Results 1 to 88 of 88
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816

    Another Forward Components EBB review

    I received my FC Universal EBB Saturday and installed (mostly) it last night on my aluminum Homegrown. Mine wasn't the usual install since I had a 73mm BB shell and an XTR M960 crank which doesn't allow you to cut down the granny mounts (the spider is shaped for strength and it extends as far as the granny mounts). Everything came nicely package with thorough instructions (you can find a scanned copy below). The quality, attention to detail, and thought given to the design is very evident. The weight came in a 244g for everything:


    Contents of package not including the cups and instructions:


    The Universal EBB is not only lighter than the original, but also works without modifying the crank set on a 68mm shell. The way it works is by stacking two 2.5mm spacers (#2) and a 1mm o-ring (#1) between the drive side arm and the bottom bracket, but due to the1mm relief on the spacers, it adds up to the right crankarm being spaced out an additional 5mm. Since you're losing the e-type 2.5mm spacer from between the old BB cup and shell, you're spacing the drive side arm out an additional 2.5mm. Fortunately, on my M960 I was able to ditch the o-ring and still have the spider clear the EBB, so it only spaced it out an additional 1.5mm. Were I not using the M960, I probably would have cut the granny mounts off and just ditched the spacers entirely, or used one on each side as shields for the bearings.

    Since I had a 73mm shell, I needed to cut it down to 69mm (not 68mm since I didn't use the 1mm o-ring). Since I left an extra mm of material on the left side of the shell, the left arm was 1mm further out, so my cranks are only offset 0.5mm to the driveside from stock. I own a facing tool and used that with plenty of cutting paste, and aside from measuring and setup, took me about 20 minutes:


    The FC EBB requires a chamfer, which was added using a half round bastard file. The installation tool (#5) is the same size as a headset wrench, but I haven't had one of those in a while, nor was my largest adjustable wrench big enough, so I had to resort to channel locks. The instructions don't specify any thread prep, so they got the standard teflon tape and anti-seize treatment.

    Adjusting the chain tension is quite easy, but be sure to read the instructions first, and then follow them exactly.

    Regarding the bearings. The original EBB used Enduro bearings, while the Universal uses standard bearings. The bearing shims included are very nicely quality aluminum ones (#3). I have a very high opinion of Enduro BB bearings, but can see two reasons FC moved to the standard replacement ones. First, when using the 1mm o-ring, the aluminum shim adds roughly a mm more space between the EBB and drive side crank arm (if the o-ring is not used, the shim seats into the relief on the 2.5mm spacer). Second, the bore the bearing sits in is shallower on the Universal, and therefore Enduro's secondary seal wouldn't have anything to seal against. I could also see possibly issues between Enduro's secondary seal and the 2.5mm spacers. As is, I'll most likely upgrade to Phil Wood's replacement bearings at some point. I'd also strongly suggest removing the seals on the bearings and packing them with your choice of grease, as they have very little grease in them.

    I've been an Eno fan for a long time, have two of them currently, and considered them to the best tensioning system available. While the FC EBB is a little more time to set up, I now feel it's the best one available, provided your frame is compatible. You don't need to readjust tension whenever the wheel is removed, you can use a QR, you don't need to readjust your brakes, and you can use it on a titanium frame.

    The only things I'd like to see different are an installation tool which uses a more common size wrench, a distributor in the USA (Enduro/RWC?), and at least a black option, instead of just the standard silver.

    Sorry if this post doesn't make much sense, but I'm really tired this morning.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by bad mechanic; 05-21-2010 at 06:53 AM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    351
    Can I use the FC EBB on a frame with 73 mm BB shell if I remove the granny mounts on my XTR 970...?

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    I think so, but I can't confirm since I don't have a M970 in front of me. I'd suggest either emailing or IMing Forward Components.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Follow up:
    I've put about 50 miles on them so far, and they're holding very well. I even bounced the chainring off a log really hard, and it didn't move at all. I'm extremely pleased with things.
    Last edited by bad mechanic; 05-10-2010 at 07:44 AM.

  5. #5
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,152
    bad mechanic = misnomer unless by bad mechanic you mean one baaaaaaaad mechanic.

    --Sparty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Update:
    I've ridden the EBB almost exclusively since I've installed it, and it's worked flawlessly. It's never made a noise or slipped. In fact, I've been able to pretty much forget about it. In my opinion, if your frame is compatible, the FC EBB is the best tensioning system available.

    The only issue I've had is the left side bearing is already starting to get a little gritty, though I expected as much considering they're pretty cheap bearings, and the left side has little protection. However, to fix that problem I'm installing these:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Another Forward Components EBB review-fcebb.jpg  


  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,310
    How did you get Black cups? And are those Phil bearings??
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    They were anodized after the fact, and yes, those are Phil Wood bearings. The left side is also going to get a Phil dust shield and spacer instead of the FC spacer since it takes up the same amount of room, but will protect the bearing better.

  9. #9
    I dig trails!
    Reputation: Mr.P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,519
    Very cool! Thanks for the write up.

    P

  10. #10
    bike geek
    Reputation: tamjam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,051
    How long did it take for you to receive yours after ordering? I ordered mine 1 week + 2 days ago and haven't seen anything yet. Not getting any response to two emails inquiring about expected shipping times either.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Figure between two and two and a half weeks.

  12. #12
    Mtbr Forum Sponsor - Homebrewed Components
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,419
    he's a one man show, so it can be hard to keep up on emails while still getting parts done. I dont think he's intentionally slacking.

  13. #13
    bike geek
    Reputation: tamjam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,051
    Quote Originally Posted by ISuckAtRiding
    he's a one man show, so it can be hard to keep up on emails while still getting parts done. I dont think he's intentionally slacking.
    Cool, figured it was something like that. He was quick to reply when I initially inquired about availability, but has been tough to reach since. The bike it's going on arrived yesterday, so I've got some ants in my pants to get it dialed in quick like so I can log some time on it before cross season starts.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    You're also in the USA, and it's coming from Canada, which can cause delays.

  15. #15
    Ovaries on the Outside
    Reputation: umarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,366
    Are you converting a Schwinn Homegrown?

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Yup, it's a '99 Schwinn Homegrown. It's a bike I simply don't see myself ever getting rid of. In fact, I bought an identical frame just to have a spare. The FC EBB continues to be flawless.

    It's one of two Homegrowns I have converted to single speed.

    The whole tomato:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Another Forward Components EBB review-tomato.jpg  


  17. #17
    Ovaries on the Outside
    Reputation: umarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,366
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Yup, it's a '99 Schwinn Homegrown. It's a bike I simply don't see myself ever getting rid of. In fact, I bought an identical frame just to have a spare. The FC EBB continues to be flawless.

    It's one of two Homegrowns I have converted to single speed.

    The whole tomato:
    Damn, I love those homegrowns. I almost bought one a couple months back, but couldn't figure out how it would come in handy. Looks faaaantastic.

    How much does the complete weigh?

    (I was looking at a 2000- piss yellow)

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    It weighs 19.8 pounds with a durable build. The thing flies.

  19. #19
    Ovaries on the Outside
    Reputation: umarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,366
    Freaking awesome.

  20. #20
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,152
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Yup, it's a '99 Schwinn Homegrown. It's a bike I simply don't see myself ever getting rid of. In fact, I bought an identical frame just to have a spare. The FC EBB continues to be flawless.

    It's one of two Homegrowns I have converted to single speed.

    The whole tomato:
    Wow... the seat on that tomato looks like it's about to fall off the back.

    --sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Wow... the seat on that tomato looks like it's about to fall off the back.

    --sParty
    Welcome to my unusually proportioned body.

  22. #22
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,152
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Welcome to my unusually proportioned body.
    The last person to tell me that was, uh, not a guy.

    --sParty

    P.S. Nor was anyone previous to her.
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  23. #23
    The need for singlespeed
    Reputation: zaskaranddriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    973
    Lol. It is one kickass practical bike, one of my favs on the forum.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    The last person to tell me that was, uh, not a guy.

    --sParty

    P.S. Nor was anyone previous to her.
    Yeah, that may have sounded a little weird . I'm a guy, but have a short torso with long legs, with a longer than average femur. To fit a bike properly, I need the seat far back (notice the seat is all the way back on a set back post), and then a shorter top tube to compensate. With a seat positioned "normally" I feel like I'm riding a tri bike.

  25. #25
    master blaster
    Reputation: veloreality's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,149
    nice. im now riding 3 fc ebb's and loving them.

  26. #26
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,152
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Yeah, that may have sounded a little weird . I'm a guy, but have a short torso with long legs, with a longer than average femur. To fit a bike properly, I need the seat far back (notice the seat is all the way back on a set back post), and then a shorter top tube to compensate. With a seat positioned "normally" I feel like I'm riding a tri bike.
    Amazing how adaptable the bicycle is... and how adaptable people's bodies are.

    My seats are all in the opposite position of yours -- jammed all the way forward on their rails. I have long legs but also long arms and torso. Because of the size XL cranks I like, I either need a custom frame or production frame with a steep seat tube angle.

    Some of this is simply personal preference, I imagine.

    Anyway I've said it before and I'll say it again, one of the things I love best about bicycles is that we all get to customize our sleds into whatever form we feel works best for us. I see some guys' high dollar bikes and roll my eyes, thinking I could never ride a bike set up like that, but for them it is perfect.

    That's cool. I imagine many folks look at my bikes and think similar thoughts. Whatever. At ride's end we'll all be grinning ear to ear while enjoying our post-ride brews and laughing about how much fun we had slaying that day's epic ride.

    There is a bit of Dr. Frankenstein in each of us.

    --sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    118

    Thanks for the write up!

    Bad Mech,

    Great review. I have been racking my brain on the best way to get a single speed option for my vertical dropout, disk specific DEAN Colonel. I was convinced that the ENO Disk was the answer BUT my Marta brakes were going to make that more problematic. I looked all over for someone who modified the disk adapter to fit Martas, but could not find anything. I am totally sold on the Martas am not going to give them up.

    FC EBB = problem solved! I keep my Martas and do not have to worry about modifying an adapter, I keep my Hope Pro 2 SS hub which has been awesome.

    I was always worried about EBB as a high hassle option for tensioning, but your review makes this thing sound solid.

    Bad Mech you are a fantastic contributer to this site. Recently you got me through the intimidating Black Box Pop lock removal modification for my Reba without a problem. You are very knowledgable, critical, and your advice is trustworthy and sound.

    Thanks for all of your help, advice and reviews. You are the man!

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Amazing how adaptable the bicycle is... and how adaptable people's bodies are.

    My seats are all in the opposite position of yours -- jammed all the way forward on their rails. I have long legs but also long arms and torso. Because of the size XL cranks I like, I either need a custom frame or production frame with a steep seat tube angle.

    Some of this is simply personal preference, I imagine.

    Anyway I've said it before and I'll say it again, one of the things I love best about bicycles is that we all get to customize our sleds into whatever form we feel works best for us. I see some guys' high dollar bikes and roll my eyes, thinking I could never ride a bike set up like that, but for them it is perfect.

    That's cool. I imagine many folks look at my bikes and think similar thoughts. Whatever. At ride's end we'll all be grinning ear to ear while enjoying our post-ride brews and laughing about how much fun we had slaying that day's epic ride.

    There is a bit of Dr. Frankenstein in each of us.

    --sParty
    I fear this will derail this thread completely, and will sound utterly sappy, but...

    I was just speaking with someone last night about the bicycle, and how truly perfect it is. In many parts of the world the bicycle has liberated people as they can now travel long distances cheaply and in a short time. Look no further than China for a perfect example. In other parts of the world it's evolved into sport and hobby. Bicycles are still used in business for couriering packages, and in the government for police duty. It is the most efficient form of transportation ever created. Like you were saying it, it can adapt to all the varies shapes and sizes of people, the same way it can adapt to many different roles, for so many different people, in so many different places. It is about as perfect a machine as is possible.

    What's more amazing is if you brought someone here from a century ago, they be able to immediately recognize a bike. If you look the picture below, it's from 110 years ago, but the bicycle really hasn't changed that much. Looking at it, it's obvious it shares DNA with my bike above. How did we manage to get something so right, so quickly?

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by MD Sleep
    FC EBB = problem solved!
    I agree, it should work perfectly for you.

    As mentioned briefly above, I'd strongly recommend replacing the NDS spacer with the one linked below. It does a good job of shielding the bearing, and should greatly reduce the amount of contamination. With the stock setup, you solely relying the bearing seals to keep it clean.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,788
    Great reaview!

    I now have an unusual question: Has anyone tried on of these on a 100mm BB shell? I am contemplating building up a snow bike with an Alfine hub. I do not want/like the Pugsly with it's track ends. I would MUCH prefer a 907 aluminum frame, but then I need some way to tension the chain, and thought this might be just what the docter ordered. I would probably use a set of Surly Whirly cranks, but other compatible cranks might be the Race Face Atlas FR crankset, or the crankset sold by Speedway Cycles.

    Any idea if this would work? The Surly cranks seem to have quite a few spacers to play with, so I think it could work.

    And yes, I did send Forward Components and email, but have not heard back.

    Thanks,
    Mark

  31. #31
    The need for singlespeed
    Reputation: zaskaranddriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    973
    Do you need to re-tension when switching between 16t and 18t FWs?

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by zaskaranddriver
    Do you need to re-tension when switching between 16t and 18t FWs?
    Yes, just like you would with any other tensioning device. However, after you do it a couple times, tensioning the chain is pretty quick and easy. However, I think it works best in a set-it-and-forget-it capacity.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    118

    Crank compatability tips

    After your great review I just ordered my FC EBB. They told me in an e-mail that my Race Face Atlas cranks are not compatible at this time.

    Before I throw down for a new set of XT M770'a, do you know what the incompatibility is? If it is just the small ring mounts then that would be easy to grind off. Or is it something else?

    Also, they do not list the SLX cranks as an option, but XT and XTR are. Again, anyone know why not? I

    I will e-mail them directly but figured I would ask here since FC will only speak for what they have validated (which I totally understand)

    Thanks

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    What diameter is the Atlas' spindle? My guess either the spindle is too wide, or the diameter isn't correct.

    The SLX cranks should work fine. He probably just hasn't updated the site.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    351
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    I agree, it should work perfectly for you.

    As mentioned briefly above, I'd strongly recommend replacing the NDS spacer with the one linked below. It does a good job of shielding the bearing, and should greatly reduce the amount of contamination. With the stock setup, you solely relying the bearing seals to keep it clean.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product
    Any reason you only recommend the PW dust shield on the non drive side? I will use the FC EBB on a bike with 73 mm BB and using a XTR M970 with the granny mounts removed. According to Eric this will work if I just mount the bearing cups with no spacers or rubber rings. But the PW dust shields are very thin right...?

    (I used an XTR BB with PW bearings and PW dust shields on both sides on my Yeti (73 mm BB) a few years ago with great results).

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    It should work fine. The FC EBB uses aluminum shims between the bearing and crank axle. They are labeled number 3 in my picture at the top. Their ends extend out from the bearing 1mm. The PW dust shield takes the place of this aluminum shim. As the PW dust shield are roughly 1mm wide, the spacing stays the same.

    PS - The EBB continues to run quietly, and hasn't slipped at all.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    454

    torque settings

    Anyone have any torque settings?

    I rode this EBB for a few months with only 1 very minor slippage (slight loosening of the chain- not related to stretch). Then rode another month or so with no issue. Then had a complete catastrophic failure of the entire system. It shifted during a climb (about 3.5 hrs into a 6 hr ride), and ground the ball bearings down and destroyed the races. Full crank bind - had to walk out 4 hrs out of the woods. Not a fun day.

    For the peanut gallery who wants to jump on me, yes I checked the bolts often....very often actually since for some reason I was nervous about this (hey - its new!). And I DID in fact check them before that ride. I've been riding SS for about 10 yrs, and know what too much tension can do to bearings, so it was not over-tensioned to begin with.

    Eric was straight up and offered a full replacement to the destroyed parts. In order to ensure that this would no happen again, I also asked him for torque settings. He said "no problem, I'll get them for you in a a day". No return. Sent him a total of 5 additional emails - each time he kept saying- I'll get back to you.

    Eric if you are reading this - This is MONTHS after I've contacted you for the torque specs. You obviously go the emails, b/c you replied to them. I am not a fan of blasting people on forums (and this is not a blast - more of a public offering to ask for some info that we could ALL stand to benefit from). Please let us know what torque specs you recommend for the system.
    Thanks in advance-

  38. #38
    master blaster
    Reputation: veloreality's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,149
    Quote Originally Posted by jayoutside
    Anyone have any torque settings?
    the torque settings are listed in the instructions. id go look at my paperwork, but you sound like a punk so you can wait.

    btw mine slipped after the first ride, since then i crank mine down as tight a possible. no issues and my three bikes running it.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    454
    Hi Veloreality -
    I'm not going to stump to name calling like some on this forum. If you re-read my post you'll see that the goal was to get torque specs for everyone. At no time did I personally attack or put down you or Eric at Forward Components. I stated that my 5 attempts to obtain this info form Eric via email failed and thus was trying to get his attention (or someone else's) to help. I can assure you 100% that torque specs are NOT listed in my instructions.
    If you read the instructions carefully, you'll see it clearly states that cranking down as hard as possible is not advised. He specifically states that it is not necessary to tighten the bolts hard enough that it causes an imprint in the eccentric insert (at least in my instructions anyway)..... Which doesn't give us an objective answer to the torque specs needed.
    If you've got the specs, I'd love for you to share them - and thanks in advance. If not, please keep your preconceptions to yourself.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    I doubt there's a torque value available for the set screws, but if I were to guess, I'd say it's in the 5-10 in/lbs range. It's not much.

    When you tightened the set screws, did you first tighten the ones on top, and then the ones on the bottom?

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    351

    Half link help...!

    I'm in the process of setting my hardtail up SS with the FC EBB.

    I've ordered the Gusset link-and-a-half some place in the UK (recommended by Bad Mechanic in another tread) but I can't order the KMC masterlinks (also recommended by BM...) as Amazon for some reason will not ship these to Denmark...

    They look like these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ss_T15_product

    Can anyone help me get 6-8 pcs of these links....please!

  42. #42
    master blaster
    Reputation: veloreality's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,149
    Quote Originally Posted by rasse1977
    I'm in the process of setting my hardtail up SS with the FC EBB.

    I've ordered the Gusset link-and-a-half some place in the UK (recommended by Bad Mechanic in another tread) but I can't order the KMC masterlinks (also recommended by BM...) as Amazon for some reason will not ship these to Denmark...

    They look like these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ss_T15_product

    Can anyone help me get 6-8 pcs of these links....please!
    why do you need 6-8 pcs? chain too short? if your chains long enough and you only need a half link for tension then 1 is all you need.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    The Gusset half link requires two, and the rest are for stock.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    108
    Jay,
    I am not sure what size set screws are being used for the FC EBB, but linked is a chart of max torque specs for various sized set screws. If you don't know what size set screw is used, then you can use the size of hex wrench you use to tighten them to figure out what size set screw you have.

    http://www.thelenchannel.com/1torque.php

    On another note, I ordered one of these on August 30th and have yet to hear anything back from FC about the order other than the automatic receipt from Paypal. I am expecting it to take about 2-3 weeks to arrive, does that sound reasonable?

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi_Lee
    I am expecting it to take about 2-3 weeks to arrive, does that sound reasonable?
    Yes.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    108
    Just as an engineering exercise using the FC EBB set up with six #4-48 18-8 SS set screws. The max torque of these (according to engineers edge) should be 6.6 in-lbs. If each one of these set screws are torqued to that spec, they should each provide 294.6 lbs of axial force onto the eccentric inserts.

    Now the coefficient of static friction between steel and aluminum is something like .45-.61, so the set screws are each contributing about 135-179lbs of frictional resistance at at a radius of 34mm (half of a 68mm shell, but this is an assumption since I don't have one in front of me to measure the diameter of those eccentric inserts). Calculating torque, each set screw provides about 240 in-lbs of torque due to static friction if they are torqued to 6.6 in-lbs. Now you have 12 screws (6 on each side) for a total of 2,886lbs of torque.

    I am going to assume that the throw of the EBB is about a half link (is this right?) or about half an inch. This means that assuming the worst case scenario where the EBB is set up at either the 3 or 9 o'clock positions, the leverage of the cranks comes in at .25 inches from center. You would have to provide something like 11,500 lbs of force on your cranks to get them to shift.

    That being said, I have an inherent distrust of set screws. I also had to make a few assumptions. First is the size of screw, threading, and torque of the set screws. Also the diameter of the cup that holds the eccentric inserts. The CoF is also based off of mild steel to aluminum and steel to aluminum-bronze, where SS is probably not the same as steel. Also, the CoF will be somewhat dependent on the finishes of the materials. I have also assumed that the screws do not gouge the aluminum. So, take this with a grain of salt.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    454
    very interesting - thanks JimiLee - I'll try this out unless Forward Components officially comes through with some values.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,501
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    I fear this will derail this thread completely, and will sound utterly sappy, but... How did we manage to get something so right, so quickly?

    easy, it's perfect because the first pedal powered bicycle was designed by a Scot!

    http://www.inventor-strategies.com/b...invention.html

    hehehehehe!
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    119

    set screw torque

    Quote Originally Posted by jayoutside
    very interesting - thanks JimiLee - I'll try this out unless Forward Components officially comes through with some values.
    Mine also came loose on first ride - I think during a fast rocky descent. I've gone to cranking the screws down. I've got a couple rides in and it seems ok now. I don't think I'd trust this setup in a long race situation, but definitely a good way to get my feet wet on a SS.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Let me ask again, did you tighten the top set screws before the bottom set screws?

    The instructions clearly say to tighten the top set screws first. This way the eccentric is pressed into the bottom of the cup, and the weight of the rider, and downward force of pedaling, isn't supported by the set screws but the bodies of the eccentric and cup. If the eccentric was resting on the set screws and not the cup, then as it's used the set screws would quickly gouge into the aluminum eccentric, which lets the eccentric drop slightly in the cup, which then, essentially, loosens the top set screws. The eccentric would then rotate.
    Last edited by bad mechanic; 09-13-2010 at 05:50 AM.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,594
    Quote Originally Posted by tamjam
    Cool, figured it was something like that. He was quick to reply when I initially inquired about availability, but has been tough to reach since. The bike it's going on arrived yesterday, so I've got some ants in my pants to get it dialed in quick like so I can log some time on it before cross season starts.
    Well? Did you ever get it? How did the install go? How is it performing?

  52. #52
    bike geek
    Reputation: tamjam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Well? Did you ever get it? How did the install go? How is it performing?
    You talkin' to me? Still haven't gotten it. Ordered 8/24. Was supposed to arrive the middle of last week, according to Eric. He's looking into it. There is still a month before my first cross race, but would like to get this bike fully dialed soon so i can get some time on it before the season starts. Will post feedback once it's installed.

  53. #53
    bike geek
    Reputation: tamjam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Well? Did you ever get it? How did the install go? How is it performing?
    Finally arrived today. Took ~45 minutes to install, and was a breeze to set up. Will take it out for a good thrashing on Sunday morning. Here's to hoping I did everything right! Thanks for putting out such a cool product Eric!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Another Forward Components EBB review-yeti1.jpg  

    Another Forward Components EBB review-yeti4.jpg  

    Another Forward Components EBB review-yeti3.jpg  


  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,594
    Quote Originally Posted by tamjam
    Finally arrived today. Took ~45 minutes to install, and was a breeze to set up. Will take it out for a good thrashing on Sunday morning. Here's to hoping I did everything right! Thanks for putting out such a cool product Eric!
    Nice! Looking forward to an actual test ride report, so put it to a good thrashing!

  55. #55
    Out spokin'
    Reputation: Sparticus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Posts
    9,152
    Quote Originally Posted by tamjam
    Finally arrived today. Took ~45 minutes to install, and was a breeze to set up. Will take it out for a good thrashing on Sunday morning. Here's to hoping I did everything right! Thanks for putting out such a cool product Eric!
    That looks awesome.

    --sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Let me ask again, did you tighten the top set screws before the bottom set screws?

    The instructions clearly say to tighten the top set screws first. This way the eccentric is pressed into the bottom of the cup, and the weight of the rider, and downward force of pedaling, isn't supported by the set screws but the bodies of the eccentric and cup. If the eccentric was resting on the set screws and not the cup, then as it's used the set screws would quickly gouge into the aluminum eccentric, which lets the eccentric drop slightly in the cup, which then, essentially, loosens the top set screws. The eccentric would then rotate.
    In my case, yes, tightened top 1/2 of screws first, like the instructions say. The simple fact is you have to crank down pretty good on those screws if you don't want the thing to slip. They definitely gouge into aluminum at this point. The FC EBB is fine, but definitely not a permanent solution for the type of riding I plan on doing.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    I should have included this in my original post.

    In several other threads here, people mentioned you barely have to tighten the set screws. After I installed everything, I set the tension and tightened the set screws lightly. On the first ride the chain loosened up a bit, so I knew I hadn't tightened them down enough. What I found works for me, is tightening them down with the long part of an allen key about 3 to 4 inches long, and I stop tightening when the allen starts to twist. I'd estimate this puts about 5 in/lbs torque on it. It hasn't moved even slightly after the first ride.

    In my experience, when properly torqued, the set screws will mark the eccentric.

  58. #58
    master blaster
    Reputation: veloreality's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,149
    ^nice yeti!
    i just set up my cross bike with an ebb.\

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OldHouseMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,893
    I'm thinking about setting up my Ventana El Padrino fixed with the FC EBB. Thoughts?
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    36

    belt drive compatibility?

    I'm curious as to the amount of throw it has in measurable values.

    The reason why is because I'm interested in using this with a belt drive. I think I saw somewhere that Gates recommends 2cm of adjustment to allow proper installation and tensioning. Earlier in this thread it was suggested throw was about half an inch. If 1in = 2.54cm, then .5in = 1.27cm, which is not quite enough for a belt.

    Even so, maybe just the right combination of gears and belt length would allow for proper tensioning? Or maybe you could put the belt on BEFORE you slip the wheel into the dropouts, allowing for tensioning by physically pushing the wheel backwards... I bet Gates wouldn't recommend it, but maybe the combination of the two methods above would work.

    Anyone have any comments/suggestions?

  61. #61
    Mtbr Forum Sponsor - Homebrewed Components
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by strikeir13
    I'm curious as to the amount of throw it has in measurable values.

    The reason why is because I'm interested in using this with a belt drive. I think I saw somewhere that Gates recommends 2cm of adjustment to allow proper installation and tensioning. Earlier in this thread it was suggested throw was about half an inch. If 1in = 2.54cm, then .5in = 1.27cm, which is not quite enough for a belt.

    Even so, maybe just the right combination of gears and belt length would allow for proper tensioning? Or maybe you could put the belt on BEFORE you slip the wheel into the dropouts, allowing for tensioning by physically pushing the wheel backwards... I bet Gates wouldn't recommend it, but maybe the combination of the two methods above would work.

    Anyone have any comments/suggestions?
    chains.

















  62. #62
    Ovaries on the Outside
    Reputation: umarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,366
    I'm digging the cross bikes.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    108

    A Quick Review

    First off, It seems like a bad idea to use one of these with an attempt at belt drive.

    It took a while, a long while, in order for me to get my dirty little paws on one of these. I ordered mine on August 31st and it arrived last week, so about 6 weeks. After 5 weeks I emailed FC and said that they were waiting on a part and that it should be on its way. It arrived a couple days later.

    I was so excited. The machined parts look very nice and well machined. No dings or scratches or gouges from errant machining, etc. Once I found time to install them on my bike I discover a fatal flaw to my plan; that I am an idiot. Read that as 73mm BB. Well, after a run across town to buy a new file and borrow a dremel and some "careful machining" of my own, the cranks are installed. and fit wonderfully.

    Other notes on installation. I am running Shimano SLX cranks. The installation tool that came with it does not fit my headset wrench. My wrench is a closed end wrench which doesn't allow enough room length-wise for the adapter. I am adjusting my BB forward between the 12-3 o'clock so bumps that may cause slippage of the ebb would tighten the chain and shouldn't be an issue. Tightening the 6 set screws on either side is not easy since one of them lines up with the chainstay and there just ins't that much space on the driveside, partially because of the bashgaurd I have.

    Now I have two rides in on the new BB. There is significantly less resistance in the drivetrain, but that is because I left the chain a little too loose. However, due to the slack in drivetrain, my chain has fell off twice and I find it a little obnoxious or difficult (not real hard though) to adjust the ebb, especially with the cranks installed.

    Overall I definitely have positive feedback about this product. Thank you FC. I will try to get back to everyone after more riding, assuming I come across any issues.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation: itsdoable's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,902
    Quote Originally Posted by strikeir13
    I'm curious as to the amount of throw it has in measurable values.

    The reason why is because I'm interested in using this with a belt drive....

    <snip>...

    Anyone have any comments/suggestions?
    eBB throw will be a problem if your chain stay length does not match one of the few cog/chainwheel/belt ratios.

    A bigger problem will be achieving the correct belt tension, although it is not difficult to get a chain snug with the FC eBB, it would be difficult to apply tension, lock the set screws, and keep both sides aligned.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi_Lee
    However, due to the slack in drivetrain, my chain has fell off twice and I find it a little obnoxious or difficult (not real hard though) to adjust the ebb, especially with the cranks installed.
    The solution I found was using a long L shaped allen wrench with a ball end on it. It let's me easily get to the set screws even with the crankset on. It also sets my torque for me, since I tighten until the key starts to twist.


  66. #66
    bike geek
    Reputation: tamjam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,051
    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Looking forward to an actual test ride report, so put it to a good thrashing!
    Thrashing #1 issued today at The Lion of Fairfax race, and the EBB held up great. I got 2 pretty good practices in on it prior to the actual race, and did have to take up a tiny amount of slack that developed after the 2nd practice, but I think that had more to do with a new-ish chain stretching than the EBB slipping or anything.

    I just love the fact that with this device, pretty much ANY frame out there is SS-able.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,594
    Quote Originally Posted by tamjam
    Thrashing #1 issued today at The Lion of Fairfax race, and the EBB held up great. I got 2 pretty good practices in on it prior to the actual race, and did have to take up a tiny amount of slack that developed after the 2nd practice, but I think that had more to do with a new-ish chain stretching than the EBB slipping or anything.

    I just love the fact that with this device, pretty much ANY frame out there is SS-able.
    Good to hear!

    I changed cogs on my SS, and I ended up with my chain too tight. I don't like sliders.

  68. #68
    miwuksurfer
    Guest

    Over a month?!

    Hey guys,
    I have been waiting over a month for my new bb. The new crank is sitting in the dining room, ready to be mounted. I emailed FC at the one month mark and haven't heard anything. Does anyone know if he is still alive or on an extended vacation? Thanks.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Have you tried both PM and email? The email may have gotten caught in the spam filter. I think someone else higher up said FC was waiting for some parts to come in.

  70. #70
    All 26.5" all the time!
    Reputation: Zanetti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,855
    Ordered mine in mid September, it arrived yesterday. According to the postage stamp, it was shipped on October 10th -- so expect 10 to 12 days if you live in the states.

    First ride was today, and it seems to be a really good product. It's worth the wait.

  71. #71
    miwuksurfer
    Guest
    Heard back from Eric, EBB should be here soon. My poor bike is itching for a ride!

  72. #72
    miwuksurfer
    Guest
    Hey guys, got my EBB in. Looks great. Trying to get it to work with a Race Face Deus Crankset and have a couple questions.
    Before anybody chimes in, I know it is not on the recommended list.
    Now, is there a specific reason, beyond less threads in the cup, that FC recommends against shimming out the BB cups?
    With the race face cranks, it appears that I am coming up a bit long on the spindle, maybe two mm, and that is with the included mtb spacers.
    Thanks.

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    16
    Does anyone know if this is compatible with SRAM XX cranks?

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    72
    Suppose I should weigh in on the subject. I got my FC EBB around the end of last year (2010). I mainly use my road/cx bike for commuting to work but I also do the odd road ride and I actually did a CX race in november with the EBB and it worked well. I changed the tires, chainring and chain literally an hour before the race started so it was a rush job. I rode to the start of the race, about an 8 mile road ride. When I got there I noticed the chain had slackened considerably. I had the forethought to bring a long allen wrench with a ball end so could adjust it in the field without removing the crank, which I did just minutes before the race began. It performed flawlessly for the race and the ride home. When I got around to switching it back to road tires and gearing I noticed that the drive side cup had turned and the spindle was somewhat wedged in. Not a problem, I just removed the crank and loosened the cups. Switched the chainring back and re-installed everything and it's been fine ever since. I'm definitely getting better at adjusting the tension. The ball end allen wrench is priceless when dealing with an FC EBB IMO.

    Pics from initial road setup:





  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7
    Hi! I'm so interested in this eccentric bottom bracket! I've got trek cruiseliner bicycle with nexus 8 hub. It's somewhat uncomfortable to tension a chain by moving the rear wheel in the dropout, so I'd like to install ebb.
    From what I've fount in the internet there're two ebb for 68 mm bottom bracket, that is Forward Components and Trickstuff Exzentriker. Judging by the review both seem to work fine though the latter is more expensive.
    Can anyone please tell me if FC's ebb suits my bike. And if it does where I can buy it. Their site seem to be not working.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    The FC EBB is no longer produced. The two options are the Trickstuff Exzentriker and the Phil Wood Philcentric.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7
    And which, to your opinion, is better? Phil's is a lot cheaper, but requires an installation tool, which isn't sold separately. Also, I can't work out what of the phil's components exactly should I buy.
    Or better to stick with trickstuff?

    Also an important questions:
    1. Do I need special cranks/axles for Phil Wood and Trickstaff EBB's? Currently I'm using common square tapered axle
    2. Is it easy to tension the chain? Do I need to remove cranks? For instance I want to remove the chain from a bicycle. Would I need to move rear wheel? Or is it enough to loosen the chain with EBB?
    Last edited by Crissaegrim; 11-06-2011 at 08:15 AM.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    260
    1. With each of these EBBs, you'll have to run a 2-piece, ie external crankset. No square taper. Anything compatible with the shimano BB will work (most options, no SRAM).

    2. It'd be easier to remove the rear wheel....

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7
    1. That's bad. So an EBB requires hollowtech cranks? And they're not that cheap. I wonder if there are axles with square taper that could be fitted inside them.
    2, Why would it be easier to remove the rear wheel? In the case of Trickstuff there's no need to remove cranks to tighten/loosen the chain, is there?

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    260
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissaegrim View Post
    1. That's bad. So an EBB requires hollowtech cranks? And they're not that cheap. I wonder if there are axles with square taper that could be fitted inside them.
    2, Why would it be easier to remove the rear wheel? In the case of Trickstuff there's no need to remove cranks to tighten/loosen the chain, is there?
    1. Nothing like that exists. I usually use square taper too and ended up just getting some cheap deore cranks on ebay when I bought my forward components EBB.

    2. no need. I thought you said when breaking the chain. With the FC ebb it's really annoying to adjust with the cranks on.

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7
    1. I wonder what diameter is hollowtech's axle, I might find an old square taper axle and modify it.
    2. What do you mean by breaking the chain?

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    1. Yes, the current crop of EBBs for standard shells require external bearing cranks (Hollowtech II for Shimano). You can find several really nice cranks for not too much money. The best is the Shimano XTR M960 crank modified for single speed use. You can also buy a brand new LX crankset from Jenson for about $85.

    2. Yes, it's much easier removing the rear wheel since you don't have to deal with a tensioner, and you don't need to worry about readjusting the tension when you reinstall the wheel (unless you changed ratios). Tensioning the chain is a little more involved with either the Phil or Trickstuff, but it's not horrible, and you don't need to do it frequently. You need to remove the cranks to adjust the Phil, but you generally don't for the Trickstuff.

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7
    I don't get it, why would I remove the wheel if I could just loosen the EBB, take off chain lock and remove the chain. Wouldn't it be easier?

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissaegrim View Post
    I don't get it, why would I remove the wheel if I could just loosen the EBB, take off chain lock and remove the chain. Wouldn't it be easier?
    Why would you want to loosen the EBB when you can just remove the rear wheel?

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7
    I thought it was easier, no? At least with Trickstuff?

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissaegrim View Post
    I thought it was easier, no? At least with Trickstuff?
    Uh...no.

    Just how difficult is it taking your wheel off?

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7
    Well, Before moving the wheel, I'll have too take off shifting cable. Plus later when I'll be installing it back there's a problem of aligning it correctly so that the distance between chainstays is equal on each side. I just don't like this procedure

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,816
    Ah, you're running an internally geared up; I didn't realize that. In that case I think you're screwed either way.

Members who have read this thread: 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2018 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.