the rain so no prob.
    Really? then somebody better tell those morons at Bianchi that you can't use discs with horizontal drops...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    573

    I have 3 types

    Old school forward facing semi-horizontal + v-brakes, surly-style track ends with discs and EBB with discs.

    I have to say the EBB is probably the best choice, although I'd love to try sliding dropouts ala GroundUp. Not having to fiddle with the brakes is great, plus removing the wheel is a lot easier.

    Like has been said this is mountain biking, you're always moving around or you're not riding hard enough, so the fact that the crank axle position changes a bit is hard to feel. Plus if you change gears too often you might as well get a geared bike.

    Lastly there is not a lot of torque that can be applied on the EBB in normal conditions, mostly it's the rider's weight and the lever arm is quite small. That's why even greased like mobster's hair it doesn't require much tightening to stay put.

    I say EBB's are a decent and practical solution. A tensioner: no way, it IMO takes a lot of the beauty away.

    Maurice

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pitmang1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    218
    I have used Free Agent chain tugs on my bikes for about six years and would never use anything else. I ride my SS for everything form climbing steeps to dropping ledges to flat. I'm scared to used sliding dropouts 'cause the ones that are put on single speeds are pretty weak looking and I'm sure I'll snap them out, causing potentially fatal (for the frame) damage. As for EBBs, learn how to slide your wheel into some horizontal dropouts. I learned how to do that when I was a little kid on a 16 Inch bike. One of the main reasons people cite for riding a singlespeed is the simplicity and the idea of LOW-TECH. Seems like EBB's are making your bikes a little more complicated, what's next; 10 speeds? Anyway, choose what you want, I know what I like, but don't really care what you like.
    Last edited by pitmang1; 10-06-2005 at 03:40 PM.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.