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cadence- consideration for SS?

3K views 17 replies 12 participants last post by  NordieBoy 
#1 ·
I've never used a cadence sensor or really given it much thought. I've ridden singlespeed bikes almost exclusively my whole life, so I am used to pedaling "as fast as needed in the moment, grinding the uphills and spinning out/ coasting the downhills on road or trail.

Is there any use in recording cadence on either of my bikes? (SS mtb for trails and SSCX for roads/ light trail) what might that data tell you?

If it's of any use, I might try to acquire a cadence sensor. I don't think anything will work with my Fitbit Surge, but something more analog or a phone app might work.
 
#4 ·
I use cadence to help me figure out gearing for future races. I make notes on my strava about how I felt on the uphills, how much time spent spinning out in singlespeed purgatory, and if I was properly recovered. It has come in handy for that aspect, but I typically find I'm pretty close with my guesses unless it is "sneaky hilly" without good flow.

All that being said, I'm a data nerd and love that aspect of the post ride analysis, so YMMV
 
#5 ·
I use cadence to help me figure out gearing for future races. I make notes on my strava about how I felt on the uphills, how much time spent spinning out in singlespeed purgatory, and if I was properly recovered. It has come in handy for that aspect, but I typically find I'm pretty close with my guesses unless it is "sneaky hilly" without good flow.

All that being said, I'm a data nerd and love that aspect of the post ride analysis, so YMMV
I love the idea. I'm trying to figure out gearing for a race with 16 miles of singletrack and the rest gravel 45 total miles. This data would be fantastic.

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#6 ·
Personally I have no cadence or power data on my SS, especially not when racing. I train with a Quarq and love it, and Ill race road with power. I might even consider mountain bike racing with power and cadence racing on a geared bike, but not my SS. Mainly so I don't get into my own head. Racing a SS it is what it is, you have to spin your ass off at times and at other times you are putting down more watts than you really want to know. IMO RPE is the only way to SS...
 
#7 ·
Being primarily a SS'er, I have never cared about cadence. I do exactly what jbell describes. That said, since I started doing more structured training on my geared MTB, I put a cadence sensor on it so I could start to understand my cadence, and what it means for me in terms of effort and speed. I am a "masher", and tend to push a heavy gear even on a geared bike, but am working on spinning more, because that is a weakness of mine. So watching my cadence helps me get out of my "SS rut" of heavy, low cadence mashing. I also just got a cadence sensor for my new LES SS, which will be my race bike, and I want to see what various kinds of rides or training sets, along with different gearings (cogs) look like in terms of my SS cadence.

Probably TMI, but it's a new-to-me data set that is rather interesting to play around with and see different cause-and-effects.
 
#16 ·
So here is my Training Peaks graph from my ride yesterday, on my LES SS. It was a tough, 4-hour ride, with some tough climbing. My gearing is 34x19.

So I'm curious: What does this tell those of you that know (or have thought) more about this than I do? I just put the cadence sensor on my SS last week, so this data element is brand new to me (for SS). Gear too tall? Too low? Etc...



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#8 ·
There was a time when the majority of my riding was spent on the various road bikes I have owned over the years and considered cadence more useful than speed. I found being able to smoothly spin up to 130rpm was a valuable skill when riding my SS MTB.

For me personally, I see no reason for watching cadence on a SS MTB, but if it floats your boat. I can definitely see it as a useful training tool on your SSCX where you are more apt to ride places you can maintain the same speed and effort for longer distances. Try to ride at a constant 90rpm for 5 miles. For most mountain bikers that spend nearly all their time riding on dirt, it will prove difficult.
 
#9 ·
I can definitely see your point. I normally only run one gear and make it work. If I raced more I think just having a reference on what you thought after the race would be useful. Was the gear too hard, too easy, or just right?

I also love the cadence sensor on my road bike and dont use it at all for any on a mtb.

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#10 ·
My cadence sensor tells me that for SS riding I'm averaging about 60% pedalling time on a ride. Geared, more like 75-80%.
Cadence too high? Too low? Numbers will tell you. Especially combined with HR. Going anaerobic too often? Not at all? Going anaerobic when spinning but not grinding? Or the opposite?

I use cadence on road, gravel, full suss geared bikes and on the SS's.

I look at cadence a lot when training and not at all when racing.
AFTER the race however, I'm all over the data. To me it's an added dimension.

I'm not racing for 1st, just trying to be as fast as I can with what I've got.
 
#11 ·
I did a 100 mile MTB race a few years back and used cadence. It was more out of curiosity to see what I might learn. In this case my gear was to big. It turns out it just further enforced what I already concluded. I also used cadence as a number to focus on to keep my speed up.

https://www.strava.com/activities/1041616977

I found it helpful for Gravel SSCX it finding out the what cadence I am comfortable at and what my upper cadence limit is. Both answers were hard for me to get by guessing maybe I am just poor at estimating my cadence.
 
#15 ·
I did a 100 mile MTB race a few years back and used cadence. It was more out of curiosity to see what I might learn. In this case my gear was to big. It turns out it just further enforced what I already concluded. I also used cadence as a number to focus on to keep my speed up.
I find looking at my cadence mid race will help me keep my speed up as well. I signed up for the lutsen 99er SS. I raced it 3 years ago with a 32t elliptical paired to an 11-40 cassette and found myself spinning out a lot in the gravel pace line sections, yet using that 40 to get myself up the final climb. I'm leaning towards my go-to 34/17 gearing, but lots of guys are pushing even bigger gears. Time will tell!
 
#12 ·
Nah, I don't worry about cadence on the SS; sometimes I ride places where I can really spin fast, other times, I pick places that require standing which is going to be slow going......I only worry about cadence on the fully-geared bike.........
 
#13 ·
I use a smart trainer and it's taught me a lot about cadence and power. One interesting thing is high cadence. There are a lot of times you're close to being spun out on a SS and it feels like a waste of energy. It's been very interesting to see just how much power is generated when spinning that fast, even though hardly any force is being exerted on the pedals.
 
#14 ·
If you have a good way to aggregate and view historical data I could see cadence data helping to make more informed gear choices. If you find yourself spinning > XXX for more than 50% of the ride its time to gear up or something like that. Where XXX falls is probably more about you, but I like knowing that kind of stuff as well. I wonder if I have a cadence sensor I could put on my bike. Though looking at 20 rpm on a climb is probably as sad as looking at 12 mph on a long flat haha.
 
#17 ·
I've never actually used a cadence sensor. But I think what I would look at is cadence vs heart rate vs speed.

Like you I am a "masher". Someone once described it to me as using my legs to get up hills rather than my heart, I kind of like that. But a sustained period with a high heart rate can end pretty badly for me, especially if its in a race. So if I see things in my rides like a period of relatively constant speed, high heart rate and high cadence that could be a red flag that I should try gearing taller. I can see a section like that on your graph but your heart rate is not too bad at all, so I would guess you are probably pretty good??

Basically we all can feel these periods of being spun out, but I wonder if you could see it in the data before it comes to that. From there you can look at unfamiliar course details and maybe extrapolate what kind of gearing you want a little better?
 
#18 ·
Yep. High HR but low Cad? Check back to the previous exertion/hill, did you hit that one a bit too hard?
HR going up, Spd and Cad going down, could be heat or maybe nutrition related.

Find the lowest Cad you can grind up the biggest hill with and see if you ever get that low in a race. If not, then maybe gearing up is an option.

The good thing with numbers, is you can do a test (like the Cad & hill one) and apply it to previous rides, not just rides after the test.

I look at Cad/HR. Everything else is just for information after the fact.
My Edge also shows Time, Spd, Dist, Elevation gain, but the 2 numbers on the top of every screen are HR and Cad.
During a race, HR is upmost in my mind. Keeping it in a zone I know I can sustain for the length of the race. During training, Cad comes into play.
If I keep my Cad in this zone, my HR is stable, above, HR goes up, below, HR goes up. That sort of thing.
Only using low Cad a few times on a ride and no walking involved? Gear up.

Speed is also useful on a SS in that after a descent when you're not pedalling, I use speed to indicate when it's safe to start pedalling again up the other side :) No use starting to pedal again when you're just spinning air at 120rpm...

The above may or may not make sense. It went from my hind-brain to my typing fingers without much fore-brain involvement.
 
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