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I concede

4K views 68 replies 16 participants last post by  ou2mame 
#1 ·
Ok, I admit I took the cheap approach, and after only a week with my Walmart Mongoose I'm returning it. It's a nice bike, sorta, it has some stuff going for it. But. The fork is real crap, mainly on the rebound side of things. I have a lot of years on dirt bikes (motorcycles), so I do know how a telescopic fork should handle itself. The seals on this thing are already weeping. I can live with the crummy rebound (who am I fooling; no I cant). The bike is fitted with cable disc brakes, F n R. They work, sorta. No better than the old center-pull rim brakes on my 25 year old Jamis though. And the front one started squeaking badly this morning. I came home and adjusted it, and it's performing much better, but now I see the next thing to break (probably sooner rather than later) will be the lever perches. And adjusters. The crankset looks cool, but has internal bearings and the lock rings were already coming loose. It's all forged steel, so it's a brick, yet it looks weak. The shifting is OK on the bike, and I like the ratios. The front DR is junk, the rear is Shimano, but also kinda junk. The axle and wheel hardware seem well made, but the bike feels fragile, and I'm no lightweight (5'9", 230lbs). I think the aluminum frame is plenty stout though, and while I'm not planning to toss the thing off cliffs, but I'm hard on equipment. Most of my riding at this time is in town, on pavement, but I want to get out and ride some trails at some point. I figure I could replace items as they break with good quality components, but in the end (about 6 months from now) I'd have the nicest Mongoose Seek'r (dumb name) on the planet and about $1000 invested in the bike. I also have concerns about fitting good-quality componentry to the dated BB shell, headset, etc. So I'm looking at better bikes already. I know I need to go ride them, but I want to ask the forum member's opinion of a couple makes/models that I know are readily available to me at my LBS's. The model I'm really enamored by is the new Specialized Pitch 650b. If the Mongoose debacle taught me anything it is that I like the 27.5 inch wheel/tire size, and that good disc brakes are a thing of true beauty. I have always been drawn to Specialized bikes; I just think they have such a serious, no-nonsense look and style. The other brand I'm looking at is Diamondback. I like the Axis models a lot, and the Overdrives look nice too. Anyone have experience with Diamondbacks? My local shops also carry Treks and Giants, but it seems everyone around here rides one or the other of those 2 brands, and frankly, they seem overpriced to me compared to the Specs and DBs I'm looking at. Another brand that is locally available is Fuji. My first choice, just viewing them online, is the Spec Pitch. Any info/insight/experience anyone here can offer on any of the bikes I've mentioned here is welcome. Or maybe you know of something from out in left field. I'm looking to stay around $600, and want an HT-FrS frameset. Discs are mandatory, and while hydraulics would be nice, they are not a must. I also do like the 650b/27.5" size. Also, while I do want to support my LBS's, does anyone have experience with performancebike.com? They've got some killer prices. Thank you very much in advance.
 
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#2 ·
First this is first GO RIDE THEM lol!!! Thats the most important thing.

Spec, Trek, Giant all have the same prices for equivalent bikes (unless on sale). All about speced the exact same as well. Comes down to which bike feels better.

Diamondbacks I dont see as bad bikes 100x better than walmart bikes mostly. Kind of a mid point between walmart and name brands I guess is best explanation. Again comes to the point of how you like the ride and fit over the others. And not sure if Diamond back warranty/service can touch the others but thats something you need to ask your LBS about. But I doubt frame will be any issue (your 40lbs lighter than me now, over 130lbs lighter than when I started riding 2 years ago) unless you try to do things beyond design of the bike. Which goes for any brand. If you can get a better speced bike for the same price and support/have support of LBS, win/win.

I will tell you, as many will, when it comes to buying a bike, unless you dont care about warranty, service or anything like that, BUY FROM LBS!!! I have a crap job ($!2/hr), wife (works but makes less not sure how with what she does but whatever) and 2 kids, bills, etc. Bike itself and major upgrade purchase (as well as other things) of Forks I bought via my LBS. Service and support matter to me because 2 things I care about most, forks and frame, I know will be taken care of correctly and quickly. PLus any questions or help I need, im covered no issues, no arguments.
 
#3 ·
Thanks tigris99! I know, I need to ride them, but I'm kinda lookin for jumping-off-points right now. I hope I love the Pitch, because it's in my price range and I just love the look of it. But I might hate it when I climb on one. That's why I'm trying to look at all the options available. I would prefer to utilize a LBS. The DBs are being sold at my local Sports Authority, which to me is far better than Walmart or most other retail "dealers". We have two major, private LBS's in the area, and I'd like to patronize them for many of the reasons you mention. Service, knowledge, reliability, etc. I'm not sure SA could provide that, and while I think our local Scheels (selling Fuji and I think Treks, maybe some Specs) can provide competent service, they don't need my money as much as the local private shops.
Your view of the Diamondbacks is about how I perceived them too. Far better than the Walmart bikes, but not quite as cutting-edge or high end as the others. For me it mostly comes down to comfort, durability, and very good quality. I think the DBs could hit all those marks, but for the same price of what could arguably be a better bike in a Spec, Trek, GT, etc. I wont know until I can ride them.
You sound like a big dude. From your post it sounds like MTBs have had a major (positive) impact on your health and life. I'm looking for the same effect, and your post is inspiring to me. Thank you for the advice.
 
#4 ·
Diamondback is like the bike company that never was.. They are almost a real company but their bikes in the lower price range (500) are bricks. I see them at ***** and they're kinda eh. I was at the lbs yesterday and saw some decent sales, but at 750 on sale, you're getting a Cannondale with a dart fork and that's pretty much as good as the 500 dollar diamondback. I would look at the components and see which bike gets you more bike for the money and ride it and see what you think. Mainly look at the fork fork and wheels.. The rd and shifters are cheap enough to replace at a later date but having a good fork and decent brakes definitely helps. The better the wheels the more solid the bike will feel too because they won't flex as much, especially the bigger the wheels get.

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#5 ·
If you can avoid a Suntour 'X' series or RST fork you will be ahead. You will fit on a 29 so the physics for rollover is undeniable. No matter what hype Giant is slinging. Their 29s don't sell because they haven't updated their steep head tube angle geo like Scott and Trek.
As a last resort an XCM or XCR with hydraulic speed lockout has some kind of rebound damping. The other versions are pogo sticks.
 
#6 ·
I have worked at Performance. it's a joke. I was embarrassed to work there after a month. don't buy bikes from them. good prices on small parts and accessories to be sure, so you can/ should buy stuff like that when you can find deals, but that's feeding the beast. maybe avoid that too.
 
#8 ·
thanks mack. I get what you're saying about feeding the beast. That's why I asked...if they were a kick-ass outfit, I'd feel OK buying from them as opposed to my LBS, but I'd rather go here, ebay, or LBS for parts. And as far as buying a bike, I have a hard time buying a bike somewhere else then taking it to my LBS for service. It's still money in their pockets, but you have to be able to look the guy in the eye and say "please fix my crap bike that I didn't buy from you". Not cool.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the advice guys. What ou2mame says about the DBs is kinda what I've noticed too. It looks like they build a decent bike, and at an OK price-point, but for $50-$100 more I can get a Specialized, Trek, or even Cannondale that is markedly a better bike. Thanks for pointing out which pieces to really look at, to both ou2mame and eb1888. The forks are my main concern, simply because for the cost of upgrading a fork, I could almost buy another bike, so to me it makes sense to slap a quality fork on it from the get-go. The problem I'm seeing is that the bikes in my price range all have what I assume are "X" series forks....XCT's and XCM's. In fact the only forks I see on most of the bikes I'm looking at are Suntour X's, but many do have lockouts. What function does the lockout perform? I'm assuming it's like high-speed damping to allow the fork to handle obstacles like whoops?
I might try a 29; I had assumed they were too tall for me, but I suppose it all depends on a specific frame's standover. What frame size (S-M-L) would you recommend for me? I have a 33" inseam if that matters.
Pre-ride, I'm still leaning toward the Pitch 650B but the Hardrock looks like a good value, especially with the Sport Disc 29 package. My LBS has them listed at $650-$700 which is a little out of my budget, but not far. All it says for fork info is that its a Suntour 80mm travel with lockout. It also has hydro brakes, which I like. F & R DRs are Altus and Aceras, respectively.
I'm busy tomorrow selling a motorcycle, which will hopefully allow me to buy a bike this next week. My days off are Thurs-Fri, so I'm hoping to spend a day bike shopping and hope to come home with a new ride. Please keep the comments and advice coming! Thanks.
 
#10 ·
What I did was get an epicon off eBay for 200 bucks. That fork will put perform anything in its price range, and keep up with forks double it's price range. It's the only decent fork at 200 bucks.

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Ya, I think that's the route i'll have to go. I'm confidant that any of the SR Suntour forks on any of these bikes will be infinitely better than the crap bolted to the front of that Mongoose. My biggest ***** with it so far is the rebound...it has a hard "thunk" when you jack the front end up, and that motion causes me to loose upward momentum. To my way of thinking from riding motocross bikes, rebound should help you lift the front end, not the other way around. It'll cause a wreck before too long. Not to worry; the bike is going back in the next day or 2.
 
#11 ·
In honesty, I'm embarrassed at the mistake I made by buying the 'goose. I'm not "that" guy...while I usually cant afford the top-of-the-line stuff in whatever endeavor I'm jumping into, I do try to seek out the best quality stuff my pocketbook will allow. I knew better when I bought that bike, but I was seduced by the Walmart curse. It doesn't happen to me often as I avoid Walmart like the plague, but I did succumb to it this time. Never again.
 
#12 ·
I had a Wally World Mongoose years ago. It was a heavy bike, had the crappiest fork I've ever encountered (hopping off a curb would cause it to violently bottom out... the "adjustable tension" was non-existent) the stock seat was a medieval torture device with just enough padding to be considered a cruel joke, and it really enjoyed popping the chain off for no good reason, usually if I was in traffic biking my way to campus. However, I was a broke college student, and it was really the best I could afford. I learned to like it for what it was, but I knew that it wasn't anything I could rely on beyond paved roads or a VERY light trail. In a moment of insanity, I looked at the possibility of just getting a better front fork, and discovered that a RockShox Judy would cost pretty much the same as I bought the bike for. I conceded that it was a low-end bike, and that I'd just ride it until it broke and hope I could afford to buy a better one when that happened. It was stolen before anything really failed or broke on me, but it took me years to finally get around to getting a new bike to replace it.

Anyway, I guess my point is that you're not the first person to make the less-than-advisable decision to buy a Mongoose. (I won't say "mistake" because they're probably okay bikes for the casual consumer who just wants to go from A to B on a bike that at least looks like it cost more than a couple hundred $$) Mongoose knows at least how to make their bikes look nice (I remember thinking mine looked pretty sharp in red & silver) and from a visual standpoint, they can be very appealing.

I'd say there's nothing to be embarrassed about. You learned a few things in terms of what you need in a bike, and a lot about what buying a bike made from cheap low-end components will get you. It's one thing to have someone tell you "that fork is garbage" but another to actually ride it and FEEL exactly why it's garbage. Now when you test ride another bike, you can actually appreciate the better quality components, because you've seen/felt firsthand what cheap ones are like. If nothing else, the experience has probably made you better prepared to shop for a bike and be able to weed out some of the lower-end options.
 
#14 ·
What south of nowhere says is my situation almost to a T, except that I'm now an old fart and have had enough years on bikes to know the difference. When she was in college my sister had a Trek, and I'd swipe it for late night rides. I felt the difference a truly quality bike made. I loved that Trek. I've never been without a bike, but I've never owned a really good bike. I have my old Jamis Dakota, and I had a decent KHS years ago, but they were both pawn shop purchases and mostly worn out by the time I got them. I think the ideology that if you have a crappy bike you wont ride much applies to me to a certain extent.
I'm also in a position of trying to find a quality bike for my wife at the same time. I failed to mention that at the same time I bought the Mongoose I bought a Schwinn for my wife. She has ridden it once and we confided to each other yesterday that neither of us is pleased with our purchase. The Schwinn looks like a better machine than the 'goose, but she doesn't like it. Unlike me, she knows the value of a good bike. She has owned Giants, Treks, and even a Cannondale.
To me, being a tightass, even spending 5-600 bucks on a bike seems like too much, and the thought that such a bike might require upgrades is ridiculous, but I understand that's the reality. In my world (childhood) a bicycle cost $100 at the hardware store. When a friend in junior high bought a tricked-out Haro freestyle bike for $600, I thought it was insane. Since then I've of course come to understand and appreciate why this equipment is so expensive, but I'm still trying to undo 30 years of thinking. When I think of the enjoyment I'll get coupled with the health benefits, it seems like a bargain.
 
#17 ·
cost per mile appeals to my frugal nature, but for some reason i've never viewed bikes in that light. I should, since more and more i want to be riding to work. I only have a 4-mile round trip commute, so it both makes sense to ride my bike, but at the same time seems pointless if you get my meaning. everything in my town is easily within riding distance, except perhaps some trails, but even those should exist down by the river between 3-6 miles away.
I'm guessing i'll want a medium 27.5/650b. I keep hearing about the smoothness of the 29ers, and i'll try one out, but I think the 650b is a great compromise. BTW, why are they called '650b's? just curious.
 
#19 ·
Definitely keep ur options open even in bike size, lbs can get u on a couple sizes etc. Many older notions that I have literally had to argue with ppl (family and friends) over seat height and such else don't apply. Had several ask me how i could possibly get on a bike that I couldn't barely touch the ground when on the seat. Told then straight up I used to think the same thing, then I raised it up close to where it should be and instant improvement on many levels. Lbs guys can get u fitted to a proper size bike (though may feel weird at first but u get used to it quickly and like quality of a bike, u realize what uve been missing)

Go ride a few, dont rush the choice. Looks matter cause ur the one on the bike, gotta like looking at it, but even try to keep that out of your mind when test riding.

Example, I was out handing fliers to lbs for imba take a kid mtbing day (my local club is hostig it, im coordinating the whole thing). I own all treks. Saw new trek fat bikes in at trek dealer. Farley 6 and farley 8 with bontrager tires and bluto fork... Rode a guys specialized fatboy (comp I think, lower level of the 2) a few weeks ago for a couple mins.

Farley 8 rode like ****!!! I hated it! New bontrager fat tires have self steer from hell!!! I about went on my face cause it was harsh and wasn't ready for it and was at low speed, specialized was so much nicer to ride!!! And lbs even let me make quick fit adjustments where as specialized I didn't adjust anything and had 50lbs on the guy. Ya im looking at fatties, going fatty shopping with end of yr bonus lol.

But that tells u how a simple matter of tread type and little geometry differences can be hate or love of a bike. So ride everything u can in ur budget. Forks can suck once u hit a trail but deals that will be showing up over the next few months for off season will fix that problem quickly.
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#22 ·
Self steer is caused by tire psi, not tire. Any fat bike tire will self steer at a low psi, and no fat bike tire will self steer at a high psi. So i wouldn't blame the bike or the tires for that matter.

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Actually, you'd be surprised how much tire profile can affect handling, regardless of pressure. It definitely is noticeable between different models/styles, particularly when going from a very rounded to a very squared off profile, and from softer to harder compounds, etc.

OP, your best bang for the buck is going to be a used 26" bike. Most of the wheel size mumbo-jumbo is marketing BS. People have been (and many still are) riding faster, farther, and on far more technical terrain than it is likely most of us will ever even walk over, let alone ride, on 26" wheels for decades, and they work fine. Don't believe the hype.
 
#21 ·
I own a 2014 Diamondback response xe a few months old and the bike is awesome it has its pros and cons just like any bike but the frame is solid can take a beating and keep on taking one. The components are not the best but heck is wait till the bike goes on sale you'll score because the money you save you can use on new better components on the bike. They have an awesome warranty and I keep in touch with one of the warranty techs!
 
#29 ·
Thanks for this info Elliott. I've not ruled-out the DBs........it might happen that I love them and hate the Specialized or Treks and go for them. I cant remember what models are available here, but I know they had some hardtails that looked nice. The componentry on the DBs doesn't look much different than what I'm seeing on bikes like the Pitch or Hardrock.
 
#26 ·
Why buy new? CL, PB and a host of other places have loads of great bikes at a fraction of original cost.

People buy bikes and get bored of them long before they wear out and that's a great thing for others.

And you won't be paying 5-10% or more in sales tax.

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I'm looking there too, but haven't found much yet, plus I would like a warranty, etc. Sales tax is a non-issue; I live in Montana...we don't have it.
 
#28 ·
The goose felt fragile because of the crappy single wall wheels. The big brands also sell some cheap "mountain" bikes with the same type components as the goose. Those are not deusigned for trail use.

Try riding the three different wheel sizes. Don't buy because someone else prefers one over the others.

The best value is usually a recent model used bike.
 
#33 ·
Those wheels...get this...were freaking plastic! I've heard of them on Wally bikes but I thought mine were alloy. Nope...returned them this morning! The Schwinn and 'goose are gone and I've got $400 to put toward my new wheels.
I scanned the local CL and came up with the following:
11 hardrock for $420
13 hardrock for $375
cannondale m700 (year unknown) for $200
an 05 Norco VPS A-line for $700
a GT Avalanche (year unknown) for $350
a Jamis Dakota (year unknown) 15" XC for $200

There are also a few nice DH FS bikes, but they are out of my price range and not what I'm after. I have not ruled out the Diamonbacks...they look like great bikes to me. The biggest drawback in my case is that they are not sold by my LBS...they are at sports auth. That doesn't mean its a deal-breaker, but I'd prefer to support the LBSs.
 
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