I just went tubeless. I got some stan's rim strips from a friend who wasn't using them (he's figured out how to seal standard tires onto UST rims) and suggested that I save my money and buy some Slime (mixed 50/50 with water) to seal my tires. I did just that, but my rear tire is still leaking the next morning. It seemed to hold air until I rode it this morning, and now it's got little pinholes of snot sweating out of my sidewalls. In that super long thread about UST vs Latex, someone posted something about how many times you have to pump air into a latex tire before it seals, so is that all I have to do? I'm runnign IRC Mythos F/R Kevlar tires if that helps any. Oh, and I did the rear tire first and it took a several minutes to seal, and I was leary (being a first time tubless guy) so I filled the front tire with twice the sealand I put in the rear. I put 1/2 cup in the rear, and closer to 1 cup in the front. How big is the scoop that comes with a stan's kit, anyway?
Thanks...
FWIW, the 10 minutes I got to ride it this morning before I notice the loss of pressure and turned back were great. Rolls a lot faster, but I am coming off of HD thorn proof tubes. Light tubes a not any option for me. WAY too many goat heads and thorns in my front yard let alone the trails out here in the desert.
I'm with jjay here - the latex helps seal the tiny little leaks in a normal tire, while the Slime works best on larger holes. It works by air flowing out through the leak, so the sidewall's probably aren't letting enough air through for the Slime to seal.
You can buy latex mold builder at pretty much any arts or crafts store, and the jar you get is enough to make lots of sealant. You can just add it to the water-Slime mix you have now.
I don't have recipes on me, but do a search on this site and you'll find bunches.
Jon.
Yeah, I'll look into that and get some. I pumped my tires up again, and the front was leaking too. It was down to 20psi and the rear still held its shape but didn't register any pressure on the pump's gauge. It's been a couple of hours now and they look like they are holding. How much sealant should I add? I don't really see where the wegiht savings is over light tubes though. What's a rimstrip weigh? at least 50g? With 1/2cup sealant you are up to at least 150g a tire? I've seen tubes advertised at around 100grams, but of course you don't have the puncture protection. I'm in it more for that and the rolling resistance anyway. Thanks!
A cup of sealant holy moly! You put like 2 oz of stans in a tire. And no, it's not really lighter, with the sealant and rim strip you're 10g lighter than a standard tube, but you do get puncture protection and you can run lower pressure. I've run my front tire, inadvertantly, down to 20 psi (and I'm 225 lbs) and it was okay, I was careful rolling over stuff though.
bmadau - when people say "a cup" in regards to this stuff. They are typically talking about 1 ounce. That is the size of the little cups that come with the Stans junk.
I knew that.. I just didn't know the volume of stan's "cup". I watched the video on his site and it looked like he had that tire filled pretty far up the sidewall, it looked like a lot. I guestimated and started out with 1/2 cup (4oz?). I just went overkill to see if it'd work. I'll cut back on the sealant later.
I knew that.. I just didn't know the volume of stan's "cup". I watched the video on his site and it looked like he had that tire filled pretty far up the sidewall, it looked like a lot. I guestimated and started out with 1/2 cup (4oz?). I just went overkill to see if it'd work. I'll cut back on the sealant later.
A Stan's scoop weighs 60 grams and is plenty for most tires and conditions (cross country). Just save your time and buy a pint of Stan's for $15 or thereabouts plus shipping. Or go down to your LBS and grab some right now and get it over with. This stuff is proven. I don't wanna sound like an ad but why would you go out and buy moldbuilder and Slime and mix with water and hope to God that it works. Just take it easy on yourself and use what works. Slime is not properly formulated to seal regular tires, it works best inside innertubes. I'm just trying to be helpful, not trying to plug Stan's, but it's just the easiest thing to do.
I've been following this thread and was hoping you guys could shed some light? Is there a better system out there other than Stan's? I currently ride Mavic X223 with IRC Mythos XC tires. I posted a thread about getting new wheelset cuz I thought this wheelset was seems too skinny and more prone to pinch flats (5 over the past 5 rides/6 weeks) and I'm fed up! I was thinking of Sun Single Track rims cuz its fatter and more stable, but someone mentioned I look into heavier, stronger tubes first...
PricePoint has Stan's system for like $60. Will my current Mavic/Mythos setup convert ok? Or do I need to get a fatter rim like Sun? For those of you who've tried or converted, what are you thoughts?
175lbs
Aggressive XC/Trail riding in S. FL - no mtns, but plenty of sharp coral rocks and roots
no freestyle/jumping/competing - just fun and fitness
Giant VT w/ full XT
I used Mythos XC Kevlars w/ Bontrager Mustang rims w/ out any problems on my HT. I am not sure why you would be getting pinch flats. What PSI are you running? How much do you weight? All this needs to be taken into consideration. I just changed my Mythos to Hutchinson Pythons w/ Stan's. I run 32 and 35 psi front/back. I did the same w/ the Mythos and absolutely no problems.
A Stan's scoop weighs 60 grams and is plenty for most tires and conditions (cross country). Just save your time and buy a pint of Stan's for $15 or thereabouts plus shipping. Or go down to your LBS and grab some right now and get it over with. This stuff is proven. I don't wanna sound like an ad but why would you go out and buy moldbuilder and Slime and mix with water and hope to God that it works. Just take it easy on yourself and use what works. Slime is not properly formulated to seal regular tires, it works best inside innertubes. I'm just trying to be helpful, not trying to plug Stan's, but it's just the easiest thing to do.
What sort of bad history? I'm running Conti's and have no problem whatsoever with Stan's kit. Stan even recommends contis for use with his kit. Those and hutchinsons seem to be his favorites. I think there is a lot of voodoo witchcraft type talk about the tubeless conversions. I've never had any trouble though.
What sort of bad history? I'm running Conti's and have no problem whatsoever with Stan's kit. Stan even recommends contis for use with his kit. Those and hutchinsons seem to be his favorites. I think there is a lot of voodoo witchcraft type talk about the tubeless conversions. I've never had any trouble though.
The latex wear down the sidewall of the Conti's, then they explode. I have not had this happen to me, but plenty of people have. The natural rubber of the Conti's do not react well
with the amonia(sp?) in the latex solution. Good Luck!
Sounds like bunk to me. I've got 2 sets of contis I use depending on race conditions and the sidewalls of both sets are in great shape after months of being in contact with the latex. Considering that a lot of Continental employees are running stans sealant, the cannondale team which is sponsored by continental are running stans sealant, I think the problems with tires that have been seen are an anomoly. First, latex is rubber, so you've got rubber and rubber. Since rubber is a natural product, it needs something in it as a preservative, which is what the ammonia is. Also, the ammonia that is in the stans kit is really low, like .01%, and that evaporates out of the tires in a day or so after pouring the sealant in. Ever notice you can't smell it when you open the tire back up? That's cause the ammonia has passed out of the tire. So the idea that ammonia is somehow attacking the sidewalls ... eh? Cmon. Ammonia can degrade rubber, but the rubber it degrades is called Butyl, which is not natural rubber. What is probably really happening is when they attach the rubber to the nylon cords in the sidewall they use a latex adhesive to make the nylon tacky so the rubber will stick, and sometimes that stuff lets go which allows the air inside the tire to pass into the corded section of the tire, which will then create a weak spot that results in a blowout. That, or people are overinflating their tires and then looking for someone to blame when their tire blows out... humans? Failing to take the blame for screwing up? Naaaaa!
Sounds like bunk to me. I've got 2 sets of contis I use depending on race conditions and the sidewalls of both sets are in great shape after months of being in contact with the latex. Considering that a lot of Continental employees are running stans sealant, the cannondale team which is sponsored by continental are running stans sealant, I think the problems with tires that have been seen are an anomoly. First, latex is rubber, so you've got rubber and rubber. Since rubber is a natural product, it needs something in it as a preservative, which is what the ammonia is. Also, the ammonia that is in the stans kit is really low, like .01%, and that evaporates out of the tires in a day or so after pouring the sealant in. Ever notice you can't smell it when you open the tire back up? That's cause the ammonia has passed out of the tire. So the idea that ammonia is somehow attacking the sidewalls ... eh? Cmon. Ammonia can degrade rubber, but the rubber it degrades is called Butyl, which is not natural rubber. What is probably really happening is when they attach the rubber to the nylon cords in the sidewall they use a latex adhesive to make the nylon tacky so the rubber will stick, and sometimes that stuff lets go which allows the air inside the tire to pass into the corded section of the tire, which will then create a weak spot that results in a blowout. That, or people are overinflating their tires and then looking for someone to blame when their tire blows out... humans? Failing to take the blame for screwing up? Naaaaa!
..............................................................................
Do a search on the board, several people have had this problem. I have Conti's on two sets of wheels and i love them. One with tubes and one without.(almond Joy has nuts Mounds don't). Good luck.
Yeah but not all users of stans are on this board, so to take the ones who have reported it on here as confirmation of a hypothesis would be an error. I love my contis too. If I demolish one and I think it was the stans that caused it, I'll fess up. In the meantime I'll keep running them because these tires hook up like nobody's business!!
Wow a cup of sealant. Sounds like you kind of did your own thing there. As far as the Slime goes, Stans Kit comes with Latex sealant. I would suggest that if you use Stans to not deviate from the directions and stick with the stuff that comes with the kit. If in your case you got the rim strips from a friend, you can still order the stans latex online. When you buy the stans kit, it will come with directions on how to install.
I have installed Stans No Tubes on my bike in accordance with the directions and have not had any problems. My setup is with non ust tires and rims.
That's what I'll do. After a day of sitting, they started holding air, but once I started riding, the green stuff started weeping out of 1000 pores in my sidewalls. The bead seems to be hold tough. I did a quick 30 min ride (one loop) of my regular trail and they performed awesome. I did though, have to stop 1/2 way after I heard the rim hit some rocks (!!) and put in a C02 so I could finish my ride. Maybe it's the placebo effect, or maybe they do perform better or even a 50/50 mix of the two but either way I rode a lot faster than before, and had a lot more traction. I'm sold on the tubeless, just gotta get it to work. Thanks for the input!
I seem to remember the weight weenies having blowout problems with their superlight Continentals. You guys are probably using more reasonable tires as far as weight and durability is concerned. But I think I remember some of the guys were using models like the Conti Twister Super Sonic that weighed in at something like 350 grams. Now I'm opening myself up for abuse but I just don't understand how you could ever make a tire like that work, period. We have a downhill hear in St. Louis, of all places, that eats 500 gram tires for lunch. I'm talking about punctures and tears in the casing. Even the precious Python Airlite is no match. It has caused many a DNF for unsuspecting victims. I think most people agree the protection series is durable and a good choice for conversion, but I wouldn't know personally. So the ammonia stuff is probably BS as you guys were saying.
Yeah I'm running protection versions of explorers and verticals. I figure a more solid sidewall can't hurt. A twister supersonic would be history on almost any of the trails out here in the KC area. Would that gnarly downhill be chubb by any chance?
I used Mythos XC Kevlars w/ Bontrager Mustang rims w/ out any problems on my HT. I am not sure why you would be getting pinch flats. What PSI are you running? How much do you weight? All this needs to be taken into consideration. I just changed my Mythos to Hutchinson Pythons w/ Stan's. I run 32 and 35 psi front/back. I did the same w/ the Mythos and absolutely no problems.
weight =175lbs
front 45psi, back 50psi
I pinch flatted the rear like 4 times and the front just last week on a root! Damn, I had like 100ft left to go to complete the entire loop - piss me off!
Is there anything special that I need to try the conversion? Other than my current wheelset/tires? I assume the rim tape needs to be removed? I am going to buy Stand kit. Anyone know of a cheaper deal than $60 (PricePoint)?
Quick question: which rims are better Sun SingleTrack, Rhyno Lite XL, Mavic X223? I guess I'm just looking to waste money on new rims, unless I can be convinced otherwise...
Yeah I'm running protection versions of explorers and verticals. I figure a more solid sidewall can't hurt. A twister supersonic would be history on almost any of the trails out here in the KC area. Would that gnarly downhill be chubb by any chance?
I'm talking about the Grotpeter downhill at Castlewood. I got three flats going down that thing in a training race last year. On the last lap I double flatted at the top of the hill on a section with notoriously sharp rocks. For some reason I felt macho, so I ran about a mile down the hill to finish the race. I was wearing Sidis so it felt like I was running over the rocks in pumps. I could barely move my legs the next day after that experience. Now I use Stans in my tires and avoid all those shenanigans.
Last time I rode that downhill was about 10 years ago, back when they had first put in the water bars and they were just rubber flaps you ignored going down. Sounds like it's changed a lot. I don't know how gnarly it is but if you want some super gnarr, come out to KC for the next race at landahl, july 25 I think. That is some insane technical.
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