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  1. #1
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    Any ideas on these hubs?

    I need the forum's help identifying these beautiful hubs...120mm rear, threaded for freewheel or single, 36 hole, super-thick angled flanges, very smooth cartridge bearings, spacer and nuts machined from one piece, aluminum axles, no markings...Any ideas on these hubs?-dsc_0002.jpg

    Any ideas on these hubs?-dsc_0001.jpg

  2. #2
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    120mm... Track frame size... I think you might have better luck on road bike review,

  3. #3
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    I will try the road forum, thanks...thought that they would work with early 5-speed mountain frames so threw them up here. Also, there are no smaller lock ring threads to accommodate a track cog, so yes, single speed or bmx or 5/narrow 6 speed...thanks.

  4. #4
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    Exactly where did you find those?

    They look VERY familiar


    Magura

  5. #5
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    Locally in Santa Barbara...do we know one another?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    Locally in Santa Barbara...do we know one another?
    No, I don't think we know each other, but those hubs looks like some I made ages ago.

    I was asking where you found them, as I find it strange they should pop up on the other side of the planet.

    If they are indeed the ones I made back then, one of the nuts on the rear has been replaced.


    Magura

  7. #7
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    Now this is getting interesting! Yes, I thought that the drive-side lock nut must not be original, as it was a steel piece and not integral with the spacer. When I removed the axle on the front hub, it had a distinctly hand-made quality (which I consider good) and did not appear factory. Please, tell the story: why, when, where and how many. I bought them from a guy who simply was selling various bike parts, knew nothing about them, and had a BMX leaning. I just thought the were beautiful and so I had to have them. Do tell...

  8. #8
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    First let's see if we can clear up if they are some of my old stuff

    Could you do me a favor, and read what is written on the seals of the bearings ?

    If they are my work, they use metric bearings.


    Magura

  9. #9
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    Front and rear- Nachi 6000NSL Japan

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    Front and rear- Nachi 6000NSL Japan
    Ok, back then I used Nachi and SKF bearings, so this points in the right direction of them being some of my old stuff

    Can't help to think it's pretty funny that they show up that far from home.

    They were made like 18 years ago, back when I was an apprentice (toolmaker in die casting).

    There is only the set you have.

    Why: Cause I was a poor apprentice, but loved biking.

    Where: Denmark, Lystrup.


    They were rather nice as I recall them. The lacing was a bit awkward, as the flanges were made as wide as possible, while allowing DT competition spokes to get in with a bit of fiddling.

    The wide flanges are more or less a fingerprint you see on any of the hubs I have made through the years. I like the way they make the spokes seat, but it only works with the 2mm DT spokes.


    Magura

  11. #11
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    This is how the 2011 hubs of mine looks.

    Now, 18 years later, they're sporting carbon fiber axles, titanium spacers, and somewhat bigger flanges.



    Magura

  12. #12
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    Oh, and before the usual circus starts, no I don't make stuff like this for sale.

    The ones you have, are just a step on the way of development.

    None of the stuff I make, are made in quantities bigger than 1.
    I make those things for my own amusement, and that's it.


    Magura

  13. #13
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    So very beautiful!!! What are the chances that we connect like this, and that you see what I posted? I love it! No circus here, just appreciation...I would like to pass on the hubs that I have, so in case you know anyone who would like to use them, please let me know. At the very least, I might ask if you could make a replacement lock nut for the drive side rear....wow, I am amazed and impressed. More pics of your creations would be appreciated by all, I am sure. I used to hand-build racing recumbent frames, and am now doing steel frames for a hobby, vintage part restoration for business.

  14. #14
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    This is sure funny

    The statement regarding the "circus" was not aimed at you, but rather the usual crowd that usually accuse me of trying to sell stuff and being a manufacturer, no worries.

    I'll get back to this tomorrow, having a drink and a game of blackjack with the Mrs. now.


    Magura

  15. #15
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    First off, you guys have an awesome story brewing here!
    Secondly, not to start the circus, but it's apparent you're not trying to sell stuff Mr. Magura; what I'm saying is that I'd GLADLY pay you to make hubs for me. I'd rather find time to vacation near you to learn from you, but I don't think we're anywhere near each other. In any case, beautiful work man!

  16. #16
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    Great story. And some fantastic workmanship, Mr.Magura.

  17. #17
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    I don't have much to add here, except to say that this is perhaps the coolest thread EVER! The hubset is very nice, too.

    Mr.Mag, out of curiosity, what was the intended purpose for the hubs when you decided to make them, back in the mid-90s? SS mountain bike with narrow rear spacing? Something else entirely?

    -ron

  18. #18
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    Cool stuff!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    First off, you guys have an awesome story brewing here!
    Secondly, not to start the circus, but it's apparent you're not trying to sell stuff Mr. Magura; what I'm saying is that I'd GLADLY pay you to make hubs for me. I'd rather find time to vacation near you to learn from you, but I don't think we're anywhere near each other. In any case, beautiful work man!
    Feel free to drop by for a few days. It's not all that far, like 9 hours flight or so.


    Magura

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by surreal View Post
    I don't have much to add here, except to say that this is perhaps the coolest thread EVER! The hubset is very nice, too.

    Mr.Mag, out of curiosity, what was the intended purpose for the hubs when you decided to make them, back in the mid-90s? SS mountain bike with narrow rear spacing? Something else entirely?

    -ron

    Back then I had a track bike I used as a road bike for a while.
    As I recall, it was sporting a screw on cassette.

    What puzzles me a bit though, is how they have ended up where they are.....
    I tried if I could recall whom I ended up giving/selling them to (can't even remember if they were sold, or handed over to somebody in need), but it seems to be too long ago for that sort of details.


    Magura

    EDIT:

    It just dawned on me, that they were made to test the hydraulic rear der. I was working on back then.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    More pics of your creations would be appreciated by all, I am sure. I used to hand-build racing recumbent frames, and am now doing steel frames for a hobby, vintage part restoration for business.
    Some pics of some of the latest stuff.


    Magura

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    Thanks again for the history...I would love to see pictures of the hydraulic derailleur. Your projects with carbon and kevlar are beautiful and intriguing...hope the brake parts work well for you. Seems that they should.

    I bought the hubs from a stranger who had them listed in the local Craigslist classified ads. He got them in a large jumble of parts from someone else whose name he does not know. How they travelled overseas is unknown...if you could just remember who got them from you. Regardless, they are beautiful, spin flawlessly and deserve to be ridden. Unfortunately I have no real project for them, and hope to pass them on to a good home. Tell me if you want them back!

    My current thinking on derailleurs is: push-button electric shifting, stem-mounted servos and cable actuated shifting. Would retro-fit any bike with electronic shifting, servos pre-programmed for various manufacturer's cable pull requirements.

  24. #24
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    I have no pics of the hydraulic derailleur, as the bike it ended up on, was stolen.
    The thief must have gotten a pretty bad surprise, as selling that back then, would have been close to impossible, without getting caught.

    If I go out on a limb, my wildest guess would be that the hubs have gone through some from the Latvian national track racing team, as I spent some time there in the years after the hubs were made.
    That would explain how they got this far from home at least. I can't think of any other possibility.
    It is somewhat hard to get that story confirmed though, as I have not seen those guys for like 10 years.

    The way to go for derailleurs today is computer controlled servos directly on the derailleur, and push buttons, if you ask me.
    I recently bought a couple of micro computers to have a go at that, but have been preoccupied with other stuff lately.
    I have a new carbon frame in the making as well, plus the fact that I happen to have a company to run, so time is a bit scarce sometimes.

    Magura

  25. #25
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    Here is a link to a thread that has some in depth information about the carbon brakes.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/ho...nk-702878.html

    ....and yes, they work rather well. I have been so happy about them, that I consider making another one.

    Magura

  26. #26
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    Unbelievable!

    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    I will try the road forum, thanks...thought that they would work with early 5-speed mountain frames so threw them up here. Also, there are no smaller lock ring threads to accommodate a track cog, so yes, single speed or bmx or 5/narrow 6 speed...thanks.
    Wow, I was so wrong. Who would have thought Mr.Magura was the originator of these beauties. And you got your answer so fast!

    Great story. Mr.Magura's creations are one of a kind.

  27. #27
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    Fantastic! I will read the thread. I like the story about the Latvian track team. If you ever have the time (!) to track those guys down and ask them, it might be interesting to see if it goes anywhere.
    If you would like any input on your carbon frame fabrication, feel free to ask. I suspect that you know all that you need to, but I did build 8 carbon recumbent frames using carbon tubing, vacuum bagged carbon and kevlar, and urethane foam. Craig Calfee at Calfee Designs showed me his joining method on my first prototype, and I developed it further from there, making carbon/kevlar and foam composite joints that ended up looking quite nice and being very strong and light. Here are some pics, although I know that recumbents are out of place on this forum.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Any ideas on these hubs?-117-1751_img.jpg  

    Any ideas on these hubs?-117-1755_img.jpg  

    Any ideas on these hubs?-116-1653_img.jpg  

    Any ideas on these hubs?-116-1666_img.jpg  


  28. #28
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    Those are real good looking frames.

    I would love to hear more about your methods.

    Drop me a PM if you care to share some technology.


    Magura

  29. #29
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    Sent you a PM about carbon frame stuff- what little I know, I share. Any interest in making a replacement lock nut or nut/spacer for those hubs to replace the steel piece? That is the only one that has a separate spacer, as the others have the spacers integrated with the nut. Was that how you made it originally? Of course, I could get something made locally, but I would prefer something from you. Now here I am, asking you to do something for me Sorry, and thanks again for everything.

  30. #30
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    All the spacer/nuts were sure the same.

    If I still have the tap for cutting the thread, we can sure work something out.

    Do you have anything to measure the thread with? To be honest, I can't recall the type of thread in question, and back then I had a bad tendency to use whatever thread I had the tap and die set for.

    It could be M10x1.


    Magura

  31. #31
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    Nooooooo! Don't do it through PM, do it in a thread so the rest of us can follow along and maybe pick up some tricks ourselves!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    The way to go for derailleurs today is computer controlled servos directly on the derailleur, and push buttons, if you ask me.
    I recently bought a couple of micro computers to have a go at that, but have been preoccupied with other stuff lately.
    I have a new carbon frame in the making as well, plus the fact that I happen to have a company to run, so time is a bit scarce sometimes.

    Magura
    If you don't mind me going off topic a little, what is the motivation behind electric derailleurs?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Feel free to drop by for a few days. It's not all that far, like 9 hours flight or so.


    Magura
    Haha on a college student's budget, I may have to take a raincheck on that idea. But if I could I definitely would.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Nooooooo! Don't do it through PM, do it in a thread so the rest of us can follow along and maybe pick up some tricks ourselves!
    You got the name and the number, so to speak, if the need should ever arise



    Magura

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    If you don't mind me going off topic a little, what is the motivation behind electric derailleurs?
    You mean besides being lighter, faster, having no cable issues, and so on?

    Well, besides that, I can only think of that one derailleur would do anything from 2 to 11 speed cassettes.

    On a second thought, I like the idea of just pushing a button as well.

    Getting rid of cables would be a nice feature as well, come to think of it. I realize I get wires in exchange, but those will be thin and easy to get out of harms way.

    Off the top of my head, I can't come up with other benefits


    Magura

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Haha on a college student's budget, I may have to take a raincheck on that idea. But if I could I definitely would.
    Keep the offer in mind.

    I guess you're not planning on spending the rest of your life as a college student ?



    Magura

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    ...Can't help to think it's pretty funny that they show up that far from home....
    When Prince Henry's sailors made it to Goa, India they were shocked to find all sorts of Northern European goods available in the markets, back in the early 1400's. Trade routes are everywhere!

  38. #38
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    Loving this thread.
    Maybe the full tale of travel will come out over time. Makes me think of a message in a bottle being picked up after many years of floating about.
    Some stunning work Mr Magura.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    You mean besides being lighter, faster, having no cable issues, and so on?
    Where do the weight savings come from? I figured with the added battery and servo weight, it would be a wash.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Where do the weight savings come from? I figured with the added battery and servo weight, it would be a wash.
    If you add up the weight of a full outer and inner cable, plus the shifter, and subtract a 15g LiPo cell, a 15g computer, a 10g button, some 20g of wires, a servo that essentially does not add much to the weight of the derailleur, as it will be part of the load bearing construction, you will end up with a weight saving.

    The gear cable alone is like 60g (inner + outer + fittings).
    The shifter is another 125g average (guessing here, I just know that a XT shifter is close to 130g).

    The way Shimano have done it, is not all that smart, as they require a lot of power, thus a big battery. They have essentially just mounted a servo on the old style derailleur of theirs.
    Not smart in my opinion, as servo control opens up for linear motion control.

    So they ended up with a clumsy cling-on instead of an elegant, light and fast solution.


    Magura

  41. #41
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    Personally, I liked my idea of push-button shifting actuating stem-mounted servos that pulled traditional cables...not so much to be the latest or greatest, but because I am committed to older bike frames and parts, and like to be able to retro-fit to modernize. Keep the derailleurs you like, run traditional cables, have crisp and measured shifts. Probably dumb, but ce la vie.
    Related but different, anyone try the TRP Parabox cable/hydraulic brake system? Keep your favorite levers running cables into stem-mounted master cylinder, hydraulic lines out to discs...they work well and are pretty nicely made systems. My2c

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    Personally, I liked my idea of push-button shifting actuating stem-mounted servos that pulled traditional cables...not so much to be the latest or greatest, but because I am committed to older bike frames and parts, and like to be able to retro-fit to modernize. Keep the derailleurs you like, run traditional cables, have crisp and measured shifts. Probably dumb, but ce la vie.
    Related but different, anyone try the TRP Parabox cable/hydraulic brake system? Keep your favorite levers running cables into stem-mounted master cylinder, hydraulic lines out to discs...they work well and are pretty nicely made systems. My2c
    I made a Parabox lookalike some 20 years ago, actually that was the beginning of the hydraulic derailleur project back then.

    Today I see little point in all that, it would have to be due to sentiments if done like that now.
    I however also have some real old bikes around, so whom am I to say so


    Magura

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Keep the offer in mind.

    I guess you're not planning on spending the rest of your life as a college student ?



    Magura
    Indeed not sir! My hopes and dreams are to complete a Mechanical or Human-Centered Design Engineering degree at my college, then transition into either aerospace or computing project management. I've seriously considered bicycle/component design, but as you've shown in the brake forum, mainstream manufacturers are far behind the curve of what is technologically possible. If you ever get out to the west coast of the US again, soon, I'll make a trip out of it!

  44. #44
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    Mr.Magura- the replacement steel lock nut on the rear hub is in fact 10mmx1.0. Here are some other specs: the non-drive side rear spacer/nut is 14.4mm, the drive side is 20.5mm combined, with the aluminum spacer at roughly 12.16mm and the steel lock nut at 8.34mm. The rear axle measures 134.78mm with 16.5mm of threads on the drive side. Measured from the bearing inner race faces, the axle measures 21.45mm/26.5mm, non-drive and drive side. Unlike the other spacer/nuts on the hubs which are threaded their full lengths, it appears that the drive side (with its shorter threads) indeed had a separate spacer and nut...any chance that you made an aluminum nut that was lost or damaged, and that the remaining, separate spacer is original? Thanks.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Indeed not sir! My hopes and dreams are to complete a Mechanical or Human-Centered Design Engineering degree at my college, then transition into either aerospace or computing project management. I've seriously considered bicycle/component design, but as you've shown in the brake forum, mainstream manufacturers are far behind the curve of what is technologically possible. If you ever get out to the west coast of the US again, soon, I'll make a trip out of it!
    I'll keep that in mind. I have a couple of friends in San Francisco, whom I'm planning on paying a visit.


    Magura

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    Mr.Magura- the replacement steel lock nut on the rear hub is in fact 10mmx1.0. Here are some other specs: the non-drive side rear spacer/nut is 14.4mm, the drive side is 20.5mm combined, with the aluminum spacer at roughly 12.16mm and the steel lock nut at 8.34mm. The rear axle measures 134.78mm with 16.5mm of threads on the drive side. Measured from the bearing inner race faces, the axle measures 21.45mm/26.5mm, non-drive and drive side. Unlike the other spacer/nuts on the hubs which are threaded their full lengths, it appears that the drive side (with its shorter threads) indeed had a separate spacer and nut...any chance that you made an aluminum nut that was lost or damaged, and that the remaining, separate spacer is original? Thanks.
    I'll take a look later this evening, if I have a suitable piece of material laying around.

    I sure have the tap, as I recall using it recently for a gear dropout.


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    I'll take a look later this evening, if I have a suitable piece of material laying around.

    I sure have the tap, as I recall using it recently for a gear dropout.


    Magura
    Thanks in advance! If you come to California, you can drop down to Santa Barbara, or I could meet you at Esalen in Big Sur....regardless, just put the new part in your luggage, although I couldn't afford your airfare as shipping expense.

  48. #48
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    Considering your background, could you make a drawing of the nut/spacer, stating the measurements of importance?


    Magura

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    I'll keep that in mind. I have a couple of friends in San Francisco, whom I'm planning on paying a visit.


    Magura
    Fantastic! If you do, you should also bring a handbuilt 120mm spaced rear hub, fixed/fixed threading, with 28mm center-to-left / 28mm center-to-right 62mm diameter flanges, 32 holes, just for fun.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Considering your background, could you make a drawing of the nut/spacer, stating the measurements of importance?


    Magura
    DWG or DXF?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    DWG or DXF?
    Paper?
    JPG?




    Magura

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Fantastic! If you do, you should also bring a handbuilt 120mm spaced rear hub, fixed/fixed threading, with 28mm center-to-left / 28mm center-to-right 62mm diameter flanges, 32 holes, just for fun.
    That's a pretty specific request?


    Magura

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    That's a pretty specific request?


    Magura
    Haha yep, after seeing your very old work at the beginning of this thread, I can only imagine what you'd be able to pull out of your box of tricks for a seemingly standard rear track hub.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Haha yep, after seeing your very old work at the beginning of this thread, I can only imagine what you'd be able to pull out of your box of tricks for a seemingly standard rear track hub.
    Something like that today, I think I would want like this:

    Carbon fiber axles with multi wall nano tube reinforcement
    Carbon hub shell
    Mix of carbon and aluminum flanges.
    Oil bath lubrication

    Effectively that would be specs. close to the new hubs I posted a pic of in this thread, counting out the carbon flanges.

    It could be kinda fun, but to be honest, I think nobody would be willing to pay for something like that.

    I don't know if you would agree on the way it should be done, but I'm fairly sure you will agree that it simply would cost too much to make.


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Something like that today, I think I would want like this:

    Carbon fiber axles with multi wall nano tube reinforcement
    Carbon hub shell
    Mix of carbon and aluminum flanges.
    Oil bath lubrication

    Effectively that would be specs. close to the new hubs I posted a pic of in this thread, counting out the carbon flanges.

    It could be kinda fun, but to be honest, I think nobody would be willing to pay for something like that.

    I don't know if you would agree on the way it should be done, but I'm fairly sure you will agree that it simply would cost too much to make.


    Magura
    Oh definitely, and that is certainly a lot more tech than I'm looking for. I'm interested in, by your standards, something far more basic. Just 6016 machined aluminum hub shell, standard hollow 10x1 axle, sealed cartridge bearings. I just love the angled flanges you used on the OP's hubset, they're fantastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Oh definitely, and that is certainly a lot more tech than I'm looking for. I'm interested in, by your standards, something far more basic. Just 6016 machined aluminum hub shell, standard hollow 10x1 axle, sealed cartridge bearings. I just love the angled flanges you used on the OP's hubset, they're fantastic.
    Well, if you should go ask somebody around there to make something like that, 6061 is pretty outdated.

    Top of the range today, is either Certal or Alumec. Both sporting much better properties, all the way through the material. Standard aluminum is hard and strong on the outer perimeter, and gets softer and weaker the closer you get to the center of the piece, due to the age hardening process.
    The two types mentioned above, does not suffer those unfortunate properties.


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Well, if you should go ask somebody around there to make something like that, 6061 is pretty outdated.

    Top of the range today, is either Certal or Alumec. Both sporting much better properties, all the way through the material. Standard aluminum is hard and strong on the outer perimeter, and gets softer and weaker the closer you get to the center of the piece, due to the age hardening process.
    The two types mentioned above, does not suffer those unfortunate properties.


    Magura
    What would you go with for such a project? Yes 6061 is outdated, it was just what I had on the top of my head. I'm seeing Alumec 79, 89, 99, etc...so if you were interested in undertaking such a project, what alloy would you specify?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    What would you go with for such a project? Yes 6061 is outdated, it was just what I had on the top of my head. I'm seeing Alumec 79, 89, 99, etc...so if you were interested in undertaking such a project, what alloy would you specify?
    Alumec 89 is what I usually use. The Alumec 100 is theoretically stronger, but at the cost of being prone to kerf crack issues, like scratches and the like.

    Certal is very alike the Alumec 89, and may be both cheaper and easier for you to get your hands on.


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Alumec 89 is what I usually use. The Alumec 100 is theoretically stronger, but at the cost of being prone to kerf crack issues, like scratches and the like.

    Certal is very alike the Alumec 89, and may be both cheaper and easier for you to get your hands on.


    Magura
    Is Alumec 100's strength rating but propensity to kerf crack issues a result of the differing hardening processes used in the various alloys, or the composition of the alloy itself? In any case, I don't have any distributor connections, so tracking down Certal is as difficult for me as finding an F-16 carbon rotor.
    If YOU were to make such a piece, say out of Alumec 89, what would be your end material cost?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Is Alumec 100's strength rating but propensity to kerf crack issues a result of the differing hardening processes used in the various alloys, or the composition of the alloy itself? In any case, I don't have any distributor connections, so tracking down Certal is as difficult for me as finding an F-16 carbon rotor.
    If YOU were to make such a piece, say out of Alumec 89, what would be your end material cost?
    The hardening process makes the difference. As I recall it, the alloy is more or less the same.

    If I had the material on the shelf, some 40-50$ (rough estimate), if not, around 120$.

    When you just go buy a small piece of specialty material, which is already expensive pr. kilogram, you will face a cutting fee, a minor order fee, and in most cases even a fee for having them cut it off a full length of material (a so called breaking fee directly translated).

    I am fairly sure Uddeholm will sell you a small piece, just expect the cost to end up on the wrong side of 120$ plus shipping.


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    The hardening process makes the difference. As I recall it, the alloy is more or less the same.

    If I had the material on the shelf, some 40-50$ (rough estimate), if not, around 120$.

    When you just go buy a small piece of specialty material, which is already expensive pr. kilogram, you will face a cutting fee, a minor order fee, and in most cases even a fee for having them cut it off a full length of material (a so called breaking fee directly translated).

    I am fairly sure Uddeholm will sell you a small piece, just expect the cost to end up on the wrong side of 120$ plus shipping.


    Magura
    Hardening process as I thought, which figures.
    As for cost of specialty material, that's exactly what I've seen happen with my friends who work on mechanical engineering lab projects at my college, distributors almost always take the arm and the leg, even with educational institutions. But hey, that's how they maintain their profit margins.
    Oof, ($120+ shipping) + (my limited skill with tooling) = one piece of metal better used in more capable hands. Which brings me back to my idea of working up a simple spec sheet for a hub, putting it in your hands, and reimbursing you for materials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Hardening process as I thought, which figures.
    As for cost of specialty material, that's exactly what I've seen happen with my friends who work on mechanical engineering lab projects at my college, distributors almost always take the arm and the leg, even with educational institutions. But hey, that's how they maintain their profit margins.
    To be honest, I don't think it's a ripoff, in fact they probably barely brake even at that cost.
    Selling that small quantities, is pretty much just customer service.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Oof, ($120+ shipping) + (my limited skill with tooling) = one piece of metal better used in more capable hands. Which brings me back to my idea of working up a simple spec sheet for a hub, putting it in your hands, and reimbursing you for materials.
    That is very funny....
    Now what's your real plan?


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    To be honest, I don't think it's a ripoff, in fact they probably barely brake even at that cost.
    Selling that small quantities, is pretty much just customer service.



    That is very funny....
    Now what's your real plan?


    Magura
    I'll definitely agree that the small quantities are disadvantageous for most companies, so yeah, it's definitely down to customer service. In fact, I know our departments have "don't buy from" lists based on past experience in exactly that area. I can also see that in most cases, such deals may not net the suppliers much money, but then again associates of mine have never gotten prices anywhere close to wholesale cost on small quantities of specialty alloys; as with every business I've seen, bulk discounts prevail.

    My real plan? Ha, you've found my secret! I guess I'm hoping that at some point between now and when you're next in San Francisco, you have an itch to build a simple track hub, and that by some stroke of insanity, you bring it with you on a far-flung journey to the United States, where I give it a loving home, while giving you ample reimbursement, in whatever forms I can.

    More realistically though, I'm gonna keep on following the progress in the brake forum and trying to absorb as much of your knowledge and experience as possible!
    Oh yeah, good morning! Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post

    More realistically though, I'm gonna keep on following the progress in the brake forum and trying to absorb as much of your knowledge and experience as possible!
    Oh yeah, good morning! Lol
    Well goodnight then to you

    Let me know if you need any help getting your hub project up to speed.
    Feel free to PM me with any questions you may have.


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    DWG or DXF?
    Some 3D printing later

    Now all I need is your addy.


    Magura

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    Missing link

    M, you are amazing, as has been this whole interaction. Thank you.

    My address has been sent off-forum, for security reasons

    Will post pics of the finished product...now, do the hubs go on the '72 Paramount or do I build a frame around them....probably the latter. Have some nice, 3-point 3Rensho lugs that would make a pretty, faux-period-correct bike.

    Any recommend on spokes?

    Indebted.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    M, you are amazing, as has been this whole interaction. Thank you.

    My address has been sent off-forum, for security reasons

    Will post pics of the finished product...now, do the hubs go on the '72 Paramount or do I build a frame around them....probably the latter. Have some nice, 3-point 3Rensho lugs that would make a pretty, faux-period-correct bike.

    Any recommend on spokes?

    Indebted.
    Yeah better keep your details off-forum. Can't have women throwing themselves at you

    The '72 frame is a bit old for this to fit in, but I like your idea of building a time period correct frame.

    Back then I exclusively used DT Champion 2.0mm spokes (hmm, in fact I still do).
    The hubs are made to fit DT spoke heads, so you have a lot to choose from, if plain gauge spokes are not your cup of tea.

    Magura

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    It left with the mail today.

    It ought to reach you sometime in the beginning of next week.


    Magura

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    Thanks M

    Do you have a favorite brand of rim these days, or did you when you made the hubs? May as well take this all of the way!

    K

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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    Thanks M

    Do you have a favorite brand of rim these days, or did you when you made the hubs? May as well take this all of the way!

    K
    All my road wheels back then, were laced to Rigida DP 18 rims.

    Makes for a super sturdy and stiff wheel.


    Magura

    EDIT: .....and these DP 18 rims were very cheap back then, which sure was needed at the time. Today I don't know how much they are, but I think they are still considered a low end rim.
    I kept on using those rims, also after cost became less of an object, cause I had gotten used to those super stiff wheels.

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    Thanks M, will research the availability of those.

    On another note: are we all missing the proverbial boat by not developing a frame-mounted internal-geared transmission for bikes? I know there have been some attempts historically, recently on some downhill machines, but they use existing parts and are a bit on the Frankenstein side of things. Something akin to a Rolhoff, but much lighter (carbon, Ti, etc.), preferably integral with a quality bb. The reduction in unsprung weight (for suspended bikes), rotating mass, risk of damage, etc. not to mention cleanliness...after your other projects, of course

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlcycle View Post
    Thanks M, will research the availability of those.

    On another note: are we all missing the proverbial boat by not developing a frame-mounted internal-geared transmission for bikes? I know there have been some attempts historically, recently on some downhill machines, but they use existing parts and are a bit on the Frankenstein side of things. Something akin to a Rolhoff, but much lighter (carbon, Ti, etc.), preferably integral with a quality bb. The reduction in unsprung weight (for suspended bikes), rotating mass, risk of damage, etc. not to mention cleanliness...after your other projects, of course
    I belive the DP 18 rims, are also sold under the brand name "Weinmann", if my memory serves me right.


    I agree that a crank box internal gear, would be great.
    If a cost no object solution would be called for, it would simply be a matter of using Sic cogs coupled with PEEK/carbon.
    I would just expect such to become insanely expensive.

    Well, something to do with my time in 2018


    Magura

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    Seen the postman around yet?


    Magura

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    package

    M

    Don't know if it has arrived yet...I am in Boston attending to my dying mother. Home Saturday.

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