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Narrower beam for a Dinotte 5w?

2K views 23 replies 6 participants last post by  Wombat 
#1 ·
I use the 5w Dinotte (with AAs) on my helmet to supplement an overvolted 20 watt 9 degree halogen. The Dinotte's beam needs to be narrower to be really useful with the halogen. I know someone posted earlier about changing the LED and the lens (optics?) in the light, but can't find it.

Any suggestions on what I should use to narrow the beam would be appreciated.

Tim
 
#3 ·
As far as I can tell, the DiNotte ultra-5 uses a Carclo 8-deg optic, which was the narrowest one available. The large active area of the Luxeon-V chip makes it difficult to get a narrower beam with a TIR optic. There might be reflectors available that will give you a narrower beams, but they probably won't fit in the DiNotte (without some modification). As for changing the LED, I would contact Rob at DiNotte, there are not many LEDs with similar Vf's and forward currents as the Luxeon-V's, but newer batches of the same chip were more efficient (ie: brighter).

I posted a picture of the removed optic and LED on this forum, but I couldn't locate it.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I can't find the post either, but I do have a copy of your image! :D

I even had the text from your post stashed away too. From what I recall, you are spot on. Although any of the 20mm Carclo range should fit just fine, the 8 degree optic (Part Number 10003) is the narrowest available, and it does look like that's what's already used.

I have the DiNotte drawn up in Solid Works, and it does look like a few nice emitter / reflector combinations would work with a bit of machining. In all the combinations that I've looked at, a new face plate arrangement would have to be made / modified to allow a lens to be used to protect the emitter and reflector from dust and damage. Aside from the work and tinkering involved, it's certainly possible. :thumbsup:

The emitter swap that Rob does may be a much easier solution though! :p :D

Cheers, Dave.

Tom said:
I was going to wait till I got the elliptical optic to open it up, but...

Optic is 18mm diameter by 10mm deep, with a 19.8mm diameter lip.

ID if the housing is 18.4mm, with a ledge that is 20.9mm diameter and 0.6mm deep. The lip of the optic sits in the ledge, and a translucent gasket sits on top of everything sealing the unit. The Luxeons black plastic housing sits almost exactly 10mm from the front, it is an emitter (not a star) and is mounted to a pc board, which in turn is mounted to the housing, I did not remove the Luxeon to check the depth to the base of the housing.
 
#5 ·
Actually come to think of it, I do have a few unknown optics that are about the same as the Carclo 8 degree, but if I recall correctly they have a slightly brighter spot and slightly less spill.

I’m actually a little unsure on the exact details as I haven’t used them for ages. I remember that they aren’t quite as nice in terms of quality as the Carclo, but they may be alright as a secondary light with your system. Shoot me a PM Tim and I can probably send you one or two, I can’t see myself using them with any of my lights at this stage.

Dave.
 
#6 ·
All

Thanks for the information. I'll also ask Dinotte the same question and see what they say. I don't think it's a matter of a brighter emitter (but more light never hurt, and this may fix the "problem"). Rather, from all I've read the 5 w Dinotte is more a flood compared to the 3 w version
and I was hoping to able to use the 3 w optics.

MSXTR: the picture that low rider posted saves me from pulling it apart at this stage.

Dave: I'll see what Dinotte has to say and may get in touch with you afterwards. Thanks for the offer.

Tim
 
#7 ·
I’m unsure if DiNotte use a different optic for the Luxeon III and Luxeon III emitters or not. As Tom mentions, the use of four separate dies in the Luxeon V emitter do tend to create a slightly wider beam then the Luxeon III, with identical optics.

I know Tom and other members have had their lights upgraded by Rob, but I’m unsure of what exact modifications he actually offers to customers. It would be nice to know what he offers, and if he has any plans for upgrade kits or an upgrade service.

I can’t imagine that he would be worried about a simple optic swap in terms of warranty if you want to give it a try. ;)

Dave.
 
#9 ·
msxtr said:
Hi, I had been looking and the luxeon V works to 6,8v (??) anybody can confirm to me?? if really the luxeon V works to 6,8v then it is not possible the change to Seoul P4, since seoul P4 works to 3,2v and damage it.

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr
That depends on the electronics, with a decent constant current driver there shouldnt be any problems.
 
#10 ·
You can expect the forward voltage to be anywhere between 5.4v and 8.3v @ 700mA depending on the bin of the emitter. Datasheets for these older emitters are available on the Lumileds website.

As Brum mentions, these lights were built for the emitter that was chosen to be used so it will depend on the driver if things will be okay or not. I have no idea of the specifics of the driver that DiNotte have made for their lights, so it's impossible to make a comment.

Dave.
 
#11 ·
brum said:
That depends on the electronics, with a decent constant current driver there shouldnt be any problems.
Ok, in principle if are how you said, not will have problems, in any case one seoul p4 cost about 7$ will can test with seoul, if this damaged it is not will very money lost :rolleyes: I will trying :D

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr
 
#12 ·
Advice from Rob at Dinotte is that you can't just change the optics on the 5w to get a narrower beam as it already has the narrow optics. Interestingly he also mentioned that there is a new model coming out "soon" that will have

The light output of the 5W + 50% more light, 25% more run time and you could choose a narrow or a wide beam. We haven't figured out the cost for the upgrade but we're working on that.
Tim
 
#14 ·
msxtr: You cannot put a Seoul P4 in the AA driven Ultra-5 since it runs on a 4.8V battery pack with a boost converter - the P4's Vf is below the system's direct drive mode. The end result is the P4 will be directly connected to the battery pack with no regulation.

You may be able to put a P4 in the lithium powered version since it uses a buck converter, so it would depend on if the converter was designed with enough room to buck down to the ~3.5Vf of the P4. But it will still only drive the chip at 700mA.

Re: 8-deg optic - 8-deg is really quite narrow, but the beam from the Ultra-5 is more like 30-deg. This is because the optics are designed for a chip with a much smaller die (Luxeon-III's). The larger chip in the "V" has the effect of broadening the beam - it is really difficult to obtain a narrow beam from a large die. However, I understand that you can get a narrower beam from a reflector type optic, by to achieve this, these optics are very deep.

As far as I know, the only LED that can be easily retrofit into the Ultra-5 is a newer Luxeon-V. But there's always new stuff coming out... Edison lists some LEDs from 5W to 15W, but I've never seen one, and Lamia had a 5W with a similar Vf, but it's discontinued, and was never as efficient as the Luxeon). But each year, the same model Luxeons do get brighter and more efficient, so depending on how old your Ultra-V chip is, a newer Luxeon-V can be noticeably brighter.

Re: New Brighter Ultra-V replacement - this is probably a 4W like the Lux-III or Cree. The new ones are more efficient and produce similar or more Lumens compared to older Lux-V's, and since they have a nice small die, you can easily make narrower beams. Technology just keeps moving along...

Low_Rider: thanks for digging up the photo, I really should archive my old posts....
 
#17 · (Edited)
Thanks Dave - optics arrived

Low_Rider

Thanks to Australia Post the optic arrived yesterday. I appreciate that. The one you sent is the same height and width for the optic itself but has additional height because the cover sits above the optic. The first image is of both optics with the original on the left (not the best photographer, so sorry about the pic).

The second is a beam shot of the original optic and the third a has the optic you gave me. There is not much difference, but it seems that the additional height of the new optic cover makes the beam somewhat broader than the original - not what was I looking to achieve. I was surprised that the screws that attach the cover to the body of the Dinotte were all almost finger tight. I checked the screws on the rear and they were (slightly) tighter so I did it back up to that pressure.

Thanks again for the optic.

Tim
 

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#18 ·
I ran three of those “unknown” optics I sent you in a triple emitter cluster, and much preferred the triple Carclo 8 degree optics I replaced them with. They were a lot higher quality with fewer artefacts, and seemed to provide a much more defined hotspot and a much wider flood.

As a result I made the assumption that the optic I sent you would be narrower, but it wasn’t the case it seems! No problem, we can always try! :thumbsup:

Cheers, Dave.
 
#20 · (Edited)
As discussed earlier, the Luxeon III emitters that I once used and a single Luxeon V emitter behave quite differently optically. I have no problems believing that the new optics probably made things worse. It might still be worth going for a ride to see what it's like.

So I guess really we're probably back to the newer (better binned) Luxeon V emitter idea in the hope that more light output will give you a better hotspot? We'll have to get on to Rob and see what he offers. This thread of Toms may be an interesting read. I can only assume that the brighter output would result in a brighter hotspot too if the same optic was used.

As we have discussed earlier, different brands of emitters are probably possible too, but it would be a lot of mucking around.

Dave.
 
#21 ·
msxtr said:
Hi, I had been looking and the luxeon V works to 6,8v (??) anybody can confirm to me?? if really the luxeon V works to 6,8v then it is not possible the change to Seoul P4, since seoul P4 works to 3,2v and damage it.

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr
I'm sure this is a dumb question but what would happen if you ran 5 cells to the dinotte V (6.0 volts) as opposed to 4.8? Would the regulation circuit actually pass on the power to the LED, or would it try to regulate it back down to 4.8 and possibly overheat it? Or even if it didn't overheat would it regulate it anyway and thus make the whole thing a stupendous waste of time?
 
#22 ·
Here's a night version I took a couple of minutes ago. Sorry about the blur.

The first is the original optic and the second the one low_rider sent me.

The difference is no where near as stark as it appears: the auto camera setting have also changed, possibly because of more reflection. The first settings are 1.91 seconds at f2.8. The second is 2.0 seconds at the same f stop.

Tim
 

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#23 ·
I’ve done some reading, and after sorting through my gear I think I can safely say that the optic I sent you was in fact an NX05, which is a 10 degree optic. It is generally accepted that the NX05 is a wider, duller, and shorter throwing optic then the Carclo you have. Sorry, I really should have found out what they were before sending one to you!

I’ve done a bit of searching about, and I can’t really find any other 20mm optics that would make an obvious difference. There are a number of 20mm optics in the same ballpark as what you have that you could possibly try, but it’s likely that although the quality may vary there won’t be a noticeable difference in angle. From my experience of playing around, Carclo optics are the best that I have come across for Luxeon emitters in terms of quality anyway. ;)

At this stage I think looking further in to emitter upgrades may be your best chance, even if it’s just a better binned emitter in the hope that the extra light will help define the hotspot a little more. If such an upgrade would be all that noticeable is another matter…

Dave.
 
#24 ·
Dave

Thanks for taking the time to look into this. I am thinking I might be better off selling the Dinotte and seeing if the ayups suit me better. I would at least be able to upgrade the 3 watt emitters.

The only trouble is I can't buy a light that sells its batteries under the name of "lubra".

Tim
 
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