Ahoy! V-brake holdouts!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Recovering Weight Weenie
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    Ahoy! V-brake holdouts!

    It's official...you can no longer use these excuses for still using this decayed method of bringing your bike to a halt...
    1. If they're still good enough for the pro's to use....
    2. The pro's are weight concious more than anyone....so v-brakes are the call...

    these are from Sundays NORBA National Mountain Bike Series in Waco, Texas.

    *zip....flame suit on....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    "Mr. Britannica"
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    I can always use this one...

    Because I want to.

    Nice pics.

  3. #3
    Cracker-magnon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    It's official...you can no longer use these excuses for still using this decayed method of bringing your bike to a halt...
    1. If they're still good enough for the pro's to use....
    2. The pro's are weight concious more than anyone....so v-brakes are the call...*zip....flame suit on....
    No, but I can still use:

    1.) I'm just a poor college student, and what I got works....for now.

    2.) Just like Arrogant [email protected] Ale, It's Not Too Expensive, You're Too Cheap

    3.) I like the squeal after a water crossing

    "Life is a [email protected]#^ing story problem, get used to it - my son.

  4. #4
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    Does that mean I should also use lace up shoes and half finger gloves? And what about the visor vs no visor

    Pros have been using disc and fs bikes for years now.

  5. #5

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    Man, if the pro's are using it, I'm buying it! Of course this season I'm spending all of my money on steroids and blood doping stuff, so I can't afford discs. Sigh. Maybe next year. And since I divorced my wife & abandoned my kids to race, I may not have as much disposable income next year, what with the alimony & child support.

    I guess these V-brakes are going to be making mine a life not worth living for the foreseeable future. I hope that the pro's start jumping out of tall buildings soon so that I can end all of this suffering!
    Last edited by retch; 03-15-2004 at 12:02 PM. Reason: add a little more satire

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Does that mean I should also use lace up shoes and half finger gloves?
    Get with the times man. Can't you see they've moved on to cut out knuckles. That's just bad-ass man. Okay I hope this is not the case, but by the looks from those pics, they could've used a road bike and saved a lot of grams.
    People don't think it be like it is, but it do - Oscar Gamble

  7. #7
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Does that mean I should also use lace up shoes and half finger gloves? And what about the visor vs no visor

    Pros have been using disc and fs bikes for years now.
    I heard they were using those new fangled knobby tires too.

    Theres just something about V brakes on my ss that I like.I never seem to need the discs as much on the ss,maybe I just need to go faster???

  8. #8
    FUD
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    what are these "V" brakes you speak of?

    and why would I want to use them when my canti's stop me just fine.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUD
    and why would I want to use them when my canti's stop me just fine.
    Best reponse yet!
    It makes me think back to the days when we didn't need brakes at all.
    You just drag your foot.
    You either pin it against the tire or scrap both feet along the ground.
    Mom never like be doing that to my shoes but it got the job done eventually.

    I'd like to see that shoot out: V's vs Feet

    I bet with my sized foot I could put the v's to rest in any conditions! =)

  10. #10

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    Amen on the canti's

    Quote Originally Posted by FUD
    and why would I want to use them when my canti's stop me just fine.
    I can get 1-finger skids and front nose wheelies with my Avid cantis, way better modulation than V brakes, no squealing, and they're lighter than most Vs. My Avids were Ned's brakes of choice for a couple of seasons when he was still raging.
    V brakes exist because shitmano wanted brakes that could be installed by trained third world monkeys in asian sweatshops. cantis require a modicum of skill to set up correctly.

  11. #11
    paintbucket
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUD
    and why would I want to use them when my canti's stop me just fine.
    Plus they squeal much louder.
    When the going gets weird its bedtime.

  12. #12
    artistic...
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    trained 3rd world monkeys???

    are cantis better for 1st world chimpanzees? want a banana?


    V brakes exist because shitmano wanted brakes that could be installed by trained third world monkeys in asian sweatshops. cantis require a modicum of skill to set up correctly.[/QUOTE]
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  13. #13
    34N 118W
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    Good job!

    he's BACK!!!! (nm)

  14. #14
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    Listen! a high school kid...

    Shimano didn't invent Vee brakes, and Avid perfected them anyway.

    They certainly are easier to dial in than canti's, even OnZa's, are and there's nothing wrong with that. Of course, those infernal Avid mechanical discs are even easier to set up than Arch Supremes, and that blew me away.

    My Supremes squeal less, though...

  15. #15
    occupation : Foole
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    AHOY...Pro's use what they're paid to use...LOL

    I have no problem with V-brakes, they work just fine for MY riding... perhaps someday, oneday, may upgrade to disc (at least up front) but have no "need" for it, just a "want" !!! . Hmmmmm, will there ever come a day when a major manufacturer will offer front disc/rear V, kinda like front disc/rear drum cars offerings ??? Hmmmm...just ponderin'... QUOTE=Padre]It's official...you can no longer use these excuses for still using this decayed method of bringing your bike to a halt...
    1. If they're still good enough for the pro's to use....
    2. The pro's are weight concious more than anyone....so v-brakes are the call...

    these are from Sundays NORBA National Mountain Bike Series in Waco, Texas.

    *zip....flame suit on....[/QUOTE]

  16. #16

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    trained third world monkeys in asian sweatshops

    Yeah, cos all those funny third world people are way closer to monkeys in evolutionary terms than we are.

  17. #17
    FUD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuelish
    Hmmmmm, will there ever come a day when a major manufacturer will offer front disc/rear V, kinda like front disc/rear drum cars offerings ??? Hmmmm...just ponderin'...
    GT did that in 99 or 2000 on the avalanche I think, maybe the zaskar too. it was an avid mech up front with koski vee brakes in back. I liked it.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyArmstrong
    trained third world monkeys in asian sweatshops

    Yeah, cos all those funny third world people are way closer to monkeys in evolutionary terms than we are.
    I hope you're joking, but if you're not then go educate your ignorant self & you'll find that all currently living hom0sapiens are descended from THE SAME woman. You are just as close to a monkey as any other human.

  19. #19
    Seaside stand up!
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    Yeah it sounds like a joke...sarcasm

    Quote Originally Posted by retch
    I hope you're joking, but if you're not then go educate your ignorant self & you'll find that all currently living hom0sapiens are descended from THE SAME woman. You are just as close to a monkey as any other human.
    Can't we all just get drunk and say stupid sh%t together, instead of getting drunk on the internet? 1st masterbation, now drinking..BTW shoes worked great back in the day but the ones from K-Mart like 20 years ago that your mom bought had like a hard plastic sole that would act like you were on ice skates when you wanted to stop..
    antonio

  20. #20

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    That is called doing a.....

    The bike messengers in SF call that a "Fred Flintstone", or a Fred.

    A fred is also a term of not so endearment... he's a fred, leave him alone.

    No Offense Fast Freddy.

    JS

  21. #21

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    you know, i can't help but wonder if that was because everyone and their dog expected it to be a slop fest.

    another thing, look at all these XTR wheelsets:



    damn!

    and i figure you guys will appreciate this guy:


  22. #22

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    from a DirtRag 2001 article about disc brakes.....

    Dirt Rag Articlesisc Brake Tech Feature by Several Industry Insiders Aug 2001

    Q: Joe cross-country trail rider is wondering if he should switch to disc brakes, or are his V brakes all that he needs?

    Disc pros:
    Keith Bontrager, Bontrager Components: "They are less likely to cause
    problems in wet and muddy conditions. There is less wear and tear on rim surfaces
    due to abrasion from the brake pads. The rims can wobble a bit and not stop you.
    They can be very powerful."

    Chris DiStefano, Shimano: "Discs just look cool. OK, OK, I really do appreciate
    the performance benefits as well. Greater power, less input force at the handlebar,
    increased pad durability, the rim only serves one function: holding the tire. Did I
    mention that they look cool?"

    Jeff Guerrero, Dirt Rag: "There is practically no difference in disc brake
    performance when riding in adverse conditions (snow, rain, mud, cold). The
    stopping power is great, even with cheap models of disc brakes. The amount of
    effort exerted on the brake levers is less with disc brakes than most V brakes, and
    the control is greater due to a greater degree of modulation."

    Maurice Tierney, Dirt Rag: "Strong consistent power in all conditions allows you to
    go faster and bail out of trouble later."

    Ted Wojcik, Wojcik Custom Bicycles: "Improved wet weather braking. Cool
    factor."

    Disc cons:
    Keith Bontrager: "They can be hard to set up in back, especially if your frame isn't
    designed for them. In fact, if your frame isn't designed for discs, I'd say don't mess
    with them. Changing/evolving standards can make a brake obsolete before it is very
    old. They are heavy (or the rest of the things you need to install them are). They are
    expensive. They can be finicky. They are tricky to fix on the trail."

    Chris DiStefano: "Depending on the choices made-heavier, possible noise
    (particularly with frame/fork mounts that vibrate under braking forces)."

    Jeff Guerrero: "You need disc hubs matched to a wheel built (specific tension &
    dish) to withstand the forces exerted on the spokes. You also need disc brake
    mounts on your fork lowers and seat stays. Setup of disc brakes can often be a
    chore. Caliper adjustment is done by a variety of means, ranging from washers and
    shims to internal micro adjusters and pad modification. Trial and error is the general
    method for adjustment, and may be time consuming. Some disc brakes require
    mounting adapters. Hydraulic disc brakes often require setup including 'bleeding'
    which requires knowledge, caution and some skill. If a hydraulic line breaks, trailside
    repair may be difficult if not impossible. Disc brakes are generally more expensive
    than V brakes and are considered fairly heavy."

    Maurice Tierney: "Weight, hydraulic leaks, incompatibility, new technology has not
    quite stabilized."

    Ted Wojcik: "Added expense, added weight, added complexity that may be
    beyond regular rider maintenance. Bent rotor requires carrying bike out of the
    woods. Extreme amount of asymmetrical stress on frame and forks. Disc specific
    rims are recommended."

    Q: What is the best reason for converting to disc brakes?
    Keith Bontrager: "You ride in foul weather a lot and wear through the sidewalls on
    rims or wear out brake pads constantly. You do epic rides in the Alps and melt pads
    and blow tubes on descents."

    Chris DiStefano: "Because you choose to, not for any other reason."

    Jeff Guerrero: "Optimum braking performance in all conditions."

    Maurice Tierney: "Go faster, stop faster, in all conditions."

    Ted Wojcik: "Excess amount of money hanging around. If riding in extremely wet
    conditions, braking is usually improved."

    Q: What is the best reason for not converting to disc brakes?
    Keith Bontrager: "You don't need them to do most riding fast and under control."
    Chris DiStefano: "Because you choose to, not for any other reason."

    Jeff Guerrero: "V brakes are a proven technology and will suffice, especially if the
    rider is weight or dollar conscious."

    Maurice Tierney: "Cost, weight, technology too high."

    Ted Wojcik: "For the most part rim brakes are lighter, simpler, less costly, can be
    easily released if a rim is bent."

    Q: Provide a brief commentary on the following disc brake options:
    Cable versus hydraulic.

    Keith Bontrager: "I am only familiar with the basic XC cable and hydraulic. The
    cable versions I have ridden seemed better to me. Part of that is due to the similarity
    between the ‘feel’ of the cable brakes and V brakes, which I generally ride."

    Chris DiStefano, Shimano: "Cable is great because you've already got the
    levers! I really prefer hydraulic over cable, but that's the best quote I could come up
    with. Low maintenance and high power with low input force is a superior system. I
    can say that better brakes make for a better rider. It worked for me."

    Jeff Guerrero: "Cable brakes are very simple to set up and maintain, but are
    somewhat less responsiveness and seem to have less overall power than hydraulic.
    Hydraulic seems to offer more responsive braking, though set up is often more
    involved and maintenance may be a chore."

    Maurice Tierney: "Hydro works best because it stays clean, but may leak. Cables
    stretch and don't stay clean, but are simpler technology (won't leak)."

    Ted Wojcik: "No leaks with cable brakes, hydraulic are smoother and usually more
    powerful."

    DOT fluid versus mineral oil.

    Keith Bontrager: "Cable." (Ed note: Keith likes cable.) Mineral oil, from a toxicity
    point of view. I haven't ridden a set up that used DOT fluid."

    Chris DiStefano: "Mineral oil is much more friendly to shifters and other bike parts
    if spilled. And, oh yeah, earth too."

    Jeff Guerrero: "I'm thinking mineral oil may be more eco-friendly."

    Ted Wojcik: "DOT fluid is easy to find, but can ruin paint if it leaks. Mineral oil is
    much easier on the environment."

    Two versus four piston.

    Keith Bontrager: "Cable." (Ed note: Keith really likes cable.) Probably two for me.
    Four can be trouble to set up."

    Chris DiStefano: "But these go to eleven. Seriously though, this is a tough choice. I
    enjoy both and have found both to work well for my riding."

    Jeff Guerrero: "Some of the top manufacturers stick with two piston, perhaps
    because simplicity equals longevity by way of less moving parts to break."

    Ted Wojcik: "Four piston brakes are more powerful, but sometimes they require
    the pads to run much closer to the disc."

    Open versus closed hydraulics.

    Keith Bontrager: "Cable." (Ed note: Ok, ok, we get it.) "No opinion really."

    Ted Wojcik: "Closed systems can be a nightmare to bleed if the system is opened
    for some reason."

    Q: Anything else you'd like to add?
    Chris DiStefano: "I predict that discs will soon be standard equipment on mountain
    bikes. (Cable actuated discs, that is. With hydraulic only at the high end). Don't think
    that cyclocross bikes aren't far behind either!"

    Jeff Guerrero: "Disc brakes make your bike look cool."

    Ted Wojcik: "If we had had disc brakes for a long time, and someone brought
    linear pull brakes to the market, we would think that the linear pull design was done
    by a genius." For the most part rim brakes are lighter, simpler, less costly, can be
    easily released if a rim is bent." (Ed note: V brakes are linear pull.)

  23. #23

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    Not really !

    I would say that the pros have no other option than ride
    whatever equipment their sponsor tells them to ride.
    That's why they get paid.

    In this case the manufacturers want to sell us disc-brakes
    because disc-brakes are a relatively "new" market and
    if they put these "new" brakes on their paid "supermodels"
    seen in magazines and on tv, people will automatically
    start swapping their V-brakes and old non-disc frames for
    newer ones.

    But winning races are still crucial to success=more money
    which brings me to the conclusion that Disc-brakes aren't better
    OR WORSE than V-brakes, just old and new.

    So don't worry, keep your V-brakes and save the money
    for a nice bike-related trip to an exotic place, Chile perhaps ?

    And how come Euro-crossriders are so stinking fast in hideous
    conditions using the even older cantis? (I know they change to
    new clean bikes every lap) but it makes me wonder.

    Did any one of you see the new Shimano magnetic hubbrake?
    I heard it will send disc-brakes into oblivion when they hit the
    market next spring.

  24. #24
    "Mr. Britannica"
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    Euro crossers

    Use the lightest equipment for portages.... most if not all are on alu frames. Maybe the biggest reason is that road riders and frame mfgers don't "jump on the bandwagon" as quickly as mtbers. AFAIK, no CX pro has ever raced a bike equipped with discs in a NC, World Cup, Super Prestige, or WC. Also- and perhaps just as important- the UCI made disc brakes illegal for CX last year; however, this might have been reversed.

  25. #25
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    Looks like Tom Moran's pics from Velo News

    Prolly a good idea to give proper credit where its due.
    Let's not give MTBR any copyright conflicts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    It's official...you can no longer use these excuses for still using this decayed method of bringing your bike to a halt...
    1. If they're still good enough for the pro's to use....
    2. The pro's are weight concious more than anyone....so v-brakes are the call...

    these are from Sundays NORBA National Mountain Bike Series in Waco, Texas.

    *zip....flame suit on....

  26. #26
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    I'll make it real simple. Do you ride in wet conditions a lot?

    If not, forget about discs. IMO discs have no more stopping power in DRY conditions than a good set of V brakes. They're heavier and if you already have non-disc wheels you're looking at a very expensive upgarde. I'm happy with the Vs on my 'crosser/commuter (big improvement over even Avid cantis, BTW), and the adventure bike I plan to build up later this year will also be V equipped.

    However. If you ride in the rain or mud a lot, the difference is night and day. Rim brake performance degrades very quickly once things get sloppy, and disc brake performance generally does not. (Admittely, on one night ride this winter it was raining hard enough to coat my rotors and impede braking performance, but I've found those conditions to be extremely rare. This was a catastrophic downpour - in even a "normal" rainstorm I have no problems). Those of us who ride year round in the Pacific NW run into some of the worst mud and slop imaginable, but with discs and good mud tires we have no worries. NOT true with rim brakes - a year ago I did a really gooey ride near here in Tillamook Forest. Not only did I have a lot of trouble staying in control because my Vs were so marginal in those conditions, but in just 12 miles I wore through 1/3 of my brake pads. It was so bad I had to stop and realign the pads mid-ride, even though I'd just set them up a couple days prior. After that, I swore never again.

    I'm with Keith: go mechanical. Avids in particular are incredibly easy to set up: I find them even easier to maintain and adjust than Vs. Being inclined towards simplicity myself, I personally can't imagine messing around with hydraulics.

    So let me repeat the bottom line. If you ride in mostly or exclusively dry condtions - and don't do extremely long uninterrupted downhills at extremely high speeds - I think discs are a waste of money and weight. If you do ride in wet conditions very much at all though, you're a strong candidate for discs.
    Last edited by GlowBoy; 03-21-2004 at 12:09 PM.

  27. #27
    Less yappin, more Brappin
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    ss'ers dont need brakes

    learn how to flow thru the trails, pump through corners, dont use brakes. i used to only be able to use an 8inch rotor on the forn of my bike, now i found an old LX v-brake and it works just as well as the 8 inch hayes.

    simple and cheap, like PBR.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffss
    learn how to flow thru the trails, pump through corners, dont use brakes. i used to only be able to use an 8inch rotor on the forn of my bike, now i found an old LX v-brake and it works just as well as the 8 inch hayes.

    simple and cheap, like PBR.
    Helps to live and ride in flat-to-rolling terrain, too.

  29. #29
    The man who fell to earth
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    Well said Glowboy...

    You're dead on with what you've said, and this is exactly what my experience is. The only thing I would add is that if you're a downhiller (even in dry conditions) you're better off with discs. Otherwise V's are fine!


    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy
    IMO discs have no more stopping power in DRY conditions than a good set of V brakes. They're heavier and if you already have non-disc wheels you're looking at a very expensive upgarde. I'm happy with the Vs on my 'crosser/commuter (big improvement over even Avid cantis, BTW), and the adventure bike I plan to build up later this year will also be V equipped. However. If you ride in the rain or mud a lot, the difference is night and day. Rim brake performance degrades very quickly once things get sloppy, and disc brake performance generally does not. (Admittely, on one night ride this winter it was raining hard enough to coat my rotors and impede braking performance, but I've found those conditions to be extremely rare. This was a catastrophic downpour - in even a "normal" rainstorm I have no problems). Those of us who ride year round in the Pacific NW run into some of the worst mud and slop imaginable, but with discs and good mud tires we have no worries. NOT true with rim brakes - a year ago I did a really gooey ride near here in Tillamook Forest. Not only did I have a lot of trouble staying in control because my Vs were so marginal in those conditions, but in just 12 miles I wore through 1/3 of my brake pads. It was so bad I had to stop and realign the pads mid-ride, even though I'd just set them up a couple days prior. After that, I swore never again.

    I'm with Keith: go mechanical. Avids in particular are incredibly easy to set up: I find them even easier to maintain and adjust than Vs. Being inclined towards simplicity myself, I personally can't imagine messing around with hydraulics.

    So let me repeat the bottom line. If you ride in mostly or exclusively dry condtions - and don't do extremely long uninterrupted downhills at extremely high speeds - I think discs are a waste of money and weight. If you do ride in wet conditions very much at all though, you're a strong candidate for discs.

  30. #30
    Harrumph
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    How much control...

    do pro's have over what parts they can use. Shimano's disk wheels/brakes/lever-shifters, make them more money than a v-set up. So of course they are going to give disks to the people they sponsor, they like to make money . If you look at the comp/expert/sport classes you’ll find the field a bit more split.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

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