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  1. #1
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    Vorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion

    So, Vorsprung have an upcoming coil conversion for forks and I thought it would be good to get a thread going.
    One thing I noticed they are doing that Push are not is supporting travel up to 180mm. I have a brand new 36 on the way and will be getting a smashpot when they come out, I've heard towards the end of the year.

    Spring looks like it runs the entire length of the fork, is there an advantage doing this way?

    More details here;

    https://bikerumor.com/2018/09/10/cra...hangover-rack/
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    If you click through to the article, be sure to scroll down and read the comment and Vorsprung’s detailed and frankly epic reply.

  3. #3
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    Whoops, fat fingers = double post! See below.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    So, Vorsprung have an upcoming coil conversion for forks and I thought it would be good to get a thread going.
    One thing I noticed they are doing that Push are not is supporting travel up to 180mm. I have a brand new 36 on the way and will be getting a smashpot when they come out, I've heard towards the end of the year.

    Spring looks like it runs the entire length of the fork, is there an advantage doing this way?

    More details here;

    https://bikerumor.com/2018/09/10/cra...hangover-rack/
    We run a longer spring for a few reasons:

    1. It lets us get 170mm and 180mm travel variants. Modern singlecrown forks run quite short stanchions relative to their travel, fitting a coil in there is actually surprisingly difficult and there is a distinct ceiling on both travel and available spring rate for coils within those confines. It seems self-evident that riders running the longest travel bikes are the ones most inclined to prioritise the bump-eating aspects of suspension performance over the lightest possible weight, so cutting out the longest travel variants didn't make much sense to us.

    2. Running a cartridge-style system where the topout assembly is housed inside the main spring allows us to make a universal kit that can easily be installed in different forks and/or at different travels. Different forks only require different top caps (and foot studs if changing brands, the RS and Fox ones are different) but everything else is the same, including the springs. This means you can pull the cartridge out of one fork and install it in a different one, at a different travel if need be (changing travel is done with spacers provided in the kit, no new parts), at a minimum of cost.

    There's a few other logistical aspects (particularly relevant to shops and suspension workshops actually) that this design addresses as well - it means shops can stock the kits at very low risk that they'll end up with expensive parts that never happen to fit their customer's particular fork, because the most expensive bits fit everything.

    Also there are a couple of minor errors in that Bikerumor article for anyone who cares - only one EWS racer so far was actually running the Smashpot, although there were a number of high profile riders on Luftkappes through 2017 and 18. Secondly, the kit is actually 130-180mm adjustable (not 140-180).

    There's a bit more going on with these kits that we haven't revealed yet, full info including pricing and release date will be forthcoming once they're ready to go. Feel free to email with any questions in the meantime.

    Steve
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    Can you please give some more information about the "progressive engagement hydraulic anti-bottom out"? How does it work? Is it adjustable on the fly? How noisy is the coil?

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    I really don't get the coil hype. From what I understand is that a coil fork is going to feel very similar to a properly functioning air fork.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I really don't get the coil hype. From what I understand is that a coil fork is going to feel very similar to a properly functioning air fork.
    You have to try one. The reduction in stiction is yuuge. Especially in cooler weather. And no funky spring rate at the start of the travel, just buttery smooth linear predictable travel. Not to mention that the spring rate remains the same at all temperatures.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I really don't get the coil hype. From what I understand is that a coil fork is going to feel very similar to a properly functioning air fork.
    A good air spring works very well overall. Sounds like you've never ridden a coil system though? Try one and judge for yourself. Coil spring systems have advantages and disadvantages - the spring rate is completely linear (advantage in the first 1/3 of the stroke for compliance and the middle 1/3 for mid-stroke support, disadvantage at the end where higher force is beneficial, hence the anti-bottoming system), friction is zero vs "low enough" in air springs, they are completely temperature insensitive, they're considerably heavier, they don't get stickier between services, they have distinct spring increments instead of being infinitely adjustable, you can run a lot more lubricant in the lowers, etc.

    Horses for courses. We are certainly not abandoning air springs, but there's a certain contingent of people who just want their bikes to eat bumps as well as possible with minimum fuss even if it's a bit heavier. Those are the people who'll want this kit. For others, the Luftkappe might serve you better.
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    Super genius.. Another take on the coil that looks very well thought out. Johnshonda, even the latest and greatest air springs don't compare to the feel of a coil. I've been on the push coil a year and rode the 2019 36 with the air spring for a few weeks to see if it was as good as they say. It just can't match the suppleness and consistent feel of a coil. I've already gone back to coil since. While the air has gotten better it's still not really "coil like" as they claim with each new fork model year release. It may seem like it until you actually ride a coil. Kudos Vorsprung, thanks for the continued innovation.

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    SteveVS - How old of a fork do you guys make this kit for? I have a 2010 Fox 36 that I would love a coil for. I'm not in any position to buy a new bike anytime soon, but I can foot the bill for a coil kit. I'm still riding a 26" Knolly Chilcotin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I really don't get the coil hype. From what I understand is that a coil fork is going to feel very similar to a properly functioning air fork.
    Sounds like you've never ridden a properly setup coil fork. They beat air springs everywhere.

    Air springs with three chambers (negative and two positive) do a very good job. But there is absolutely nothing that behaves and feels like a coil spring.

    We're looking forward to delivery of these. They fill a big gap in the market.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    SteveVS - How old of a fork do you guys make this kit for? I have a 2010 Fox 36 that I would love a coil for. I'm not in any position to buy a new bike anytime soon, but I can foot the bill for a coil kit. I'm still riding a 26" Knolly Chilcotin.
    At the moment, back to 2015 for the 36. The difference between a kit to fit the 2015 and a 2010 is just a top cap though due to the modular design, so hardly unreasonable to make something for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimarin View Post
    Super genius.. Another take on the coil that looks very well thought out. Johnshonda, even the latest and greatest air springs don't compare to the feel of a coil. I've been on the push coil a year and rode the 2019 36 with the air spring for a few weeks to see if it was as good as they say. It just can't match the suppleness and consistent feel of a coil. I've already gone back to coil since. While the air has gotten better it's still not really "coil like" as they claim with each new fork model year release. It may seem like it until you actually ride a coil. Kudos Vorsprung, thanks for the continued innovation.
    Thanks for the kind words. Credit where credit is due though - the speed sensitive HBO system was pioneered by Jeremy Wilkey at MX-Tech several years ago, we've adapted that concept for MTB and made it externally adjustable to account for the proportionally wider weight range of MTBs.
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  14. #14
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    I'll be converting my 36 to coil over the winter. Will definitely have to give this kit a hard look vs Push in execution, price & weight.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Thanks for all the feedback on the coil vs. air, as you can tell I have zero experience with a coil fork. Makes sense to me and I do notice a difference in colder temps. Hmmmm…..already have an Avy cart in the pike, but now it sounds like I need to think about coil.

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    Is there any inheriant benefit to being coil or air on both ends of the bike?

    (front/rear)
    air/coil vs coil/coil vs coil/air?

    Recently switched to coil on the rear and some types of features just feel really poor now but I haven't been able to tune it out with damper adjustments. It feels like under moderate loads, the rear is too deep in it's travel and the weight balance front to rear is off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Is there any inheriant benefit to being coil or air on both ends of the bike?

    (front/rear)
    air/coil vs coil/coil vs coil/air?
    I've got all three options on bikes here. Currently running air front and coil rear on my most used bike. It depends on a hundred factors but generally you can get them to balance well even with different springs at each end.

    My preference is coil/coil. Advantages of air are lighter weight and easy spring rate adjustments.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    would be nice to have a coil option for the mattoc to go with my coil shock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbmaddux View Post
    If you click through to the article, be sure to scroll down and read the comment and Vorsprung’s detailed and frankly epic reply.
    Just read it, epic indeed.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    would be nice to have a coil option for the mattoc to go with my coil shock.
    Not yet unfortunately. I've already checked with Steve and the Mattoc stanchion ID is a shade too small.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Hi Steve. Would your coil conversion play nicely with my pre-existing Avalanche damping cartridge? Maybe that's a question for Craig at Avy?

    Would you be able to give a rough estimate on availability? Like, before next Spring?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Captured spring...does this mean we can go back to air after installation if we want vs the PUSH system being a one and done conversion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VelkePivo View Post
    Hi Steve. Would your coil conversion play nicely with my pre-existing Avalanche damping cartridge? Maybe that's a question for Craig at Avy?

    Would you be able to give a rough estimate on availability? Like, before next Spring?

    Thanks in advance.
    No reason why it wouldn't work with your Avalanche cartridge - might want to play around a little with reducing oil volume on the damper side since it's no longer necessary to use that for bottoming control, but that's the extent of the concerns. Definitely available well before spring.

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmkid85 View Post
    Captured spring...does this mean we can go back to air after installation if we want vs the PUSH system being a one and done conversion?
    We can't guarantee that would be possible - the spring has a certain amount of clearance and the cartridge has a certain amount of flex (as does the fork chassis) so some amount of spring rub is inevitable, meaning there is always the possibility of scoring the stanchion ID. The guide reduces spring contact with the stanchion, but doesn't guarantee that contact would be eliminated.

    With that said, various coil-sprung forks we've inspected have shown no real visible marking on the stanchions from the coil, so it may be possible to go back to air in many cases, but we certainly wouldn't be able to guarantee that across the board.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    No reason why it wouldn't work with your Avalanche cartridge - might want to play around a little with reducing oil volume on the damper side since it's no longer necessary to use that for bottoming control, but that's the extent of the concerns. Definitely available well before spring.
    Great. Thanks for the quick reply. Looking forward to the Smashpot being available. HATE my Pikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    You have to try one. The reduction in stiction is yuuge. Especially in cooler weather. And no funky spring rate at the start of the travel, just buttery smooth linear predictable travel. Not to mention that the spring rate remains the same at all temperatures.
    Not to mention the nostalgia factor for the old Marzocchi forks.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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    Will the smashpot be available for 26 pikes from 2014?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post
    Will the smashpot be available for 26 pikes from 2014?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not yet confirmed, but quite likely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Not to mention the nostalgia factor for the old Marzocchi forks.
    If remembering how good a fork can actually be is nostalgia, then count me as a sentimental old lady.

    My first MZ RC3 fork was a revelation. I couldn't believe how good it was. Since then I've heard a lot about how far air suspension has advanced, but I have a 2015 Pike with an Avy cartridge and I think it's scandalous how bad it is. It's OK on slow hits but on anything like a fast square edged hit it's horrendous. I've tried every setting I could after countless hours of internet research and the only thing that helped a bit was getting a new debonair air spring. Better, but still crap. Maybe I just got a lemon, but in the course of my research I sure read a lot of people hating theirs, too.

    I guess if you ride on smooth or loamy trails the Pike could be OK.

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    And i can't help but notice how each year the new air suspension products are touted as getting closer to coil in feel. That tells me that claims from, say, 5 years ago about how smooth the air suspension was, was just marketing bullshit. Probably still bullshit today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Not yet unfortunately. I've already checked with Steve and the Mattoc stanchion ID is a shade too small.
    With my Avy cartridge i did 2 less clicks of LSC since the mid travel support is much better with a coil.

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    I just want to add that I've had an Avalanche Chubie, an Avy cartridge in my MZ 44 RC3 Ti and have an Avy cartridge in my MZ 380and Pike. Avy stuff is great. I'm in no way faulting Avalanche for how bad my Pike feels (to me).

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    Is it possible to convert a 170mm Fox 36 to 180mm with this kit?

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    I thought I wanted a coil fork until I installed a Luftkappe. This seems like a very very well thought out kit though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VelkePivo View Post
    And i can't help but notice how each year the new air suspension products are touted as getting closer to coil in feel. That tells me that claims from, say, 5 years ago about how smooth the air suspension was, was just marketing bullshit. Probably still bullshit today.
    It's still BS today....that's why you have all these people coming out with aftermarket kits to fix your brand new expensive fork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    No reason why it wouldn't work with your Avalanche cartridge - might want to play around a little with reducing oil volume on the damper side since it's no longer necessary to use that for bottoming control, but that's the extent of the concerns. Definitely available well before spring.



    We can't guarantee that would be possible - the spring has a certain amount of clearance and the cartridge has a certain amount of flex (as does the fork chassis) so some amount of spring rub is inevitable, meaning there is always the possibility of scoring the stanchion ID. The guide reduces spring contact with the stanchion, but doesn't guarantee that contact would be eliminated.

    With that said, various coil-sprung forks we've inspected have shown no real visible marking on the stanchions from the coil, so it may be possible to go back to air in many cases, but we certainly wouldn't be able to guarantee that across the board.

    Just to clear up a couple things, our oil height/volume generates pressure on the oil to prevent cavitation and has only a minor affect on ramp-up compared to the air side or bottom-out systems. Our open bath cartridge also provides bottom control with our optional ABS hydraulic system that we have offered as part of our design for 20 Years. Just another note we have designed and tuned our cartridge for coil systems originally, adapted them for single damper air systems and so there is no reason it would not work very well with the Smashpot Coil conversion.
    We currently offer a coil conversion option for the Fox 36 160/150 travels. It uses a dual spring system in conjunction with our cartridge system. It will also work well with any other coil system (Push, TFTuned).
    Dual Coil Conversion Option

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by VelkePivo View Post
    I just want to add that I've had an Avalanche Chubie, an Avy cartridge in my MZ 44 RC3 Ti and have an Avy cartridge in my MZ 380and Pike. Avy stuff is great. I'm in no way faulting Avalanche for how bad my Pike feels (to me).
    On my Chubie each click gave a noticeable difference when addjusting it. With my Yari I would be fiddling with it between services (which were often) and it took a few clicks to feel a difference. Once i went to coil each click is like the Chubie now. RS forks have a ton of stiction IMHO

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    Is it possible to convert a 170mm Fox 36 to 180mm with this kit?
    With the Smashpot, it will be possible to run any compatible fork at anything up to its maximum chassis-specified travel by changing the spacer configuration of the kit in 10mm increments. In the case of 36s that is usually either 160mm or 180mm, depending on the model year and the damper configuration (some dampers are 160 max, others 180 max). If your fork is 170mm right now, chances are it is 180-compatible. There are a handful of OEM forks out there that don't quite obey the "usual" maximum travel rules-of-thumb however.

    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    I thought I wanted a coil fork until I installed a Luftkappe. This seems like a very very well thought out kit though.
    Glad you're liking the Luftkappe. Truthfully, coil forks aren't for everyone. They are noticeably heavier and you lack the infinite adjustment of an air spring, but the linear initial spring rate and complete lack of sliding friction definitely help with the feel and the grip. Again, we are certainly not abandoning air springs, just giving people options. If compliance and grip when descending are your main priority and the weight is not a big concern for you, then coils are hard to argue with. If you do a ton of climbing and you really enjoy a light bike, or you alter settings from one riding scenario to another fairly frequently, or even if you just like a super progressive setup in general then air sprung stuff is great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    Just to clear up a couple things, our oil height/volume generates pressure on the oil to prevent cavitation and has only a minor affect on ramp-up compared to the air side or bottom-out systems. Our open bath cartridge also provides bottom control with our optional ABS hydraulic system that we have offered as part of our design for 20 Years. Just another note we have designed and tuned our cartridge for coil systems originally, adapted them for single damper air systems and so there is no reason it would not work very well with the Smashpot Coil conversion.
    We currently offer a coil conversion option for the Fox 36 160/150 travels. It uses a dual spring system in conjunction with our cartridge system. It will also work well with any other coil system (Push, TFTuned).
    Dual Coil Conversion Option
    Great. Thanks for the confirmation.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by VelkePivo View Post
    If remembering how good a fork can actually be is nostalgia, then count me as a sentimental old lady.

    My first MZ RC3 fork was a revelation. I couldn't believe how good it was. Since then I've heard a lot about how far air suspension has advanced, but I have a 2015 Pike with an Avy cartridge and I think it's scandalous how bad it is. It's OK on slow hits but on anything like a fast square edged hit it's horrendous. I've tried every setting I could after countless hours of internet research and the only thing that helped a bit was getting a new debonair air spring. Better, but still crap. Maybe I just got a lemon, but in the course of my research I sure read a lot of people hating theirs, too.

    I guess if you ride on smooth or loamy trails the Pike could be OK.
    I had the same impression of the Pike that you do. I was oh-so-happy to get rid of that POS.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    It's still BS today....that's why you have all these people coming out with aftermarket kits to fix your brand new expensive fork.
    Which is why I bought an MRP Ribbon coil for my current bike. I liked the idea of going coil from the get-go.

    I do have to admit that my last air fork, a Marzocchi 350 NCR was pretty nice. Not quite coil nice though.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    With the Smashpot, it will be possible to run any compatible fork at anything up to its maximum chassis-specified travel by changing the spacer configuration of the kit in 10mm increments. In the case of 36s that is usually either 160mm or 180mm, depending on the model year and the damper configuration (some dampers are 160 max, others 180 max). If your fork is 170mm right now, chances are it is 180-compatible. There are a handful of OEM forks out there that don't quite obey the "usual" maximum travel rules-of-thumb however.



    Glad you're liking the Luftkappe. Truthfully, coil forks aren't for everyone. They are noticeably heavier and you lack the infinite adjustment of an air spring, but the linear initial spring rate and complete lack of sliding friction definitely help with the feel and the grip. Again, we are certainly not abandoning air springs, just giving people options. If compliance and grip when descending are your main priority and the weight is not a big concern for you, then coils are hard to argue with. If you do a ton of climbing and you really enjoy a light bike, or you alter settings from one riding scenario to another fairly frequently, or even if you just like a super progressive setup in general then air sprung stuff is great.
    That compliance is very helpful when you ride a lot of wet roots.

    This looks like a very cool product by the way.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  42. #42
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    I'm interested in this product. Question - does it have a negative spring hidden somewhere, maybe between the rods? The push acs3 has it visible on pictures. Just curious.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben_mtb View Post
    I'm interested in this product. Question - does it have a negative spring hidden somewhere, maybe between the rods? The push acs3 has it visible on pictures. Just curious.
    Yep, the topout spring is inside the cartridge.
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    Steve,

    any news with fox34 compatibility?

    thx
    Oren

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrenPerets View Post
    Steve,

    any news with fox34 compatibility?

    thx
    Oren
    No 34 compatibility at this stage unfortunately!
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  46. #46
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    Steve,

    How about current/future plans for a DVO Diamond kit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by miniwisejosh View Post
    Steve,

    How about current/future plans for a DVO Diamond kit?
    Likely - depends on demand but easy enough to do.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    Likely - depends on demand but easy enough to do.
    Excellent. I hope it works out. Please count me as a contributor to demand for a DVO coil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miniwisejosh View Post
    Excellent. I hope it works out. Please count me as a contributor to demand for a DVO coil.
    Especially since it has a removable air cartridge and you could likely go back and forth. Seems like a great option. If I have the funds when it drops I'm a buyer (just being real.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    No 34 compatibility at this stage unfortunately!
    Please add my request for a 34 variant (130mm) to the pile! Gracias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    Likely - depends on demand but easy enough to do.
    how about cc helm?

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    Me also interested of CC Helm Coil kit from Vorsprung!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    how about cc helm?
    Possible - again dependent on demand.
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  54. #54
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    Steve, how linear will the conversion be without any HBO engaged? (I’m simlpy assuming that the HBO will have a range of adjustment)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Steve, how linear will the conversion be without any HBO engaged? (I’m simlpy assuming that the HBO will have a range of adjustment)
    Set to minimum it has pretty minimal effect. Set to maximum it's quite firm, firmer than I think most people would want. The range is quite wide. And if you really want it to be zero, you can revalve it lighter or for no resistance at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    Set to minimum it has pretty minimal effect. Set to maximum it's quite firm, firmer than I think most people would want. The range is quite wide. And if you really want it to be zero, you can revalve it lighter or for no resistance at all.
    Interesting stuff. Will the kits be custom tuned to the individual customer?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Interesting stuff. Will the kits be custom tuned to the individual customer?
    They can be, upon request, but the range of adjustment is wide and its effect on every other aspect of performance besides bottoming control is nil (ie very easy to set up because it doesn't affect anything else), so not really anticipating that'll be necessary or beneficial in anything but the most extreme cases.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    They can be, upon request, but the range of adjustment is wide and its effect on every other aspect of performance besides bottoming control is nil (ie very easy to set up because it doesn't affect anything else), so not really anticipating that'll be necessary or beneficial in anything but the most extreme cases.
    Okay, got ya.

    What about lubrication, sounds like it’ll be an open bath application?

    Fingers crossed it is open bath. Avy cart one side, Smashpot the other - it would mean almost zero maintenance.
    Last edited by bigcrs; 12-03-2018 at 09:42 AM.

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    Has Vorsprung got any updates of when this might be available to us plebs?


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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    Has Vorsprung got any updates of when this might be available to us plebs?

    Hey mate. Got an email from Steve this morning. Should be available mid to late Jan.
    Waiting on the spring manufacturer to stump up the goods.
    I'm all over one of these like a fat kid on a donut.
    Might be able to combine shipping to the homeland to reduce costs

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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    it would mean almost zero maintenance.
    Just a word of caution, they still need cleaning and oil changes. Even if they're running great.

    Many old school marzocchi owners did no maintenance, then when they did open the fork found it was grinding itself to pieces with debris on the bushings below the seals.

    Same reason you change oil in your car!
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  62. #62
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    Can someone compare the pros & cons of the smashpot vs the ACS3? I'm assuming the main difference will be in bottom out system?
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Can someone compare the pros & cons of the smashpot vs the ACS3? I'm assuming the main difference will be in bottom out system?
    Also variable length and option to interchange to other forks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Just a word of caution, they still need cleaning and oil changes. Even if they're running great.

    Many old school marzocchi owners did no maintenance, then when they did open the fork found it was grinding itself to pieces with debris on the bushings below the seals.

    Same reason you change oil in your car!
    No I understand, that’s why I said ‘almost’. My riding mate was one of those guys. Jeez he still is lol. He still doesn’t get why his Pike is running like crap with zero services since (almost 3 years) got the thing.

    My Avy’d forks of the past would see more oil changes than was necessary beacause of the wipers, air spring service and year round PNW riding conditions.

    IF the Smashpot is open bath, and depending on the fork it’s dropped into, it’ll probably see more oil changes than required because of the damper (and everything listed above) service intervals.

    At this stage it is a big ‘IF’, because we have next to no details on the Smashpot.

    Man I love Smashpot as a name. My next dog (or for some crazy medically impossible way I end up with a kid) will most likely be called Smashpot!

  65. #65
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    pike/revelation compatible?

  66. #66
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    ah yos it says so in the article, sorry :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTmofo View Post
    Hey mate. Got an email from Steve this morning. Should be available mid to late Jan.
    Might be able to combine shipping to the homeland to reduce costs

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    Lets do it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    Lets do it!
    I'll catch up with you on another forum. DM coming your way.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    My Avy’d forks of the past would see more oil changes than was necessary beacause of the wipers, air spring service and year round PNW riding conditions.
    Maybe that was because of sloppy old forks without annodized internals or something? I change it out of my Lyric and Yarilanche and it's not contaminated/broken down. Few places have as much mud as we do in AK, bottom brackets sometimes last only a few rides. But the Avy cart fork doesn't seem to care. I change the oil at the beginning of the season (spring) and it runs great. 3 years or so, only thing that broke was the creaky crown of the original Lyrik, but has nothing to do with damping.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Maybe that was because of sloppy old forks without annodized internals or something? I change it out of my Lyric and Yarilanche and it's not contaminated/broken down. Few places have as much mud as we do in AK, bottom brackets sometimes last only a few rides. But the Avy cart fork doesn't seem to care. I change the oil at the beginning of the season (spring) and it runs great. 3 years or so, only thing that broke was the creaky crown of the original Lyrik, but has nothing to do with damping.
    hm, most suspension experts say that mud isn´t the worst for the fork wipers, but moon dust is. That thing will make it through any seal given enough time.

  71. #71
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    After a full weekend of DH riding in moon-dust at my local lift assist hill (clay based) you would be surprised at how dirty my open bath damper oil gets. And that is with fresh SKF green seals.

    Powder sugar fine dust sucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    After a full weekend of DH riding in moon-dust at my local lift assist hill (clay based) you would be surprised at how dirty my open bath damper oil gets. And that is with fresh SKF green seals.

    Powder sugar fine dust sucks.
    I'd bet that is just oil breaking down and changing colour. Here's a pictorial:
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BJwIt5Cjchs/

    Oil breakdown makes oil go from clear and clean, to darker colour, then brown and finally black. Some of the damper oil we recover looks like it came out of a farm tractor engine:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BaaRtwZFMIx/

    For dirt and dust to get past seals, you can see it trapped in the seal and packed between both lips. By the time that is happening, the seal is also bypassing oil the other way.

    My riding is also dry and dusty.
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  73. #73
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    Whilst I don't doubt what you say....

    ....and in most cases I would agree, as after riding since the late 60's I've never seen this but...

    ...when you can see the sediment settle out. I was curious as I have never seen fluid come out that colour.
    I'm pretty anal about fork service; nerve damage in the hand etc, so if I want to ride, it must be supple, supple, supple. When the foam rings come out feeling like they are loaded with honing paste I decided to leave them out and run a grease pack instead.
    Figured that a fresh set of the green skf would fix the problem. Nope.
    ( 2013 888 RC3 EVO Ti chassis )

    Last time I played with the shimstack, you could feel it on the shims almost like a honing paste residue.

    Hell maybe somehow the stanchions are undersized but with no bushing slop?? I have no idea but this thing is a talcum powder dust sieve.

    I just stay on top of fork service and ride it, although Redline suspension fluid gets expensive after a bit...
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    hm, most suspension experts say that mud isn´t the worst for the fork wipers, but moon dust is. That thing will make it through any seal given enough time.
    If you've ever worked on an old marzocchi, you know that the oil always came out smelling skank as a nasty sludge with all sorts of metal particulates in it. Every. Single. Time. I don't know what they made the damping carts out of, but it was terrible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Whilst I don't doubt what you say....

    ....and in most cases I would agree, as after riding since the late 60's I've never seen this but...

    ...when you can see the sediment settle out. I was curious as I have never seen fluid come out that colour.
    I'm pretty anal about fork service; nerve damage in the hand etc, so if I want to ride, it must be supple, supple, supple. When the foam rings come out feeling like they are loaded with honing paste I decided to leave them out and run a grease pack instead.
    Figured that a fresh set of the green skf would fix the problem. Nope.
    ( 2013 888 RC3 EVO Ti chassis )

    Last time I played with the shimstack, you could feel it on the shims almost like a honing paste residue.

    Hell maybe somehow the stanchions are undersized but with no bushing slop?? I have no idea but this thing is a talcum powder dust sieve.

    I just stay on top of fork service and ride it, although Redline suspension fluid gets expensive after a bit...
    In my experience once a fork gets in to that state it is a nightmare to remove every last trace of it or else it will turn the oil black again instantly! These days I have multiple stages of cleaning to make sure all residue like that is gone

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    When the foam rings come out feeling like they are loaded with honing paste I decided to leave them out and run a grease pack instead.

    Last time I played with the shimstack, you could feel it on the shims almost like a honing paste residue.

    Hell maybe somehow the stanchions are undersized but with no bushing slop?? I have no idea but this thing is a talcum powder dust sieve.
    It could be your grease. Grease has solids in it that eventually will dissolve into the oil.
    If you put a lot of grease in there, probably made its way into the oil and what you're getting are the dissolved solids of the grease.

    That was another reason for sludge in forks of yore... you'd grease the coil spring to avoid noise/rubbing against the stanchion and you'd get a sludge as it would mix with the oil in the lowers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    It could be your grease. Grease has solids in it that eventually will dissolve into the oil.
    If you put a lot of grease in there, probably made its way into the oil and what you're getting are the dissolved solids of the grease.

    That was another reason for sludge in forks of yore... you'd grease the coil spring to avoid noise/rubbing against the stanchion and you'd get a sludge as it would mix with the oil in the lowers.
    I don´t think solid lubricants in grease could be felt by hand though, it they were large enough you would be able to feel them even when applying it and I´m sure you wouldn´t want to use such a product.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    I don´t think solid lubricants in grease could be felt by hand though, it they were large enough you would be able to feel them even when applying it and I´m sure you wouldn´t want to use such a product.
    The residue would be the thickening agents on the grease, not lubricants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    The residue would be the thickening agents on the grease, not lubricants.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Have you seen this happen before? And maybe more importantly are you sure it wasn´t just contaminants? Seems pretty scary if grease over time will form something that could cause wear to part it´s suppose to protect from wear in the first place.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    Have you seen this happen before? And maybe more importantly are you sure it wasn´t just contaminants? Seems pretty scary if grease over time will form something that could cause wear to part it´s suppose to protect from wear in the first place.
    I've seen the paste like residue forming on wipers, particularly on open bath forks where I used grease for the wipers. Yes, it can look like contaminants but that was not the case.
    Grease is a lubricant with soap like thickeners in the end.

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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Whilst I don't doubt what you say....

    ....and in most cases I would agree, as after riding since the late 60's I've never seen this but...

    ...when you can see the sediment settle out. I was curious as I have never seen fluid come out that colour.
    I'm pretty anal about fork service; nerve damage in the hand etc, so if I want to ride, it must be supple, supple, supple. When the foam rings come out feeling like they are loaded with honing paste I decided to leave them out and run a grease pack instead.
    Figured that a fresh set of the green skf would fix the problem. Nope.
    ( 2013 888 RC3 EVO Ti chassis )

    Last time I played with the shimstack, you could feel it on the shims almost like a honing paste residue.

    Hell maybe somehow the stanchions are undersized but with no bushing slop?? I have no idea but this thing is a talcum powder dust sieve.

    I just stay on top of fork service and ride it, although Redline suspension fluid gets expensive after a bit...
    Mostly likely just marzocchi sludge. Those forks made a lot of debris internally.

    I see two main types of sediment. Wear metals and grease/oil sludge.
    This one (right) is water in oil: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc8dfAUFdx-/
    This one is intentionally mixed new Supergliss and fork oils: https://www.instagram.com/p/BXyyfEHFz87/
    This one I think was mostly wear particles: https://www.instagram.com/p/BHlERcajstE/
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  82. #82
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    @Dougal

    Most like the bottom one, sediment on the bottom the next day.
    Grey-beige in colour. Like I said felt like honing paste.

    A service after a trip to Snowshoe which has a totally different composition showed the fluid to be nowhere near as cloudy, with about 1/4 the sediment. Still mankier than any other fork, including a 66 Evo Ti I had of the same vintage. The 66 which is pretty much the same thing internally never seemed to have the manky fluid, that is a special feature of the 888. It has done this since new, and there was no change when I put the Andreani piston in as well as a couple of shimstack revisions.

    I am seriously considering an Avy cartridge for this fork. Will be very interested to see how the fluids look after a service.

    So, at the moment, I just open it up several times a season and keep riding.
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  83. #83
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    i have a push acs3 in my fox36 now, im curious to see how this new vorsprung product performs
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by useport80 View Post
    i have a push acs3 in my fox36 now, im curious to see how this new vorsprung product performs
    The Push ACS3 is a nice bit of kit for sure, and fundamentally the two systems are quite similar insofar as being a coil spring with an adjustable anti-bottoming system.

    For the first 2/3(ish) of the travel you won't notice any difference in performance (if running the same spring rate) - a coil is a coil there. The anti-bottoming systems are different - we opted for an externally-adjustable hydraulic system as compared to the ACS3's pneumatic system because it requires no moving seals, no shock pump, and doesn't require components to physically collide mid travel, so we can taper its effect in quite gently. Because it acts as an energy dissipator (like a damper) rather than a secondary spring, the behaviour is a bit different deep in the stroke, with lower spring forces to minimise kickback in particularly holey terrain. (That sounded like some kind of religious euphemism, not intentional!). Basically it gently slows you down in a controlled manner, and doesn't throw a sudden buildup of energy back at you. Because its response is dependent on the energy input, when properly adjusted it lets you use nearly all the travel nearly all the time on big compressions - lower energy (lower velocity) compressions are allowed to use plenty of travel for comfort, but higher energy ones generate the support required.

    On attributes that aren't strictly performance related, the Smashpot is also travel adjustable within the range permissible on your fork (max of 180mm, min of 130mm) without having to purchase any new parts, and can be swapped between forks by swapping out only the top cap (and foot stud if moving between brands). As far as I am aware this is unique for such coil conversion kits - you can pull this kit out of a 140mm 27.5 Pike and throw it in a 160mm Lyrik for just the cost of a new top cap (and possibly a spring if you wanted a different spring rate for the different travel fork). We try to design this kind of thing to give people maximum utility for their money in addition to the performance benefits.
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  85. #85
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    Sounds absolutely fantastic Steve!

  86. #86
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    Have to say this product sounds extremely compelling. I am pretty much sold and ready to pull the trigger once it gets released to breathe some new life and coilness into my Pike. My best performing fork is still my old Vengeance coil HLR. Granted, it's a bit heavy, but runs circles around my 2018 Pike in terms of performance and adjustability. Come on Smashpot...hurry up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    The Push ACS3 is a nice bit of kit for sure, and fundamentally the two systems are quite similar insofar as being a coil spring with an adjustable anti-bottoming system.

    For the first 2/3(ish) of the travel you won't notice any difference in performance (if running the same spring rate) - a coil is a coil there. The anti-bottoming systems are different - we opted for an externally-adjustable hydraulic system as compared to the ACS3's pneumatic system because it requires no moving seals, no shock pump, and doesn't require components to physically collide mid travel, so we can taper its effect in quite gently. Because it acts as an energy dissipator (like a damper) rather than a secondary spring, the behaviour is a bit different deep in the stroke, with lower spring forces to minimise kickback in particularly holey terrain. (That sounded like some kind of religious euphemism, not intentional!). Basically it gently slows you down in a controlled manner, and doesn't throw a sudden buildup of energy back at you. Because its response is dependent on the energy input, when properly adjusted it lets you use nearly all the travel nearly all the time on big compressions - lower energy (lower velocity) compressions are allowed to use plenty of travel for comfort, but higher energy ones generate the support required.

    On attributes that aren't strictly performance related, the Smashpot is also travel adjustable within the range permissible on your fork (max of 180mm, min of 130mm) without having to purchase any new parts, and can be swapped between forks by swapping out only the top cap (and foot stud if moving between brands). As far as I am aware this is unique for such coil conversion kits - you can pull this kit out of a 140mm 27.5 Pike and throw it in a 160mm Lyrik for just the cost of a new top cap (and possibly a spring if you wanted a different spring rate for the different travel fork). We try to design this kind of thing to give people maximum utility for their money in addition to the performance benefits.
    Great!!

    Another vote for a 34 spring!
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    so.....would this potentially allow a '19 fox 36 to be a 130mm travel coil? it seems the travel available these days starts at 150mm stock...
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    so.....would this potentially allow a '19 fox 36 to be a 130mm travel coil? it seems the travel available these days starts at 150mm stock...
    It will be determined by the damper limits.

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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    The Push ACS3 is a nice bit of kit for sure, and fundamentally the two systems are quite similar insofar as being a coil spring with an adjustable anti-bottoming system.

    For the first 2/3(ish) of the travel you won't notice any difference in performance (if running the same spring rate) - a coil is a coil there. The anti-bottoming systems are different - we opted for an externally-adjustable hydraulic system as compared to the ACS3's pneumatic system because it requires no moving seals, no shock pump, and doesn't require components to physically collide mid travel, so we can taper its effect in quite gently. Because it acts as an energy dissipator (like a damper) rather than a secondary spring, the behaviour is a bit different deep in the stroke, with lower spring forces to minimise kickback in particularly holey terrain. (That sounded like some kind of religious euphemism, not intentional!). Basically it gently slows you down in a controlled manner, and doesn't throw a sudden buildup of energy back at you. Because its response is dependent on the energy input, when properly adjusted it lets you use nearly all the travel nearly all the time on big compressions - lower energy (lower velocity) compressions are allowed to use plenty of travel for comfort, but higher energy ones generate the support required.

    On attributes that aren't strictly performance related, the Smashpot is also travel adjustable within the range permissible on your fork (max of 180mm, min of 130mm) without having to purchase any new parts, and can be swapped between forks by swapping out only the top cap (and foot stud if moving between brands). As far as I am aware this is unique for such coil conversion kits - you can pull this kit out of a 140mm 27.5 Pike and throw it in a 160mm Lyrik for just the cost of a new top cap (and possibly a spring if you wanted a different spring rate for the different travel fork). We try to design this kind of thing to give people maximum utility for their money in addition to the performance benefits.
    There should be a like button on Tapatalk for brilliant posts from Steve.

    Super like!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heiril View Post
    There should be a like button on Tapatalk for brilliant posts from Steve.

    Super like!

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    Agreed.
    Can't wait for the smashpot.... itching to get one into my 36.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

  92. #92
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    ty for the detailed reply steve.

    do you know if the smashpot can be installed in the same fork that previously had the push acs3 kit? i'd like to replace the acs3 with the smashpot if possible.
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  93. #93
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    Oi Steve, when are you gonna drop a Vorsprung damper? Seems only fitting in my eyes

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    Great!!

    Another vote for a 34 spring!
    We'd love to make them for the 34 (and the Mattoc) but as it currently stands that isn't plausible as the stanchion ID is small enough that springs would need to become really heavy to fit them. If demand becomes sufficient we'll look at our options however.

    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    so.....would this potentially allow a '19 fox 36 to be a 130mm travel coil? it seems the travel available these days starts at 150mm stock...
    Quote Originally Posted by JTmofo View Post
    It will be determined by the damper limits.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
    JTmofo is basically correct. You can run it at any travel from 130mm up to whatever upper limit is set by your damper and/or fork chassis. If you have a Fox 36 and it's currently running at anything less than 180mm, call Fox's tech support with your 4-digit custom tune ID and/or serial number and they'll be able to tell you what your max travel is and whether the limitation is the damper (they'll be able to tell you what part needs replacing to increase max travel on that if so) or the chassis.

    Quote Originally Posted by useport80 View Post
    ty for the detailed reply steve.

    do you know if the smashpot can be installed in the same fork that previously had the push acs3 kit? i'd like to replace the acs3 with the smashpot if possible.
    Yep, it will be able to fit a fork that's previously had an ACS3 in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Oi Steve, when are you gonna drop a Vorsprung damper? Seems only fitting in my eyes
    That'd be cool, but won't be any time soon.
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    For the first 2/3(ish) of the travel you won't notice any difference in performance (if running the same spring rate) - a coil is a coil there. The anti-bottoming systems are different - we opted for an externally-adjustable hydraulic system as compared to the ACS3's pneumatic system because it requires no moving seals, no shock pump, and doesn't require components to physically collide mid travel
    I can say without a doubt that the hydraulic anti-bottoming cone on my Avy cart has saved my a$$ more than once. I distinctly remember jumping a certain fairly large table top bigger and bigger and taking faster run-ins (from a road above instead of the trail) and then one way I way overshot the landing and landed only on the front wheel pitched forward. In most any other case, I would have banged the bottom and probably had a massive endo, but softly stopping at the end of travel in this situation is amazing, without having to use any crazy internal (air) pressure or seals. A hydraulic setup is the simplest IMO and extremely effective.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Steve - will this be new Zoke Bomber z1 compatible as its basically Fox but with some unique fittings (air spring top cap) etc??

    Thanks

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamper11 View Post
    Steve - will this be new Zoke Bomber z1 compatible as its basically Fox but with some unique fittings (air spring top cap) etc??

    Thanks
    It will be Z1 compatible yes - that config may not be ready at launch as we are yet to check fitment but at worst it will be another top cap for us to make.
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    Put me on that list ! I've ridden some other Coil forks/kits and think this would be killer in my current Z1

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    We'd love to make them for the 34 (and the Mattoc) but as it currently stands that isn't plausible as the stanchion ID is small enough that springs would need to become really heavy to fit them. If demand becomes sufficient we'll look at our options however.
    Another vote for a 34 spring, but "really heavy" does not sound good.

  100. #100
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    I'm really interested in this kit and I'm looking forward to purchasing it when it's available for my fox 36.

    However, I'm afraid that shipping from Canada to France + taxes make it too expensive for me.

    Do you know if there are dealers for Vorsprung products in Europe (enventually in France).

    Best wishes for 2019, lads !

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by evildos View Post
    Do you know if there are dealers for Vorsprung products in Europe (enventually in France).

    Best wishes for 2019, lads !
    Here's a list of some of Vorsprung partners:

    https://www.vorsprungsuspension.com/...tuning-centres
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  102. #102
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    What will the estimated price be?

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    What will the estimated price be?
    Bike Rumour article states circa $300USD

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    So, here is a question from a suspension noob.

    I have the Grip2 36, feels amazing. One thing I was wondering is, the small bump/breakaway force/whatever you call it is really good, I'm guessing due to the negative air spring. I assume installing a coil conversion will remove this negative air spring, if so, how will the coil conversion have less breakaway force? I know there are less seals/friction in the coil conversion, but feeling my fork as it is now, I can't see how it could really get much better.
    I had a MRP Ribbon Coil before the 36, and whilst I can't directly compare them as I sold the Ribbon, I dont remember the Ribbon being easier to get the fork moving.

    So I spose my question is, will the Smashpot Conversion have less breakaway force then the current 36 running the standard air spring?

    Thanks,
    Ben from Australia

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    So, here is a question from a suspension noob.

    I have the Grip2 36, feels amazing. One thing I was wondering is, the small bump/breakaway force/whatever you call it is really good, I'm guessing due to the negative air spring. I assume installing a coil conversion will remove this negative air spring, if so, how will the coil conversion have less breakaway force? I know there are less seals/friction in the coil conversion, but feeling my fork as it is now, I can't see how it could really get much better.
    I had a MRP Ribbon Coil before the 36, and whilst I can't directly compare them as I sold the Ribbon, I dont remember the Ribbon being easier to get the fork moving.

    So I spose my question is, will the Smashpot Conversion have less breakaway force then the current 36 running the standard air spring?

    Thanks,
    Ben from Australia
    With a coil there isn't any breakaway/air spring stiction. A air fork can feel good for a bit. But soon the grease gets worn or moved, or the temperatures drop and stiction increases. Coils stay consistent.

  106. #106
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    But there is still stiction caused from the dust wipers yeah? It feels like they've got the 36 negative air spring to the point that leaves little to be desired/improved on in terms of breakaway force. Of course, as you rightly pointed out, temperature and consistent feel between service intervals might be a different story.
    Anyway, super keen to give it a go

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    But there is still stiction caused from the dust wipers yeah? It feels like they've got the 36 negative air spring to the point that leaves little to be desired/improved on in terms of breakaway force. Of course, as you rightly pointed out, temperature and consistent feel between service intervals might be a different story.
    Anyway, super keen to give it a go
    Fair point. But a dust seal and wiper don't need to be air tight. Even with a negative air spring (which is there primarily for off the top stiction), there is still going to be degree of friction between the air spring seal head and the inner of the stanchion to keep it air tight.


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  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    With a coil there isn't any breakaway/air spring stiction. A air fork can feel good for a bit. But soon the grease gets worn or moved, or the temperatures drop and stiction increases. Coils stay consistent.
    unless of course you have an Avalanche cartridge, but then you already know that
    breezy shade

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    how will the coil conversion have less breakaway force? I know there are less seals/friction in the coil conversion, but feeling my fork as it is now, I can't see how it could really get much better.
    I can see why you'd have this impression. I had my suspension serviced before the season started last year (lowers and oil on the fork, air sleeve on the shock) and it came back so nice I thought it was as good as my bike that has coil springs front and rear.

    Until I got back on the coil bike, at which point I realized how wrong I was.

    We get used to our suspension over time and don't realize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    will the Smashpot Conversion have less breakaway force then the current 36 running the standard air spring?
    Yes, it will.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    unless of course you have an Avalanche cartridge
    The Avalanche cartridge is on the damper side and not the spring. Hence why they note (scroll down in that link) that it's compatible with both the Smashpot and the PUSH ACS-3.

    Unless, maybe, you're talking about their dual coil conversion kit which is also featured on that page.
    Last edited by tbmaddux; 01-07-2019 at 02:19 PM.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    unless of course you have an Avalanche cartridge, but then you already know that
    I love my Avy cartridge. I put in the Push coil and its one of the best forks Ive ridden. But if the Smashpot Is around 300 ill probably get it. Since its 300 hundred to change travel and i prefer the lack of rebound from hydraulic bottom out.

    When it was set up with air it was great for a month, then declined. But it was never coil great

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    Vorsprung, I'm ready to give you my money. I'll take one 180mm kit for my Fox 36.

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    Interesting to see coil's making a come back like this. What is old is new again.

    Like already mentioned a tuned Bomber was the shnizzle! Tune the oil and the spring weight and talk about 120mm of goodness!

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    But there is still stiction caused from the dust wipers yeah? It feels like they've got the 36 negative air spring to the point that leaves little to be desired/improved on in terms of breakaway force. Of course, as you rightly pointed out, temperature and consistent feel between service intervals might be a different story.
    Anyway, super keen to give it a go
    All forks have friction from the dust wipers, you are correct, and damper seals too (unless you have an open bath damper). Coil springs eliminate two sliding seals though (out of 5-6 in most forks - two dust wipers, two air spring seals and one damper shaft seal) which just means one less thing to get sticky over time. Brand new or freshly serviced, you're right, the difference in stiction between an air and a coil fork is pretty minimal, but coils stay feeling that way longer, plus have lower initial and higher mid stroke spring rates. There are obviously tradeoffs in terms of weight, adjustability, potential for noise (since there needs to be clearance between a coil and anything it's moving relative to) and in the case of aftermarket kits like this also cost, but if outright performance and reduced maintenance are your goals then coil with bottoming protection is currently the best option.
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  114. #114
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    Thanks the reply
    Makes sense, just feeling my (admittedly) box fresh Grip2 36 I was curious how a coil could possibly get any more supple doing the old push on the bars test. I had run a Ribbon coil before and I don’t remember it being night and day different.

    No doubt with unforeseen delays it’s hard to give an ETA, but.......have you got an ETA? Haha

    Ben from Australia

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post

    No doubt with unforeseen delays it’s hard to give an ETA, but.......have you got an ETA? Haha

    Ben from Australia
    This ^^^

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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    Thanks the reply
    Makes sense, just feeling my (admittedly) box fresh Grip2 36 I was curious how a coil could possibly get any more supple doing the old push on the bars test. I had run a Ribbon coil before and I don’t remember it being night and day different.
    Let your Bike stand still for 24h and then try to push down on the bars. The first push will be very sticky. After one cycle it gets better, but the very first one is always needing a lot of force to get the fork moving. I have a brand new '19 36 Float GRIP2 and an '11 36 Vanilla with '15 RC2 cart. The Van never does this.
    Also as Steve pointed out the performance of the air spring deteriorates pretty fast. If you ride a lot and in wet or very dusty conditions it's noticeable between two rides.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Rabbit View Post
    No doubt with unforeseen delays it’s hard to give an ETA, but.......have you got an ETA? Haha

    Ben from Australia
    We do have an ETA. We'll share it on the day they're ready to go
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  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    We do have an ETA. We'll share it on the day they're ready to go
    Will it be soon

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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTmofo View Post
    Will it be soon

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
    The more time I spend answering questions about ETA the longer it takes us to finish assembling and checking them
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    The more time I spend answering questions about ETA the longer it takes us to finish assembling and checking them
    A simple "Yes" would have kept me happy

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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTmofo View Post
    A simple "Yes" would have kept me happy

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
    Honest answer - we're waiting on springs to arrive from our supplier. Once they do, they need checking - if they're good, we're good. If there's some issue, there may be a further delay. So I can't promise you anything - could be soon, could be a month or more.
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  122. #122
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    Is there an estimated date when the Smashpot could be ordered?

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan0103 View Post
    Is there an estimated date when the Smashpot could be ordered?
    Not sure if serious?

  124. #124
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    Ups, I scrolled to quick up ... . Sounds good.

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan0103 View Post
    Is there an estimated date when the Smashpot could be ordered?
    Yep. Today

    https://vorsprungsuspension.com/coll...version-system
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  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    I'm ordering now!!!!

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  127. #127
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    Ordered!!! I've been checking the website daily for updates!!!!

    Super stoked to try this out!

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  128. #128
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    Ordered for my '15 Pike!

  129. #129
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    Steve

    What will the price and availability be for individual springs?
    Hatched in '64
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  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Steve

    What will the price and availability be for individual springs?
    https://vorsprung-suspension.myshopi...ashpot-springs

  131. #131
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    How the F did I miss those. I thought I crawled around the entire site.

    Cheers!!
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  132. #132
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    ordered! Can’t wait to get this installed

  133. #133
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    Steve, nice job! Presumably this will play nice with 29 150 rhythm fork?
    Ta

  134. #134
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    this seems great! Steve could you explain what aspect does the adjustment in the bottom out cartridge adjust? It wasnt visible in the pinkbike pics

  135. #135
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    I'm looking for a coil conversion for my Lyrik 29er with 180mm travel.

    I read this in your FAQ section:

    Typical fork maximum permissible travels:

    Rockshox:
    Lyrik/Yari 27.5" - 180mm
    Lyrik/Yari 29" - 170mm
    Pike/Revelation 27.5/29" - 160mm

    And this in the description for smashpot:


    • 130-180mm travel, internally adjustable using included spacers. (Note - max permissible travel for your fork is determined by the fork manufacturer and may be less than 180mm)


    Is this a typo? At least RS allows and sells a 180mm 29er Lyrik.

  136. #136
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    420.69 for the conversion, and not a penny more!

    LoL, nice work Vorsprung.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_futurist View Post
    this seems great! Steve could you explain what aspect does the adjustment in the bottom out cartridge adjust? It wasnt visible in the pinkbike pics
    It´s hydraulic bottom out control.

  138. #138
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    I’m assuming that you would want to upgrade the damper on the Yari fork before adding the smashpot right?

  139. #139
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    Steve, how do I get a hold of one of these in the UK?

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    Hi Steve:

    I´m excited about your new product, the Smashpot. I´ve tried the Luftkape in the past in a RS pike and it´s awesome.

    Now my question: I have a Cane Creek HELM air 27,5 at 170mm. I love this fork but i think it could be even better and maybe Smashpot is the answer. I´m wondering about the compatibility of this fork with your new kit... the top cap thread is the same of the RS Pike non boost (2015) and the stanchion is the same at 35mm, so why not... At least worth to ask if it may be possible, or perhaps you are working on it... and when to spect to be available.

    Thanks in advance

  141. #141
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    The Smashpot looks great, so does the price! Very nice Vorsprung.

    You guys gonna make it MRP Ribbon compatible?

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by inaxganja View Post
    I have a Cane Creek HELM
    Steve addressed that on the first page with this reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    Possible - again dependent on demand.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    It´s hydraulic bottom out control.
    I think it had some kind of adjustment range and I was asking what does it adjust. Gate? Compression?

  144. #144
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    Congrats, Vorsprung !

    Good luck to answer all the questions

    Hope you guys will make an installation video.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan1 View Post
    Steve, how do I get a hold of one of these in the UK?
    tf tuned £250

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_futurist View Post
    I think it had some kind of adjustment range and I was asking what does it adjust. Gate? Compression?
    On their website they describe it as an externally-adjustable, speed-sensitive, anti-bottoming hydraulic control valve that covers the last 50mm of travel.

    Right off the bat, note that this would be on the spring side, independent of the damper side. So you can adjust the anti-bottoming independently of HSC/LSC and HSR/LSR.

    So, it's kind of an extra compression-only dampener, that does not affect rebound damping, in the last 50mm of travel only.

    Until Steve does a detailed Tuesday Tune where he shows the inner workings of that valve (which I'm guessing looks something like a spring-washer and shim stack kind of thing, can't quite make it out in the photos on the first page but there's something in the white part of the setup underneath the coil), you might have to look up the MX-Tech Huck Valve on the moto side to see how they approached it.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by louf View Post
    tf tuned £250
    Any idea when they are getting them?
    .

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan1 View Post
    Any idea when they are getting them?
    .
    few weeks

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    Quote Originally Posted by louf View Post
    few weeks
    Cheers.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan0103 View Post
    I'm looking for a coil conversion for my Lyrik 29er with 180mm travel.

    I read this in your FAQ section:

    Typical fork maximum permissible travels:

    Rockshox:
    Lyrik/Yari 27.5" - 180mm
    Lyrik/Yari 29" - 170mm
    Pike/Revelation 27.5/29" - 160mm

    And this in the description for smashpot:


    • 130-180mm travel, internally adjustable using included spacers. (Note - max permissible travel for your fork is determined by the fork manufacturer and may be less than 180mm)


    Is this a typo? At least RS allows and sells a 180mm 29er Lyrik.
    You are correct, the Lyrik can be run at 180mm. Have updated the site to reflect that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shredur View Post
    I’m assuming that you would want to upgrade the damper on the Yari fork before adding the smashpot right?
    You'll notice a bigger change from the spring than the damper on that fork for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by inaxganja View Post
    Hi Steve:

    I´m excited about your new product, the Smashpot. I´ve tried the Luftkape in the past in a RS pike and it´s awesome.

    Now my question: I have a Cane Creek HELM air 27,5 at 170mm. I love this fork but i think it could be even better and maybe Smashpot is the answer. I´m wondering about the compatibility of this fork with your new kit... the top cap thread is the same of the RS Pike non boost (2015) and the stanchion is the same at 35mm, so why not... At least worth to ask if it may be possible, or perhaps you are working on it... and when to spect to be available.

    Thanks in advance
    We'll look at making Helm kits if the demand is there, however as it currently stands none of the kits will simply drop right in there right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    The Smashpot looks great, so does the price! Very nice Vorsprung.

    You guys gonna make it MRP Ribbon compatible?
    If the demand is there we'll look at it for sure - let us know if you're keen on one.

    Quote Originally Posted by bike_futurist View Post
    I think it had some kind of adjustment range and I was asking what does it adjust. Gate? Compression?
    Adjusts an orifice in parallel to a shim stack.

    Quote Originally Posted by tbmaddux View Post
    On their website they describe it as an externally-adjustable, speed-sensitive, anti-bottoming hydraulic control valve that covers the last 50mm of travel.

    Right off the bat, note that this would be on the spring side, independent of the damper side. So you can adjust the anti-bottoming independently of HSC/LSC and HSR/LSR.

    So, it's kind of an extra compression-only dampener, that does not affect rebound damping, in the last 50mm of travel only.

    Until Steve does a detailed Tuesday Tune where he shows the inner workings of that valve (which I'm guessing looks something like a spring-washer and shim stack kind of thing, can't quite make it out in the photos on the first page but there's something in the white part of the setup underneath the coil), you might have to look up the MX-Tech Huck Valve on the moto side to see how they approached it.
    10/10. Need a job?

    Quote Originally Posted by alan1 View Post
    Any idea when they are getting them?
    .
    They're en route as we speak.
    VorsprungSuspension.com - fully engineered suspension retuning & servicing in Whistler, BC.
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    im curious to see a head to head comparison with the push acs3 kit. and also interested in how to install the smashpot
    2017 yeti sb6c turq x01 eagle

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    This looks awesome! Glad it gets the full 180mm unlike some of the other conversions out there (I am running a 180mm Lyrik).

    Quick question that I didn't see on the description - on your recommend spring rate vs. weight matrices, is there an equivalent sag range that your recommendations correspond to? I.e. 176lb, 180mm travel, "Medium" ~ 22% sag? Trying to understand apples to apples based on current sag % with the air spring in my fork.

    Second question - Will springs be available for purchase and at what $?

    Great job guys.. looking forward to trying it out!

  153. #153
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    22% of 180 mm equals 39.6 mm/1.56 in.
    Now comes the non scientific part, estimating the weight distribution between front and rear. Let's say it's 40/60. 40% of your 176 lb results in 70 lb.
    70 lb / 1.56 in = 45 lb/in.

    If you happen to have access to two body scales you could find out your static weight distribution.


    Adjust as you think.

  154. #154
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    What bath oil is used for the Fox 36? Surely the Fox 40 gold is too thick.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    What bath oil is used for the Fox 36? Surely the Fox 40 gold is too thick.
    40cc 5wt. FOX Teflon Infused Oil 025-03-023 in the right damper leg
    10cc FOX 20wt. Gold Oil in the left spring leg

    Can be found here under Oil Information.

  156. #156
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    Thanks for the info Dr.Flow but my understanding is that the Smashpot works with a hydraulic bottom out (using the bath oil) and I'm wondering if the Fox 20wt gold is to thick for this application.
    My specific 36 is model year 2018 RC2

  157. #157
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    so, I have a 2018 rockshox revelation (35mm). I am ordering a smashpot with 65lb spring.
    Damper in these forks is terrible. Thinking of at the same time upgrade to a crconception open bath damper as well.

    Anyone see an issue with this pairing? Should make some pretty epic forks

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    Now I got ya. Sorry, we will have to wait for Steve. I need that information as well, my Smashpot is on route.

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    You can find all the installation instructions on the Vorsprung website, including oil weights and volumes:

    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...17412224944409

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Flow View Post
    22% of 180 mm equals 39.6 mm/1.56 in.
    Now comes the non scientific part, estimating the weight distribution between front and rear. Let's say it's 40/60. 40% of your 176 lb results in 70 lb.
    70 lb / 1.56 in = 45 lb/in.

    If you happen to have access to two body scales you could find out your static weight distribution.


    Adjust as you think.
    Don't forget head angle. Forks work at a motion ratio greater than 1.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Don't forget head angle. Forks work at a motion ratio greater than 1.
    Now it gets complicated. And that's why there is a recommendation spreadsheet ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    You can find all the installation instructions on the Vorsprung website, including oil weights and volumes:

    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...17412224944409
    Nice, thx. Missed that one.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmonty View Post
    This looks awesome! Glad it gets the full 180mm unlike some of the other conversions out there (I am running a 180mm Lyrik).

    Quick question that I didn't see on the description - on your recommend spring rate vs. weight matrices, is there an equivalent sag range that your recommendations correspond to? I.e. 176lb, 180mm travel, "Medium" ~ 22% sag? Trying to understand apples to apples based on current sag % with the air spring in my fork.

    Second question - Will springs be available for purchase and at what $?

    Great job guys.. looking forward to trying it out!
    Firm/medium/soft recommendations work out at about 17%, 19% and 21% respectively. Don't put too much stock in fork sag though (and especially not if comparing air to coil), it's hard to measure consistently at the best of times.

    Springs are $80CAD (roughly $60USD), available here - https://vorsprungsuspension.com/coll...ashpot-springs
    VorsprungSuspension.com - fully engineered suspension retuning & servicing in Whistler, BC.
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    Anyone? I want to ensure this is ok before ordering both. I suspect damper and smashpot will work as they also make a coil conversion bit much prefer the smashpot

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    Quote Originally Posted by endorium View Post
    Anyone? I want to ensure this is ok before ordering both. I suspect damper and smashpot will work as they also make a coil conversion bit much prefer the smashpot
    Smashpot was only released a couple of days ago. I doubt the first shipment has even reached the end user.
    Chances of anyone having installed it yet is minimal.

    That said, I can see any issues if Vorsprung lists the revelation as a compatible fork.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

  166. #166
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    It's more of it would be fine with an open bath damper I am also upgrading too. The crconception one but it's near identical to the avalanche open damper

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by endorium View Post
    It's more of it would be fine with an open bath damper I am also upgrading too. The crconception one but it's near identical to the avalanche open damper
    Different fork leg. Totally independent. Can't see why not.

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  168. #168
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    Vorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion

    Sending out my 150mm FOX36 Elite FIT4 to Vorsrpung today for the Fractive tune, re-valve and Smashpot install. Im stoked to finally have a clyde built / tuned fork for my SC Hightower. Let the waiting begin.
    Last edited by M320; 02-01-2019 at 09:16 AM.

  169. #169
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    What is the process for switching out the spacers and changing travel? Is it simply just pulling out the spring and changing the spacers and putting it back in? Or is it more involved and requiring replacing oil etc?

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomor View Post
    What is the process for switching out the spacers and changing travel? Is it simply just pulling out the spring and changing the spacers and putting it back in? Or is it more involved and requiring replacing oil etc?
    The spacers make up an integral part of the assembly. The complete assembly will have to be removed and partially disassembled to change the travel spacers.
    For the sake of 110ml of fresh oil, I'd be changing it while I'm at it.

    It would be harder to try and keep the existing oil in the fork leg with no foot nut than drain and replace.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    Firm/medium/soft recommendations work out at about 17%, 19% and 21% respectively. Don't put too much stock in fork sag though (and especially not if comparing air to coil), it's hard to measure consistently at the best of times.

    Springs are $80CAD (roughly $60USD), available here - https://vorsprungsuspension.com/coll...ashpot-springs
    so 21,19,17% means quicker end of the race results kinda guys rather than the mid pack weekend warriors?
    I ask as im 80 kg looking to fit your spring to a 150 stumpy evo that I might push out to get 160 and I kind like the middle ground setting so either 50 or a 55?

    also is marine grease usable as a replacement for slick honey?

    ta

  172. #172
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    Stevo, would you reccomend WPL oils for you smashpot ?

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by louf View Post
    so 21,19,17% means quicker end of the race results kinda guys rather than the mid pack weekend warriors?
    I ask as im 80 kg looking to fit your spring to a 150 stumpy evo that I might push out to get 160 and I kind like the middle ground setting so either 50 or a 55?

    also is marine grease usable as a replacement for slick honey?

    ta
    It depends on the way you measure sag so hard to say, but if measured in "attack" position it´s on the more aggressive side of things for sure, I prefer something closer to 25%, below 20 is usually very harsh for me. And marine grease is very thick compared to something suspension specific so it will slow thing down, also most manufacturers don´t mention if it´s rubber safe so it´s probably not.

  174. #174
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    Yeah I measures mine in attack position too, less than 25% gets dog rough too..

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by louf View Post
    Yeah I measures mine in attack position too, less than 25% gets dog rough too..
    It depends on bike too as Steve mentioned elsewhere, slacker the head angle-less accurate reading you get so it´s not an ideal way of choosing spring rate.

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    It depends on bike too as Steve mentioned elsewhere, slacker the head angle-less accurate reading you get so it´s not an ideal way of choosing spring rate.
    Yup. But is a handy starting point. Don't actually know what my sag is to tell the truth.. By it is 90 psi.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by louf View Post
    Yup. But is a handy starting point. Don't actually know what my sag is to tell the truth.. By it is 90 psi.
    Which means absolutely nothing to anyone but you, with your set up and on your bike.

    Body weight, riding style, frame Geo, fork type, damper valveing, air volume etc etc all contribute to personal air pressures and sag preferences.

    Chances are, 1 spring will not be enough to get it dialled to your own sag preference. The chart is a rough guide and a good starting point.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by endorium View Post
    It's more of it would be fine with an open bath damper I am also upgrading too. The crconception one but it's near identical to the avalanche open damper
    Yep, it'll be fine with any damper really, open bath or closed cart - sorry I missed that before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomor View Post
    What is the process for switching out the spacers and changing travel? Is it simply just pulling out the spring and changing the spacers and putting it back in? Or is it more involved and requiring replacing oil etc?
    You'll need to pull the cartridge out entirely and partly disassemble - add/subtract main spring spacers and respectively subtract/add topout spacers. You'll also want to reapply the heat shrink on the cartridge tube when you do it because you'll need to cut it to remove the sealhead - we sell spare lengths of the heat shrink on the web store for anyone who wants to throw it in with their order, but for anyone curious or wanting to buy from their local auto/electrical supplier (eg Lordco) it's 3/4" 2:1 singlewall polyolefin heat shrink.

    Quote Originally Posted by karpiel View Post
    Stevo, would you reccomend WPL oils for you smashpot ?
    If you have it available yes. We've used WPL ShockBoost 20wt, Fox 20wt Gold and Rockshox 0W30 with success in there. For cold weather riding you might want to substitute for a 10wt like ShockBoost or Fox 10wt Green. Partly because of the damping aspect, partly because the thicker oils get pretty damn thick when it's cold.

    Quote Originally Posted by louf View Post
    so 21,19,17% means quicker end of the race results kinda guys rather than the mid pack weekend warriors?
    I ask as im 80 kg looking to fit your spring to a 150 stumpy evo that I might push out to get 160 and I kind like the middle ground setting so either 50 or a 55?

    also is marine grease usable as a replacement for slick honey?

    ta
    Spring rate preference is a personal thing and not necessarily entirely determined by how good or fast a rider you are. If you want your fork to feel stiffer because you want the support (which does often correlate with riding harder) then by all means go for the stiffer rate. In reality most people will be able to ride 2 or 3 different spring rates quite happily, and while we try to provide the best possible advice on what's most likely to work for you, ultimately only your own experience on the trail will tell you what you like the most.

    Don't use marine grease anywhere inside suspension components please - Slick Honey/Slickoleum/SRAM Butter are all basically the same thing, so use any of those instead.
    VorsprungSuspension.com - fully engineered suspension retuning & servicing in Whistler, BC.
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  179. #179
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    Fyi Fullflow Suspension, Auburn ,CA should have kits available on Wed. Give Michael a call.

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  180. #180
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    Steve, what would your personal choice be for oil?

  181. #181
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    Got it

  182. #182
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    Steve, cheeky I know but are you handing
    out any discount codes for the first orders?

  183. #183
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    Not sure I'd use the word 'cheeky'. These guys work hard to test and deliver great products with availability out of the gate, cheaper than the competition, while going out of their way to answer our questions on this forum. And you ask for a discount? Give your head a shake

  184. #184
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    doesn't fit 26 pikes

  185. #185
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    Is the new Smashpot compatible with the Fox/Marzocchi Bomber Z1? Thanks

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    I just bought one for my 170mm Fox 36. Any thoughts on adjusting HSC/LSC/Rebound Damper settings when switching from an air spring to a coil spring?

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by noot View Post
    Not sure I'd use the word 'cheeky'. These guys work hard to test and deliver great products with availability out of the gate, cheaper than the competition, while going out of their way to answer our questions on this forum. And you ask for a discount? Give your head a shake
    A little over protective don't ya think lol

    If I have insulted your preciousness I apologise. Push did the same think when they introduced the coil front and the new 11.6 for the Nomad and it's a very common marketing ploy to assist getting a new product out there by giving a token discount.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    A little over protective don't ya think lol

    If I have insulted your preciousness I apologise. Push did the same think when they introduced the coil front and the new 11.6 for the Nomad and it's a very common marketing ploy to assist getting a new product out there by giving a token discount.
    Price difference between Push and Vorsprung is already there without any discount, it´s not a small amount of money by any means, but compared to push you get uite a lot more for less.

  189. #189
    the air is thin up here..
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    A little over protective don't ya think lol

    If I have insulted your preciousness I apologise. Push did the same think when they introduced the coil front and the new 11.6 for the Nomad and it's a very common marketing ploy to assist getting a new product out there by giving a token discount.
    If you've read the thread you'd see that several people were anxiously waiting to buy, and immediately pulled the trigger for full price when it became available. I don't think they 'need help getting it out there'.

    You haven't insulted me, I just think your post shows a lack of respect. Tho I'm guessing you already know this, since you used an alt account to post the question in the first place... Nice
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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by noot View Post
    If you've read the thread you'd see that several people were anxiously waiting to buy, and immediately pulled the trigger for full price when it became available. I don't think they 'need help getting it out there'.

    You haven't insulted me, I just think your post shows a lack of respect. Tho I'm guessing you already know this, since you used an alt account to post the question in the first place... Nice
    Lack of respect?? Alt account??...you should PM me regarding these accusations..

    I am one of many people who have a collection of Vorsprung products and believe in what Steve is doing with his engineering solutions to suspension problems enabling us to have more fun.

    FYI I've already bought the smashpot (one of those people anxiously waiting etc) but it sure as shit doesn't stop me asking for a discount in case I want to buy another. If a code is presented you make sure not to use it.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty2019 View Post
    Steve, cheeky I know but are you handing
    out any discount codes for the first orders?

    Join Date 01-26-2019
    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    ... If I have insulted your preciousness I apologise...
    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    Alt account??
    Hmmm

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    Steve, what would your personal choice be for oil?
    For most temperatures: WPL ShockBoost 20wt, Fox 20wt Gold, Rockshox 0W-30 have all been tested with good results.

    For colder temperatures, thinner oils (5-10wt depending on temperature) can be beneficial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty2019 View Post
    Steve, cheeky I know but are you handing
    out any discount codes for the first orders?
    Not at the moment, sorry. We are running a giveaway promo over on our Instagram account though...

    Quote Originally Posted by k-addicted View Post
    I just bought one for my 170mm Fox 36. Any thoughts on adjusting HSC/LSC/Rebound Damper settings when switching from an air spring to a coil spring?
    Start with them in the same spot if you're happy with your current setup - you may want a little more LSC simply because the friction from the air spring is gone.
    VorsprungSuspension.com - fully engineered suspension retuning & servicing in Whistler, BC.
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  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by noot View Post
    Hmmm
    Well there you go. Turns out my son created an account on my computer on the forum and I posted with his log on a few times. Honest mistake. Sorry about that.

    Have you bought your smashpot yet??

  194. #194
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    Np, sorry for being a dick.

    I have! It's waiting for me at the LBS! Of course it's also -30C here with a fresh foot of snow... *sigh*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    Start with them in the same spot if you're happy with your current setup - you may want a little more LSC simply because the friction from the air spring is gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noot View Post
    Np, sorry for being a dick.

    I have! It's waiting for me at the LBS! Of course it's also -30C here with a fresh foot of snow... *sigh*
    Looks like us in the southern hemisphere will be rippin the new Smashpot first!

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by noot View Post
    Np, sorry for being a dick.

    I have! It's waiting for me at the LBS! Of course it's also -30C here with a fresh foot of snow... *sigh*

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    I just placed an order for a Red Lyrik RC2. Does it come with the Same Fox Orange Vorsprung decals or are the decals a different volor if you have a RS product??

  199. #199
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    86
    Stoke level is through the roof!!!!!

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

  200. #200
    26 for life.
    Reputation: KiwiJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    537
    After putting a CC coil on the back of my Spitfire, I really want a coil fork now.
    Already running a Luftkappe in the Pike, but I think a coil would be better.
    So, upgrade to a Smash Pot or sell the Pike & get a Helm coil...
    Sent from the future to destroy the past.

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