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Gustav vs. Code...brakes for a big boy

10K views 97 replies 31 participants last post by  8664 
#1 ·
I've narrowed my brake purchase down to these two choices. They'll be going on my '02 RFX and will be responsible for slowing and stopping my 270lb carcass both on the trail and on lift-assisted downhill runs. I've done extensive searching and I've read every thread on mtbr that mentions either of these brakes. Yes, every one. ;) Plus I've PM'd with a few new Code users to get their impressions.

That said, I'm looking for fresh input and/or comparisons from anyone who's interested in giving input.

Here are my thoughts:

Gustav
  • Powerful
  • Heavy
  • Expensive
  • Use Mineral Oil (non-caustic)
  • Look Cool
  • "Floating Caliper" design may have some brake drag

Code
  • Powerful
  • Heavy
  • Expensive (but less the Gustavs)
  • Use DOT brake fluid (caustic)
  • Look Cool (but IMO not as cool as the Gustavs)
  • No floating caliper, probably means no drag

The fact that I like the Gustav's aesthetics is not enough reason to get them, if all other things are equal. It seems to me that Gustavs have the reputation for being the (or one of the) most powerful DH brakes made. At my size I certainly could use a most powerful brake. It still seems to early to tell (no real ride reports on DH trails) if the Codes match up. If anyone has any relevant experiences or info it would be much appreciated.

Patrick



 
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#3 ·
The Gustavs are tremendous stoppers, superbly built and need to be experienced to be believed. After being broken in properly there was no drag on mine. If you buy them make sure you get the version you're gonna stick with because the adaptors cost a fortune- if you change from IS to postmount for example. The Codes are probably very good, but they CANNOT be any better and boy are they ugly.
 
#4 ·
Both are good brakes....whichever you choose you will be happy...I would be leaning towards the Codes.....cheaper and brake fluid can run higher temps if you are doing resort runs

BTW I have not used either.......I really like the Saints and they stop me just fine at 210 (armour 230)
 
G
#5 ·
SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:
Both are good brakes....whichever you choose you will be happy...I would be leaning towards the Codes.....cheaper and brake fluid can run higher temps if you are doing resort runs

BTW I have not used either.......I really like the Saints and they stop me just fine at 210 (armour 230)
20 lbs of armour, I think you need some lighter stuff ;)
 
#6 ·
I run the Gustavs and the work pretty damn good. I weigh about 220 and 240 something with gear and would totaly recommend these. As far as drag is concerned I had it a bit when I was first setting them up, but it can be fix with the proper amount of spacers. So until I recently bent my rotor I did not have any drag/rubbing noises at all.

I was in your situation asking the same question on trying to decide between the same two and decided to go with the Gustav's and could not be happier.

I've taken a look at the Codes and thier brake pads are tiny compared to the gustav's (pretty much almost standard size). So I'm not sure where all the stopping power comes from. I'm guessing it is the 4 pistons that gives it that much more preasure to make them make contact.
On the other hand the Gustavs have longer brake pads which would mean more breaking surface, plus it has bigger pistons. So I again I am assuming that this would give it the breaking power that it has. Who knows.....That's just my uneducated guess.

But it seems that they both have what your looking for, so like SMT said I don't think you can go wrong with either.
 
#8 ·
There are some benefits to mineral based brakes as well outside of it being non-toxic and paint friendly. One of the major ones is that mineral oil will not absorb water from the air (DOT will), Absorbed water causes gas bubbles to form in the system which creates a sprongy feel and you'll often see dot based brakes with this symptom.

Gustav's have been out for awhile, and this is the first year for Codes as well.
 
#9 ·
I was looking at Gustavs for a while and it got me a thinking... Why all this quest for power? I weight 230lbs and I haven't found a hydro brake (properly bled) that I can't lock out my rear wheel with. The friction point (when your wheel locks) is going to be the same no matter what brake you run, so I don't see a point in buying $500-$600 brakes that have "more power." That extra power is never used because the friction point will always be the same (depending on breaking surface, ie, rock vs. sand).
What seems more important to me would be modulation, which is key, because there is no other situation than a panic emergency stop that you need to lock out your wheel. Better modulation would actually create more "power" because stoping time is greatly reduced if you can have your brakes at the point right before the friction point, but not locked.
My saints have alway had great modulation with not nearly as much weight as thoes Codes or Gustavs add. Just my $00.02
Rant over, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
G
#10 ·
fred.r said:
I was looking at Gustavs for a while and it got me a thinking... Why all this quest for power? I weight 230lbs and I haven't found a hydro brake (properly bled) that I can't lock out my rear wheel with. The friction point (when your wheel locks) is going to be the same no matter what brake you run, so I don't see a point in buying $500-$600 brakes that have "more power." That extra power is never used because the friction point will always be the same (depending on breaking surface, ie, rock vs. sand).
What seems more important to me would be modulation, which is key, because there is no other situation than a panic emergency stop that you need to lock out your wheel. Better modulation would actually create more "power" because stoping time is greatly reduced if you can have your brakes at the point right before the friction point, but not locked.
My saints have alway had great modulation with not nearly as much weight as thoes Codes or Gustavs add. Just my $00.02
Rant over, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Its just one of those less effort things, just like a lighter bike, its easier to move around and crap..... A powerful brake is easier to use beucase its less effort
 
#12 ·
j_a_k_e_69@hotmail.com said:
Its just one of those less effort things, just like a lighter bike, its easier to move around and crap..... A powerful brake is easier to use beucase its less effort
I've never felt like one finger over the brake was too much effort... but maybe it's just me.
Spending $300 more on a pair of brakes for less effort on one finger seems kinda :rolleyes:

I guess I can see it on some of the lower end brakes like hayes 9s, but even thoes were fine for me if they were bled right. But I do see your point, kinda.

Saints are the way to go, cheaper than most of the higher end breaks, w/ power and modulation to boot.
 
#14 · (Edited)
fred.r said:
I was looking at Gustavs for a while and it got me a thinking... Why all this quest for power? I weight 230lbs and I haven't found a hydro brake (properly bled) that I can't lock out my rear wheel with. The friction point (when your wheel locks) is going to be the same no matter what brake you run so I don't see a point in buying $500-$600 brakes that have "more power." That extra power is never used because the friction point will always be the same (depending on breaking surface, ie, rock vs. sand).
That's a good point, and this is an issue that I've struggled with while making this decision. The fact is, I don't know how well any hydro brake is going work for me while downhilling. The only brakes I've used while downhilling are the cheapo Shimano mechs that are OE on my HT. As you can imagine, they were woefully inadequate. This experience made me decide that I wanted/needed to have brakes that will perform as I need them, when I need them, powerfully and without fading. My real-world and mtbr research led me the the Gustavs. The seem to be a no comprise solution and fall into my current philosophy of "getting the right tool for the job the first time".

I've have not demo'd the Gustavs (nor the Codes) but have tried out several models of hydros (Juicy 7s - on 2 different bikes, Hayes Soles, Magura Louise FR) on demo bikes on trail rides (not downhilling) and they all more or less worked OK. Of these, the Maguras "felt" the best. The Soles were spongy (needed bleeding, probably) and of the the two different sets of Juicys were OK, their performance did not stand out.

At this point I've got to make a choice based on my (admittedly limited) experiences, the experiences of those I've spoken with, the "reviews" and opinions of forum members and to a lesser extent on the depth of my wallet. At 270lbs plus gear (so figure 290lbs with clothes/shoes, some armor and a loaded camelbak) I'm at the extreme end of what most components can handle. AFAIK Gustavs are the only brakes that are tandem rated, and I'm practically the weight of both members of a tandem racing team combined.

fred.r said:
What seems more important to me would be modulation, which is key, because there is no other situation than a panic emergency stop that you need to lock out your wheel. Better modulation would actually create more "power" because stopping time is greatly reduced if you can have your brakes at the point right before the friction point, but not locked.
I have only read good things about the Gustavs modulation. I have no way of comparing the modulation "characteristics" of different brakes, unless there's a vendor out there that will let me demo a bunch of different models on my bike. I don't think there is, though. :( It seems that the absolute power of the brake is particularly relevant for me (because of my size) especially when I need to use them to control myself at high speeds. A less powerful brake may not modulate well in this "upper level" of braking. And this is the range where I need the brakes to work the best, when it's most critical. I've formed the opinion that the Gustavs will do this best. Several posters here have confirmed this belief.

fred.r said:
My saints have alway had great modulation with not nearly as much weight as thoes Codes or Gustavs add.
I know that there are many people (yourself, SMT, others) that are very happy with the Saints, and I may be wrong, and it is possible that Saints or Juicy's or El Camino's would work just as well, but I'm not willing to take a chance that they will be even mildly ineffective. I'd rather overdue it (and over-spend), then be unsatisfied with the performance of a brake and have to upgrade anyway.

Thanks for your input.

Patrick
 
#15 ·
fred.r said:
Saints are the way to go, cheaper than most of the higher end breaks, w/ power and modulation to boot.
I just priced out the Saints: a set of 8" rotors front and rear with Saint levers comes to $380 at Universal Cycles, which right around a price quote I've gotten for the Codes. It likely the Saints can be found cheaper elsewhere. The Gustavs are certainly more ($80 to $100) more for the set.

Patrick
 
#16 ·
I'm running 190mm Gustav front, 180mm Louise rear. I'm very happy, the Gustav front is awesome. Drag is no problem, just face your mounts and it'll be fine. They are by far the biggest brake I've ever seen for a bike. The pad area is about double most other brakes, its like having two calipers on the rotor.

I got mine used for $100, but saw a new set on ebay for $330 or so... Magura would probably trade out adapters if you buy them new as well.

I have never tried Codes, but other avids seemed grabby, the Mags feel much better, IMO. I have only heard good things about Saints, too.
 
#18 ·
Gustavs..

I've had my Gustavs for about 3 years and couldn't be happier. I weigh 230 without gear with a 190mm in the front and a 160 in the back they are perfect. I rode the probably 400+ runs at Whistler these last 2 seasons on these brakes and they just work perfect. The modulation
is indeed the selling point of these brakes. It's not just when you're inching down a slippery log but also when you're railing berms at mach speed and you just need alittle feather of the brakes to keep things smooth. That's when they shine. Also the mineral oil doesn't break down like the DOT stuff does so you can run them for years without touching them. The downside is the price of adaptors. I switched from I.S. this last season to Post mount and the adaptor cost me 92 bucks! Otherwise they have a great warranty and good customer service. Brake drag is nonexistent if shimmed right. I always vow to never buy the first run of new products so the Codes would be a "wait and see" kinda thing for me. Oh yeah, they are dead silent unlike the Juicy's. Buy'em.
 
#19 ·
PCinSC said:
That's
I know that there are many people (yourself, SMT, others) that are very happy with the Saints, and I may be wrong, and it is possible that Saints or Juicy's or El Camino's would work just as well, but I'm not willing to take a chance that they will be even mildly ineffective. I'd rather overdue it (and over-spend), then be unsatisfied with the performance of a brake and have to upgrade anyway.

Thanks for your input.

Patrick
I was debating on different brakes........Juicy's and El Caminoes didn't have the power I wanted...El Caminoes especially....

.....I was really surprised with the Saint brakes because they have very little lever pull and I was afraid of on/off and no modulation at all......the Saints were very good, modulation was awesome with less pull then My Hayes Mags and more power with less strain on the fingers when pulling.......
 
#20 ·
SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:
.....I was really surprised with the Saint brakes because they have very little lever pull and I was afraid of on/off and no modulation at all......the Saints were very good, modulation was awesome with less pull then My Hayes Mags and more power with less strain on the fingers when pulling.......
Well, I'm now considering getting a wheelset with Saint hubs, so it looks as if Saint brakes are back up for consideration. There is a wheel deal that several e-tailers are offering that's almost too good to refuse. So I have to admit I'm pretty confused at this point, as it seems my brake purchase may be linked to my wheel purchase. :madman:

  • If I get the Saint-based wheelset, I should get the Saint brakes for compatibility reasons. That's my cheapest option.
  • If I go with a hand-built set of wheels (not Saint hubs) then I can get the brake that I really want...the Gustavs. This option is much more expensive.

It's not like either is a bad choice. I guess the question that I have to answer is whether it's worth the extra money to get the Gustavs (and am I willing to spend that money). The answer is yes, I'm willing to spend the money, and since I've already convinced myself that I need the Gustavs, it seems like that's what I should get, regardless of whether they're that much better in performance or not.

That's a pretty poor rationale for spending several hundred more dollars, but I guess the weight weenies spend that much trying to save 100 grams on their race bikes.

Any opinions that will further confuse me are welcome. :crazy: ;)

Patrick
 
#21 ·
PCinSC said:
Well, I'm now considering getting a wheelset with Saint hubs, so it looks as if Saint brakes are back up for consideration. There is a wheel deal that several e-tailers are offering that's almost too good to refuse. So I have to admit I'm pretty confused at this point, as it seems my brake purchase may be linked to my wheel purchase. :madman:

  • If I get the Saint-based wheelset, I should get the Saint brakes for compatibility reasons. That's my cheapest option.
  • If I go with a hand-built set of wheels (not Saint hubs) then I can get the brake that I really want...the Gustavs. This option is much more expensive.

It's not like either is a bad choice. I guess the question that I have to answer is whether it's worth the extra money to get the Gustavs (and am I willing to spend that money). The answer is yes, I'm willing to spend the money, and since I've already convinced myself that I need the Gustavs, it seems like that's what I should get, regardless of whether they're that much better in performance or not.

That's a pretty poor rationale for spending several hundred more dollars, but I guess the weight weenies spend that much trying to save 100 grams on their race bikes.

Any opinions that will further confuse me are welcome. :crazy: ;)

Patrick
you don't have to get saint hubs to get Saint brakes (I am running Hadleys w/6 bolt Shimano brake rotors-you get as a set when you buy the Saints ...along with the rotors that fit the Saint Hubs.......If I was you I would save the cash and run the Codes.....but I always say....stay away from first year out stuff....so go for your Gustav

Big Choice, But Saints, Codes Gustav....neither you could go wrong
 
#22 ·
SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:
you don't have to get saint hubs to get Saint brakes...
I realize that, I have yet to make my decision whether I'm gonna get a wheelset with Saint hubs and that will determine whether I'm gonna get Saint brakes or not. Kind of a package deal.

If Saint hubs = yes, then Saint brakes = yes.

If Saint hubs = no, then brakes = Gustavs, Saints, Codes or other...

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:
...so go for your Gustav. Big Choice, But Saints, Codes Gustav....neither you could go wrong
Yeah, can't go wrong. Except if I biff and break a caliper, it's cheaper to replace a Saint then it is a Gustav. Although the rotors are about the same price. See, I'm still on the fence. :madman: ;)
 
#23 ·
PCinSC said:
I can get the brake that I really want...the Gustavs.
Just go for what you want and it seems like money is not an issue. So why not?

this way you won't be wondering what would it be like if you would have went with what you really wanted.

If you don't want to spend all that money then look for them on ebay. I have seen set's go for 300 dollars for both front and rear. Way better then spending 300 dollars each front or rear.
 
#24 ·
PCinSC said:
IYeah, can't go wrong. Except if I biff and break a caliper, it's cheaper to replace a Saint then it is a Gustav. Although the rotors are about the same price. See, I'm still on the fence. :madman: ;)
if you are that much on the fence...then I would try to demo some saints at a local bike shop....maybe that will help you decide...or find someone that has them.........it is a very tough decision....good luck on whatever you choose.......if you have the cash get the Gustav's but I would still demo the Saints first
 
#26 ·
gustavs are amazing. they are quiet. even if you've got a bent rotor and they rub, you won't hear it. they have the same power and modulation no matter if they are cold or if you've just descended 2000' on a steep switchback-trail.
mine don't drag either, all you have to do is make sure the adaptor is aligned properly when you install them.

they have been around for 10 years (there is an anniversary edition this year), and the only ones that had some issues were the 2003 (or 2002?) models which used a louise lever with a too small reservoir.


codes look promising, but i wouldn't buy them until they've been around for at least 2 or 3 years.
 
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