Just got ripped off and need advice- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Stupid is, as stupid does
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    Just got ripped off and need advice

    So I purchased a fork from the pink bike classifieds. It was advertised as a 2009 fox 36 RC2 Talas 160mm with 3-4 hours of use. I paid $650 shipped. What I received yesterday was a 2005-06 Fox 36 RC2 Talas 150mm. This fork is beat to ****, heavily scratched and gouged.Funny enough the dials are faded from the sun (didn't even know that could happen). I contacted him immediately. Still no word and I sent another e-mail today. I opened a case with paypal as well. When I paid through paypal I used my CC. The paypal account is his mothers (He is 20) The phone I had is for his mothers business. My question is what else can I do? I live in VT and want to fly to CA on monday to beat him (I am a very peaceful man) But I know that isn't the way to handle it. I know it's the weekend as well so I don't want to trash him on PB and report him there. I feel I should wait until monday evening to give him a chance. Someone at work told me I can report him to my police department for fraud amnd they will contact the poilice dept out there. Is this true. Anything else I can do? Any experience, wisdom, words to clam me will be appreciated.
    What I have learned is to ask for detailed pics, get first & last name plus mailing address, and get phone #. I have been wheeling and dealing with bike parts for years on e-bay, craigslist, and these two forums. I have never had a bad experince before. Very frustrating that my community has now been tainted
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  2. #2
    RIS
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    In most states, an assault is only a misdemeanor, as long as you don't break any bones or give him a concussion.

    Also, the bail is usually pretty cheap, and they probably won't extradite for it.

  3. #3
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    Seriously dude, the punk pulled that sort of $hit and you don't want to trash him on pink bike Why the fvck now, he's a dishonest piece of $hit to pull a move like that and everyone should know it. It's not like he "accidentally" shipped you a trashed fork instead of the "almost new" one promised. Post on pink bike and e-mail him, if he doesn't respond by Monday let him know you will be reporting this fraud case to the cops and he can then deal with it from there.
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  4. #4
    thecentralscrutinizer
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    If it was misrepresented, PayPal will get your money back...You'll be okay.

  5. #5
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    yes dispute it with paypall
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say. Joshua Stinebrink

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  6. #6
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    Where I think your wrong is thinking you shouldn't fly out and kick the crap out of this loser. You may be a peaceful person but it would make you feel sooo much better, even if you didn't get your money back.

  7. #7
    Single Speed Junkie
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    Put it in dispute and post the situation on PB detailing all the facts. You might want to beat the s*** out of the guy and that is understandable, but saying that is not going to resolve the matter.

    Let him know you expect a full refund and however he intends to get the fork back is up to him as it was fraudulently represented. For example he should issue a call tag and have the thing picked up at you house at no cost to you. It is BS when people pull this stuff and consumers need a means of protecting them selves. If he ends up eating the cost on this fraud then maybe it will teach him not to pull this crap again.

  8. #8
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    trash the punk on pinkbike, call the cops, AND report his @$$ to paypal. He had his chance to be honest, and that was when he posted the ad in the first place. now he's shafted you and it's time for Karma to bite back.

  9. #9
    Stay thirsty my friends
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    Yes call the cops, they will place this very important fraud case at the top of their list.

    Get your money back through Paypal.
    "Say good night to the bad guy."
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x_TE...eature=related

  10. #10
    RIS
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4JawChuck
    Yes call the cops, they will place this very important fraud case at the top of their list.
    Your gift of sarcasm is not lost on me.

    For everyone else, the police do not sit around twiddling their thumbs, just waiting to be summoned into service as a free 24-hour debt-collection entity, after some wheeler-dealer's latest interstate internet transaction turns into a civil matter.

    Those reports get filed right next to the "he stole my dope" reports.

  11. #11
    AZ
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    Dispute with Paypal , out him on every forum you can log on to , starting with this one . Post all his info on a male seeking male site etc. Just make his very existence pure misery .

  12. #12
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    Good old PayPal.....good luck getting a resolution from those scam artists; they got their cut, so you're SOL. Has it ever occurred to anyone why there are hundreds of thousands of complaints of internet rip offs that involve PayPal and e-bay???

  13. #13
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    Not to Woryy, you'll be fine that you paid with PayPal. Don't worry, it'll just take a little bit of time.....

  14. #14
    Eff U Gee Em
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    Dispute it with your CC company too, PP might pay more attention to it when they're out their $$ too.

  15. #15
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    I read the thread under the photo of said fork, and got the impression the seller might be less of a scammer and more of an idiot. I'm guessing the scare from paypal will get you your cash back.

  16. #16
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    Contrary to what most nay-sayers have to say about problem resolution with PayPal, I have found them to be pretty good about fixing it. I have dealt with a couple of situations through them and both were resolved to my satisfaction (i.e., getting my money back)
    Do the PayPal thing.

  17. #17
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    Make a plan to trash his Mother's business. He may not give a **** but I'm sure that Mommy does.

  18. #18
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    I bet paypal wont help

    they double paid a purchase I made years ago(bike) 750.00 dolla, and they told me get bent, send the guy a money request 4 years later still no money, oh and it was also a eBay purchase.

    I forget about until I read about another scam.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    Dispute with Paypal , out him on every forum you can log on to , starting with this one . Post all his info on a male seeking male site etc. Just make his very existence pure misery .

    Geeze AZ, is this the post that sent you to ban camp? Hope it's a very short stay.

  20. #20
    Unfit Norwegian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneescar
    Make a plan to trash his Mother's business. He may not give a **** but I'm sure that Mommy does.
    Why not call his mom and ask for an explaination. Hey; that's the phone number you were given, right?

  21. #21
    ...idios...
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    Geeze AZ, is this the post that sent you to ban camp? Hope it's a very short stay.
    Pay attention. AZ's in Bann Camp, not ban camp.

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    So I purchased a fork from the pink bike classifieds.
    Take the Paypal dispute to it's conclusion, you'll get a response when he notices that his bank account is short a few Benjamins.

    Include all the details you can think of, including a copy of the Pink Bike page if it's still there and any messages/emails you've have sent/received. Paypal dispute tend to take a while to sort out, you need to be persistent but as the buyer they tend to side with you.

    PS, unless paypal ask you to send it back, keep the fork.
    PPS, if you can, contact his parents. They'll probably be unimpressed to hear this.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    Pay attention. AZ's in Bann Camp, not ban camp.
    Gee, I don't know what they teach in UK schools, but bann is not a word that remotely defines anything to do with censorship......

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaARNP
    Gee, I don't know what they teach in UK schools, but bann is not a word that remotely defines anything to do with censorship......
    I think we have crossed wires somewhere. Was your first post not a reference to AZ being banned? It says Bannned under his username, not banned (as it would if he had been banned by admin).

    What use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings? -
    Diogenes


  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    I think we have crossed wires somewhere. Was your first post not a reference to AZ being banned? It says Bannned under his username, not banned (as it would if he had been banned by admin).

    Yes, I can see clearly now, 3 N's...."will they still need me, will they still feed me, when I'm 64?"

  26. #26
    gunslinger
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    Buying used isn't always cheap.

  27. #27
    Mal Ad Osteo
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    Forget PayPal. Start a dispute ASAP with your CC company. Get charges reversed, document the case with pictures, etc in case he whines. Send the fork back to him, but address it to his mothers' business.
    Make sure she sees what is going on, and that her son doesn't weasel out of it.

    Disputing w/ PayPal should be a last resort. 9/10 times they will side with the seller, its just how they do it(as they get paid via the seller, not the buyer).

    Also, leave LOTS of negative feedback for him on here and PinkBike. Make sure people know he is a scammer. If he denies doing anything wrong, take it up with his mother and her business. Since it was her account and her business, you can probably smear her as well if needed.

    As for going to the cops, they are going to be about as helpful as PayPal. Sometimes they will look into contacting local PD for you, but usually not unless its $1000 or more.


    Threatening him with feedback from PinkBike/local PD/his mothers' business/PayPal account = instant fix IMO.

  28. #28
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    ^^I wouldn't go that far. (if I recall) when you sign up for eBay/PayPal, you agree to let them address issues before you get the cc company involved (i.e you are contractually bound to do so). I would see what PP has to say first, as you could make the situation messier for yourself by involving the cc co. as a first resort.

    Careful about doing anything to his mother/her business (aside from possibly contacting her and politely informing her of the issue)- you don't want her to get the impression you are harassing her or her son. I do think it is a good idea to let people here and on pink know what he did.

    Definitely document every step (including every agent at Paypal, the cc co, etc that you speak with) and take pictures.
    Now go home and get your ******* shinebox.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by somsom
    Forget PayPal. Start a dispute ASAP with your CC company.

    Agree 100%.....one time our refrigerator broke and so I called a local repair guy. He came out, swapped some parts, then charged us $400 bucks. I charged the repairs on my Mastercard.....

    He left the fridge in worst shape than it was.....the guy cme out 4 times and couldn't fix the damn thing.....he refused to refund our money.....

    I disputed the charge and the CC got me off the hook (I didn't have to pay it)

  30. #30
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    If he doesn't have the funds in his account, PayPal will get you NOTHING.

    Dispute the charge with your CC company. They will take care of you.

  31. #31
    Mal Ad Osteo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColdAudio
    If he doesn't have the funds in his account, PayPal will get you NOTHING.

    Dispute the charge with your CC company. They will take care of you.
    Exactly my point. If he has already "spent" the funds, then you are SOL unless you do a charge back on your CC

  32. #32
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    This blows man. I found your post over at pinkbike and saw that link where he completely ignored other users telling him that that wasn't the fork he was advertising. Too bad you didn't see that thread before hand =\ . I would get a hold of everyone possible to set up fraud charges. Your police dept, the one out there, get in contact with your CC company, paypal, the more the better. I hope you get you money back and hope that the kids mom kicks his ass. Or, better yet, takes his bike away lol.

  33. #33
    RIS
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    Quote Originally Posted by osmarandsara
    Agree 100%.....one time our refrigerator broke and so I called a local repair guy. He came out, swapped some parts, then charged us $400 bucks. I charged the repairs on my Mastercard.....

    He left the fridge in worst shape than it was.....the guy cme out 4 times and couldn't fix the damn thing.....he refused to refund our money.....

    I disputed the charge and the CC got me off the hook (I didn't have to pay it)

    So let me see if I have this straight:

    Your refrigerator breaks down.

    The repair guy comes out and works on it.

    It still doesn't work.

    So you gave him $400?

    I think there's something missing from this story.

  34. #34
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    Ebay does nothing to help you really. I had a similar experience once one an $85 car part on Ebay once and I learned something: Never pay more for something that you're willing to cheerfully lose if the guy is not legit.

    I've heard that if you pay with a USPS money order that if he's scamming you it becomes a federal mail fraud offense. Not sure if that's true, but I try to pay that way anyway. The only time I ever used PayPal they had the seller ship to my old address I'd just moved out of instead of my new address because the old address was still the official billing address. Didn't notify me or anything. When I went back for house closing I found my $600 worth of airplane parts sitting on the back porch. I was slightly pi$$ed.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaARNP
    Good old PayPal.....good luck getting a resolution from those scam artists; they got their cut, so you're SOL. Has it ever occurred to anyone why there are hundreds of thousands of complaints of internet rip offs that involve PayPal and e-bay???
    I respectfully disagaree. I had a very similar issue and am so happy I paid using Paypal. After they looked into my dispute I had a 100% refund including shipping charges after only 5 days. They can have a small % on transactions from me. Happy to pay for additional security.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pollution Warrior
    The only time I ever used PayPal they had the seller ship to my old address I'd just moved out of instead of my new address because the old address was still the official billing address. Didn't notify me or anything. When I went back for house closing I found my $600 worth of airplane parts sitting on the back porch. I was slightly pi$$ed.
    Shouldn't you be the one to notifiy them that you moved and not them notifying you that you moved???
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  37. #37
    Stucco Bucket
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    Paypal has always come through for me. been a member for 10 years now.
    Did you get pics of the fork beforehand?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    So let me see if I have this straight:

    Your refrigerator breaks down.

    The repair guy comes out and works on it.

    It still doesn't work.

    So you gave him $400?

    I think there's something missing from this story.

    A refrigerator takes about 24 hrs until you know its working OK. When it broke down, he charged me $400 bucks for parts and labor on his first visit....he said give it a day for it to adjust to the settings. I waited but the next day, the fridge still would not get cold. I called him and he came back out. He spent another hour working on it, swapped some more parts and said it was NOW really fixed.

    Two days later, the fridge got way too cold, freezing my milk and my Budweiser Amercan Ale, I call the guy he comes back out. I'm starting to get a bit pissed at this point but I was already out $400, so I gave him a chance to keep working on the fridge. Wastes another hour of his time and my time. Says OK, now its REALLY fixed. A few hours after he leaves, my water dispenser stops working, I call the guy again. He comes back out with his manager, they both spend another hour on the fridge. They swap more parts, they agree not to charge me for the additional parts due to the inconvenience. I say fine.

    One week later, the water dispenser freezes up and now I have no ice in the ice-maker......

    I call the company and they offer to come back out.....I said "The f**K you will, give me my money back NOW...... they say no.

    I immediately called my CC company and they were really surprised how patient I had been with these guys......they told me not to worry about the charges...

  39. #39
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    So a fork was ordered and a refrigerator was shipped?

  40. #40
    Stupid is, as stupid does
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    Well here is an update. Buyer protection through paypal is absolutely useless. It only works if the purchase is made through e-bay. I am now going to attempt to open a case with my CC card. I am on hold with them right now. I have heard back from the guy briefly. He asked me to wait a week or two because he just left on vacation. I found him on facebook and he was talking about his brand new Iphone and the new intense frame that he just purchased. I really hope all that wasn't purchased with my money. I haven't heard back from the mother yet as well. I am beginning to feel like a stalker so I composed one final e-mail and sent it both to him and the mother saying I just need to know a date when the payment will be refunded and where I can ship the fork back to. After talking to my local PD it kind of sounds as if filing a Police report in San Diego will not help very much but at least the threat of it may still help me. I will still attempt to file it on wednesday with sandiego PD. But to all of you be forewarned when purchasing through classifieds paypal offers ZERO protection But they did say to me that they are working on it.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    Put it in dispute and post the situation on PB detailing all the facts. You might want to beat the s*** out of the guy and that is understandable, but saying that is not going to resolve the matter.

    Let him know you expect a full refund and however he intends to get the fork back is up to him as it was fraudulently represented. For example he should issue a call tag and have the thing picked up at you house at no cost to you. It is BS when people pull this stuff and consumers need a means of protecting them selves. If he ends up eating the cost on this fraud then maybe it will teach him not to pull this crap again.
    X2 and don't send the fork back until you have ALL of you money including shipping fully refunded!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdAudio
    If he doesn't have the funds in his account, PayPal will get you NOTHING.

    Dispute the charge with your CC company. They will take care of you.
    Yes, CC....paypal is useless and can take months if they do anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Your gift of sarcasm is not lost on me.

    For everyone else, the police do not sit around twiddling their thumbs, just waiting to be summoned into service as a free 24-hour debt-collection entity, after some wheeler-dealer's latest interstate internet transaction turns into a civil matter.

    Those reports get filed right next to the "he stole my dope" reports.
    Could I get my dope back?

    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    Well here is an update. Buyer protection through paypal is absolutely useless. It only works if the purchase is made through e-bay. I am now going to attempt to open a case with my CC card. I am on hold with them right now. I have heard back from the guy briefly. He asked me to wait a week or two because he just left on vacation. I found him on facebook and he was talking about his brand new Iphone and the new intense frame that he just purchased. I really hope all that wasn't purchased with my money. I haven't heard back from the mother yet as well. I am beginning to feel like a stalker so I composed one final e-mail and sent it both to him and the mother saying I just need to know a date when the payment will be refunded and where I can ship the fork back to. After talking to my local PD it kind of sounds as if filing a Police report in San Diego will not help very much but at least the threat of it may still help me. I will still attempt to file it on wednesday with sandiego PD. But to all of you be forewarned when purchasing through classifieds paypal offers ZERO protection But they did say to me that they are working on it.
    DO NOT WAIT....everyday delayed while he's on "vacation" or whatever the **** hes' doing is your money getting farther away! Keep us posted on the outcome and hope it goes well for you.
    Get off the couch and ride! :)

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagenhay
    Shouldn't you be the one to notifiy them that you moved and not them notifying you that you moved???
    I did. I entered the address I wanted the stuff shipped to and they sent it to the billing address automatically in spite of what I'd entered for that purchase. At least that's how I remember it anyway. That was March of 2005.

  43. #43
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    I stand corrected. I am shocked that PayPal doesn't protect non-eBay transactions, which basically means there is absolutely no point in using it if off-eBay, except for sellers who are unable to process cc transactions (probably a vast majority).

    Who is this horrific seller? Its time to let the cat out of the bag...
    Now go home and get your ******* shinebox.

  44. #44
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    Sorry if the OP didn't want this to be linked, but here

    http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listco...hreadid=105689

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by truble911
    I respectfully disagaree. I had a very similar issue and am so happy I paid using Paypal. After they looked into my dispute I had a 100% refund including shipping charges after only 5 days. They can have a small % on transactions from me. Happy to pay for additional security.

    It appears that more than a few posts respectfully disagree with you.

  46. #46
    RIS
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    I lost about $700 on a deal that Paypal should have taken care of me on. I crossed every "T" and dotted every "I", and they used a technicality buried in their boiler plate to get away with it.

  47. #47
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    Post up his mother's business info. I'm sure a few people will have some creative fun!
    CRAP... I'm in the wrong gear

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    So I purchased a fork from the pink bike classifieds. It was advertised as a 2009 fox 36 RC2 Talas 160mm with 3-4 hours of use. I paid $650 shipped. What I received yesterday was a 2005-06 Fox 36 RC2 Talas 150mm. This fork is beat to ****, heavily scratched and gouged.Funny enough the dials are faded from the sun (didn't even know that could happen). I contacted him immediately. Still no word and I sent another e-mail today. I opened a case with paypal as well. When I paid through paypal I used my CC. The paypal account is his mothers (He is 20) The phone I had is for his mothers business. My question is what else can I do? I live in VT and want to fly to CA on monday to beat him (I am a very peaceful man) But I know that isn't the way to handle it. I know it's the weekend as well so I don't want to trash him on PB and report him there. I feel I should wait until monday evening to give him a chance. Someone at work told me I can report him to my police department for fraud amnd they will contact the poilice dept out there. Is this true. Anything else I can do? Any experience, wisdom, words to clam me will be appreciated.
    What I have learned is to ask for detailed pics, get first & last name plus mailing address, and get phone #. I have been wheeling and dealing with bike parts for years on e-bay, craigslist, and these two forums. I have never had a bad experince before. Very frustrating that my community has now been tainted
    A. Keep calling his mother. She'll get sick of it soon enough, and it's not your fault. He gave you her number.

    B. Tell him you're going to drop by personally. On eBay this works great because you have their actual address. Don't threaten them, just say "Hey, a couple of friends of mine are going to come with me, we're travelling in the area, and I'll just stop by your shop and return it in person." That works wonders... an angry person on the internet is one thing, in person is quite another.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    In most states, an assault is only a misdemeanor, as long as you don't break any bones or give him a concussion.

    Also, the bail is usually pretty cheap, and they probably won't extradite for it.
    oK, but... know the difference between assault and battery. That's important. Assault is basically just a threat.

  50. #50
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    There's lots of people on this site who live in CA, maybe someone will help you out! Us mtbr's gotta watch each others backs.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyknitty
    oK, but... know the difference between assault and battery. That's important. Assault is basically just a threat.
    Maybe in your state it is...

    In many states, an actual physical assault resulting in injury or pain is referred to as an "assault", and there are separate offenses for threatening by word or conduct.

    There are also separate offenses relating to physically touching someone in a way that does not result in physical injury or pain (like landing a punch that didn't do anything).

    Domestic violence offenses are usually listed off by themselves.

    I'm not advocating that he do anything illegal. I'm just pointing out that the actual consequences are probably slight, if any.

  52. #52
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    take a step back and be realistic.

    if you get a chargeback from your credit card.. you got a free fork and paid nothing for it, effectively ripping the guy off. if you do a chargeback, you are obligated to ship him back the fork with a signature confirmation to verify he received it back. if you dont, you're now the thief and can be charged with credit card and mail fraud. use this as your very very last resort, and follow the advice of your credit card company when doing so.

    its sketchy doing charge backs for private sales. ive spoken with the police department about this specifically. its basically illegal to do a chargeback with the item in your possession. to do it right and legally, you'll first need to be out a fork (returned to owner and confirmed) and out your money, and then rely on your CC to get it back for you.

    look where paypal stands on private sales. if they returned the money to everyone who filed a claim, it would be fraud heaven. you could just buy anything anyones selling anywhere and then claim its not what they said. your word against theirs. its like paying in cash! if you get ripped off in cash, you're boned. same with paypal, except they'll marginally help you more.. dont blame paypal.

    paypal does and will cover items on ebay. read their policy about it, its very clear, easy, and helpful. i was ripped off on a frame and got every cent back. went fast too. you just need to follow their fairly clear policy about what is and what isnt covered (theres a few easy rules.. in short, buy from verified sellers and always use shipping confirmation no matter what the dollar amount).

    best advice.. call the dumb kids mom. i bet his mommy will be very mad his son is defrauding people on the internet under her name and you'll have the money back in a second. being civil and taking the least drastic path first is the best option, and in this case will probably be the most effective (the cops dont give half a **** about your bicycle anyway).

    id be really surprised if his mom didnt want to play ball, especially when you have her personal information and work contacts.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    take a step back and be realistic.

    if you get a chargeback from your credit card.. you got a free fork and paid nothing for it, effectively ripping the guy off. if you do a chargeback, you are obligated to ship him back the fork with a signature confirmation to verify he received it back. if you dont, you're now the thief and can be charged with credit card and mail fraud. use this as your very very last resort, and follow the advice of your credit card company when doing so.

    its sketchy doing charge backs for private sales. ive spoken with the police department about this specifically. its basically illegal to do a chargeback with the item in your possession. to do it right and legally, you'll first need to be out a fork (returned to owner and confirmed) and out your money, and then rely on your CC to get it back for you.
    I had to do this on a fault frame last year. The frame was brand new from the OEM and had the rear triangle damaged. When I called the owner offered to sell a new rear triangle replacing the damaged one originally shipped. At that point we were pretty much at a stand still. Keeping a long story short I did a charge back legally and informed them that the frame is sitting waiting for a pickup. They kept refusing to cover shipping for fault product and I am less than inclined to pay for faulty product either direction. In the end he did end up sending a call tag and I got 100% of my money back.

    If someone knowing sends you trash then they should expect to pickup the tab both directions. At no point should the buyer be held accountable for shipment of fradulent representation of a product. Let him and his mom know know the facts and let them pick up the tab for shipping both directions. After all it sounds as if you have zero intentions of using this fork regardless. Your CC company will support you, just forward them a copy of all interactionactions and conversations with the seller of which you should already have copies.

    The seller is a crook bottom line. Your still in the clear and well within your ethical rights at this point in refusing to invest additional funds in this fork and person shipping it anywhere. Only time I would start questioning your ethical integrity is if you ended up getting a refund and using the fork at a later date, then that would be considered fraud as well.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwayne5
    Sorry if the OP didn't want this to be linked, but here

    http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listco...hreadid=105689


    No problem. I even found the original ad. Here is a link.

    http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/675442/

    Here are pictures of the fork that I received. Notice that in the ad he states that the fork is basically new with no scratches.

    Also in the very brief conversation that I had with him after I realized that I was ripped off he stated "The fork travel adjustment is all the way in right now. It can't be that old cause I got it on a bike and the guy I got it from uses the same shop as I do and the owner of the shop said they were just put on the bike the week before and that they were brand new"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Just got ripped off and need advice-img_0545.jpg  

    Just got ripped off and need advice-img_0548.jpg  

    Just got ripped off and need advice-img_0549.jpg  

    Just got ripped off and need advice-img_0550.jpg  

    Just got ripped off and need advice-img_0551.jpg  

    Just got ripped off and need advice-img_0552.jpg  

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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhop
    Post up his mother's business info. I'm sure a few people will have some creative fun!
    Yep, I'd be happy to drop her a line.

    I love how he is so ******y:
    From his profile:
    Love riding and have a couple of sponsors and can get people the hook-up on parts!

  56. #56
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    Okay guy's lot's of interesting news and I need a wee bit of advice. I will start with the news.
    -When making non e-bay purchases alway's use your CC as the funding source. This is your only protection as paypal offers zero buyer protection if it is from a classifieds.

    -When opening a dispute with paypal it is a two part process. 1) Opening a dispute which allows a line of communication to be opened. It has a time period of 20 days for a resolution to be agreed upon between seller & buyer. 2) When escaalting the dispute to a claim (On a non-bay purchase) it will be closed instatnly (Due to the pact that paypal does not mediate non ebay purchases) So wait the 20 days before escalating to a claim because it will be instantly closed and the person you are disputing it with will receive a nice email saying that the dispute is closed (Something else I learned the hard way)

    -I did call paypal again after the above mistake and they called the person and let them know that the claim is still open and they sent an e-mail saying that it is still active but once it is closed it cannot be officially opened again.

    -When contacting your CC company inform them that paypal cannot mediate the dispute due to the fact that it is a non ebay purchase and have them start the fraudulent charge process immediately.

    -Paypal gave me two website resources to use: www.ic3.gov & econsumer.gov the first site is pretty scary (In regards to the seriousness of the matter) I haven't made it to the second site yet.

    Now for the shitty part because I know and do these things regularly when making classifieds purchases but I just brain farted this time.

    -Always ask for detailed photo's (above and beyond the pics they provided in the ad)
    -always ask for a detailed description
    (These I haven't done but will always do now)
    -Always ask for a contact phone number and talk to the person to make sure it is correct
    -Always ask for their home address & e-mail
    and to summarize from the above
    -When making classified purchases always use your CC. It is your only protection.
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  57. #57
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    Whoops, almost forgot the advice portion. I was serious about filing a police report in San Diego and today is my deadline. Also the IC3.gov website. Now here is my moral dilemma.
    From digging around this kids facebook page he is a good kid that comes from a good family. He has a lot of nice bikes, jet ski's, goes scuba diving, vacations a nice family (Isn't facebook amazing, Remember to set your privacy controls)
    The dilemma. The kid lied about his age to get a profile up on PB His FB page says he will graduate highschool in 2012. He is just a stupid, priviledged, teenager. I believe that i will get my money refunded from him. I received two messages from him when this all started. Message 1) What's wrong? I'll have to call u in a week or so. Cause I just left on vacation. Message 2) I belive it's not a 2009. I don't believe that it's all beat up. If it's all beat up I can make a claim with ups cause I insured it for650.

    Now from my prior posts we already know that he embellished the backstory about the fork. But I put that off to him being a stupid, spoiled, privelidged, nieve teenager. My dilemma is that he is not responsible at all. The account that I made the payment to is his mothers. The e-mail account is his mothers. I have sent/called multiplle times and haven't heard back. Now in this day and age I do not believe that they cannot get internet access or phone access. But I have been on some vacations where there was nothing for a week: Mexico, S. America, Camping, River trips, etc. So what if the whole problem is the above description of his stupidity and lack of acknowledging the seriousness of this problem and that the mother isn't even aware? By me doing this I will be bringing down a world of sh1t upon the woman. Serious sh1t. I am a very nice person by nature.
    So what should I do guys stick by my guns and file today or wait a week? I really don't know what to do about this portion. My CC company is on top of the money end. This would teach the kid a very good lesson and probably get him grounded for the rest of his life. The parents from what I can tell run there business out of there house. That is the address I would use. Give me good advice my brothers & sisters.
    Last edited by spunkmtb; 08-11-2010 at 08:59 AM.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    Whoops, almost forgot the advice portion. I was serious about filing a police report in San Diego and today is my deadline. Also the IC3.gov website. Now here is my moral dilemma.
    From digging around this kids facebook page he is a good kid that comes from a good family. He has a lot of nice bikes, jet ski's, goes scuba diving, vacations a nice family (Isn't facebook amazing, Remember to set your privacy controls)
    The dilemma. The kid lied about his age to get a profile up on PB His FB page says he will graduate highschool in 2012. He is just a stupid, priviledged, teenager. I believe that i will get my money refunded from him. I received two messages from him when this all started. Message 1) What's wrong? I'll have to call u in a week or so. Cause I just left on vacation. Message 2) I belive it's not a 2009. I don't believe that it's all beat up. If it's all beat up I can make a claim with ups cause I insured it for650.

    Now from my prior posts we already know that he embellished the backstory about the fork. But I put that off to him being a stupid, spoiled, privelidged, nieve teenager. My dilemma is that he is not responsible at all. The account that I made the payment to is his mothers. The e-mail account is his mothers. I have sent/called multiplle times and haven't heard back. Now in this day and age I do not believe that they cannot get internet access or phone access. But I have been on some vacations where there was nothing for a week: Mexico, S. America, Camping, River trips, etc. So what if the whole problem is the above description of his stupidity and lack of acknowledging the seriousness of this problem and that the mother isn't even aware? By me doing this I will be bringing down a world of sh1t upon the woman. Serious sh1t. I am a very nice person by nature.
    So what should I do guys stick by my guns and file today or wait a week? I really don't know what to do about this portion. My CC company is on top of the money end. This would teach the kid a very good lesson and probably get him grounded for the rest of his life. The parents from what I can tell run there business out of there house. That is the address I would use. Give me good advice my brothers & sisters.
    I thought you emailed the mother? Has she not responded? This is his and his mother's problem, not yours. Do what you need to do to get your money back. Let them work out the family dynamic. Be polite in explaining that you are doing what you need to do to get your money back. You can always drop charges if they take care of things.

    I would be careful about trashing him too much on Pinkbike just yet, I don't think it is going to help anything, and may even make him more defensive, and make everything more work for you. I would think that getting his mother on the case is far more effective, and trashing him publicly may make her more protective of him.

    DO NOT waste any time in moving forwards on this.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    I thought you emailed the mother? Has she not responded? This is his and his mother's problem, not yours. Do what you need to do to get your money back. Let them work out the family dynamic. Be polite in explaining that you are doing what you need to do to get your money back. You can always drop charges if they take care of things.

    I would be careful about trashing him too much on Pinkbike just yet, I don't think it is going to help anything, and may even make him more defensive, and make everything more work for you. I would think that getting his mother on the case is far more effective, and trashing him publicly may make her more protective of him.

    DO NOT waste any time in moving forwards on this.

    The mother/son has received multiple e-mails and phone calls from me. I stopped mailing/calling on sunday with my final e-mail saying that today was the deadline. I have not trashed him at all on PB. The only thing I did was post on his board that he was a scammer and do not buy anything. Now it seems that other PB'ers jumped on the band wagon and tore him a new one (I did not encourage this at all and god bless the English cause they are the ones that tore it open) His PB profile http://santacruzboy2.pinkbike.com/
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    You got scammed once and lied to, don't believe the scammer. As said before, get your money back asap and file the report, you already have been nicer than anyone could expect.
    If you don't want to do it for yourself and your 650 bucks, do it for all the others that will get scammed by the guy. Just my 2 ct.

    He has a lot of nice bikes, jet ski's, goes scuba diving, vacations
    At least we know now how he pays for his toys.
    Last edited by cavry; 08-11-2010 at 10:17 AM.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavry
    You got scammed once and lied to, don't believe the scammer. As said before, get your money back asap and file the report, you already have been nicer than anyone could expect.
    If you don't want to do it for yourself and your 650 bucks, do it for all the others that will get scammed by the guy. Just my 2 ct.

    Don't get me wrong. I know I was scammed. but I do not believe that it was intentional. But either way it was a scam and I am ready to blow 1k just to fly out there on knock on the little sh1t's front door. I have done everything i can to get my $$$ back with paypal & CC company. Just wondering if I should be patient in raining down a world of legal hell on the mother or wait a week. Waiting a week won't make a difference in the legal hell it is still gonna come. The money part has all been taken care of as much as possible. CC company said it could be three months before my card is credited. In the mean time the charge is temporarily removed from my card and I am not responsible for any interest on the purchase. Putting all anger aside. Should I at least give them a week taking into account they may actually be on vacation. Or should the legal hell be unleashed now and let the kid & mother come back to legal chaos?
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  62. #62
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    Next time do a little research and ask for better pics.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    Next time do a little research and ask for better pics.
    I think that I already said I always do. This time was a just a total brain fart. I always ask for detailed pics & a detailed description before making a large purchase. I just forgot this time. I needed a fork asap and the adrenaline blocked all my logic circuits in my brain this time.
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    Don't get me wrong. I know I was scammed. but I do not believe that it was intentional. But either way it was a scam and I am ready to blow 1k just to fly out there on knock on the little sh1t's front door. I have done everything i can to get my $$$ back with paypal & CC company. Just wondering if I should be patient in raining down a world of legal hell on the mother or wait a week. Waiting a week won't make a difference in the legal hell it is still gonna come. The money part has all been taken care of as much as possible. CC company said it could be three months before my card is credited. In the mean time the charge is temporarily removed from my card and I am not responsible for any interest on the purchase. Putting all anger aside. Should I at least give them a week taking into account they may actually be on vacation. Or should the legal hell be unleashed now and let the kid & mother come back to legal chaos?
    I am sure that even if you start anything legal now, it will take a while for any of it to makes it's way through the system.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    I needed a fork asap and the adrenaline blocked all my logic circuits in my brain this time.
    It happens. Thats how most people end up with boats on trailers taking up their whole front yard.

    I had something similar happen years ago with a car part. Tried to go through paypal and they said to beat it. I ended up going through my credit card. I did end up getting my money back because what I received wasn't what was pictured. Even though the fork doesn't match the written description it does match the pic. If he posted a pic of an '09 fork and you got what he sent you - I'm sure it would be an open and shut case. Your case is kinda gray and they may try to pin some blame on you by saying you got what was pictured.

    Some of the decision may also end up being based on how long you've been a customer of the CC company and how much you charge annually. They're not allowed to do it that way but I'm damn sure people who charge a ton get the benefit of the doubt more often. Good luck !

  66. #66
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    File the report today. You've given them ample time to respond via phone and e-mail. If the kid is a minor, the situation will resolve itself soon, he will eventually get a slap on the wrist and learn his lesson.

  67. #67
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    file the police report, so that when you dispute this with your CC, a police report will show them that you yourself is not a fraudster. Police report will help any dispute you may have.

  68. #68
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    police reports are free.
    Theres no way that fork is BRAND NEW as the description states. Take a screenshot of the ad too (if that wasnt already mentioned)

  69. #69
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    the guy is from San Diego....you should also out this dude in dirttreaders.com (san diego site)

  70. #70
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    Start ASAP with legal/Paypal. Don't delay because they "might not have internet access".

    As for the question of whether he knowingly did it, I'm sure he did, he just thought it wouldn't be a huge deal/nothing would come of it/mommy-daddy would solve it all.

  71. #71
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    So much angst; all one had to do was stay away from all these brickless and mortarless, too good to be true sales on e-bay, paypal, etc., ad nauseum.

  72. #72
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    Since they don't have internet access , they wont mind you signing them up for all the gay pron sites will they ?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeljaws
    So much angst; all one had to do was stay away from all these brickless and mortarless, too good to be true sales on e-bay, paypal, etc., ad nauseum.
    because no one was ever ripped off for anything before the internet!

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    Since they don't have internet access , they wont mind you signing them up for all the gay pron sites will they ?

    I wish that I had his personal e-mail for that.
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  75. #75
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    I remember the days before the internet when we had to write out the "I wet the bed and need a pamphlet to help me stop" postcards and mail them in (with names of various enemies)...
    Now go home and get your ******* shinebox.

  76. #76
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    I would proceed. They both know how to use the telephone. He may be a naive teen, but he needs to learn he cannot expect to get away with episodes like this.

  77. #77
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    If you took him to small claims court, would it have to be in CA or could it be in VT? If the latter, I'd threaten his mother with that option.

  78. #78
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    "From digging around this kids facebook page he is a good kid that comes from a good family."

    We had a "good kid" like that in our California neighborhood growing up. Rich family, lots of nice things etc... Him and his friends would steal and sell bikes and skateboards for fun and beer/pot money.

    Your good kid sounds like the new and improved version for 2010 with internet access.

  79. #79
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    By the way, law enforcement will probably not do squat. From your standpoint this is a clear case of fraud, a criminal action. From a legal standpoint, this may either be a criminal case,civil case, or both in California. Covered by sections 484 to 502 of the California Penal Code.

    Yes, it may be fraud, but the concept of fraud and how it is handled by the law and courts in California is rather murky. In my experience (many years in California law enforcement) the cops in San Diego will probably only take an "Information only" report and advise you to file in small claims. There are a lot of things in this case that will keep them from filing a criminal case, especially proveability. How can you prove the kid's intent? In the eyes of the cops, it will boil down to his story agains yours, with no evidence other than hearsay. With only that they wont do a thing. Sorry, but that is how it goes.

    Besides, they don't have time to take on cases like this, as it doesn't generate any funds for their cash-strapped municipality. They are all writing parking tickets to pay their own salaries nowadays.

  80. #80
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    Okay, phew the kid got an extra day to to great riding weather here in VT. Just finished filing in the www.ic3.gov website. They make it sound very serious though it sounds like nothing will really get done. Local police here in VT and in El Cajon won't touch it. EL Cajon referred me to the IC3 site as well. I just checked out the econsumer.gov website and it seems it's more for the internet sales scams but I will file there as well. Just in case down the road they need to do something which requires a license and this BS will pop up. So that is everything I can do. Unfortunately I honestly believe that they are on a vacation. A teenager that hasn't checked into his FB account in in four days is just odd. Oh well. Hopefully the sh1t storm will eventually rain down on him via his parents once they find out. I have done everything that I can legally & financially.
    Also thanks for the tip on that local san diego bulletin board but he isn't on there under that screen name.
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  81. #81
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    An example of how internet scammer's can be dealt with ;

    http://googleads.sgdoubleclick.net/p...ch%3Dwenzelled


    Also , google Charlie Wenzell .

  82. #82
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    Well I finally heard back from the kid. It turns out he is on vacatiuon with a place with no internet or cell. He asked if I would consider buying the fork and taking a refgund on the difference. I said no. But in his reply he asked me to help him fix his PB profile. Truth be told in the e-mail he seemed more concerned about his profile than he did about fixing the financial problem. FUnny thing was I found a new used fork. Essentially the same ad. 2010 low hours no scratches. I received it last night & I could smell the fresh fork oil emmanating from the box. I felt like taking pictures of it and sending it to him. I guess I will find out what happens in another week.
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  83. #83
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    Well a slight update. He won't respond to me at all. He tried to open a new Pink Bike profile but the mods banned it. He will not open any of my messages or the moderator messages. I have still tried contacting the parents but I do not know if he is intercepting the messages or not. I am going to try UPSing his parents letters explaining the whole thing. If no response I may get very immature and start an online smear campaign against their business. Anyone care to help? I think many online reviews about how they rip people off and are a dishonest business may influence them a tiny bit. that may at least give me some satisfaction. Even if it is juvenile. But I am pissed and powerless. In the meantime it will be a 2-3 month wait to find out if the CC company will refund my money. Also any San Diego members reading this thread. I may need your help in filing a claim in small claims court. I would fly out to CA for that but would need someone to file for me. I would financially reimburse for your time. That's it for now and I will keep updating.
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  84. #84
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    Let's start with the smear campaign right now. What is the business they own?
    Send a certified letter so you know they recieve it with some sort of summons, no threats that'll just make it harder to get your money back. Seriously though if you can find out the business name and if mom has a email and $ accounts you can potentially contact the IRS or other governmental entities that can GET your money back and make sure this scammer family operates no more.

    Also the Better Business Bureau of San Diego is also a powerful tool to make sure these scammers customers don't get ripped off too.
    Just ride down there and jump off something for crying out loud...

  85. #85
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    I wouldn't smear the parents. It's not DIRECTLY the fault of the parents that their child ripped you off.

    But you def do need some kind of restitution. And I think you may have gotten it in the eyes of this kid, he's been banned from Pink Bike and his FB page is trashed and he seems to be upset about it.

    Honestly I think that your CC company is going to treat you right once all the paperwork goes through and all. In that case all will be well.

    This kid may be a "Good Kid" but I wouldnt want to buy anything from him and I'm sure I can speak for just about everyone on MTBR about that. You owe it to yourself and others to do what you can to prevent him from doing this kind of thing again.

    Good luck man, hope you get all your money back.
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  86. #86
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    I can pay him a visit(serious). Just PM me.

  87. #87
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    There are some good kids and kids who act all nice when required. I got rear ended by a Dion Forster back in Burnsville MN. This "nice" kid just got his car out of impound with fraudulent insurance paper work. The cop on scene thought all was legit so I was not to worried about it. Long story short his insurance never came thru even small claims court failed to provide resolution. The judge ordered him to pay $4000 in damages early 2005 yet to be paid. He disappeared shortly there after. Mom indicated she was no longer responsible for her son and did not jive a sh** where he was. I visited their residence personally on several occasions in attempts to collect without resolution. Only recourse I had was in damaging the kids credit by filing some paper work with the state. I can extend the credit ding here shortly but that is the only course of action I had.

    For you at least it is on a CC. I would leave negative feedback on any open pr pending account he used selling the fork. If it was tied with his parents business leave negative feedback there as well. With evidence of document negative feedback online present this to both the kid and his folks seeing if that gets their attention.

  88. #88
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    ripped off

    How would like to ripped off for $400+ and get absolutely nothing!
    2 words.
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  89. #89
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    Hey guys I just found another MTB profile that he has. Here is the link http://www.hookit.com/members/chase2...5-5b8d051f0923

    Please trash him there suitably. I will also be contacting his sponsors.

    Also feel free to trash him here as well

    http://santacruzboy2.pinkbike.com/
    Last edited by spunkmtb; 09-04-2010 at 03:20 PM.
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFAthens
    I wouldn't smear the parents. It's not DIRECTLY the fault of the parents that their child ripped you off.

    But you def do need some kind of restitution. And I think you may have gotten it in the eyes of this kid, he's been banned from Pink Bike and his FB page is trashed and he seems to be upset about it.

    Honestly I think that your CC company is going to treat you right once all the paperwork goes through and all. In that case all will be well.

    This kid may be a "Good Kid" but I wouldnt want to buy anything from him and I'm sure I can speak for just about everyone on MTBR about that. You owe it to yourself and others to do what you can to prevent him from doing this kind of thing again.

    Good luck man, hope you get all your money back.

    The parents are resposnsible. He used their paypal account for the funds transfer. The whole transaction is in their name. I have left at least 15 very calm, educated, concise, professional messages fro them. I have sent e-mails to them through linkendin, facebook, and there paypal e-mail. They are aware. If they are blowing it off as well it is wrong. The smear campaign will be my very last resort.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryman
    Let's start with the smear campaign right now. What is the business they own?
    Send a certified letter so you know they recieve it with some sort of summons, no threats that'll just make it harder to get your money back. Seriously though if you can find out the business name and if mom has a email and $ accounts you can potentially contact the IRS or other governmental entities that can GET your money back and make sure this scammer family operates no more.

    Also the Better Business Bureau of San Diego is also a powerful tool to make sure these scammers customers don't get ripped off too.

    Good idea. Thank you.
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  92. #92
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    Post his parents phone #. Then we can all call them.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by AptosRider
    Post his parents phone #. Then we can all call them.
    They never pick up and it is there business phone. It will be better to trash his profiles on both sites. He seemed way more concerned about having his profiles fixed than refunding my money. Also I just found out that Intense cycles sponsors him. Feel free to contact them and voice your complaints. His name is Chase Wolters.
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    They never pick up and it is there business phone. It will be better to trash his profiles on both sites. He seemed way more concerned about having his profiles fixed than refunding my money. Also I just found out that Intense cycles sponsors him. Feel free to contact them and voice your complaints. His name is Chase Wolters.
    Just left him a friendly message on PB

  95. #95
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    OP, I'd attached the ad, and his response to all his sponsors, and let Intense know as well, since he ride with Intense team.

    On the side note, how can you miss that though, the pic clearly shown a 1st gen fox36 on his ad with it's unique brown and decal. We may have missed other ones since then, but the first one was quite popular. Any ways thanks for the update, hope you get some thing resolves soon.

  96. #96
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    Parents Scott and Cathy Wolters? Of Wolters, Hagar & Pratt Financial Planning, Inc.?

  97. #97
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    No doubt! Where in CA does this jackal reside?

  98. #98
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    El Cerrito, San Diego, somewhere.

    I'd also leave note on sponsor's facebook page, that will get some attention.

  99. #99
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    Hey Guy's if you look at his www.hookit.com page http://www.hookit.com/members/chase211/sponsors/
    He mentions that he is sponsored by Intense. If we can do a grassroots e-mail campaign to Intense cycles informing them Chase Wolters who rides for them is a criminal and include a link to this thread. I bet they would pressure him as well as letting them know about the moral character of one of their riders. I do not think that they will be too happy. Please help me with this and get anyone else you know on here to write Intense cycles about this. Thank you for your help and support.
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  100. #100
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    Please email Intense Bicyles about this incident & include a link to this thread.


    http://www.intensecycles.com/

    [email protected]
    Last edited by spunkmtb; 09-04-2010 at 08:07 PM.
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  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    Please email Intense Bicyles about this incident & include a link to this thread.

    www.intensecycles.com

    email: [email protected]
    Did it, I own many Intense bikes, and have been to their facility, this kids just smeared the good name. Hope it help, please keep us updated.

    Edit: The link is not good, it came back failed.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885
    Did it, I own many Intense bikes, and have been to their facility, this kids just smeared the good name. Hope it help, please keep us updated.

    Edit: The link is not good, it came back failed.

    Fixed it. Thanks Mimi!!!!!
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  103. #103
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    Email sent to intense. It makes me sick that this kid gets sponsored and then goes and does something like this.

  104. #104
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    Dirty dog

    :madWell he is a real ******bag! I cant stand slimy guys that rip u off from behind a keyboard. I say you stake out his house until you see a beloved pet, and take it for ransom. I know, thats a little extreme, but I get alittle extreme when f#%^%d with. Thats a dirty thing he did and he need to pay.

  105. #105
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    Pretty easy, member in San Diego should let him know at the race track when he's racing. If he's in Socal area I'd let him and everyone else know, that's a guarantee!

    I'm not sure if I see his pic on both site. It would make him easy to spot. I don't think violence is the answer, but embarrassing him in front of his peer is fair game. I'll be sure to also mention to the guys at Intense next time I'm there as well.

  106. #106
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    Well I just Google Earthed there parents house. This really blows my mind away. It's a big house in an upscale neighborhood. They have money. I can't understand how the parents have ignored this issue. Unless the kid is very devious and has intercepted all phone & email messages. I just don't get it. Unless the whole family is a bunch of crooks. But that just doesn't make sense.
    I was going to email the BBB in San Diego today but realized that I should really send the registered letters to the parents first. There is no way he can intercept those. If I get no response I will officially go after the business as much as possible. It was their business (The business's paypal account was used, shipped from business address, business phone number used, and business owners name was on the transaction) that is responsible for this transaction. Also I will be contacting all of the sponsors he has listed on his hookit page. I am not sure if he is actually sponsored by these companies but it can't hurt to try.
    Again to everyone thanks for all the support. Also some great comments have been left on his PB profile. It was good for some laughter this morning. I still get so mad about that post he made on his FB page about his new frame and iphone that he purchased right after my funds were transferred to him. I really wish I still lived in CA. But at some point I will be traveling home and am very seriously looking forward to a day trip to El Cajon. I have no idea what I wil ldo when I am there but seriously looking forward to it. I am 6'2, 220lbs, shaved head, ear-lobes are stretched. I can look intimidating.
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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    Well I just Google Earthed there parents house. This really blows my mind away. It's a big house in an upscale neighborhood. They have money. I can't understand how the parents have ignored this issue. Unless the kid is very devious and has intercepted all phone & email messages. I just don't get it. Unless the whole family is a bunch of crooks. But that just doesn't make sense.
    I was going to email the BBB in San Diego today but realized that I should really send the registered letters to the parents first. There is no way he can intercept those. If I get no response I will officially go after the business as much as possible. It was their business (The business's paypal account was used, shipped from business address, business phone number used, and business owners name was on the transaction) that is responsible for this transaction. Also I will be contacting all of the sponsors he has listed on his hookit page. I am not sure if he is actually sponsored by these companies but it can't hurt to try.
    Again to everyone thanks for all the support. Also some great comments have been left on his PB profile. It was good for some laughter this morning. I still get so mad about that post he made on his FB page about his new frame and iphone that he purchased right after my funds were transferred to him. I really wish I still lived in CA. But at some point I will be traveling home and am very seriously looking forward to a day trip to El Cajon. I have no idea what I wil ldo when I am there but seriously looking forward to it. I am 6'2, 220lbs, shaved head, ear-lobes are stretched. I can look intimidating.

    The "Cajon zone" is where you live if you can't afford to really live in San Diego.
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  108. #108
    mtnjam
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    Well I just Google Earthed there parents house. This really blows my mind away. It's a big house in an upscale neighborhood. They have money. I can't understand how the parents have ignored this issue. Unless the kid is very devious and has intercepted all phone & email messages. I just don't get it. Unless the whole family is a bunch of crooks. But that just doesn't make sense.
    I was going to email the BBB in San Diego today but realized that I should really send the registered letters to the parents first. There is no way he can intercept those. If I get no response I will officially go after the business as much as possible. It was their business (The business's paypal account was used, shipped from business address, business phone number used, and business owners name was on the transaction) that is responsible for this transaction.
    Again to everyone thanks for all the support. Also some great comments have been left on his PB profile. It was good for some laughter this morning. I still get so mad about that post he made on his FB page about his new frame and iphone that he purchased right after my funds were transferred to him.
    Not too surprised. It's usually kids like this with parents like this that think they can buy their way out of trouble. Based on some of his photos on PB it sounds like they are one of those families that are trying to keep up with the Jones'. They have a really nice boat (which he claims is his) sounds like they make plenty of $ so yeah they probably spoiled him rotten. If they are in fact financial planners then yeah they pretty much sound like crooks already (think corporate bailouts)
    Just ride down there and jump off something for crying out loud...

  109. #109
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    My offer still stands to go talk to him or his parents.

  110. #110
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    I love it. I just googled his name and the first and second listings that pop up are that he is a criminal. Karma is staring to work perhaps. Maybe one day he will google himself and see this.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=chase...ient=firefox-a
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  111. #111
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    Well I just heard back from Mr. Intense himself. The kid doesn't currently ride for the team. Bummer. I sent the letters off to the parents yesterday and I am still going to contact hayes brakes, 661, and azonic. I know that he has small sponsorships from those companies. That's it for now. Also I was able to finally track his e-mail down so at least I can communicate with him again. Even if he won't ride write back at least I know that he can read the messages. This still sucks. Thanks for all the help and support again.

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  112. #112
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    Man I'm I the only guy that thinks you are starting to sound like a scary internet stalker (I mean you are googling their house???)..........I know you got ripped off, I'm sorry about that, I feel bad, you got burned, it sucks but honestly man, just let it go.....

    Over the years I've bought lots of mountain bike parts (new and used) and 95% of the time I've been completely satisfied, but 5% of the purchases I've been burned (brakes that didn't work, wheels that broke on my first ride, stuff like that)

    That's the risk of trying to save a buck.......if you want 100% guarantee you need to go to a bike shop or a reputable on-line company.....

    I mean, it sounds like this whole thing is consuming you in a real negative way......that dude is a ******-bag and I believe in Karma.....now either slap those forks on your bike or un-load them on e-bay and then go for a ride........
    Last edited by osmarandsara; 09-08-2010 at 08:44 PM.

  113. #113
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    Im with osmarandsara for that one.

    What the kid did was something really bad but your actions are very close if not even worst than what he did to you.

    If you continue like this,you could get yourself in serious troubbles my friend.

    Those things should be done behind close doors and NOT on the biggest MTB forum on the internet !! IF the kid or his parents read this thread here,I prefer not knowing what they can do to you. And you probably dont want to know as well.

    You know,I feel sorry for what happened to you. I guess we all got ripped of one way or another in our life. Its frustrating but thats life.

    Please dont give up but be smart and dont expose yourself to some **** that you dont need at this moment.

    Good luck and ride on...
    Life is short-Live it full throttle !!

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by osmarandsara
    Man I'm I the only guy that thinks you are starting to sound like a scary internet stalker (I mean you are googling their house???)..........I know you got ripped off, I'm sorry about that, I feel bad, you got burned, it sucks but honestly man, just let it go.....

    Over the years I've bought lots of mountain bike parts (new and used) and 95% of the time I've been completely satisfied, but 5% of the purchases I've been burned (brakes that didn't work, wheels that broke on my first ride, stuff like that)

    That's the risk of trying to save a buck.......if you want 100% guarantee you need to go to a bike shop or a reputable on-line company.....

    I mean, it sounds like this whole thing is consuming you in a real negative way......that dude is a ******-bag and I believe in Karma.....now either slap those forks on your bike or un-load them on e-bay and then go for a ride........
    +1

    Getting ripped off sucks but dragging his parents into the fray and contacting his possible sponsors is kind of creepy. Man up and move on. You have brought yourself down to his level and are becoming obsessed. Campaigning people on the internet to smear their business is going way overboard and there is proof in this post that could be used against you in court if they chose to pursue a lawsuit.

    I in no way support what he did but I do think you are taking this to far. Just something to think about.
    Last edited by Fishingeek; 09-09-2010 at 10:22 AM.

  115. #115
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    I don't think that OP plan for things to turn out this way, and I can relate the frustration as I've been ripped off before. He probably got tunnel vision about this whole situation.

    I agree that a lot of what he said or plan to do should be done behind closed door not on the Forum like this where it may back fire on him.

    OP take the good advice and lay low a while, you'll thanks us later. Look on the bright(er) side, at least you get the fox 36, some people just got scammed and never get any thing.

    It's going on 4th page and you can already see there are a lot of people who's on your side and feel your pain, it time to give this topic the rest on the forum, you go do what you have to do just don't put it on the forum.

  116. #116
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    Since he used his mothers business phone number, file complaints against his mothers business with Better Business Bureau, State Attorney General, etc. That might get their attention. Fraud is fraud - if his mothers business had anything to do with it, that business committed fraud also !

  117. #117
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    I live in San Diego. Send me a private message and I will try to help you out. I do hate people like this little punk.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloj
    Since he used his mothers business phone number, file complaints against his mothers business with Better Business Bureau, State Attorney General, etc. That might get their attention. Fraud is fraud - if his mothers business had anything to do with it, that business committed fraud also !

    this is a good idea.

  119. #119
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    To the OP- Keep up the pressure. You haven't done/said anything wrong. Yes it's a little creepy that you looked up his house w/ google's spy sattelites, but you haven't said anyting about him that isn't true.
    I think some of you have lost site of the fact that the kid showed onething on his ad, and shipped out another (I think, this thread is getting so long it's hard to remember). Not just an honest mistake, a slight misrepresentation, or a quality control issue, that dealing w/ a LBS would have solved.

  120. #120
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    are you kidding me?

    Ajmelin, nice avatar you Hoser!

    To the OP, its a bummer that you bought something that was misrepresented in the ad. Sorry man, it has happened to me on Pinkbike as well and it sucks.

    I have to say that this entire thread and its content is beyond batshit crazy though. Yes the kid is a Gigantic ******, but the pics in that pinkbike ad CLEARLY show the first version of the fox talas 36. Did anyone else notice this? They did not represent the condition of fork properly and he obviously lied about the fork being new.
    The fact that he said it was an 09' talas 36 in the description and the pics were of a 06' talas 36 should have been a HUGE red flag that the seller did not know what the hell he was selling. You simply have to be savvy when you buy stuff on pinkbike.

    I'm sorry man, but in my mind you are out of line with this whole tirade. It's ok to be pissed and post about it, but everything else in this thread is out of control. Criminal charges? Defaming his parents business? Really?? You have the fork and the seller is still a punk.
    Deal with it.

  121. #121
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    If you're looking for more ideas...this thread set a pretty high bar:

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399203

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by miwoodar
    If you're looking for more ideas...this thread set a pretty high bar:

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399203
    I read the first page and its pretty funny stuff. The weird thing Is that one of the guys on that thread is a buddy of mine from my local MTBR forum.

  123. #123
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    Well time to clear some stuff up. I will be the first to admit that I can suffer from OCD sometimes. I have been working very hard to stay objectionable and logical. At no point and time have I mentioned the parents name, business, address, or phone number. I never would., That could get me into a lot of trouble and I am aware of that. As far as this problem goes. Yes, I am aware that it is 90% my fault. When I purchse a high dollar item I always ask for more detailed pics and Idescription. I entirely brain farted this time. Never make an expensive purchase after working 3 14 hour shifts. Also this is the first 36 I have ever purchased and really knew nothing about the fork except that I knew that I needed a 160 fork for my new frame, it was a "2009", with low hours. It was the last missing piece for my new frame. So 1) I really didn't know what a 2009 fork should look like in a pic 2) I spaced on the additional photo's 3) The kid should have manned up and refunded my money like a responsible adult. When I sell things I am perfectly honest and if someone isn't happy I make it right. But again, I work extremely difficult hours for my money & toys. I have a feeling Chase doesn't know what 3-4 14 hour shifts a week feels like. Nor, earning that kind of money. As far as google earthing the residence goes. It was necessary and I didn't do it to be a stalker. I needed to send the certified letters to his parents. I was not sure if the address I had was for the business or the residence. I wanted to make sure that they were not going to turn up at a blank store front (Which if you knew the typwe of business this statement would make sense) After doing a bunch of research it sounded as if the business was located one place and the mailing was another. Google earth confirmed what I was looking for and I knew that I had the correct address to send the certified letters to. As far as contacting his sponsors goes. I think it is fair game. They should be aware of the moral character of one of their riders and how he may represent their company. Plus, I have all the documentation to back up my claim. I am fabricating nothing. The people who have asked for his address, number, e-mail I have not provided it nor would I. As far as the google search with his name goes. That was not done intentionally. That was me posting in the scammer section of PB. The fact that it shows up instantly as the first and second choice in google.................. That was not my intention. But, yes it does make me glad. Some minor justice in all pf this. It is necessary to post the scammers real name in the scammer forum section of pink bike. That was people will know who not to do business with. Posting his name in that forum is perfectly within the context of that particular scammer thread. Will I drop this, accept that I was burned, and move on. Never. I have a fork that I cannot use. It is so beat up I would not put it on my bike without first sending it to fox for an inspection. Let's see about $50 round-trip for shipping, plus about the $100-150 that fox will charge for a service. It defeats the purpose. This fork has seen serious use. But the whole purpose of the 2009 fork is I needed a fork with 160mm travel. The fork I received is 150mm. Hopefully, the CC company will back me up. In the meantime. New frame, wrong fork for it, not even close to being as fun as it could be I do not want to purchase another fork because if the CC company does not refund my cost I will be out those funds. I cannot afford that right now.
    Yeti SB95C
    Carver Ti 420
    Ibis HD3

  124. #124
    Lucky Wrecker
    Reputation: miwoodar's Avatar
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    The situation in that thread was similar to this one. A kid tried to sell a slightly used item that turned out to be junk. He then changed the terms of the deal. After that he tried to hide behind his parents business. Note to self, don't be dumb on the internets and definitely don't scam anyone on Pirate4x4.

    I actually read the whole thing - all 73 pages. I had better things to do but had to see how it played out. Anyone who thinks they are anonymous and/or safe trying to scam people on the internet should do the same. Smart people can make an example out of you very easily by simply piecing together publicly available information.

  125. #125
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by spunkmtb
    Well time to clear some stuff up. I will be the first to admit that I can suffer from OCD sometimes. I have been working very hard to stay objectionable and logical. At no point and time have I mentioned the parents name, business, address, or phone number. I never would., That could get me into a lot of trouble and I am aware of that. As far as this problem goes. Yes, I am aware that it is 90% my fault. When I purchse a high dollar item I always ask for more detailed pics and Idescription. I entirely brain farted this time. Never make an expensive purchase after working 3 14 hour shifts. Also this is the first 36 I have ever purchased and really knew nothing about the fork except that I knew that I needed a 160 fork for my new frame, it was a "2009", with low hours. It was the last missing piece for my new frame. So 1) I really didn't know what a 2009 fork should look like in a pic 2) I spaced on the additional photo's 3) The kid should have manned up and refunded my money like a responsible adult. When I sell things I am perfectly honest and if someone isn't happy I make it right. But again, I work extremely difficult hours for my money & toys. I have a feeling Chase doesn't know what 3-4 14 hour shifts a week feels like. Nor, earning that kind of money. As far as google earthing the residence goes. It was necessary and I didn't do it to be a stalker. I needed to send the certified letters to his parents. I was not sure if the address I had was for the business or the residence. I wanted to make sure that they were not going to turn up at a blank store front (Which if you knew the typwe of business this statement would make sense) After doing a bunch of research it sounded as if the business was located one place and the mailing was another. Google earth confirmed what I was looking for and I knew that I had the correct address to send the certified letters to. As far as contacting his sponsors goes. I think it is fair game. They should be aware of the moral character of one of their riders and how he may represent their company. Plus, I have all the documentation to back up my claim. I am fabricating nothing. The people who have asked for his address, number, e-mail I have not provided it nor would I. As far as the google search with his name goes. That was not done intentionally. That was me posting in the scammer section of PB. The fact that it shows up instantly as the first and second choice in google.................. That was not my intention. But, yes it does make me glad. Some minor justice in all pf this. It is necessary to post the scammers real name in the scammer forum section of pink bike. That was people will know who not to do business with. Posting his name in that forum is perfectly within the context of that particular scammer thread. Will I drop this, accept that I was burned, and move on. Never. I have a fork that I cannot use. It is so beat up I would not put it on my bike without first sending it to fox for an inspection. Let's see about $50 round-trip for shipping, plus about the $100-150 that fox will charge for a service. It defeats the purpose. This fork has seen serious use. But the whole purpose of the 2009 fork is I needed a fork with 160mm travel. The fork I received is 150mm. Hopefully, the CC company will back me up. In the meantime. New frame, wrong fork for it, not even close to being as fun as it could be I do not want to purchase another fork because if the CC company does not refund my cost I will be out those funds. I cannot afford that right now.
    What people have to realize, is Pinkbike is about 85% kids, who sell and rip people off, and lie about the shape of the item. YES I have bought from Pinkibike and Craigslist, but somewhere I can drive to see the item hands on.
    If I buy something new, it's either LBS or a very reputable Ebay seller with thousands of feedback with at least a 99% feedback rating.
    there are only a few Ebay sellers I deal with regularly.
    As far as your fork goes,I will PM you about it.

  126. #126
    mtbr member
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    <----- Lives in El Cajon 5'9 235lb Mexican with a shaved head and have been known to convince a person or two to do things my way. Wish I would have seen this sooner, Im leaving for Vegas to get married and then off to hawaii for a week. I have a few days off when i get back sept. 24th and would be happy to stop by wherever. Shoot me a pm, Im not on MTBR too often but will check here when I get back

  127. #127
    Single Speed Junkie
    Reputation: crux's Avatar
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    I sold a header to a kid once documenting everything so he knew exactly what he was getting. Even had copies of all email exchanges documenting our conversations.

    When it arrived on his door step he demanded half of his money back as it was not as he envisioned. I presented him with copies of all emails and photos sent asking what was the matter. I was willing to work with him, however he was unable to provide a viable response only that he needed half of his money back. Next he had his father lawyer contact me asking why I ripped his son off. I forwarded the email exchanges between his son and I along with photos asking for viable justification at what was misrepresented. After that the father apologized and went on with our lives.

    About a week later his son called me again letting me know that we would soon be in court to resolve this. I indicated this would be fine, however I expect to be compensated for my time in dealing with him over the course of the transaction and I will be following up with his father shortly. The phone call to his lawyer father was pretty funny as after we discussed what had just happened I heard him call his son over in a rather harsh tone with footsteps running in the other direction. He once again apologized. I can only imaging the discussion that took place next in the house but it was most likely not pretty.

    Regardless I would keep on your CC company presenting them with the facts. Scamers and little pieces of cr** like this do not deserve a big pay off for selling junk. If you were to post his name and all details of the transaction such as phone # and address those are just part of the facts. When I'm considering buying something online I google every detail about the individual. If anything shows up negative I will ask them about it. only takes a few min, but has saved me quite a few times. MTBR shows up more than not in google searches so when this kids attempt to sell something again his info and negative feedback will appear once again.

    Don't let the kid get away with it as he will do it again and again.

  128. #128
    Dirt Huffer
    Reputation: AC/BC's Avatar
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    EXPOSE HIM. Post his username and thrash him in the forum! Scum like him need to be exposed for who they are. Warn others. Does he have anything else for sale? Chances are he will rip off someone again...

    Search for his username on here and any local MTB forums he may be on. You may be able to track him down locally if he uses the same username. Also Google search his username.

    Maybe you can talk to one of the moderators and get his IP address and find his address using that.

    The longer you wait the more likely he will spend the money and you will never get a refund.

  129. #129
    Single Speed Junkie
    Reputation: crux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC
    EXPOSE HIM. Post his username and thrash him in the forum! Scum like him need to be exposed for who they are. Warn others. Does he have anything else for sale? Chances are he will rip off someone again...

    Search for his username on here and any local MTB forums he may be on. You may be able to track him down locally if he uses the same username. Also Google search his username.

    Maybe you can talk to one of the moderators and get his IP address and find his address using that.

    The longer you wait the more likely he will spend the money and you will never get a refund.
    Exposing him sounds so harsh, However providing full disclosure on all specifics of the transaction is perfectly fine and legal. His feeling might get hurt in the process which is unfortunate. That should have been considered prior to fraudulently representing product.

    In the process you got screwed. Now you need to take steps at protecting your interest. This is just one additional step that could help you out over the long run in finding resolution.

  130. #130
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    Pure Scum. We don't run into this much in the biking world mostly honest folks. Sorry to hear. I would use your energy while you still have it, to expose this churl for the scum he is.

  131. #131
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    hey i know this post is old but im curious to know if you ever resolved the issue with this jackass,

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Your gift of sarcasm is not lost on me.


    Those reports get filed right next to the "he stole my dope" reports.
    What!!!

    The cops won't work overtime to recover stolen dope???

    That's....classic.

    (I love the stories where misplaced drugs are found by the authorities. Who place an ad in the paper offering to return the lost drugs to the rightful owner. Who THEN TURN UP AT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO CLAIM THE CONTRABAND. Who says that evolution is not for real?)

    Walt

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mex_elvis
    hey i know this post is old but im curious to know if you ever resolved the issue with this jackass,
    me too... do tell!

  134. #134
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    I had a dispute on a ebay item I bought and Paypal took care of it promply.

  135. #135
    Stupid is, as stupid does
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    Well a quick update. I had to take a vacation from the thread and the fork. I was getting mad and had to forget about it and purge my mind with miles of single track and rock climbing. I Focused on building the bike that the fork was supposed to be on. I found a 2010 F36 with about 20 miles on it for the same price that I paid for the other fork. This time I was well aware of what I was buying and asked for many pics. It was a smooth transaction. I built up a 2010 Heckler.
    The little [email protected] has tried to open a couple of new accounts on Pink-bike under a few different e-mail names. But they have banned him. [email protected], [email protected],[email protected] m. Teenagers, so obsessed with personal pages. Pinkbike, Facebook, Hookit. Why not be obsessed with doing the right thing? I told Chase that his PB page could be fixed if he just remedied the problem.
    I sent the info off to the CC company and never heard back. I called them about two weeks ago and I had worded the complaint wrong and it went to the wrong dept. I faxed a new letter and the process is under way. I received this message from paypal a few days ago.

    We were notified by your credit card company that you filed a chargeback against this transaction. We understand that the reason for the chargeback is that the goods or services you purchased were either defective or not as described. If you have not yet returned the goods to the seller, we encourage you to contact the seller directly to arrange this return. If you have reconsidered and would like to cancel this chargeback, click the Cancel Chargeback Now button below.

    I have notified them that the seller refuses to contact me. Also I sent two certified letters to both of his parents and neither of them went to the post office to pick up the letters and they were sent back to me. That's about all I got. Riding season is just about done here in Vermont. I went on a very cold 14 mile ride today in Cottonbrook state park. I still can't feel my toes. I really hope that I get my money back on this. Again everyone thank you for your support.

    Lucas
    Yeti SB95C
    Carver Ti 420
    Ibis HD3

  136. #136
    RIS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Dizzy
    What!!!

    The cops won't work overtime to recover stolen dope???

    That's....classic.

    (I love the stories where misplaced drugs are found by the authorities. Who place an ad in the paper offering to return the lost drugs to the rightful owner. Who THEN TURN UP AT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TO CLAIM THE CONTRABAND. Who says that evolution is not for real?)

    Walt
    The one that never gets old is showing up in street clothes, carrying a box for a 60" flat-screen television, at the residence of someone that we have a warrant for. You know what they say- We don't catch the smart ones.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    The one that never gets old is showing up in street clothes, carrying a box for a 60" flat-screen television, at the residence of someone that we have a warrant for. You know what they say- We don't catch the smart ones.
    That's priceless.

  138. #138
    Blue Pig
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    It's gonna be awhile before you get anything from the CC. Have you thought about suing the person? He's 20 and loves to scam people? Obviously a criminal is a criminal. A lawyer will be able to notify him or the family. Of course, that's if you really want to get this little runt.

    I just noticed that your CC company is Chase? Brings back memories on how they tried to scam me into something I never bought. Life is garbage but I hope you come out victorious!
    Ragley Blue Pig

  139. #139
    Stupid is, as stupid does
    Reputation: spunkmtb's Avatar
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    Both of the certified letters were returned to me unopened. I received a letter about 3 weeks after I faxed in the info to the CC company. It stated that they would credit me my $650. They only requested a secondary letter from a bike shop confirming everything. I still have the fork in my garage and I have not heard back from the family stating that they want the fork back. I am hoping that the money was actually requested back from the bank or pay-pal and that they had to pay. I can only hope. But since I have not heard from them it makes me wonder if he was charged back. I will probably keep the fork for a year before parting with it. Any suggestions on how long I should wait? Other than that the dispute is resolved. It's funny I just returned from a two week vacation home to Santa Monica, CA. Oh how I wanted to drive down there and have a face to face conversation with the little runt. But the mature adult prevailed. But than again, if I hadn't had my money refunded perhaps I wouldn't have acted so maturely. Happy New Year everyone.
    Yeti SB95C
    Carver Ti 420
    Ibis HD3

  140. #140
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    Wow, what a PITA, but at least you got your $back. Credit card company probably just ate it as a loss.

  141. #141
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    Drive over the fork a few times or remove the innards and then send it back.

    MRr

  142. #142
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    Oops.. never mind

  143. #143
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    Wow, I can't believe you were so close and didn't go to his house. I don't think I could have stopped myself. I probably would have given a couple thugs $20 each to come with me. Anyway, I'm glad you got your money back.

    Why did the letters get returned? Refused delivery? Not a deliverable address?

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