Will an HSCV cartridge improve performance in an MX Pro?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,457

    Will an HSCV cartridge improve performance in an MX Pro?

    As the title goes. Was wondering if it's worth it to buy an HSCV cart to install in my mx pro eta. What is needed to do the conversion, as I have a coil and ETA on one side and air on the other. I'm assuming I'd have to install it on the air side, but would I still be able to run the air assist? I like the ability to fine tune the spring.

  2. #2
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,332
    Hard to say if you can do the air-assist thing, but it usually also depends on the shape of your MX-series fork. If it's in great condition, then it's usually worth dumping the ~100-130 that the cart costs, it is a BIG improvement at speed, the faster you go, the more different the forks are. Low speed performance is about the same, but as you go faster it stays the same. This is truely a situation where you have to try it; Most riders on the MX, or Jr T, or Dropoff, or whatever fork feel that it's fine, untill they get a good ride on a HSCV cartridge type fork, and then they realize the performance benefit. So what I am saying is that it is hard to quantify, depends on your experience and what you currently ride, and what you want in the future. If the fork is kind of beat up, it's usually worth it to put that money towards a new fork.

    Most of the cartridge upgrades will include the cartridge, the top cap, and sometimes the footnut. Basically all of the internals.

    I don't think the old marathon S 120mm was an air-assist, so it may be dual coils, and that would be the "kit" that you'd be getting, it would essentialy turn your mx into a marathon S.

    Best is to call marzocchi, they are good about answering these kinds of questions. They'll usually work with you.

    As far as the upgrade; I'd recommend it if your fork is in good condition, and not if it's beat up. As I said above, it's hard to quantify to some people, but it is a definite performance upgrade. If I had started out on a Jr T I probably would have accepted the performance as normal, but I used a Jr T after I had used a Z2 (that has a HSCV cartridge damper) for a while, and the Jr T felt like it was trying to break my wrists off comparitively, and while the Z2 only had 80mm, it felt a lot better than the 170mm of the Jr T.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  3. #3

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,457
    Thanks, it is the high speed hits and the subsequent spiking that's been annoying.

    Now I have a friend with a 100mm Z.1. Is the cartridge usable in an MX series?

  4. #4
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Thanks, it is the high speed hits and the subsequent spiking that's been annoying.

    Now I have a friend with a 100mm Z.1. Is the cartridge usable in an MX series?
    Marzocchi's are very modular. But the 100mm Z1 was from a while back, long before your MX.

    The Z1 is going to use a dual coil setup, meaning that you'd have to run dual coils. Back in the day of the 100mm Z1, the "air shocks" that marzocchi made were quite funky, and very different from todays. The Z1-X-fly and superfly were not marzocchi's best showings, so if you want some sort of "air assist" at this point I don't know if it would be available for the MX using the old Z1 cart. The "air assist" caps are easily available and retrofittable on coil MX forks, to use air, but the damper rod has to go THROUGH the top cap in the Z1s case, so I don't know if the air-spring thing is a possibility here, I'd wager on no though.

    This is assumming the threads on the 30mm Z1 match up with your MX, and this is ALSO assuming that the cartridge is long enough, the fork lowers are not always a constant with marzocchi, older Z2 type forks had about 4" of "hollow space", if you turned them upside down. The Z1 had a lot less, only about an inch and a half, and some of the different variations over the years were a little different, but this is also an important factor on the cartridge length.

    There's a strong possibility it could work, and much of the marzocchi stuff is interchangable, but you are looking at a pretty wide year-gap between products here. Those Z1s (and they were superbly damped) that were 100mm have not been around since about 1999 or 2000.

    To further confuse you, there was the original 100mm Z1, then not to long after that was the Z1 Dual, a Z1 intended for slalom racing, with 20mm dropouts and dual 100mm cartridge dampers. Then came the 130mm Z1s, but these were convertable to 100mm via an internal spacer. I believe it was 2001 when the "non-internally adjustable" Z1 came out, and it was fixed at 130mm.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  5. #5

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,457
    I think I might be able to remove the ETA cart and replace it with the HSCV cart and spring. On the air side, I could remove the damping piston, that way keeping the air and the bolting holding the fork together on that side. I have previously removed the piston by mistake once before, so it's no biggie to do it on purpose.

  6. #6
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I think I might be able to remove the ETA cart and replace it with the HSCV cart and spring. On the air side, I could remove the damping piston, that way keeping the air and the bolting holding the fork together on that side. I have previously removed the piston by mistake once before, so it's no biggie to do it on purpose.
    That's what I'd do to make it work, you can remove or drill out the piston to make it inneffective.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  7. #7

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,457
    The piston can simply be turned out through the top without damage, although the stops in the damping cylinder will wear a bit during this process.

  8. #8
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I think I might be able to remove the ETA cart and replace it with the HSCV cart and spring. On the air side, I could remove the damping piston, that way keeping the air and the bolting holding the fork together on that side. I have previously removed the piston by mistake once before, so it's no biggie to do it on purpose.
    Don't quote me on this and you'd rather page BikerX40...

    I think you can get off all of the internals on the right leg (viewed from riding position) and drop an HSCV cart in there.

    The top cap of the Marathons has (again, I'm not sure, please doublecheck) a rubber o-ring for the air assist. The Marathon S was a coil sprung fork but lighter dudes were removing the spring on the damper side and pumping some air in there. The other end is sealed by the oil and the actual seals of the fork lowers.

    I'd keep the ETA if possible and put a damper on the other side.

    windwave.co.uk used to have some nice schematics of Zokes internals. I haven't found them lately though but you can check in there.
    Check my Site

  9. #9

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,457
    That's what I'd like to do, even though it would make the fork heavier and I don't use the ETA anyhow. Does the eta side serve any damping function at all?

    Now any leads on a 100mm hscv cart?

  10. #10
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    That's what I'd like to do, even though it would make the fork heavier and I don't use the ETA anyhow. Does the eta side serve any damping function at all?

    Now any leads on a 100mm hscv cart?
    I don't know for sure about damping on ETA. Sometime I asked and I got mixed answers. Some said it's HSCV, others said is orifices... who knows? Nobody has teared one open.

    It's gotta have some damping effect as the ETA is actually an hydraulic system that limits rebound (similar but not equal) to ECC and oil level affects the performance (engagement, disengagement) of the thing.

    Wrost case scenario is you would need a heavier oil to compensate for the lost damping or make the orifices on the other side slightly bigger (a small step goes a long way here) to provide a bit more damping but limit spiking.

    As for where to get them.... just call Zoke and say you need a replacement cart for your fork (Marathon S if you're asked... I ignore if they request for the S/N to doublecheck).
    Check my Site

  11. #11

    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    16,457
    Trying to economize, thus the request for one from a donor fork. I could see this as being an expensive part.

  12. #12
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Trying to economize, thus the request for one from a donor fork. I could see this as being an expensive part.

    Oh, well, sorry. My Bad. I'd try to do the same but these cartridges are higly priced on the "black market". I doubt you can get it for cheap.
    Check my Site

  13. #13
    mtbr platinum member
    Reputation: bikerx40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,426
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    I think I might be able to remove the ETA cart and replace it with the HSCV cart and spring. On the air side, I could remove the damping piston, that way keeping the air and the bolting holding the fork together on that side. I have previously removed the piston by mistake once before, so it's no biggie to do it on purpose.
    If you're not using the ETA, then I would throw the HSCV cartridge and spring into the old ETA side. The air-assist side could remain as is, or you could drill out the orifice holes to minimize their role- try removing it first before drilling to see if this is even necessary for your desired result.

    I'm convinced that the ETA cartridge serves as a ported orifice damper during compression, as you can see this when you cycle the ETA cartridge out of the fork in a container filled with oil.

    Buying a new HSCV cartridge from Zokie is quite expensive. I was quoted over $115 for one! You're almost better off finding a used HSCV fork on eBay, and then making a frankenfork or selling your Mx Pro and getting a Reba for $280.
    I stopped driving my bike into my garage - I'm now protected with Roof Rack Ranger app for my iPhone.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.