it would be for dh and some freeride, the gemini would do most fr and such. I am talking about the Judge 1 (all black one) the Sunday elite (brown one) or the Sunday team (black)
The Shock Valving problems were corrected beginning with the 2006 models.
unless you have an attachment to the single pivot design, Sunday all the way.
I own a judge and it rips no doubt however the dw design feels i think similer but without the brake jack (which is minimal on the judge imo) if i was to do it again i would probably go wit the sunday for the perks of the dw design but im not complaining wit my judge either way you go their both sick bikes and have a similar feel imo :thumbsup:
the sunday will pedal way better if that's important to you - with a freeride bike it might be. personally i think it's also much better looking than the crackn'fail - i don't like the look of the rear triangle. i'd go with the sunday - dw link rocks - also, less brake jack:thumbsup:
Before I continue, I must admit I have never even seen a Judge- let alone ridden one.
I do own a DW-Link Iron Horse. Quite simply, the bike does EVERYTHING right.
1) Pedaling? Very efficient! Very fast! Feels like a bike that weighs 5 pounds less.
2) Braking? Gone are the days of skidding, the rear end binding up, wondering how to dive into a corner, how early to brake, how late to brake etc.
The list goes on..... I had better stop before I begin to sound like an infomercial.
I will tell you this- there are plenty of Sunday/ 7point owners in So Cal- I have yet to meet one who has anything bad to say about either bike!
It is for that reason the SUNDAY sits atop my short list of DH/FR bikes!!! If all goes well, I will have one by Summer!
Now find the SUNDAY section. Good! Now drool at the picture for 20 minutes! Next step is to visit your local dealer, order the frame, build the bike and SMILE FROM EAR TO EAR!!!!!
The reason for the smile? Because each and every one of us will envy you!
All joking aside, it all comes down to personal preference. I suggest you ride both!!!!
Wow.......Dave Weagle must love the two of you. Only in his wildest dreams could he have imagined someone so eager to suck up the retarded marketing hype found on that dw-link site. You sound like some evangelical commercial on late night public network.
If you have a Sunday frame and want to use any shock besides the supplied one you still need to get the shock revalved for it to feel like any other bike would with an ordinary shock.
If you have a Sunday frame and want to use any shock besides the supplied one you still need to get the shock revalved for it to feel like any other bike would with an ordinary shock.
Thanks for the kind words!!! I am glad to see one person understood my attempt at humor. Quite a few people on MTBR are kinda' uptight. Not you my friend!!!!
Bust my balls all you want...... say whatever you want about the rear shock.... talk sh!t about DW's retarded marketing..... talk more smack about the fact the linkage system is hype.... talk all you want!
The fact is Hardcore Newbie asked for opinions and I gave mine!!!
I will end this post the same way I did my last post:
All joking aside, it all comes down to personal preference. I suggest you ride both!!!!
I'm not saying the linkage system is hype, only that bogus website. It works but for almost none of the reasons listed on 7 commandments of DW. The rear shock thing is not an issue if you go to a lot of races where Fox/Progressive/whoever is present or have access to some kind of shock tuner or whatnot, but it's an inconvenience for sure, especially if you're someone who just wants to build the bike up and go ride. Even once it's tuned, it bottoms like crazy and feels harsh through rough stuff, but that's a whole different issue.
And I got your attempt at humor. It still wouldn't stop Dave Weagle from having wet dreams about that kind of fanatical raving about his marketing crap. I didn't see much of an opinion in that post tho?
Riding both is the only way to tell. The way those two bikes will ride will be WAY different from each other. They're each going to cater to two distinct riding styles.
They are two significantly different bikes in terms of suspension design and geometry. There shouldn't be a 'vs'. between the two IMO. Did you take the time do research on either bike, or did you just decide you liked the looks of each bike and started this thread?
Before I continue, I must again thank DHidiot for his kind words and insight.
1) Hardcore Newbie asked which bike was better. My opinion is the Sunday is the better bike. The reason I did not get into detail- the guy who posted before me pointed out the fact pedaling efficiency, braking as well as feedback from SOCAL IH owners were all positive. I agreed.
2) I have owned (1) DW Link bike my entire life. It just so happens to be my newest bike. Before that, my bikes were all about the Single Pivot and 4 bar designs. The DW linkage system works- that is why I bought the bike. Would I buy another Single Pivot bike? If it was a gravity specific bike AND it included a brake therapy type system- hell yeah I would buy one! Same is true for a 4 bar design.
3) Your undeniable STIFFIE regarding the shock tuning?!? If the rear end is not working properly, I can see your point. If I had that much money invested in a bike- I would just pay to dial in the shock. Problem solved.
4) The Sunday bottoming like crazy and harsh through the rough stuff? Uhhh, not so sure about that! I see people doing pretty sick stuff on IH bikes without much complaint. I have also witnessed people of all shapes and abilities tackling the "FONTUCKY" DH course without much of an issue.
5) As for DW's 7 commandments.... Marketing hype? Possibly. Is there some truth to each point? Yes there is!!!
6) You noted DW link works- for none of the reasons listed on the 7 commandments. I am curious what do you like about it? What works? I am not busting balls. Just curious!
7) As for my words causing Dave Weagle to have wet dreams.... I just want people to be happy!
8) The fact you think I drank some Dave Weagle supplied Cool Aid. I CAN explain!!! It was late. I had been drinking. I had jus gotten out of the jacuzzi with (2) women. I was feeling good. Just wanted to check MTBR. I guess I got a little carried away!
9) Its all in good fun. The purpose of these Forums? I believe it is the exchange of information. We don't always agree. That's fine. As long as we learn something... Thanks for your input- its most appreciated!
10) I will end this post the same way I did the previous TWO:
All joking aside, it all comes down to personal preference. I suggest you ride both!
the sunday will pedal way better if that's important to you - with a freeride bike it might be. personally i think it's also much better looking than the crackn'fail - i don't like the look of the rear triangle. i'd go with the sunday - dw link rocks - also, less brake jack:thumbsup:
Personally, I think the name Crackn'fail name is long gone. Cannondale has completely bettered itself IMO. I have seen more Specialized's crack recently then Cannondales.
Since I own a Judge, I would say go with the Judge. This bike is sick. The geo number lie. The bike feels so nice, corners well and is pretty quick. My large comes in at about 44 pounds which isnt horrible if you ask me. Dont get me wrong, the Sunday is pretty sweet, but the Judge is better. Even though everyone is going to bring the "brakejack" deal of singlepivots, I think it is very unnoticable on the Judge. My vote is for the Judge, and the all black looks sick... I call mine the Black Beauty...
Also, I suggest you try to get a ride on both bikes. Like I was saying about the geo numbers, when I was reading them, I was like "Jezzz 18" chainstays, thats going to be hard to move" but honestly after getting the bike and riding it, you can manual this baby if you try. Its no street bike, but its pretty easy to get up. And more stable at racing speed too!
and i wasnt just deciding on looks i was seeing peoples opinions, and no i wasnt having a custom frame built for me.
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