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Worth upgrading?

995 views 21 replies 11 participants last post by  baraant 
#1 ·
I'm really new to this sport, I just bought a Rockhopper comp disc about three and a half months ago that I've put about three hundred miles on so far.
The bike is the M4 aluminum frame with the Tora 318 fork, decent rims that are strong and light (Sun DS2XC) But the dérailleurs and shifters are mid grade Shimano, Deore shifters and Deore front der, LX rear der. I hate the way the thing shifts, at first I thought it was just me but now I've ridden a couple other bikes and a friend rode mine and we've decided it's not me. I bent the front dérailleur in a crash the other day so I've got an XT on order, but talking to the shop mechanic he was kinda trying to steer me away from upgrading the rest and more towards a better bike saying by the time I finished upgrading a better bike might be more cost efficient.
Is he right? Or is he just trying to sell another bike? It seems to me the Rockhopper is worth dumping another 5 or 6 hundred bucks into for better shifters and dérailleurs, what do you guys think?
 
#2 ·
I think the guy at the LBS is trying to get more commission money. I would say it is definitely worth upgrading the parts and not the bike.....for f*cks sake you just got into the sport and are still learning. I am new to this sport too and am learning a lot from reading, riding and talking to other mtb'ers.
 
#3 ·
Your bike is a good one, so yes. BUT don't upgrade the parts unless they break. Overall, getting a new component set by buying a new bike is the cheapest way to do it, but it doesn't sound like you need it. Just get your shifters and derailers tuned and adjusted. Deore shifters matched to Deore/LX/XT derails are perfectly fine. You won't gain a lot by upgrading shifters. Just get everything properly adjusted. It's difficult, but doable.
 
#4 ·
A couple of questions....

ChuckO said:
I'm really new to this sport, I just bought a Rockhopper comp disc about three and a half months ago that I've put about three hundred miles on so far.
The bike is the M4 aluminum frame with the Tora 318 fork, decent rims that are strong and light (Sun DS2XC) But the dérailleurs and shifters are mid grade Shimano, Deore shifters and Deore front der, LX rear der. I hate the way the thing shifts, at first I thought it was just me but now I've ridden a couple other bikes and a friend rode mine and we've decided it's not me. I bent the front dérailleur in a crash the other day so I've got an XT on order, but talking to the shop mechanic he was kinda trying to steer me away from upgrading the rest and more towards a better bike saying by the time I finished upgrading a better bike might be more cost efficient.
Is he right? Or is he just trying to sell another bike? It seems to me the Rockhopper is worth dumping another 5 or 6 hundred bucks into for better shifters and dérailleurs, what do you guys think?
Since you've purchased the bike, have you had it tuned up? Generally when you buy a bike, there's a breaking in period that stretches cables. You'll suffer poor shifting regardless the component grade if your bike isn't tuned properly.

Generally, I agree with the shop mechanic. The drive train components on your bike are decent. No they're not top of the line, but LX components are pretty good. I've ridden several bikes with LX and not found them to shift much worse or better than XT or XTR. They're just heavier. On the other hand, your fork and wheelset is lower end and you would like benefit from replacing them at some point in the future (when they break down).

So my advice is this: Ride the crap out of your bike. If cheaper components (pricewise) break, consider replacing them, maybe even consider upgrading. But when a major component (fork, wheel, etc.) breaks, consider upgrading your bike. Keep in mind that you can spend lots and lots of money on high end derailers but if you crash and break it, you'll be out a more expensive derailer. I haven't ridden XTR or X.O for years for this reason. The lower end components work just as well and only weigh a little bit more.
 
#5 ·
I disagree....

ricocpa said:
I think the guy at the LBS is trying to get more commission money. I would say it is definitely worth upgrading the parts and not the bike.....for f*cks sake you just got into the sport and are still learning. I am new to this sport too and am learning a lot from reading, riding and talking to other mtb'ers.
New mountain bikers tend to break stuff. Especially drive train components. The OP's already broken his front derailer. So he's increased his price point already. When he breaks the rear derailer, the price difference is $50. So at what point does the OP stop spending money on components that he's not ready for?

I think the mechanic gave him proper advice: Don't upgrade this bike and save the upgrade costs for a newer, better bike.

Ken
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the replies.
I have had the bike tuned, even the mechanics words were "it shifted a little rougher than it should". The shifts on the rear are delayed, inconsistent, and noisy. Sometimes it shifts immediately, sometimes it waits a full turn of the crank. Whether this is from the cassette, or the dérailleur, the locktime on the hub, I don't know. I bought the bike from this place but they seem less than eager to help. On the original tuneup it took a week and when I got it back the chain was still rubbing on the front dérailleur at both gear extremes.
I think it may be time to try mechanic from another shop?
 
#7 ·
ChuckO said:
Thanks for the replies.
I have had the bike tuned, even the mechanics words were "it shifted a little rougher than it should". The shifts on the rear are delayed, inconsistent, and noisy. Sometimes it shifts immediately, sometimes it waits a full turn of the crank. Whether this is from the cassette, or the dérailleur, the locktime on the hub, I don't know. I bought the bike from this place but they seem less than eager to help. On the original tuneup it took a week and when I got it back the chain was still rubbing on the front dérailleur at both gear extremes.
I think it may be time to try mechanic from another shop?
Try another shop. My first "upgrade" would be to replace the housing and the shifter cables.
 
#9 ·
i bet you have a tweaked hanger.

You'll be a happier biker if you learn how to tune your own rear D. Then if it's untunable you know something is bent. I've bent a bunch of hangers, but never harmed a derailleur.

the only thing worth upgrading is the cassette. Other drivetrain components above deore level don't make much difference but 980/xt level cassettes shift much better and you're not gonna wreck one in a crash.
 
#10 ·
YES! I had a branch go through the spokes and come around to whack the rear der on my very first run into the trails. I told the mechanic that and he supposedly checked it but said it was okay.
I'm reading bicycling guide to complete bicycle maintenance and repair but I have a ways to go yet, I tried some of the information to try and bend my front der back and readjust it but failed pretty miserably.
I do think I'm going to check out a couple more shops in the area for mechanics, the place I'm dealing with isn't offering any discounts on service for having bought the bike there so I may as well.
 
#12 ·
ChuckO said:
Thanks for the replies.
...and when I got it back the chain was still rubbing on the front dérailleur at both gear extremes...
that just the way it is, and that's also why you should never ride with the chain at its "extremes"

Me thinks the combination of you crashing and your "adjusting" with the drivetrain has made your whole drivetrain a mess. Throwing money at it in high-end components won't do a darn thing for it.

It's time to let a Pro fix it...and it might cost a few bucks :yikes:
 
#13 ·
Okay.....

ChuckO said:
YES! I had a branch go through the spokes and come around to whack the rear der on my very first run into the trails. I told the mechanic that and he supposedly checked it but said it was okay.
I'm reading bicycling guide to complete bicycle maintenance and repair but I have a ways to go yet, I tried some of the information to try and bend my front der back and readjust it but failed pretty miserably.
I do think I'm going to check out a couple more shops in the area for mechanics, the place I'm dealing with isn't offering any discounts on service for having bought the bike there so I may as well.
So you thrashed the front DR. You ran a stick through your spokes and torqued the rear DR and your chain rubs the front DR when your in a small big/big small extreme combination (good catch, Russ).

So armed with more information, I don't think it's your cables and housing. I think you're learning and you're hard on your drive train. I think your rear DR hanger is likely bent. I think your expectation for a discount on maintenance to unreasonable as well. I think that upgrading your drive train will be a waste of money. So I still think your mechanic gave you good initial advice: Don't spend money on the bike until parts break and save your upgrade dollars for a higher end bike once you get out of the breaking components phase of your mountain biking progression.
 
#14 ·
I dunno, i had an '05 rockhopper that i upgraded and always liked it. i then went through other bikes and just got an '08 rockhopper w/ the M4 frame. I think its a great frame and reportedly 2/3lb lighter than the older A1. If you like the geometry and fit, i don't see whats wrong w/ upgrading things as needed.

I've had good luck in the past upgrading bikes and keeping all the stock parts. When its time to sell the bike, revert it to stock, and sell it. Then move the goodies to a new frame or bike. I've done this through a few bikes and my '08 rockhopper has a RS Reba, a new wheel set, BB7s, and a sram X9 drivetrain. I love the bike and i don't have a single complaint as it is.

In short, i agree it would be silly to spend $700 on a bike and then go and spend $400 more the next day to upgrade it. But buying the bike and then upgrading as you go over the course of a couple years seems reasonable to me.
 
#15 ·
I think the best way for you to have a nicer performing bike and not waste money is to buy:

Repair Stand.
Tools.
Floor pump.

Bookmark this site: http://www.parktool.com/repair/bikemap.asp

Learning to work on your bike will save you money in the long run.

Working on your bike will make you independent. Fix it at home, fix it on the trail, fix a friends bike for beer.

You will end up doing a better job that a bike shop, because you will get it "perfect", not just "running good".

A properly adjusted Alivio / Deore drivetrain will shift BETTER than a slightly out of whack XT / XTR drivetrain.

Finally, your cables are of utmost importance in shifting performance. Any dirt, mud, or friction KILLS shifting performance. Clean and lightly lube them often.
 
#16 ·
laurenlex said:
I think the best way for you to have a nicer performing bike and not waste money is to buy:

Repair Stand.
Tools.
Floor pump.

Bookmark this site: http://www.parktool.com/repair/bikemap.asp

Learning to work on your bike will save you money in the long run.

Working on your bike will make you independent. Fix it at home, fix it on the trail, fix a friends bike for beer.

You will end up doing a better job that a bike shop, because you will get it "perfect", not just "running good".

A properly adjusted Alivio / Deore drivetrain will shift BETTER than a slightly out of whack XT / XTR drivetrain.

Finally, your cables are of utmost importance in shifting performance. Any dirt, mud, or friction KILLS shifting performance. Clean and lightly lube them often.
All very good info. If you are mechanically inclined, have the time and have no problem with buying some bike specific tools, then DIY is a great way to get the most from your bicycling experience
 
#18 ·
I bought a used 98 Gary Fisher Big Sur and I'm upgrading it because it's an awesome frame.By the time I'm done I'll have approx. $650-$700 into it minus what I get for the replaced parts.That might seem like a lot,but as mentioned I love the frame and I wouldn't even come close to getting a new bike with the same components for the money I'm putting into it.Here's an example of the parts it will have or has so far...

Easton EC70 Carbon Handle bars
Titec Pluto Gold Carbon Stem
Titec or FSA Carbon Seat Post
Sachs PC-91 Chain
XT Shifters
XT Cassette
XT Front & Rear Dr's
XT Crank Set
Manitou Black Elite Air Shocks
Mavick EX721 Rims
Ritchey Innovader Tires(Not really an upgrade,just better suited to the type of riding I'll be doing.)
Specialized Bike Pump

Not too bad of a bike for around $700 I think and I'm not just going to turn around and sell it for a new bike,I like this one just fine.Also,I'd say only about 30% of the money I've used on it is from our checking account while the other 70% has come from selling off high end items from my other hobbies(Model trains & fishing)that I hardly or ever use so I think it's worked out great.

As others have mentioned I do have to get the proper tools and learn how to properly maintain and fix my own bike,not only will it save me a lot of money it will come in handy in case of an emergency,I think this is important.

Chris
 
#19 ·
theRuss said:
that just the way it is, and that's also why you should never ride with the chain at its "extremes"

Me thinks the combination of you crashing and your "adjusting" with the drivetrain has made your whole drivetrain a mess. Throwing money at it in high-end components won't do a darn thing for it.

It's time to let a Pro fix it...and it might cost a few bucks :yikes:
You're mixing things up here a little. The reference to the chain rubbing on the front der was when it was still brand new, the problem remained even after specifically asking about it prior to the initial "free" tuneup. That was a couple of months ago and I've been living with the chain rub since. I also asked the "pro" about the rear dérailleur hanger at the first tuneup, he claimed he checked that too but I really don't think they did anything beyond adjusting out the cable stretch.
Also when I was referring to riding with the chain at "extremes" I didn't mean cross chaining, I meant with the chain in either the lowest gear or the highest, meaning the two extreme positions with the chain all the way towards the center of the bike on the small chainring and the largest cog, or with the chain all the way towards the outside with it riding on the largest chainring and the smallest cog. I should be able to use my lowest and highest gears? While I don't actually use the lowest hill climbing gear much I do ride quite a bit on pavement for endurance training, am I not supposed to use the highest gear? That sound is annoying as all hell listening to it for thirty miles.

My attempt to "fix" the front der was the only time Ive tried to adjust anything, and as I said it was a miserable failure. The mechanic looked at it today and beat it back into a workable position but it does need to be replaced.
You guys keep telling me that these components should shift smoothly and that's my whole point, they don't and never have, two other more experienced riders AND the mechanic who worked on it for the initial free break-in tuneup all say it shifts rough.
And yes, where I'm riding IS rough, it's some of New England's finest rock gardens and root ranches, smooth single track is pretty much non existent. Even the cart roads are strewn with four inch and up loose rock.
When I crashed it was coming down an eighty percent grade single track strewn with fifteen inch boulders I was trying to wend my way through, I came around a corner to find a new tree had fallen across the trail (wasn't there the week before) so yeah, I went over the handle bars.
I paid almost eight hundred bucks for a bike that is supposed to be able to take a LITTLE beating on. You guys never crash?
I'm not trying to get something for nothing, I already paid for a new front der to arrive next week.
I'll also pay for the installation. Now the question is will it be done right?
 
#20 ·
Ken in KC said:
So you thrashed the front DR. You ran a stick through your spokes and torqued the rear DR and your chain rubs the front DR when your in a small big/big small extreme combination (good catch, Russ).

So armed with more information, I don't think it's your cables and housing. I think you're learning and you're hard on your drive train. I think your rear DR hanger is likely bent. I think your expectation for a discount on maintenance to unreasonable as well. I think that upgrading your drive train will be a waste of money. So I still think your mechanic gave you good initial advice: Don't spend money on the bike until parts break and save your upgrade dollars for a higher end bike once you get out of the breaking components phase of your mountain biking progression.
You're missing the fact that these components that are supposed to work well never have from the beginning or after the first tuneup. This thread has been helpful, reading through it I think I have come to the conclusion to start shopping around for better mechanics until I learn how to do it myself.
 
#21 ·
ChuckO said:
You're mixing things up here a little.
Perhaps...

It's tough to offer any valid help, given the limited info that you initially shared with "us"

...but we still do try!

with the bike upside down, rotate the cracks slowly. Do they track "straight" do they wobble? Are there any bent teeth?

same with the cassette, see any bent teeth?

does the chain have any tight links?

gotta make sure that's all good BEFORE tweeking derailleurs
 
#22 ·
go to parktool.com

With shops it's probably a 50/50 shot that you get a mechanic who actually knows what he's doing, especially when it comes to adjusting a mtn bike's components that are going to take an incredible amount of abuse so they need to be dead on.

The only sure way you're ever going to know if all components on your bike are adjusted and working correctly is to do the work yourself or going around to different bike shops until you find someone you can actually trust (your current mechanic doesn't sound to competent). Go to http://www.parktool.com/repair/ to find out what tools you will need and how to do the work yourself. Within 1 year of working on your own bike you'll be pretty good at it.
 
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