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  1. #1
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    32 or 36 hole

    Do you prefer 32 or 36 hole wheels? I'm currently running 36 hole wheels and was wondering if it is worth the weight savings and strength to go down to 32.

  2. #2
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    Check the wheel board

    Quote Originally Posted by cham666
    Do you prefer 32 or 36 hole wheels? I'm currently running 36 hole wheels and was wondering if it is worth the weight savings and strength to go down to 32.
    Page shiggy there (or here). I've had shiggy build many wheels for me over the years. I'm 6'3", 190#. His advice for me was to go 36 hole with light spokes. He said he could build a wheel this way that would be as light as a 32 hole wheel utilizing heavier gauge spokes, except the 36 hole wheel would be stronger due to less distance between spoke holes at the rim.

    I'm amazed at how strong the 36 hole/thin spoke wheels have proved as well as how little maintenace or adjustment they've required. I've ridden 'em pretty hard at times; XC only but pretty hard nonetheless.

    --Sparty
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  3. #3
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    It depends...

    Quote Originally Posted by cham666
    Do you prefer 32 or 36 hole wheels? I'm currently running 36 hole wheels and was wondering if it is worth the weight savings and strength to go down to 32.
    It's not as simple as 32 or 36. 32 spoked wheels aren't always lighter than 36. Don't take my word for it, I would go to someone far more knowledgable about wheels:

    http://speeddream.com/tech_talk.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Page shiggy there (or here). I've had shiggy build many wheels for me over the years. I'm 6'3", 190#. His advice for me was to go 36 hole with light spokes. He said he could build a wheel this way that would be as light as a 32 hole wheel utilizing heavier gauge spokes, except the 36 hole wheel would be stronger due to less distance between spoke holes at the rim.

    I'm amazed at how strong the 36 hole/thin spoke wheels have proved as well as how little maintenace or adjustment they've required. I've ridden 'em pretty hard at times; XC only but pretty hard nonetheless.

    --Sparty
    What I said...err... Sparty said!
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  5. #5
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    I run a 28h front and a 32h rear. What (I think) is more important than 36 vs. 32 is butted vs. straight gauge spokes. Butted spokes can take much higher tension, and thus can build a stronger wheel. I use 2.0/1.6mm spokes. Let's see what Shiggy has to say about this.....

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    It should be noted that I weigh 120#.

  7. #7
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    Only thing I'm going to say here (as I comtemplate what type of new wheels to build up for my SS), is that I built up some Hope XC hub/Mavic XC717 Disk rim/DT Swill 1.8-1.5 butted spoke 36-hole wheels for my XC hardtail a while back, and (I've built wheels before when I worked in a shop), the more spokes, the easier it can be to true because the rim is anchored in more places and since there is less deflection force on each spoke because there are more spokes, the truer your 36-spoke wheels should stay for the same reason. However, I tried to be a total weight weenie with those wheels and will probably have top go back and replace the aluminum nips with brass ones. I have pulled some out and stripped others.

    The worst thing about 36-spoke wheels is that not all the rims I'd like to use come in 36-hole.

    Cheers,

    Dave
    Just Passing Through: eatin' dirt & crappin' dust

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    ...Butted spokes can take much higher tension, and thus can build a stronger wheel. I use 2.0/1.6mm spokes. Let's see what Shiggy has to say about this.....
    Not true. A thick straight gauge spoke can handle higher tensions than a butted spoke.

    Butted spokes are more fatigue resistant and build a more durable (can be different than stronger) wheel.
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  9. #9
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    depends how you treat them...

    My data... 6' 180# with gear on...

    street wheels... 28h f/r, Bullseye rear hub, Winners front. Both bomb proof for the application.

    trail wheels... Cronometro (generation 2 ~1996) wheelset.
    front...20h Sun CR17A, Titanium spokes w/Crono hub
    Rear...28h Sun CR17A, Stainless straight, w/Crono hub, Ti axle

    The trail wheels are now know as "Cane Creek" wheels.

    I am not kind to these wheels and they have not suffered any flat spots or broken spokes. One thing to consider is your riding style. If you lack the ability to "float" over rough spots or obtacles you will damage any wheel no matter the cost or the spoke count.

  10. #10
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Not true. A thick straight gauge spoke can handle higher tensions than a butted spoke.

    Butted spokes are more fatigue resistant and build a more durable (can be different than stronger) wheel.
    I thought you might shoot that down.... I'm sure you know more on the topic than I do. Not going to argue this one.

  11. #11
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    what size wheel are we talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Page shiggy there (or here). I've had shiggy build many wheels for me over the years. I'm 6'3", 190#. His advice for me was to go 36 hole with light spokes. He said he could build a wheel this way that would be as light as a 32 hole wheel utilizing heavier gauge spokes, except the 36 hole wheel would be stronger due to less distance between spoke holes at the rim.

    I'm amazed at how strong the 36 hole/thin spoke wheels have proved as well as how little maintenace or adjustment they've required. I've ridden 'em pretty hard at times; XC only but pretty hard nonetheless.

    --Sparty
    so...

    does any of that change if the wheel in question is a 29er?

    here's a more specific question:

    both salsa delgado cross rims and surly new disc hubs come in 32- or 36-hole flavors. what would be the most appropriate build for a non-weight weenie, 215-lb dude on a steel SS who rides lots of rocks and roots with occasional agility and frequent clumsiness? no hucking. no drops.

    quality wheelhouse puts together the 32-hole hubs and rims with 2.0 mm 14 gauge spokes (i think). would a guy like the one described above put that build on his bike and feel like he's got reasonably beefy wheels?

    also: for us wheelbuilding and physics idiots, can someone explain the difference between durability and strength in this context?

  12. #12
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    I can't...

    I can't answer many of your questions because I'm no expert on wheels. But I can answer your first one... in this case it doesn't change if the wheel in question is a 29er because in this case the wheel in question *IS* a 29er.

    Sorry. I should have stated that in the first place.

    Remember way back in the early days of mountain biking when Keith Bontrager used to roll 700c rims down to 26" diameter? I guess we can deduce from this that a 36-hole 29er wheel is comparable in strength to a 32-hole 26" wheel. Well, no we probably can't, but at least from this point the comparisons can begin.

    We now return you to your more knowledgeable experts in the field of wheelbuilding...

    --Sparty

    Quote Originally Posted by godsey
    so...

    does any of that change if the wheel in question is a 29er?

    here's a more specific question:

    both salsa delgado cross rims and surly new disc hubs come in 32- or 36-hole flavors. what would be the most appropriate build for a non-weight weenie, 215-lb dude on a steel SS who rides lots of rocks and roots with occasional agility and frequent clumsiness? no hucking. no drops.

    quality wheelhouse puts together the 32-hole hubs and rims with 2.0 mm 14 gauge spokes (i think). would a guy like the one described above put that build on his bike and feel like he's got reasonably beefy wheels?

    also: for us wheelbuilding and physics idiots, can someone explain the difference between durability and strength in this context?
    disciplesofdirt.org

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    We get old because we quit riding.

  13. #13
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    Hey Sparty,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus
    I can't answer many of your questions because I'm no expert on wheels. But I can answer your first one... in this case it doesn't change if the wheel in question is a 29er because in this case the wheel in question *IS* a 29er.

    Sorry. I should have stated that in the first place.

    Remember way back in the early days of mountain biking when Keith Bontrager used to roll 700c rims down to 26" diameter? I guess we can deduce from this that a 36-hole 29er wheel is comparable in strength to a 32-hole 26" wheel. Well, no we probably can't, but at least from this point the comparisons can begin.

    We now return you to your more knowledgeable experts in the field of wheelbuilding...

    --Sparty
    Not to change the subject but I actually have one of those "re-rolled" rims. I consider it a cherished momento of the past. And I think He used 27" not 700c. (I may be wrong?)
    Last edited by gearless; 10-20-2005 at 08:44 PM. Reason: add to

  14. #14
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    My 2 cents is this.

    I wanted to go 36 for all my bikes, but it just seems that getting light weight (ie 717 disc or Open Pro for road) in 36 hole versions is hard. Sure I could special order them, but I don't want to have rims that are harder to come by when I travel. Also there seems to be a trend towards less spokes, so in a few years it might get harder still.

    Added to this, I've not had any problems with my 32's on any bike. So if my current 32's take my weight and riding style, then no need to change.

    If you're doing a 29'er, then I would think 36 would be adviseable (as you have a greater span between the spokes). If you have a 29'er you also probably are used to using a few parts that arent stocked in every shop (forks, rims, tires etc), so its not like you could have taken your bike to some remote place and found all the parts in any bike shop.

    I will say I use butted (DT's these days) in all my wheel builds with brass nipples. To me it just seems such a short sighted thing to cut costs on any part of a wheel. If you use some cheap rim, but a good hub and spokes then you'll just be rebuilding it sooner ... but I'm really getting off the topic here.

    -Chris

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