Advice with Stan no tubes sealent ?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    New question here. Advice with Stan no tubes sealent ?

    I was thinking of going tubeless to see what all hubbub is about ?
    I would like to her y-alls coments,thoughs,exprence with Stan's No tube tire sealent system? Also I am aware that not all tires work with system?
    Any feedback would be welcome Thank you very much.

  2. #2

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    I liked it up until I had to change tires and then the fun kicks in...its messy!

    It has its pros and cons like anything, I'd suggest giving it ago and making your own mind up.

    Homebrew recipe for you:

    How to seal your rims and run tubeless with reliability and minimal investment.

    We are not only going to tell you how to seal your rims and run tubeless, but we are also going to tell you how to seal almost any tire to run tubeless. Time involved can be less than thirty minutes per wheel, and costs less than two dollars per wheel.

    Materials you will need:

    Brake clean.
    Nylon reinforced packing tape 3M brand.
    Electrical tape 3M brand super 33 - 3/4in wide
    Scotch bright scouring pad.
    An old tube for the valve stem, use a tube that weighs about 170 grams, this we found provides for a firm but not too firm to seal. We found that you must use a presta valve in order to get a positive seal. Schrader valves will not work properly.
    Liquid latex or molding rubber (this can be found in most craft shops) you can also use a can of fix a flat , which is readily available. The mold builder I use can be found at www.eti-usa.com click on mold builder then on where to purchase.
    Water, or windshield washer solvent for below freezing temperatures. Michelin 22 mm wide semi flexible plastic rim strip weighing 15 grams. This is an option for those who are overly concerned with damaging the seal during tire changing. This also helps with the mounting of many non-tubeless tires. Definitely not for the weight weenies. A schrader to presta valve adapter.

    If you are having problems finding anything call me and I can ship you some.

    After cleaning your rims thoroughly with brake clean and a scotch pad, the next step would be to put the nylon reinforcing tape over the spoke holes. The nylon reinforcing tape only needs to be about 15 mm wide (see photo). Any wider than 15 mm will result in failure because the adhesives used in the packing tape will be dissolved by the ammonia in the latex and fix a flat mixtures. Once the packing tape is covered with the electrical tape it is not exposed to the solvent effects of the latex mixture. In order to cut your tape to 15 mm wide, measure 15 mm with a ruler then start a small slit with a razor blade and the remaining role will continue to unravel at that width. Start to tape between two spoke holes maintaining tension on the tape so as to avoid wrinkling the tape. Make one complete revolution around the rim and let the tape overlap itself approximately two inches. To seat the tape press firmly down with a shop rag and go around the rim in this manner. Now start the electrical tape around the rim in the same manner. Remember to maintain tension during this procedure as to not cause any wrinkles in the tape. Only go around the rim once with each type of tape. This will be an adequate seal and only add about ten grams of weight to the rim with an additional five grams coming from the valve stem. You weight weenies will appreciate sealed rims for only fifteen grams.

    Be sure to clear the hole in the rim for the valve stem. A number two Philips screwdriver works very good for this. Push the hole from the taped valley side of the rim. Clean the valve stem hole with a round file to remove any tape from the inside of the valve stem hole. In order to properly seat the tape you must now mount a tire and tube in the usual way for about ten minutes with fifty pounds of air pressure. The mounted tire and tube will press the tape firmly and evenly insuring a positive seal. It is worth the wait.

    To install the valve stem take a presta valve tube and cut the stem away from the tube to a width of about 10 to 12 mm (see photo). This diameter is crucial because too small means the stem will pull through the rim and too large will not allow the tire bead to seat. Push the valve stem through the rim hole and tighten the collar finger tight while pushing down from the back. You may need to retighten this collar after the tire is inflated. If your rim has a small hole on the inside (presta valve) then you can use an old 90 gram on up ultra light valve stem , the more flexiable the rubber the easier the seal. But if you have a schrader hole or rubber adaptor on the inside then use the 170 gram tube.

    Now you can mount your tire of choice be it tubeless or non-tubeless. Lay the rim horizontal and mount the lower bead of your tire (see photo). Mix a quarter cup of water and one teaspoon of liquid latex and stir till mixed well (this ads about sixty grams). Pour the mixture inside the tire and then mount the final bead. Those riding in subfreezing temperatures can substitute windshield washer fluid in place of water to serve as antifreeze. This should be good to about zero degrees Fahrenheit. We have ridden in ten degree weather and have not experienced any problems with the water mixed solution. We do however suggest that you use the windshield washer solvent to avoid any unforeseen cold weather riding problems. We highly recommend using an air compressor for the first inflation especially when using a non-tubeless tire. Non-tubeless tires may have very porous sidewalls and previous punctures that will be sealed by the liquid latex mixture. Hold the tire vertically while inflating so as not to distort the bead (see photo). Once the bead has seated rotate the tire so the liquid latex mixture can seal any leaks (see photo). Use a soapy solution to check for any air leaks and rotate the tire so the liquid latex can get to these areas and seal them. This may take several minutes and in severe cases may require reinflation. Also check with soap around the valve stem. If it is leaking tighten stem if it does not stop you will have to rotate the tire so the liquid laytex can get to it and seal it. Play with it-you'll get it.

    After mounting and sealing all holes you should spin the tire or better yet ride it . This will coat the inside of the tire and keep on sealing every time you ride. If you have an old tire you do not care about then mount that up tubeless with the 1/4 cup of liquid laytex . After you have it sealed grab a large needle and poke several holes in the tire ,you will be amazed how they're sealed almost instantly.

    The cost savings and advantages of using my system for tubeless rims and tires are many fold. Several of my riding pals and I have ridden sub freezing temperatures with not one problem. I have tried out this system through out the Northeast as well as the Southwest parts of this country. From frozen single track to the slick rock of Moab it has not let me down. With my system you to can enjoy the advantages of tubeless technology with minimal cost or weight gain. My tubeless system will not leak down as compared to the heavier tubeless specific tires that are currently being sold. For instance if you want to run a 380 gram Maxis Minitor tire you can enjoy the weight savings and advantages of a tubeless self-sealing tire system. Your light weight wheel set can be converted to a tubeless set up with only 15 grams of added weight per wheel. Saving hundreds of dollars over purchasing new wheels.

    No need to worry about the dreaded pinch flat. Possibly never having another puncture flat again because of the self-sealing qualities of the liquid latex. You will be able to keep on using your lighter weight tires and not be limited to buying expensive and way heavier tubeless specific tires. The liquid latex can also be used to seal the puncture flats and slow leaks that occurr around the beads of some tubeless tires. As result you will be able to run lower tire pressures gaining more traction and a better ride. Those of you out there who are riding hard tails would really benefit from this.

    It is important to note that not all but many tires will mount up tubeless. For example a tire with a cloth bead will not mount as easy as a tire with a rubberized bead. A loose fitting tire will be harder to inflate that a tighter fitting one. The plastic Michelin rim strip will make the inflation of any tire and rim combination easier. Using a little squirt bottle with water or windex on the bead during inflation will aid in the bead sealing. It is very important that the entire bead must be between valve stem and the rim on both sides or the tire will not take air. After the initial mounting all subsequent mountings will be easier. We are often asked, "what happens if I get a flat on the Trail?" Normally you would use the tube you carry in your pack, or do like most riders and bum a tube from one of your pals, because they always carry one. Hell use their pump too.

  3. #3
    Medium?
    Reputation: Fast Eddy's Avatar
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    Check this out too. Seems pretty good.


  4. #4

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    If Nikh didn't cover it...

    try this thread.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=4032

    Scroll a ways down and see my homemade sealant recipe, which works at temps just barely above freezing, and ought to work well at all other times, too...

    I think we beat about every possible arguement to death on that one, some more belligerently than others (uh...myself?). If there's a message I'd like to get through, especially to all Ollie's fans, it's that 'anything is worth trying once'. For every horror story that accompany every tubeless question, I've got 500 success stories; you just never hear about it when it works, and mine have never failed which is much more than I can say for tubes!

  5. #5
    Bike Junky
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    I spent the entire year with NoTubes. During a 12 hour race, they saved me a ton of flats. The course was extremely rocky with very sharp rocks. At one point, I did puncture the tire with a small rock. The rock went all the way through the tire and broke off inside. The hole then sealed within a couple of revolutions. The next lap, I did stop and use my floor pump to top off the air that I had lost, but I was good to go for the remaining 6 hours.

    It was a little annoying to hear the rock inside the tire though!

    Stan's NoTubes is a bit messy, and is not totally without problems. I burped a tire on a downhill section during a 24 hour race. I couldn't get the tire to seal again against the rim to save my life. I simply threw in a tube. Later during the night, I dinged the rear rim to the point that the tire would not seal. I finished the race using tubes without any big deal.

    So, now I carry an extra tube along with me just in case. Overall, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives... I'm going tubeless again this year.

  6. #6
    ballbuster
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    It's pretty cool....

    Until it isn't, then it's a total PITA.

    I did a homebrew tubeless on my winter tires, (non-freezing climate) and it worked great until I punctured my tire. After loosing a bunch of air, it finally sealed with like 15 psi left. I stopped to fill it back up using my tire pump, and it started leaking again, then it stopped. Then I got back on the bike, and it started leaking again under weight.

    Okay, enough of this mess. I put my spare tube in after cleaning out a bunch of green goup with a rag I happened to have in my Camekbak, and continued.

    The problem was prolly my sealant formula, and the fact that the trail was wet and muddy. The wet probably kept the sealant from drying on the outside.

    The plus sides are that you can save some weight (which is barely anything over LunarLite tubes), you drop your rolling resistnce by a tad, and your flats (sealant formula permitting) seal themselves. You gotta ask yourself if that is worth all the hassle. For my winter tires, it wasn't, but for my Pythons, I'll give it another go. Pythons seem to seal better than Smokes anyway.

    I'd say go for it, as long as you are willing to experiment. I would suggest doing this and riding on it a few times solo, just so you don't screw up your bud's rides. You can count on a ginat ration of hsit if it fails on you, with your buds calling you a bike tweak and all.



    Quote Originally Posted by Johny Rotten
    I was thinking of going tubeless to see what all hubbub is about ?
    I would like to her y-alls coments,thoughs,exprence with Stan's No tube tire sealent system? Also I am aware that not all tires work with system?
    Any feedback would be welcome Thank you very much.

  7. #7
    singlespeed smash brother
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    I ran stans for 8 months. Every time it failed I needed to put a tube in because it couldn't be fixed on the trail. It failed catastrophicly 6 times. The last 4 times both front and rear went in a 24 hr race twice. Thats when I'd had enough of the mess and frustration. In the end I just couldn't trust the system to perform better than tubes. Mostly the failures were as a result of burping the tyre and loosing enough sealant so that it wouldn't seal again. I also pinched holes in the tyre near the bead that wouldn't seal. I was using irc mythos kevlar bead tyres. I also suffered from a valve stem failure and inumerable blocked valves. I recon it was wort a try because I loved it at first but it's not for me.

  8. #8
    Trail rider and racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinboy
    I ran stans for 8 months. Every time it failed I needed to put a tube in because it couldn't be fixed on the trail. It failed catastrophicly 6 times. The last 4 times both front and rear went in a 24 hr race twice. Thats when I'd had enough of the mess and frustration. In the end I just couldn't trust the system to perform better than tubes. Mostly the failures were as a result of burping the tyre and loosing enough sealant so that it wouldn't seal again. I also pinched holes in the tyre near the bead that wouldn't seal. I was using irc mythos kevlar bead tyres. I also suffered from a valve stem failure and inumerable blocked valves. I recon it was wort a try because I loved it at first but it's not for me.
    That sounds like an utter nightmare indeed.

    I gotta have great luck, I am on my second year of Stans and love it alot. I use the Eclipse tubeless strip and works amazingly good. It saved my ass in a race, and saved me alot during races and regular rides.

    Trevor!

  9. #9
    singlespeed smash brother
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor!
    That sounds like an utter nightmare indeed.

    I gotta have great luck, I am on my second year of Stans and love it alot. I use the Eclipse tubeless strip and works amazingly good. It saved my ass in a race, and saved me alot during races and regular rides.

    Trevor!
    Yeah. The only time it failed for me was at races, which, because it was a pain to fix put me out of the race. I have a feeling that the loose kevlar bead on the mythos tyres is partly to blame for my woes, but the constanly blocked valves was too much.

  10. #10
    The Top Cap Guy
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    I've ran the Stans No Tubes on my Mavic X317's for 2 years now and love it. I even use the sealant in my X3.1 UST rims on my other wheels.... My last flat was 2 years ago and I double pinch flatted (once then again 5 minutes later)... that's what made me convert to tubeless...

    So first I ran just the Stans on my X317's with tubeless tires... worked perfectly... then after a few months I tried a set of Schwalbe tires which were not UST.. and they were a PAIN.. never got them to seal well at all.... sold the tires and went back teh UST tires.... bought another set of wheels and went UST (previously mentioned X3.1's) - ran Stans in them with UST tires... no flats.

    It's been 2 years and I've not had any flats... I love it... I mainly would get 2-4 flats a year and they would be thorns.... maybe I would have been pinch flatting more too- because I've also started running lower pressures too....

    Just about a month ago I switched the tires off the X317/Stans wheels to Panaracer TrailRakers - and they are not UST... the rear tire aired up and sealed the first time.. giving me hope... .the front aired up and leaked down over not for the first 3 nights... but I beat it ont the 4th try... sealed up great now too.... I guess patience was the key with NON UST tires and no tubes....

    I run Stans and love it - I don't mind switching tires with the sealant in them (as long as I'm home and have my shop sink nearby... out on the trail having to instal a tube - that thought scares me a little... but I'll risk it!

    Later
    FF
    "If I'm leading, I'm bleeding."

  11. #11
    SS Grrrrrrrl
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    Stan's is the best!

    I've had Stan's installed on 3 bikes since April of 2003. Not a single flat since then! I'm a pretty light rider (130 lbs) and I am able to run really low tire pressures -- 26 lbs in the front and 32 lbs in the rear. Traction is greatly improved versus a tubed tire. The tires simply feel more supple and grippy using Stan's. If for some reason there was a catastrophic failure, one can always plop a tube in there to get home.

    You have to be somewhat mechanically inclined and not be discouraged by the fact they do require some infrequent maintenance (add some sealant every couple of months) after the initial setup. However, I am of the opinion that I'd rather do bike maintenance in the garage than on the trail. It takes about 30 minutes to seal up your first tire, but after that the learning curve should kick in and it should only take about 10 minutes to set a wheel up properly.

    So far I've run it on Mavic 317 and 517 rims with Continental Vertical Pro's and various models of Schwalbe tires. I do think the system is rim/tire combo dependent. There is a Specialized Team tire collecting dust in the garage because I was never able to get it to inflate (too bad for that tire!) I can say for sure that the combos mentioned above will work... and if they don't, the problem is with the installer... not the system.

    If you're just starting out, I would recommend buying the Stan's kit. Save the homebrew stuff for later if it really becomes cost prohibitive to buy Stan's goodies. Read all the directions before you start and follow them to the "T" and you shouldn't have any problems.

    Happy Trails!

  12. #12
    Keep on Rockin...
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    Pros and Cons...

    I had used Stan's pretty much since the stuff came out and have logged alot of miles with the setup.

    PROS:
    -The setup will give you all the benefits of tubless (which I won't go into).
    -Cheap to try.

    CONS:
    -Messy.
    -Real pain if you want to swap tires.
    -Tires can burp and loose air (esp if doing drops).
    -Real pain if you want to swap tires.
    -Tires can roll off rim and cause air loss (seems more likely with low pressures).
    -Real pain if you want to swap tires.
    -Messy to reinstall tube on the trail if needed.
    -Some tires work better than others with Stan's.

    OVERALL:
    Will give you the performance advantage of tubless tires, at a low cost, but is a big hassle. I've since stopped using them due to the hassle. I really liked running the lower pressures of tubless but it just was not worth the hassle. The next wheelset I build will likely be with tubless rims.

    Mike

  13. #13

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    Tastes great,less filling!

    Quote Originally Posted by Johny Rotten
    I was thinking of going tubeless to see what all hubbub is about ?
    I would like to her y-alls coments,thoughs,exprence with Stan's No tube tire sealent system? Also I am aware that not all tires work with system?
    Any feedback would be welcome Thank you very much.
    I've had great results with the no tube set up.I started using it about a year ago.I like the low pressures you can run,just be careful not to go too low or you could dent your rims,I have!Not one puncture flat yet!I did get a flat once because I forgot to add fluid and it dried up so keep that in mind. When I took the tire off I pulled out several giant thorns(1/8x1"long) that had been sealed off by the fluid,and evidence of many other smaller punctures being sealed off.The ends of the thorns had been worn off by the ground!The installation requires some getting used to but once you do it a few times you'll be fine.It really helps to do the installation on a truing stand or on one of those roof rack fork mounts bolted to a piece of wood and it will be alot easier inflating with a compressor.Don't install the first time when you're in a hurry the night before a big ride.Don't forget the soapy water step!Follow all the instructions carefully and you'll be alright.
    The one drawback I see is trailside fixes.I cut a sidewall in D'ville(rockier than hell),No tubes (or anything else)will prevent that.I had a tube and spare rimstrip luckily and was able to fix it but it was really messy with the goop and the dusty trail.Its definately worth it to run heavier tires if you're intotechnical trails or long epics.With the no tubes you have less rolling resistance and with larger meatier tires you can run much lower pressure.I use 2.3s for the technical stuff and wouldn't trust a tire much less than 700 grams,but if your terrain isn't very rough you can run small light tires.I run 25-35lbs pressure even on small tires.If you ride epics always carry rimstrip, tubes,a tire boot to repair the sidewalls when they rip and some rags to clean your hands.I carry this stuff even on short rides because I hate walking and portaging.

  14. #14

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    Stan's is awesome!

    I have used it for about six months now, and the pain of the mess putting the tire on is way better than changing flats out on the trail. (I have had one flat on the trail in the last 6 months, and that was on a demo bike at InterBike.) Plus it is great being able to crawl up ledges with low PSI. You can actually make your own goo to save money also. As for getting it to bead up, if a pump won't work (probably won't) use an air compresor, if that dosn't work (might not) use CO2, it is instant. I'd say go for the Stan's!
    The Mountain Bike Guy from Joplin MO

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