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Triple Seoul P4 LED Light

75K views 210 replies 49 participants last post by  dan1million 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm nearly finished with a new Triple Seoul Semiconductor P4 LED bike light. So tonight I went out and took a beam shot to compare it to my Triple Cree XR-E light and thought I'd share the results with you.

The light housings are identical, so if you're curious about that, go look at the thread on the Triple Cree light. Both are driven at 1Amp. The Triple Cree uses Ledil lenses while the Triple SSC P4 uses IMS-20 reflectors (2 of which I've modified to produce more spill).

The top photo is the Triple Cree, the bottom is the Triple Seoul. (same manual camera settings of course)



One thing I notice is that I did manage to get a more even spill from the Seoul setup. Notice that to the left of the tree is dark with the Cree light, while you can still see the fence with the Seoul. There are several factors at play here, since one light is using lenses (1x4, 2x9 degree) and the other is using reflectors (that were meant for Luxeon emitters).

Since I couldn't get the Seouls mounted on stars, I used emitters, which made things a little more difficult, but not impossible.


Below is the IMS-20 reflector arrangement that I used (the front edge of the outer reflectors was sanded down).


Other notes:
the SSC P4 emitters are all U-binned which are advertised to output between 91 and 118 lumens @350mA. I'm driving them at 1A which, according to the Seoul Semiconductor technical documentation, should cause them to glow at about 200 lumens (assuming my emitters are at the bottom-end of the binning range). Multiply that by 3, and it should be around a 600 lumen bike light (minus any other losses in the reflectors and/or thermal degradation).

The Triple Cree has been a great light this season. I will give the Triple Seoul a test ride or two this week and let you guys know how it works out and compares on the trail. :)

Oh yeah. I forgot to add this link to my DIY LED Bike Light Guide web site, where you can get more info and detailed steps if you're interested in building one of these for yourself. The site is not completely finished, but it has enough info there to help you build the light.
 
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#3 ·
Congrats on an very nice looking light, I'm looking forward to a more detailed comparison.
Just a question, since all your emitters share a common metal base ,how do you electrically isolate them?

Another thing you might want to consider is adding a clear lens/shield to the front of the reflectors as the SSCs 'gummy bear' dome is known to easily collect dust.
 
#4 ·
etal said:
Congrats on an very nice looking light, I'm looking forward to a more detailed comparison.
Just a question, since all your emitters share a common metal base ,how do you electrically isolate them?

Another thing you might want to consider is adding a clear lens/shield to the front of the reflectors as the SSCs 'gummy bear' dome is known to easily collect dust.
Thanks.
I used a thin layer of Arctic Alumina Adhesive to attach/electrically insulate the slugs and the leads to the emitters. The leads are actually floating and not attached. I placed a razor blade under each lead as I soldered the wire. The AAA keeps the leads from shorting as well as isolating the slugs from the aluminum light body. I coated the entire mounting surface with one thin layer, let it dry, then used a small thin amount on each emitter slug to attach. Some people will say two layers are overkill, and will reduce thermal transfer. But the alternative is a short... which would result in a different kind of thermal transfer :)

Yeah, I'd hate to see what the gummy bears look like after a ride with no lens cover. :) The light will have a plexiglass front lens cover.

@ Y-Wrench - Thanks. Getting that perfect beam is always the trick, isn't it. There is a lot of experimentation going on with lenses and reflectors. Doing the beamshot comparison helps.... but the trail ride is the real test. Good luck with your build and be sure to share the results with us. The Crees are awesome and I'm hoping for similar results from the Seouls.
 
#6 ·
msxtr said:
Wowwwww very nice light, the seoul are more bright than cree. You are my idol :thumbsup:

What buck puck are you used?

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr
Thanks msxtr. There's definitely a different distribution of light coming from the Seouls/reflectors. I re-used an old 3021 Buckpuck (1000mA) and a pot for dimming from my Triple Luxeon III light.
 
#8 ·
p97z said:
Looks nice! Why are the bare emitters harder to mount? Are they harder to center?
They are really small, you'd have to fold up the 'legs' that you solder to and with some reflector/optics you dont want to put too much AAA on it, as it creates a edge around the emitter that makes it impossible for the optics/reflector to come down to its optimal height. Also, with a polarized slug, lots of stars have a anodized surface on the bottom, that eleminates the need for a double layer of AAA or a extra strip of ano alu.
 
#9 ·
p97z said:
Looks nice! Why are the bare emitters harder to mount? Are they harder to center?
What Brum said... plus you risk damaging the emitter from the heat of soldering directly to the emitter lead and the possibility of bumping the dome with a soldering gun tip (unfortunately I did this a while back). And they're just smaller and more difficult to handle.
 
#11 ·
I finished sealing the light up tonight with some silicone sealant. I made a lens that covers the entire front from plexiglass and sealed it in as well. Here is a photo of the light sitting on top of my helmet. As you can see, it looks pretty much identical to the Triple Cree XR-E light, except you can see there is a pot sticking out the back for dimming the light... in some ways this is more practical than the pushbutton controlled bFlex or nFlex, but the pot sticks out more than the button. Also, the bFlex/nFlex and pushbutton are easier to fit into the small case than the 3021 Buckpuck and rather large, but high quality, 5k audio taper pot. I actually had to J-B weld the two retaining brackets, that hold the front on, after installing the components. I will have to break the J-B Weld if I ever need to change or get to the inner parts.

The rubber grip feet and two velcro straps allows for a pretty sturdy helmet mount in just a few minutes. The light can be adjusted up and down for just the right angle and stays put by just hand tightening the bolts.



Test ride tomorrow night. :D
 
#13 · (Edited)
p97z said:
Nice work! Let us know how it works out.

What are you using on the bars?
Thanks.

I'm still using my Dual Luxeon V on the bars for now. But soon I might put this light on the bars, and use the Cree on the helmet... for about 1000 lumens total... hmmm do I really need that much light? Oh, what the heck!
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the inspiration achesalot.

I have been waiting for the Q2 bin crees to come out (I'm not the only one.) I read on CPF that they were only going to be available sometime in the next quarter and saw that the seouls are now available on stars from photonfanatic (on CPF) so I am going to order the seouls tomorrow.

I also have a triple cree MR16 bulb (240 lumen at 350mA) on its way soon from a group buy which will replace my old halogen light which my wife will use.

Hopefully, I'll have them up and running for my southern hemisphere winter.
 
#17 ·
Strong like Bull said:
Thanks for the inspiration achesalot.

I have been waiting for the Q2 bin crees to come out (I'm not the only one.) I read on CPF that they were only going to be available sometime in the next quarter and saw that the seouls are now available on stars from photonfanatic (on CPF) so I am going to order the seouls tomorrow.

I also have a triple cree MR16 bulb (240 lumen at 350mA) on its way soon from a group buy which will replace my old halogen light which my wife will use.

Hopefully, I'll have them up and running for my southern hemisphere winter.
You're welcome. I've been waiting on the Q2-bin Crees as well. I wasn't too sure about the Seouls at first, but it looks like they might work out nicely. The first three I ordered from a CPF group buy were a nice white tint. I used one of them in a flashlight upgrade, then ordered a couple more from the Sandwich Shoppe. They were a little more toward the blue side of the spectrum... but not bad. So by the time I got around to building this bike light, I used two of the nice white ones, and one that was slightly blueish.

Let us know how the MR16 Cree bulb works out.
 
#18 ·
you guys are killing me

Been watching you DIY guys building these way cool lights and i want one! The problem is i don't get enough sleep as it is and i am not about to take up another hobby that requires more tools and stuff and a whole lot of intense knowledge. Cool S#%T Y'all, and if any one wants to sell one just let me know, keep it up, bless the underground!
 
#19 ·
Wookie. Glad you're digging the "LED Bike Light Underground." Nothing for sale here at the moment, but I might get too many lights built one day, and have to sacrifice one or two :) but right now, fellow riders have dibs on a couple.

I finished my first trail test ride tonight with the Triple Seoul. The light performed well. It stayed cool with no problems at an ambient temp in the low 60's F here in Florida. The light has a smaller hotspot than my Triple Cree light, but offers a little more side fill. It is quite pleasant to ride with on the helmet alone, or accentuated by my Dual Lux V handlebar light. I'm still out to lunch on whether I prefer the Triple Cree or Triple Seoul as a helmet light. Both provide a nice amount of light.

I think for my Thursday night ride, I will try the 3xSSC on the handlebar and the 3xCree on the helment for that 1000 lumen rush! :D

Oh yeah. I forgot to add this link to my DIY LED Bike Light Guide web site, where you can get more info and detailed steps if you're interested in building one of these for yourself. The site is not completely finished, but it has enough info there to help you build the light, or something similar. Feel free to add your own improvements, modifications, or stylistic variations.
 
#21 ·
achesalot said:
Wookie. Glad you're digging the "LED Bike Light Underground." Nothing for sale here at the moment, but I might get too many lights built one day, and have to sacrifice one or two :) but right now, fellow riders have dibs on a couple.

I finished my first trail test ride tonight with the Triple Seoul. The light performed well. It stayed cool with no problems at an ambient temp in the low 60's F here in Florida. The light has a smaller hotspot than my Triple Cree light, but offers a little more side fill. It is quite pleasant to ride with on the helmet alone, or accentuated by my Dual Lux V handlebar light. I'm still out to lunch on whether I prefer the Triple Cree or Triple Seoul as a helmet light. Both provide a nice amount of light.

I think for my Thursday night ride, I will try the 3xSSC on the handlebar and the 3xCree on the helment for that 1000 lumen rush! :D

Oh yeah. I forgot to add this link to my DIY LED Bike Light Guide web site, where you can get more info and detailed steps if you're interested in building one of these for yourself. The site is not completely finished, but it has enough info there to help you build the light, or something similar. Feel free to add your own improvements, modifications, or stylistic variations.
duuuuude! I've been watching your work and appreciating you sharing of experiences with the forum, being a flashaholic MTB'er and a tinkerer, I've been chomping at the bit to build one but don't want to do so and find I was weeks too early on the best bin.... so patient I've been.
However may I offer some completely constructive criticism? Since this isn't commercial and you seem to be motivated by showing off your artistic "bling bling" to your friends, you probably don't realize just how simple it is to turn home depot extrusion into this:
 

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#22 ·
I'm not trying to "force" my or anyone's "style " onto you and your work, and we ARE talking about mountain biking here. You fall, you scratch things. I think you'd be a lot more satisfied with your work if you were shown what can be done with the materials you are using, and basic finishing.... AND you can shave weight if you remove material in the right areas... (how much or is it worth it to you, I dunno)
That is a RockFord Fosgate Symmetry RDAT used for car audio competitions I did in the 90's, much of the stuff I did on my cars followed that theme, and I did it in my spare bedroom workshop. Neat thing is imperfections and gaps, even screw heads that don't sit flush, if you sand them down with progressively finer grits of abrasive like Depot's waterproof metal sanding paper- start dry around 220 and finish up to 1200 wet- sort of blend in together.
Getting a mirror finish is work but there is a very, very important thing to remember with products like mother's or (I prefer) Blue Magic: It's not a matter of polishing over and over or harder and faster. I've gotten a perfect shine then hit it one more time and had to walk away as it just got worse. There is a touch to it, a window at the very second the metal turns the polish black and just begins to feel like it's dragging as it disappears-STOP and grab that buff rag and lightly but quickly polish it off. Most people assume its's just "rub away" and more is better, but like soldering, it requires a touch and regular practice.

I hope I haven't made a wrong assumption and you glean some inspiration from this, as I have your work.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the tips Batvette. Nice looking work there. I've just been going for a brushed Aluminum look and admit I don't spend a whole lot of time on the final finish. I'm usually more interested in the beams coming out of the thing.

I'm not so much motivated by showing my "bling bling" (Ok maybe a little :) ) as sharing information with others who have similar interests and might like to try building their own light. I hope the information takes some of the mystery out of it for others. As with your polishing, it's mostly just a lot of work and the more you put into it, the more you get out of it.

OK. Now you must build one of these lights, and show us the shining, polished result :)
 
#24 ·
Plastic bag diffuser

I've been playing around with materials to use as a diffuser. The Triple Seoul has pretty good side spill, but it still has a smallish, bright hotspot in the middle. It is just a little distracting while riding. I experimented with a few materials: plastic bags, wax paper etc. I found a particular plastic bag (I think from the grocery store) that is semi-opaque (you can see light, but not make things out) when you hold it up near your eyes and try to look through it, yet nearly transparent when you place it up against something like a page in a book. Sort of like wax paper, but a little more transparent.

Anyway, placing this plastic over the lens of my light causes a nice diffusion of the hotspot into something more along the lines of what I was looking for. I'll try to post some beamshots in the near future. If you have a homebuilt (or manufactured) light that is too spotty, you might wanna experiment with some plastic bags around the house that are of the nature that I described above. Plus, it doubles as a lens protector :) I just attached it with some transparent tape.
 
#25 ·
Hi Achesalot -you are an inspiration.
I've tried the IMS20 on the Seoul with nothing off the back (you get a spot)
If you take 0.03" off you get a nice spread out beam with no spot.

How much difference does taking material off the front of the reflector make compared to a non-modded reflector?

Cheers
Dom
 
#26 ·
poobardog said:
Hi Achesalot -you are an inspiration.
I've tried the IMS20 on the Seoul with nothing off the back (you get a spot)
If you take 0.03" off you get a nice spread out beam with no spot.

How much difference does taking material off the front of the reflector make compared to a non-modded reflector?

Cheers
Dom
Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks. I'll try trimming the base of the IMS20 0.03" and see what happens (p97z had mentioned this as well). I had sanded off the front of the reflector which allowed more spill, but it still has the hotspot.

I took some beamshots lastnight. These are just against the wall at about 5 feet. I underexposed the shot to look at the hotspot only. The wall is about the color that appears in the Cree shots (top row). The left side are the diffused hotspots and the right are un-diffused. The Triple Cree is top, Seoul P4 on bottom. These shots didn't capture the full smoothing effect, instead they just make the hotspot look dimmer.


I'll try to take some outdoor shots to compare with my previous beamshots to see if it causes too much of a loss of total light.
- Allen
 
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