What's Next from Push?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    What's Next from Push?

    With them blowing out the ElevenSix does anyone have any hints of what to expect next from them?

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    I heard that the 11-7 is going to be awesome!

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    Total speculation here but ever since PUSH offered the HC97 Pike damper I've wondered how long it would be before PUSH offered their own complete fork.

    PUSH offers aftermarket coil fork springs plus a state of the art damper. How hard can it be to design and manufacture a fork chassis? The chassis seems like the easy part. They've already got a highly regarded shock, why not take what seems like the logical next step and offer their own fork?

    Anyway that's what I'm wondering. Again, pure speculation.
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    I wonder what price point would price them out of the market on a fork? $1200?
    A fork seems logical but I though that for a long time and in way they do offer complete forks now.

    Lighter 11-6
    Fork
    Dropper
    Air shock
    Their own frame would be interesting. They must have as much kinematics knowledge as anyone else in the game.

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    I would guess a company like push isnít going to make something unless itís better than whatís already available. Making a fork chassis is actually very tricky and expensive so I donít see them going there when rockshox etc already make a fantastic chassis for them to drop bits in to.

    If I was to make a prediction, I would say continued evolution of the 11-6 and acs-3, plus maybe more fork damper upgrades?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    With them blowing out the ElevenSix does anyone have any hints of what to expect next from them?
    An AC97 compression system that works for pre-boost, 100 mm axle, Pike? Pleeeeeeeeease?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Total speculation here but ever since PUSH offered the HC97 Pike damper I've wondered how long it would be before PUSH offered their own complete fork.

    PUSH offers aftermarket coil fork springs plus a state of the art damper. How hard can it be to design and manufacture a fork chassis? The chassis seems like the easy part. They've already got a highly regarded shock, why not take what seems like the logical next step and offer their own fork?

    Anyway that's what I'm wondering. Again, pure speculation.
    =sParty
    Developing a whole fork is a massive step up. They're only a few percent of the way there in parts count with some damper upgrade parts and spring system. The complexity and testing of developing a CSU and lowers that hit weight and stiffness targets without creaking or cracking should not be underestimated.

    Perhaps Push can enter the DH market? It's easy to stretch their shock sizes out a little.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    An AC97 compression system that works for pre-boost, 100 mm axle, Pike? Pleeeeeeeeease?
    Just tune what you've got.
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  8. #8
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    Been so close, so many times to buying an 11-6... but I kept coming back to having drop all that money on something that should I change frames I'm in for a lot more cash.

    Wish PUSH could make it easier to have the shock carry over to other frames.

    That said, looks like frame geo/tech/development is slowing down and plateauing. Hoping the next frame I get will live with me a lot long longer. Then going with the 11-6 would be a safer bet.

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    What's Next from Push?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Been so close, so many times to buying an 11-6... but I kept coming back to having drop all that money on something that should I change frames I'm in for a lot more cash.
    I'm fairly sure they can rebuild it to make it fit you next frame. Free of charge? I donít know.

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    Pull?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Pull?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Perhaps Push can enter the DH market? It's easy to stretch their shock sizes out a little.
    I donít know about the shocks, but their ACS3 is coming for Boxxers and 40/49s

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    1) Custom tuned and fit coil dropper post. Darren will personally measure your inseam using a NIST traceably calibrated steel measuring tape.

    2) Custom fork boots, made in the USA from recycled MAGA and Feel the Bern hats.

    3) A fully updated and all new combo of thudbuster and suspension steerer tube, now for modern geometries.

    4) Custom tuned fenders

    5) Pint glasses. Coil, not air.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Pull?
    Okay, I chuckled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Been so close, so many times to buying an 11-6... but I kept coming back to having drop all that money on something that should I change frames I'm in for a lot more cash.

    Wish PUSH could make it easier to have the shock carry over to other frames.

    That said, looks like frame geo/tech/development is slowing down and plateauing. Hoping the next frame I get will live with me a lot long longer. Then going with the 11-6 would be a safer bet.
    Look into an avalanche tuned bomber CR. Craig can change it to fit most frames for a reasonable amount.

    Nothing against push, their shock is great and they have always been very helpful.

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    I'd be stoked if Push could create a simpler 11-6 without the two-in-one damping circuits. I just don't need or want a shock that toggles between two damping options, and I honestly just don't use on-the-fly damping adjustments on newer, well-designed frames. If they could put their quality design into a simpler package which still offers the customization at a lower price point, that'd be a winner.

  17. #17
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    Progressive spring and/or bypass shock? Dual-rate coil would be cool. All stuff that currently exists in off-road desert racing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zhendo View Post
    I'd be stoked if Push could create a simpler 11-6 without the two-in-one damping circuits. I just don't need or want a shock that toggles between two damping options, and I honestly just don't use on-the-fly damping adjustments on newer, well-designed frames. If they could put their quality design into a simpler package which still offers the customization at a lower price point, that'd be a winner.

    Avalanche bomber cr....

  19. #19
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    I'm holding out for something more aggressive, Shove.
    Do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Been so close, so many times to buying an 11-6... but I kept coming back to having drop all that money on something that should I change frames I'm in for a lot more cash.

    Wish PUSH could make it easier to have the shock carry over to other frames.

    That said, looks like frame geo/tech/development is slowing down and plateauing. Hoping the next frame I get will live with me a lot long longer. Then going with the 11-6 would be a safer bet.
    Push are already one of the few companies that are able to to change your existing shock to fit a new bike and still be completely optimised. Yeah it isn't cheap but this is a "money no object" kind of product. If you want top performance you have to pay for it. The only way to bring down the cost of something is to sacrifice performance. It is no different to rebuilding a wheel on to a 148 hub when your old bike was 142.
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    CC proved that you can lose the piggyback (with their inline version) and build a hard hitting coil shock for mid travel bikes that is light, cheap and reliable. lots and lots of riders are now using it ... but itíd be good to see some competition ... especially coming from Push. I agree with the comment above saying that we donít need two different circuits ...

    In short, a Push custom tuned equivalent of the CC inline coil would be brilliant!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    CC proved that you can lose the piggyback (with their inline version) and build a hard hitting coil shock for mid travel bikes that is light, cheap and reliable. lots and lots of riders are now using it ... but itíd be good to see some competition ... especially coming from Push. I agree with the comment above saying that we donít need two different circuits ...

    In short, a Push custom tuned equivalent of the CC inline coil would be brilliant!
    On shorter travel bikes you are probably right. On 160mm+ having the dual circuit is awesome.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbmaddux View Post
    5) Pint glasses. Coil, not air.
    I think you missed the memo. They're 470 and 570cc glasses now. We've all gone metric.

    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    CC proved that you can lose the piggyback (with their inline version) and build a hard hitting coil shock for mid travel bikes that is light, cheap and reliable.
    The inlines unfortunately haven't matched the piggy backs for performance or reliability.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    570cc glasses now. We've all gone metric.
    Are you sure that's not 569.99c?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbmaddux View Post
    Are you sure that's not 569.99c?
    That's the SRAM Dub version. It's not compatible with anything else.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    I'm holding out for something more aggressive, Shove.
    Definitely registering "Shove Industries" as a trademark now!
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post

    Just tune what you've got.
    (a) I don't want to stay without my fork! and (b) I have no idea how to tune a pike myself ... so it would be nice to have a boost compatible HC97 :
    Last edited by Davide; 01-08-2020 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    CC proved that you can lose the piggyback (with their inline version) and build a hard hitting coil shock for mid travel bikes that is light, cheap and reliable. lots and lots of riders are now using it ... but itíd be good to see some competition ... especially coming from Push. I agree with the comment above saying that we donít need two different circuits ...

    In short, a Push custom tuned equivalent of the CC inline coil would be brilliant!
    I know Push custom build the 11-6 for you, but imagine a CC shock that has an adjustable climb switch?? That would be pretty awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meyercord View Post
    Look into an avalanche tuned bomber CR. Craig can change it to fit most frames for a reasonable amount.

    Nothing against push, their shock is great and they have always been very helpful.
    Yeah. Got an Avy cart in my Boxxer, and a Van RC waiting to go to Craig for my DH rig.


    If Craig could make the Bomber/Van LSC dial a bit more user friendly to use on the fly, that could work nice for those wanting that sort of thing.


    As for the CC Inline coil, it works really well with my frame. The "Climb switch" can be engaged in a graduated fashion, making it adjustable and more than just a climb switch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The inlines unfortunately haven't matched the piggy backs for performance or reliability.
    I had one on an older bike, and it crapped out very quickly. Bushing overlap was too short, and the shaft started shifting out of parallel to the shock body. Blew the shock very quickly, and CC basically wrote me back saying that they'd warranty it but didn't have a true fix for the issue "yet". Not sure if a redesign was ever implemented, but seemed like a pretty fatal flaw that would kill your shock in a hurry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zhendo View Post
    I had one on an older bike, and it crapped out very quickly. Bushing overlap was too short, and the shaft started shifting out of parallel to the shock body. Blew the shock very quickly, and CC basically wrote me back saying that they'd warranty it but didn't have a true fix for the issue "yet". Not sure if a redesign was ever implemented, but seemed like a pretty fatal flaw that would kill your shock in a hurry.
    They revised the sealhead with increased overlap a couple of years ago. In my experience the reliabilty has been great since then. I switch between a DBcoil and DBair IL in my own bike and rate the Air IL highly for the price!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    I know Push custom build the 11-6 for you, but imagine a CC shock that has an adjustable climb switch?? That would be pretty awesome.
    You mean like my cane creek coil cs?
    The one with an externally settable lsc and Lsr for both climb and normal mode.. Did I mention the climb switch is on my bars?

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    The word on the street is Push is coming out with 3 things:

    2 new versions of the 11-6
    lightweight shorter travel uses
    long travel

    Coil fork

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    Quote Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
    2 new versions of the 11-6
    lightweight shorter travel uses
    long travel
    Please loose the piggyback and be lightweight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Yeah. Got an Avy cart in my Boxxer, and a Van RC waiting to go to Craig for my DH rig.


    If Craig could make the Bomber/Van LSC dial a bit more user friendly to use on the fly, that could work nice for those wanting that sort of thing.


    As for the CC Inline coil, it works really well with my frame. The "Climb switch" can be engaged in a graduated fashion, making it adjustable and more than just a climb switch.
    I may be in the minority, but I like how the LSC and LSR knobs are setup because they make it unlikely to change accidentally. I would actually prefer tooled adjustments like on the fox x2 and dhx2, however i understand I am likely in the minority. Iím a big fan of Allen key adjustments. Seems like easier adjustments on the bomber Cr/ van Cr is as ďsimple,Ē as larger ďknobs.Ē

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    I donít know about the shocks, but their ACS3 is coming for Boxxers and 40/49s
    Where did you hear that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimarin View Post
    Where did you hear that?
    I saw a prototype this summer AND a little bird told me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    Awsome, thanks man! Good to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    and that couldn't be a normal fox airside top cap with an acs3 valve cover?

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    What's Next from Push?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meyercord View Post
    and that couldn't be a normal fox airside top cap with an acs3 valve cover?
    It could, but the guy riding it (I canít give too much info) gave me more insights about this prototype and we talked about it for quit a while as I was using one myself on a Lyric. He's genuine and I donít think we would have spent half an hour talking about it (setup, pros, cons, etc ...) if it was BS!

  42. #42
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    Dougal saying the prototype sucks in 5...4...3...2...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Dougal saying the prototype sucks in 5...4...3...2...
    C'mon

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    I donít know about the shocks, but their ACS3 is coming for Boxxers and 40/49s
    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    I saw a prototype this summer AND a little bird told me.
    Just FYI, we haven't built a single prototype part or even fired up Solidworks for a single design for installing our coil kit into a BoXXer or FOX 40. It was a very brief internal discussion at one point but that's as far as it went. There are no plans to expand our ACS3 kit offerings. The person you spoke with was mistaken.

    Darren

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    11-6 now completely sold out on the website. The teasing is real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Just FYI, we haven't built a single prototype part or even fired up Solidworks for a single design for installing our coil kit into a BoXXer or FOX 40. It was a very brief internal discussion at one point but that's as far as it went. There are no plans to expand our ACS3 kit offerings. The person you spoke with was mistaken.

    Darren
    Is it possible that he (somehow) installed a 36 kit into his 49?!

    Thanks for the clarification anyway, at least now we know!

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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    Is it possible that he (somehow) installed a 36 kit into his 49?!

    Thanks for the clarification anyway, at least now we know!
    No, it wouldn't be possible. I'm assuming the image you posted is photoshpopped or something as the scale of the top cap to the stanchion diameter is weird.

    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    It could, but the guy riding it (I canít give too much info) gave me more insights about this prototype and we talked about it for quit a while as I was using one myself on a Lyric. He's genuine and I donít think we would have spent half an hour talking about it (setup, pros, cons, etc ...) if it was BS!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Dougal saying the prototype sucks in 5...4...3...2...
    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    No, it wouldn't be possible. I'm assuming the image you posted is photoshpopped or something as the scale of the top cap to the stanchion diameter is weird.

    Darren
    Well that was awkward!

    I don't understand why RS and Fox stopped making coils for their DH forks. It would be very simple for them to start back up again (minimal changes required with chassis updates since) and they'd have another aftermarket upgrade to sell.
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    What's Next from Push?

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    No, it wouldn't be possible. I'm assuming the image you posted is photoshpopped or something as the scale of the top cap to the stanchion diameter is weird.

    Darren
    I took the pic myself in Final Ligure in October ... so itís 100% genuine! now I donít know whatís behind that top cap, but I believe you!


  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I don't understand why RS and Fox stopped making coils for their DH forks. It would be very simple for them to start back up again (minimal changes required with chassis updates since) and they'd have another aftermarket upgrade to sell.
    But you know why. Everything Fox does is "kinda good enough for some riders" to maximize their profit and production. Air DH forks, which make infinite sense for rental bike fleets, only require one spring from the factory, the air spring, and production can be maximized and costs better controlled, vs. having to have coil springs made and tested and many different lengths/weights. That's a no-brainer from the business side of things. If you want suspension that maximizes performance...you have to look elsewhere.

    Its also interesting because they did a 180 from their market entrance, where they didnít make ďcheapĒ dampers and did not put out terrible stuff, save for their totally inappropriate sealing system for open bath. They made float and vanilla and it worked well.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    But you know why. Everything Fox does is "kinda good enough for some riders" to maximize their profit and production. Air DH forks, which make infinite sense for rental bike fleets, only require one spring from the factory, the air spring, and production can be maximized and costs better controlled, vs. having to have coil springs made and tested and many different lengths/weights. That's a no-brainer from the business side of things. If you want suspension that maximizes performance...you have to look elsewhere.

    Its also interesting because they did a 180 from their market entrance, where they didnít make ďcheapĒ dampers and did not put out terrible stuff, save for their totally inappropriate sealing system for open bath. They made float and vanilla and it worked well.
    Indeed. They've gone completely mainstream and keep redesigning products to make them cheaper.

    It's become like all the other industries where innovation is coming from the smaller players. The big guys play it safe, crank out the same stuff with minor tweaks to sell in volume.

    Back to the original topic. I'd expect Push to redesign their shock to fit within the piggy back shock envelope that the big players use. So they don't have to muck around with different reservoir configurations for different frames.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post

    The inlines unfortunately haven't matched the piggy backs for performance or reliability.
    TBF there isn't anything wrong with the inline shocks and most people would struggle to tell the difference.

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    What's Next from Push?

    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    TBF there isn't anything wrong with the inline shocks and most people would struggle to tell the difference.
    +1

    But I think he was talking about the shaft diameter being wider, therefore stronger on the regular CCDB coil. (I can be wrong)

    From a performance point of view, I canít tell the difference ... with PB on the DH and without on my enduro ... they are both fantastic!!

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Total speculation here but ever since PUSH offered the HC97 Pike damper I've wondered how long it would be before PUSH offered their own complete fork.
    I could get behind that!

    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Indeed. They've gone completely mainstream and keep redesigning products to make them cheaper.

    It's become like all the other industries where innovation is coming from the smaller players. The big guys play it safe, crank out the same stuff with minor tweaks to sell in volume.

    Back to the original topic. I'd expect Push to redesign their shock to fit within the piggy back shock envelope that the big players use. So they don't have to muck around with different reservoir configurations for different frames.
    Without compromising reservoir volume, we're not able to fit inside that envelope. The small volume reservoirs with their lengthy IFP displacement allow for easier fitment, but at a performance compromise that we're not willing to make.

    Darren

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    What's Next from Push?

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Without compromising reservoir volume, we're not able to fit inside that envelope. The small volume reservoirs with their lengthy IFP displacement allow for easier fitment, but at a performance compromise that we're not willing to make.

    Darren
    Pardon me if it's a stupid question but how does CC make such a ęgoodĽ inline coil shock without having a piggyback?! I'm not trying to be cheeky, honestly!

    Is there such a big difference between what a ęriderĽ can feel being good/great and what a computer/machine can show as being better?

    What I'm trying to say I guess, is:

    Would a rider feel or miss something without the PB ...if it was hidden internally or scaled down. CC proved to the MTB community that itís possible and it works really well ... for small to medium travel bikes.

    And all that discussion about keeping it or loosing it (at least for me) is about weight. Back to the inline, I guess itís such a hit amongst riders because:

    1) - they fit lots of frames
    2) - they are lightweight
    3) - they are compatible with SLS springs and it improves point 2 even more
    4) - they have an amazing customer service and they care about their customers (yep no thatís a lie, they have a shitty customer service and they really donít care about us, hopefully their coil shocks are mint)

    If you were to make such a coil shock it would be an instant hit (with a top notch customer service)

    Thanks for your replies, itís always much appreciated and enlightening
    Last edited by digev; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    But you know why. Everything Fox does is "kinda good enough for some riders" to maximize their profit and production. Air DH forks, which make infinite sense for rental bike fleets, only require one spring from the factory, the air spring, and production can be maximized and costs better controlled, vs. having to have coil springs made and tested and many different lengths/weights. That's a no-brainer from the business side of things. If you want suspension that maximizes performance...you have to look elsewhere.

    Its also interesting because they did a 180 from their market entrance, where they didnít make ďcheapĒ dampers and did not put out terrible stuff, save for their totally inappropriate sealing system for open bath. They made float and vanilla and it worked well.
    Soooo...the Fox 40 is omnipresent on the UCI World Cup and EWS circuits...so I kinda doubt that your contention is valid. Plus, Fox offers a fairly wide range of tunability (somewhat depends on damper/fork/shock), for example the X2 shock. They also offer a spectrum of dampers from simple/cheap to complex/highly adjustable/more expensive. In short, such a generalization like you've made isn't really that fair.

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    What's Next from Push?

    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Soooo...the Fox 40 is omnipresent on the UCI World Cup and EWS circuits...so I kinda doubt that your contention is valid. Plus, Fox offers a fairly wide range of tunability (somewhat depends on damper/fork/shock), for example the X2 shock. They also offer a spectrum of dampers from simple/cheap to complex/highly adjustable/more expensive. In short, such a generalization like you've made isn't really that fair.
    The 11.6 are super good, right? As a privateer with enough money I would probably get the best/most reliable/custom tuned shock money can buy and call it a day, right? Do you see a lot of 11.6 on the EWS circuit?!

    Do you see where Iím going with this?

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    ... and if we just ... One Shock, many trails

    Our goal was very simple with ELEVENSIX. Build one shock, the ultimate trail bike shock, that is just at home with a day of riding under these conditions:



    Hey, Aggy even rode it in Rampage this year!

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-c...page-2019.html

    Darren

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    What's Next from Push?

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Our goal was very simple with ELEVENSIX. Build one shock, the ultimate trail bike shock, that is just at home with a day of riding under these conditions:
    Nice vid

    But who spends a day of riding a ętrail bikeĽ like this? 0.1%?

    Whatever you come up with next will be dope, I'm sure ... I was just hoping for some (real life) upgrade. Such as the ACS3 ... I'm still smiling after each and every ride on it after 9 months of use ...
    Last edited by digev; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:58 PM.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Without compromising reservoir volume, we're not able to fit inside that envelope. The small volume reservoirs with their lengthy IFP displacement allow for easier fitment, but at a performance compromise that we're not willing to make.

    Darren
    Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    TBF there isn't anything wrong with the inline shocks and most people would struggle to tell the difference.
    When they came out they had a whole heap of issues. Sharp edges inside the head which sliced the bladder, bladders which touched the screw heads and sharp edges, air seals without enough squeeze which caused stuck down and damper seals without enough squeeze which let damper oil into the air-cans.

    Probably the worst thing was they got specced on Specialized Enduro's with yokes that could crank on the shock sideways.

    The updates fixed most of that. They sorted the sharp edges, domed the bladders, produced new air seal pistons and damper seal caps. But they were still having issues on the Specialized bikes and people on other bikes swapped them out. They also discolour and degrade oil faster than any other shock.

    I recommend people go for the big CC DB whenever they have the choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Soooo...the Fox 40 is omnipresent on the UCI World Cup and EWS circuits...so I kinda doubt that your contention is valid. Plus, Fox offers a fairly wide range of tunability (somewhat depends on damper/fork/shock), for example the X2 shock. They also offer a spectrum of dampers from simple/cheap to complex/highly adjustable/more expensive. In short, such a generalization like you've made isn't really that fair.
    Why do you think the most popular DH fork being omnipresent on race circuits means anything?

    Between sponsored riders and bikes that come factory fitted with 40 or Boxxer you have the market basically sewn up. It costs money to remove them and install something else. Unless you've got another sponsor sending product.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Soooo...the Fox 40 is omnipresent on the UCI World Cup and EWS circuits...so I kinda doubt that your contention is valid. Plus, Fox offers a fairly wide range of tunability (somewhat depends on damper/fork/shock), for example the X2 shock. They also offer a spectrum of dampers from simple/cheap to complex/highly adjustable/more expensive. In short, such a generalization like you've made isn't really that fair.
    You realize that the pro circuit riders ride on free shit right? The bigger the company, the more free shit they can afford to give out. Whether it's the best or not has absolutely no relevance whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
    You realize that the pro circuit riders ride on free shit right? The bigger the company, the more free shit they can afford to give out. Whether it's the best or not has absolutely no relevance whatsoever.
    Of course I do. And you're insane if you think they'd ride shitty suspension. It's their career, their livelihood, and their safety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Of course I do. And you're insane if you think they'd ride shitty suspension. It's their career, their livelihood, and their safety.
    Who here is saying that Fox is shitty suspension? Everyone is basically saying it's good enough. That's far from shitty and also far from the best. A pro rider can get on the podium with good enough all day long and they do.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Of course I do. And you're insane if you think they'd ride shitty suspension. It's their career, their livelihood, and their safety.
    They ride what they're told to ride. It is as simple as that.
    What would be interesting is to have Pinkbike or someone run an anonymous survey. They do it in golf, where they ask the players what equipment they would use if they weren't paid to use it. IE Driver, putters, balls, irons etc.
    Nearly everyone says Mizuno irons. Who pay virtually no one so have a tiny Tour presence.

    It would be interesting to see what DH riders would say. But then again, I don't know how easy it is at a race to wander down to Manitou/DVO/MRP etc and borrow a fork, like players can get (golf equipment) at big events.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    They ride what they're told to ride. It is as simple as that.
    It's not that simple though. Running blacked out logos is far from uncommon and there have even been credible rumors of using fake logos to meet obligations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    It's not that simple though. Running blacked out logos is far from uncommon and there have even been credible rumors of using fake logos to meet obligations.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    That's done with wheels in pro road cycling I beleive .

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by karpiel View Post
    That's done with wheels in pro road cycling I beleive .
    Tires. Happens so often in the cobbled Classics as to be unremarkable.


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    Death from Below.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    It's become like all the other industries where innovation is coming from the smaller players. The big guys play it safe, crank out the same stuff with minor tweaks to sell in volume.
    Another fresh example! Marzzocchi (Fox) selling a Z1 with coil or the kit to convert it for 2020 ... no shit?!

    https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/marzocchi...z1-coil-393840

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    It's not that simple though. Running blacked out logos is far from uncommon and there have even been credible rumors of using fake logos to meet obligations.

    Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk
    I havenīt heard about blacked out forks and shocks yet, pretty hard to do with shapes that are very easily recognized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    Another fresh example! Marzzocchi (Fox) selling a Z1 with coil or the kit to convert it for 2020 ... no shit?!
    Come on now, making coil fork is no harder than making air fork, in fact itīs easier and Iīm surprised it took fox this long to milk this cow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Of course I do. And you're insane if you think they'd ride shitty suspension. It's their career, their livelihood, and their safety.
    Nothing that fox or rockshox make are "shitty", and none of the smaller brands have support at the races so all the top riders are on the same stock product we can buy because they can get it tuned and serviced at the races easily with no fuss.

    At the end of the day an off-the-shelf suspension product that is properly set up and serviced every round is going to work better than something more boutique that gets thrashed for several months between rebuilds
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Suspension servicing & tuning in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    Come on now, making coil fork is no harder than making air fork, in fact itīs easier and Iīm surprised it took fox this long to milk this cow.
    Neither coil or air is easy to make, and converting an existing chassis to coil is harder than you think. First up you have to make sure you can fit springs that cover a wide range of weight and that isn't always possible within the dimensions of some forks. You also have to make sure they run quiet

    Then you have to be able to supply those springs and make sure people actually change them, its amazing how resistant riders are to buying a $80 spring for their $10,000 bike!
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Suspension servicing & tuning in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    Neither coil or air is easy to make, and converting an existing chassis to coil is harder than you think. First up you have to make sure you can fit springs that cover a wide range of weight and that isn't always possible within the dimensions of some forks. You also have to make sure they run quiet

    Then you have to be able to supply those springs and make sure people actually change them, its amazing how resistant riders are to buying a $80 spring for their $10,000 bike!
    Thatīs what makes it harder for me or you to produce, not for company producing thousands of forks daily with pretty good experience making them as well. And they offer 4 different spring rates so they havenīt tried too hard there. I think you will agree that there less to go wrong with coil vs air design. Less seals to fail, no equalisation ports, no low friction seal head necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Tires. Happens so often in the cobbled Classics as to be unremarkable.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, and tires. When Lightweights first came on the scene riders bought their own and stuck SHIMANO in big letters on the rims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    Neither coil or air is easy to make, and converting an existing chassis to coil is harder than you think. First up you have to make sure you can fit springs that cover a wide range of weight and that isn't always possible within the dimensions of some forks. You also have to make sure they run quiet

    Then you have to be able to supply those springs and make sure people actually change them, its amazing how resistant riders are to buying a $80 spring for their $10,000 bike!
    I hope it's not that hard to convert, still pondering about converting my dorado!

    It might have the best air system going...but nothing felt as plush as my '03 dorado.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant View Post
    I hope it's not that hard to convert, still pondering about converting my dorado!

    It might have the best air system going...but nothing felt as plush as my '03 dorado.
    I think itīs called rosy retrospection

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by digev View Post
    Another fresh example! Marzzocchi (Fox) selling a Z1 with coil or the kit to convert it for 2020 ... no shit?!

    https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/marzocchi...z1-coil-393840
    If Push were planning to release a coil fork then the market place just got more crowded! I wonder what weight/travel bracket they're shooting for?

    Producing a commercial air spring fork is extremely difficult with the number of patents to avoid. Let alone the complexity and odd behaviour of air springs while keeping them reliable.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    I havenīt heard about blacked out forks and shocks yet, pretty hard to do with shapes that are very easily recognized.
    I know of no confirmed cases either but Fox performance forks could probably be run as Rockshox if someone wanted.

    And running a Smashpot or ACS-3 inside a fork would not be too difficult to hide either.

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    If you are buying any bike you expect the shop to set it up for you. Shops like air, brands like air, 80% of consumers like air. Shops don't like coil and brands don't like coil. They need to stock springs for forks and shocks rather than just an air pump. Most shops don't even bother with volume spacers.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    I think itīs called rosy retrospection
    Not really.

    I ran the two forks back to back.

    I'd done a LOT of work on my '03. Custom spring stacks, oil, rebored the low-speed orifice and did a bit of shim work. I'd converted it from a 26" 200mm to a 29er 150mm trail fork (with externally adjustable travel).

    I ran it until a couple of years ago when a bushing came loose and got the '15.

    When you slightly unweighted the front it'd disappear. You could be riding obscene trails and you would get no detectable high-speed feedback at the bar.

    I had a fun moment where a guy we were riding with asked to stop because his hands were destroyed, to me that trail felt as smooth as paved road.

    the '15 is a lot better in every other way (well I miss the old headset style), but not as smooth.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant View Post
    Not really.

    I ran the two forks back to back.

    I'd done a LOT of work on my '03. Custom spring stacks, oil, rebored the low-speed orifice and did a bit of shim work. I'd converted it from a 26" 200mm to a 29er 150mm trail fork (with externally adjustable travel).

    I ran it until a couple of years ago when a bushing came loose and got the '15.

    When you slightly unweighted the front it'd disappear. You could be riding obscene trails and you would get no detectable high-speed feedback at the bar.

    I had a fun moment where a guy we were riding with asked to stop because his hands were destroyed, to me that trail felt as smooth as paved road.

    the '15 is a lot better in every other way (well I miss the old headset style), but not as smooth.
    With the right headset you could chuck it back on? I'd love to see something like this on Pinkbike, Shiver DC vs Dorado vs Boxxer etc.

  83. #83
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    I could fit it with this headset. Unfortunately the bush caused a lot of damage when it came loose. The new dorado is better in every other way though.
    Best of both worlds would be to coil the new one.
    Just struggling thinking of non daft ways!

  84. #84
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    Quote from March 2019

    Source: https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...s-1094321.html

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post


    This product will be available for Pike, Lyrik, and BoXXer RCT3 and RC2 Charger 2 dampers. We do have a MOCO upgrade prototyped as well, and may bring it to market.

    Darren
    We may see a MOCO upgrade soon?!

  85. #85
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    Teaser from PUSH this morning:

    What's Next from Push?-screen-shot-2020-02-17-9.43.40-am.jpg

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