Vorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion - Page 4- Mtbr.com
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  1. #601
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    Hi first post on here. I have lots off suspension experience from motocross and always have stuck with fox on my mtb bikes. I have the YT Capra pro race carbon and 2018 spec fox 36 and x2 on rear, which I had on a Carbon giant reign which was very good but not as good as the YT. The damping always was good but wanted to try coil so ordered a smashpot with 55lb spring and a fox x2dh shock with 500lb spring and straight away was impressed but wasn't using full travel as 180mm spec both ends. So ordered 470lb spring and 50lb front and set camera to video suspension travel and now rear using all 85% off the time and great feel but only using 170mm on front. Now the air bottom wouldn't allow full travel as the rubber bump stop would limit but as this is now gone its still not using full travel as I ride a course in a forest that is set to bottom out once a circuit, and even with all damping wound out as this is a RC2 fit4 2018 fox 36mm it still would bottom out and on camera it shows this so its not spring bind as Steve has said it would have to be over 200mm. I would never go back to air as in motocross they went this way and KTM are still there but for how long as the best std forks are the SSS Yamaha forks and have been for years. The weight doesn't bother me as fork feel and feed back has always been important, I might try the the new RC2 Grip2 setup but still fiddling with what I have now and have great feel on long berms where I found the air 36 lacked, ok good hold up but no feel.

  2. #602
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    Yeah, I will. Did it with 160mm travel set up, and it was 153mm travel. I will be surprised if it is not 10mm more, when I have added main spacer with 10mm, and taken out 10mm top out spacer, from the Smashpot kit???

    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Take coil out, bottom fork, put it back, lift front wheel measure distance seal-oring. Share with us

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumblefish2010 View Post
    Yeah, I will. Did it with 160mm travel set up, and it was 153mm travel. I will be surprised if it is not 10mm more, when I have added main spacer with 10mm, and taken out 10mm top out spacer, from the Smashpot kit???
    Yes just back from forest and 170mm off travel used not 180mm.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    If you are cool with postage to Australia Iíll take it.
    I can look into it but I think your $ outlay for shipping is going to be prohibitive. PM me if want me to check.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  5. #605
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    Is it normal to hear a top out noise when lifting the wheel off the ground ? My rebound is about 5 clicks from fully open. I can eleminate the top out noise by adding more rebound damping but I don't want to ride it that way. Any help ?

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlo489 View Post
    Is it normal to hear a top out noise when lifting the wheel off the ground ? My rebound is about 5 clicks from fully open. I can eleminate the top out noise by adding more rebound damping but I don't want to ride it that way. Any help ?
    There will be a oil lock or a rubber top out bumper it depends what fork you have, you need more info because the 2018Fox 36 has a top out noise so there is a modified top out rubber.

  7. #607
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    It's a 2019 lyrik rc2, 180mm

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlo489 View Post
    It's a 2019 lyrik rc2, 180mm
    Well, done a search and your forks are prone to top out noise so might need a service. Its one off the reasons I stick with Fox suspension as they have been in suspension since the 70s and if a bike I by has some other make off suspension I sell on and put on my Fox kit which I service and keep spares myself.

  9. #609
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    Anyone tried a lower viscosity oil in their smashpot yet? I am aware the HBO can be shimmed, but thought this may be a quicker/easier fix.

    It's almost no linear enough for me with a 55lb spring, and I fear going 50lb will result in a stinkbug geo setup. My HBO is completely open.

    On a trail ride I'd be lucky to use 140mm of my 170, and this isn't a leisurely ride by any means. When I head to the Downhill tracks or bike park might use another 10-15mm more which is OK.

    It seems like there is a harshness when the HBO engages, and perhaps the lighter oil may remedy this.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    Anyone tried a lower viscosity oil in their smashpot yet? I am aware the HBO can be shimmed, but thought this may be a quicker/easier fix.

    It's almost no linear enough for me with a 55lb spring, and I fear going 50lb will result in a stinkbug geo setup. My HBO is completely open.

    On a trail ride I'd be lucky to use 140mm of my 170, and this isn't a leisurely ride by any means. When I head to the Downhill tracks or bike park might use another 10-15mm more which is OK.

    It seems like there is a harshness when the HBO engages, and perhaps the lighter oil may remedy this.
    If you're only using around 140mm of 170mm available travel, you do need a softer spring. The difference in spring rate between a 55 and a 50 isn't that drastic, it's 10% or so, it'll change your sag from say 20% to 22% - not big numbers. Keep in mind that it takes more than 20mm from the beginning of its engagement (50mm or so from bottom out) until the HBO is developing full force, so it will be having VERY little effect on travel use in your case. Light oil or revalving won't help with where you currently stand, that is for sure a spring rate concern.
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  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlo489 View Post
    Is it normal to hear a top out noise when lifting the wheel off the ground ? My rebound is about 5 clicks from fully open. I can eleminate the top out noise by adding more rebound damping but I don't want to ride it that way. Any help ?
    Check that your preload is appropriate. If there's free play (completely un-sprung free movement) at the top of the travel, it's due to insufficient preload, but if it's coming back with a noticeable clunk, too much may be the issue. If you have one of the first batch of kits sold (before approx end of February 2019) you may need the updated topout spacer. If so, shoot me an email, steve at vorpsrung suspension dot com.
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  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    Nikon255, that's exactly how I came up with my useable travel.
    I have the Smashpot set at 180mm but only getting approximately 174mm actual travel.
    If I pull down on the lowers I can extend it to the 180mm. Like Rumblefish said, the top out spring must be the culprit.

    Maybe Steve will chime in.
    From emailing with Ole (Rumblefish) I'm still a little unclear on exactly what the issue is in his case, but he is running aftermarket seals which protrude quite a bit further up from the lowers than the stock SKF ones. If you're in the same boat, that might be the issue. You should have (with SKF seals) nominal fork travel plus approx 3-8mm exposed stanchion (measured to crown, not o-ring) on a Fox fork, and nominal travel plus approx 1-5mm exposed stanchion on a Rockshox fork. The Smashpots are designed to reach soft topout at the beginning of the topout spring's engagement, ie pulling down should extend the fork beyond the nominal travel, not TO the nominal travel.
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  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    Nikon255, that's exactly how I came up with my useable travel.
    I have the Smashpot set at 180mm but only getting approximately 174mm actual travel.
    If I pull down on the lowers I can extend it to the 180mm. Like Rumblefish said, the top out spring must be the culprit.

    Maybe Steve will chime in.
    From emailing with Ole (Rumblefish) I'm still a little unclear on exactly what the issue is in his case, but he is running aftermarket seals which protrude quite a bit further up from the lowers than the stock SKF ones. If you're in the same boat, that might be the issue. You should have (with SKF seals) nominal fork travel plus approx 3-8mm exposed stanchion (measured to crown, not o-ring) on a Fox fork, and nominal travel plus approx 1-5mm exposed stanchion on a Rockshox fork. The Smashpots are designed to reach soft topout at the beginning of the topout spring's engagement, ie pulling down should extend the fork beyond the nominal travel, not TO the nominal travel.

    The reason I suggest using exposed stanchion rather than the o-ring is because getting the o-ring all the way to full travel requires full compression of the ~6mm thick bottom out bumper.
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  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    From emailing with Ole (Rumblefish) I'm still a little unclear on exactly what the issue is in his case, but he is running aftermarket seals which protrude quite a bit further up from the lowers than the stock SKF ones. If you're in the same boat, that might be the issue. You should have (with SKF seals) nominal fork travel plus approx 3-8mm exposed stanchion (measured to crown, not o-ring) on a Fox fork, and nominal travel plus approx 1-5mm exposed stanchion on a Rockshox fork. The Smashpots are designed to reach soft topout at the beginning of the topout spring's engagement, ie pulling down should extend the fork beyond the nominal travel, not TO the nominal travel.

    The reason I suggest using exposed stanchion rather than the o-ring is because getting the o-ring all the way to full travel requires full compression of the ~6mm thick bottom out bumper.
    So the way I came up with the usable travel was by removing the spring and forcefully compressed the fork to a hard bottom out. It audibly made a clank noise, almost metal to metal sound.
    Then I put the spring back in and measured from the top of the stock seal to the o-ring and came up with 174mm.
    I even found a sizable drop and purposely landed nose heavy and bottomed out the fork and came up with the same measurement.
    If I pull down on the lowers I can get the 180mm.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    If you're only using around 140mm of 170mm available travel, you do need a softer spring. The difference in spring rate between a 55 and a 50 isn't that drastic, it's 10% or so, it'll change your sag from say 20% to 22% - not big numbers. Keep in mind that it takes more than 20mm from the beginning of its engagement (50mm or so from bottom out) until the HBO is developing full force, so it will be having VERY little effect on travel use in your case. Light oil or revalving won't help with where you currently stand, that is for sure a spring rate concern.
    Thanks mate, Ordered a 50lb through NSD keen to give it a go.

  16. #616
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    So I did a lower servicing after 6 weeks of riding with my coil kit in my lyrik rc2. Everything was in good order, I oiled and lubed the foam rings and wiper seals but I noticed that when compressing the fork slowly, it sticks quite a lot. Kinda hard to explain but the fork compresses a bit, then it sticks, compresses again...sticks again and so on...very uneven movement. I compared it to my friends old Pike (with air spring) and his is buttersmooth...what the hell ?? I don't notice anything when riding though but I figured this stiction can't be good

  17. #617
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    Anyone have a 60 lb coil they aren't using? I will have a 65 lb I could trade if interested.

  18. #618
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    Can some of You share or link comparisom to Push when speaking of F36?

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve VS View Post
    From emailing with Ole (Rumblefish) I'm still a little unclear on exactly what the issue is in his case, but he is running aftermarket seals which protrude quite a bit further up from the lowers than the stock SKF ones. If you're in the same boat, that might be the issue. You should have (with SKF seals) nominal fork travel plus approx 3-8mm exposed stanchion (measured to crown, not o-ring) on a Fox fork, and nominal travel plus approx 1-5mm exposed stanchion on a Rockshox fork. The Smashpots are designed to reach soft topout at the beginning of the topout spring's engagement, ie pulling down should extend the fork beyond the nominal travel, not TO the nominal travel.

    The reason I suggest using exposed stanchion rather than the o-ring is because getting the o-ring all the way to full travel requires full compression of the ~6mm thick bottom out bumper.
    Steve, I have checked with original seals and the aftermarket seals, and still there is 6-7mm difference in travel, between air and coil setup.
    I am sure the difference is the top out spring on the Smashpot, since I get the last 6mm, when pulling the stanchions apart.

    So for me it made more sense to add 10mm travel to my 160mm original. That gives me 164mm available travel, instead of 154mm. That should have been perfect if it had been 5mm spacers, so it could be set at 159mm, but since I am having the sense of benefitting from getting extra ride height or higher dynamic sag, it is perfect.

  20. #620
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    So the way I came up with the usable travel was by removing the spring and forcefully compressed the fork to a hard bottom out. It audibly made a clank noise, almost metal to metal sound.
    Then I put the spring back in and measured from the top of the stock seal to the o-ring and came up with 174mm.
    I even found a sizable drop and purposely landed nose heavy and bottomed out the fork and came up with the same measurement.
    If I pull down on the lowers I can get the 180mm,

  21. #621
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    So the way I came up with the usable travel was by removing the spring and forcefully compressed the fork to a hard bottom out. It audibly made a clank noise, almost metal to metal sound.
    Then I put the spring back in and measured from the top of the stock seal to the o-ring and came up with 174mm.
    I even found a sizable drop and purposely landed nose heavy and bottomed out the fork and came up with the same measurement.
    If I pull down on the lowers I can get the 180mm,
    Yes I have the same fork and 174mm is the max I can get. So I have backed out the bottom out control and the done my big drop off to bottom the forks and can get 180mm. I have serviced the fork a week ago and changed the oils and checked everything over and looked a great detail at the heat shrink but hasn't moved and preload is correct. So far I am very happy with the coil feed back on corners. Even with the bottom control backed out the impact isn't to crazy so tomorrow will slowly wind in the valve and see how we go.

  22. #622
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    Anyone converted a Bomber Z1?

    I've got a new Bomber Z1 29 150mm, was planning to install an ACS3 that I bought used, but Push says it won't fit, so now I'm looking into a Vorsprung Smashpot which Vorsprung says will fit the Z1.

    I'm 195# nakid, ride aggressively, but I'm an old guy so I stay closer to the ground these days, max drops 3-4', lots of chunder riding at speed, so I'm thinking 50# spring cuz I like it plush.

    Anyone?

    Also got that ACS3 160mm for a Fox 36 for sale, used, but complete, send a PM or maybe someone wants to trade??
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  23. #623
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    I originally had it set up with 20 wt oil and whilst the action was silky smooth the fork wasn't getting anywhere near full travel coming to a stop at the point the hydraulic bottom out valving was supposed to start to work even with it open all the way.I'm using the correct spring.We changed the oil to 10 wt and that solved the problem.Possibly the 20 wt. oil was too viscous at winter temperatures here in NZ and it was hydrolocking as it tried to go through the port(at least thats what my mechanic said-I'm not an engineer so actually clueless)Anyway it all works beautifully now.

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Anyone converted a Bomber Z1?

    I've got a new Bomber Z1 29 150mm, was planning to install an ACS3 that I bought used, but Push says it won't fit, so now I'm looking into a Vorsprung Smashpot which Vorsprung says will fit the Z1.

    I'm 195# nakid, ride aggressively, but I'm an old guy so I stay closer to the ground these days, max drops 3-4', lots of chunder riding at speed, so I'm thinking 50# spring cuz I like it plush.

    Anyone?

    Also got that ACS3 160mm for a Fox 36 for sale, used, but complete, send a PM or maybe someone wants to trade??
    I've done my 36 Rhythm which is the same fork in black.

    Im at 55lb at 170mm 29er with no LSC and No Hydraulic Bottom out, it's nice. 225lb body weight.

  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    I've done my 36 Rhythm which is the same fork in black.

    Im at 55lb at 170mm 29er with no LSC and No Hydraulic Bottom out, it's nice. 225lb body weight.
    Thanks, that sounds good, hate to "ruin" a brand new Bomber, but I got it cheap and I have another fork I can use when I want to go lightweight.

    I'm lighter than you, so I'll start with a 45# spring and if it's too soft then #50 ...
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  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Thanks, that sounds good, hate to "ruin" a brand new Bomber, but I got it cheap and I have another fork I can use when I want to go lightweight.

    I'm lighter than you, so I'll start with a 45# spring and if it's too soft then #50 ...
    I've settled on 45# @ 75kg/165lb and find it plenty plush but still has some kind of support/best all-round feel, ie good grip on slow speed rooty trails but still holds up on fast choppy tracks.

    I would start someone at your weight on a 50# for an equivalent feel, based on what you describe. 45# would equate to ultra soft ie great on slow techy riding but nothing super aggressive.
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  27. #627
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    Is it possible to swap the damper and spring around on a pike/lyrik, thus protecting the inside of the airspring stanchion with the coil on the right hand side?

    Seems like they are identical other than the dimple in the left hand side?

  28. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Is it possible to swap the damper and spring around on a pike/lyrik, thus protecting the inside of the airspring stanchion with the coil on the right hand side?

    Seems like they are identical other than the dimple in the left hand side?
    Interesting thought. I do believe that the recess behind the circlip on the bottom of the inner legs are different. The charger damper doesn't use them, and neither does smashpot.

  29. #629
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    Very interesting. I assume the spring shaft/lower interface is different because it kind of a pressfit.

  30. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    I've settled on 45# @ 75kg/165lb and find it plenty plush but still has some kind of support/best all-round feel, ie good grip on slow speed rooty trails but still holds up on fast choppy tracks.

    I would start someone at your weight on a 50# for an equivalent feel, based on what you describe. 45# would equate to ultra soft ie great on slow techy riding but nothing super aggressive.
    I'm getting it used with three springs (45, 50, 55), so I'll start with the 50# and see what happens. I'm liking the Grip Damper way better than the Fit4. Based on my reading the Grip is a Marzocchi designed product and is only slightly different from a Grip2, so I'm just gonna stick with it.

    So to add the Vorsprung, all I need to do is drop the lowers, swap parts, change oil, and reassememble? Need new crush washers I'm assuming.

    Thanks for the feedback.
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  31. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Very interesting. I assume the spring shaft/lower interface is different because it kind of a pressfit.
    A friend of mine once turned his 2007 rockshox Reba into a baRe... worked just fine!

  32. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    Interesting thought. I do believe that the recess behind the circlip on the bottom of the inner legs are different. The charger damper doesn't use them, and neither does smashpot.
    Could be as my inspection was just a visual one, didn't make any measurements. I was surprised to see the inside of the damper leg was the same finish as the air spring side and that it had an circlip grove at all. Although, come to think of it, I've heard of people flipping the CSU around to get really low offsets too, which would mean the shafts will go in to either lower leg.

    I wouldn't mind trying out a coil just to see the difference. I had a coil on the back of my bike for a while though and am back to air. Being 100% able to convert back to air would make trying it out much more doable.

  33. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Very interesting. I assume the spring shaft/lower interface is different because it kind of a pressfit.
    Both sides are 10mm light press-fit. I can't think of any reason off-hand why this wouldn't work.
    I have all the ingredients here to test it, but a bit short on time.
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  34. #634
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    Hi,
    I've just installed the smashpod kit in my fox 36 few days ago, worked great till now.
    Today the fork felt harsh after a while and I could hear a *klonk* noise at about 50% of travel, not sure if it was there when I installed it.
    Any ideas what the noise could be? Could it be the point where the inner tube meets the topout-unit?



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  35. #635
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    Re: Swapping sides, the damper will go OK in the spring leg but the only small hangup is the rebound knob fouls on the brake mount part of the casting very slightly. Should be very simple to resolve though by turning down the knob a fraction

    Quote Originally Posted by JPJonny View Post
    Hi,
    I've just installed the smashpod kit in my fox 36 few days ago, worked great till now.
    Today the fork felt harsh after a while and I could hear a *klonk* noise at about 50% of travel, not sure if it was there when I installed it.
    Any ideas what the noise could be? Could it be the point where the inner tube meets the topout-unit?



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    Check the heatshrink hasn't moved, and if it has heat it up a bit more for a tighter fit
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  36. #636
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    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dog Size 3, long position, short lower cup, Marzocchi Bomber CR Coil 400#, Bomber Z1 Vorsprung Smashpot 50# spring 160mm Grip Damper. Iím 6í, 195# plus kit.

    Super easy install once I understood how everything goes together. Heavy as a coil fork, smooth as silk, plush as down. I once had an MRP Coil that I did not bond with, but this coil makes my heart sing. Considering that I really liked the Z1 with the air spring, the BomberCoilGrip combo is even better.

    Still got some tinkering to do with bottom out damper and compression, but for the most part itís damn close to perfect out of the box. I might upgrade to a 55# spring, but I think I have enough compression damping and spring damping that a stiffer spring isnít necessary.

    Vorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion-713ab591-51c4-4403-9211-cabb67198dde.jpg
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  37. #637
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    Careful as the Lyrik's spring side lower leg is longer than the damper leg.

  38. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    Re: Swapping sides, the damper will go OK in the spring leg but the only small hangup is the rebound knob fouls on the brake mount part of the casting very slightly. Should be very simple to resolve though by turning down the knob a fraction



    Check the heatshrink hasn't moved, and if it has heat it up a bit more for a tighter fit
    ^ This.

    I bought a used Smashpot from someone who didn't like it. When it arrived fully assembled, the shrink tube was covering the oil port and it didn't look it had slipped so much as it appears it was cut to long from the get go. Good for me cuz I get a used rig for cheap and it works awesome!

    Heat shrinking should be done with a heat gun, carefully to avoid overheating the aluminum, and it should be redone when tweaking set up. A good heat shrink will be tight, oil will have evaporated off the components, and the wrap will clearly show indentations from the underlying parts.
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  39. #639
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    Got some time on my Smashpot - I think it a solid product that performs as advertised. Just wanted to add to the chorus here in case someone was reading the thread and considering. I'm very pleased and happy I purchased it. If Steve decides to put out a low weight Ti spring, I'd get one as that would really make it a no brainer.

    Anyway: should anyone want to compare - what works for me:

    170mm Lyrik RCT3 @ 64 degree HTA
    40wt spring
    rider weight 170lbs
    Biased towards rock-gobbling chunk plush vs. massive big hits & sending it large

    Also have a 50wt spring for sale should anyone need a it.
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  40. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Got some time on my Smashpot - I think it a solid product that performs as advertised. Just wanted to add to the chorus here in case someone was reading the thread and considering. I'm very pleased and happy I purchased it. If Steve decides to put out a low weight Ti spring, I'd get one as that would really make it a no brainer.

    Anyway: should anyone want to compare - what works for me:

    170mm Lyrik RCT3 @ 64 degree HTA
    40wt spring
    rider weight 170lbs
    Biased towards rock-gobbling chunk plush vs. massive big hits & sending it large

    Also have a 50wt spring for sale should anyone need a it.
    Seriously, the Smashpot just works, set it and forget it, no stiction, no noise, no issues.

    In the beginning I wasn't using all my travel, had ~10-15mm remaining out of 160mm on tap, then this past weekend I hammered hard and what do you know, I used it all and didn't even notice it.

    The bottom out damper works very well, super happy that it does what it's supposed to do, no mess, no fuss, no air.

    I'm 195# nakid, running a 50# spring, 160mm travel, Bomber Z1, coil damping set at ~1/3, compression damping set at 1/4-1/3, rebound set at ~1/3.

    Set it and forget it.

    Edit: Adding a data point for folks looking at other options. I have never tried a Push ACS3, though I had one in my hands (didn't fit a Z1), but I have owned and ridden an MRP Ribbon Coil. As much as I wanted to like the Ribbon Coil, even after changing springs and tweaking repeatedly, I could never find the love. After the Ribbon Coil I messed with a lot of forks, Lyric Debonair 2, Fox 36 FIT4, Bomber Z1 GRIP, and the only fork that worked well for me was the Bomber Grip. The Vorsprung is better than all of the above, though, the Bomber Z1 as an air fork is pretty durn good for me.
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  41. #641
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    I'm around 170 lbs on an Enduro EVO (160mm) and have the spring at 50 lbs. I have to run the bottom out almost max'd not to use full travel. Changing the spring to 60 lbs and to 170mm to stiffen things up a bit and lessen the HBO. Hoping for 15% sag.... the North Shore has some gnarly terrain! Stiffer=faster.

  42. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthShoreDude View Post
    I'm around 170 lbs on an Enduro EVO (160mm) and have the spring at 50 lbs. I have to run the bottom out almost max'd not to use full travel. Changing the spring to 60 lbs and to 170mm to stiffen things up a bit and lessen the HBO. Hoping for 15% sag.... the North Shore has some gnarly terrain! Stiffer=faster.
    You should try running more compression damping. Over-springing is worse.

    Why do you not want to use full travel?
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  43. #643
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    I've tried more compression but it doesn't do that much.... with the 50lb spring I'm using the full suspension too much of the time. 60lb spring should be using full travel a lot less. Jordi from Fox recommends 15% to 20% sag so I should be on the lower end. I just feel more comfortable with a stiffer setup.

  44. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthShoreDude View Post
    I've tried more compression but it doesn't do that much.... with the 50lb spring I'm using the full suspension too much of the time. 60lb spring should be using full travel a lot less. Jordi from Fox recommends 15% to 20% sag so I should be on the lower end. I just feel more comfortable with a stiffer setup.
    I'm sure you ride bigger and harder than me, but I have 25# on you and you think a 50# spring is too light, that just doesn't make sense. I could go to a 55# spring, but I'd lose the plushness of a coil.

    The idea with compression damping is to control how the spring responds. Compression damping should do a lot, it should be able to lock your fork out. Perhaps your damper isn't working or it needs to be tuned?
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  45. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthShoreDude View Post
    I've tried more compression but it doesn't do that much.... with the 50lb spring I'm using the full suspension too much of the time. 60lb spring should be using full travel a lot less. Jordi from Fox recommends 15% to 20% sag so I should be on the lower end. I just feel more comfortable with a stiffer setup.
    What is your fork and damper? You may need a revalve.
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  46. #646
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    Fox Rhythm that came stock on the EVO.

  47. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthShoreDude View Post
    Fox Rhythm that came stock on the EVO.
    First step. Close the dial halfway and see how you like it.
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  48. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    First step. Close the dial halfway and see how you like it.
    I have.... usually have it around 3/8 from Firm with the 50lb spring. It does lock out at the Firm setting so I'm assuming it works fine. Did a small ride with the 60lb and feels way better but will be riding some gnar tomorrow and will update.

    been riding with the 50lb for around 5 months....

  49. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthShoreDude View Post
    I have.... usually have it around 3/8 from Firm with the 50lb spring. It does lock out at the Firm setting so I'm assuming it works fine. Did a small ride with the 60lb and feels way better but will be riding some gnar tomorrow and will update.

    been riding with the 50lb for around 5 months....
    At my weight (and yours)/travel, Steve originally had the medium-starting spring weight at 50lbs (why I have it) but realized his test riders were hard rippers and he lowered the chart accordingly as most our regular Joe's here are not. I know I'm biased slightly to plush feel - moto tuning for my class as well... I use all my travel but in a good way. Maybe you are on a Richie Rude end of the spectrum and like a Firm feel but like Dougal implies - it's worth checking to see if your damper valving is serving you. Your eventual sweet spot might be on the 50-55 but with a compression tune to match.
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  50. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    At my weight (and yours)/travel, Steve originally had the medium-starting spring weight at 50lbs (why I have it) but realized his test riders were hard rippers and he lowered the chart accordingly as most our regular Joe's here are not. I know I'm biased slightly to plush feel - moto tuning for my class as well... I use all my travel but in a good way. Maybe you are on a Richie Rude end of the spectrum and like a Firm feel but like Dougal implies - it's worth checking to see if your damper valving is serving you. Your eventual sweet spot might be on the 50-55 but with a compression tune to match.
    Had the first ride the 60 lb spring last night (also went from 160mm to 170mm so that makes it harder to bottom out as well). Took out the HBO to only 2 clicks in, and put the compression setting at around 1:00 position (I find lots of dampening makes for a harsher ride). The bike felt 100% better, night and day better. Almost used all the travel (within a mm or two). The bike was way more supportive in the chunk and just in general. Hard to explain but it just floated over the chunk and the compression on rock faces were a lot less harsh. Felt way more confident. Anyone want a 50lb spring?

  51. #651
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    Just got my first ride on my smashpot and think I went too stiff. Anyone have a 55 they are not using or want to trade for a 60?

    Thanks.

  52. #652
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    Steve, are you sure you dont want to revisit that Mattoc setup?? :-)

  53. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_Pierce View Post
    Steve, are you sure you dont want to revisit that Mattoc setup?? :-)
    The lighter rate springs slide into a Mattoc Pro stanchion. The heavier ones should be too tight. That's as far as I got with checking to see what is possible.

    Mattoc Comp has smaller ID stanchions than Pro and will be a no-go.

    Then you've got the issue than Mattoc already has HBO. So the Smashpot adaption would only need to be a spring carrier.

    Get started on the Mezzer if you want a coil project........
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  54. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The lighter rate springs slide into a Mattoc Pro stanchion. The heavier ones should be too tight. That's as far as I got with checking to see what is possible.

    Mattoc Comp has smaller ID stanchions than Pro and will be a no-go.

    Then you've got the issue than Mattoc already has HBO. So the Smashpot adaption would only need to be a spring carrier.

    Get started on the Mezzer if you want a coil project........
    Don't shoot my dreams down like that Dougal! Lol. I would love to have that fork!

    I know we have messed with this in the past in PM's. I just need to stop being so lazy and start messing around on my own.

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  55. #655
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    I am curious about the Mezzer. How is it riding and is it possible to use a coil kit on it? You have a HBO on that as well, so you need a coil spring assembly of some sort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The lighter rate springs slide into a Mattoc Pro stanchion. The heavier ones should be too tight. That's as far as I got with checking to see what is possible.

    Mattoc Comp has smaller ID stanchions than Pro and will be a no-go.

    Then you've got the issue than Mattoc already has HBO. So the Smashpot adaption would only need to be a spring carrier.

    Get started on the Mezzer if you want a coil project........

  56. #656
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    mattoc stanchions are too small ID for 160mm stroke. Especially tapered diameter. Only spring made from aerospace material could work That apply to standard spring. If you do something like vorsprung did - spring long from bottom of lowers to top cap that might work well. I can tell you that mattoc with coil is awsome at initial stroke. Air spring lacks some initital supplenes, but then nothing great happened. I hope mezzer will solve it

  57. #657
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    Hoping to get some insight/recommendations from y'all on how/whether Smashpot is my magic bullet.

    I'm 220lbs after my morning pee, and feel like I just get punched in the face by mid to high speed rock/root sections. I'm in Utah, so we have terrain from steep and chunky alpine to Moab slickrock.

    Was on a 160mm Pike that I upgraded to the Debonair and Charger 2 internals. That made a big difference from stock, but was still pretty rough. Next, I ordered a DVO Onyx SC thinking their OTT spring might help by letting me run lower pressures. It's better than the Pike, but not dramatically. It's a bit divey and still pretty harsh in the chunk.

    I also have a 2018 Fox 36 HSC/LSC. So it's the FIT damper with HSC/LSC and HSR. I haven't spent much time with this fork, but it generally feels about the same as the others. Just toooo much high-speed chudder chatter. Since the DVO can't take a Smashpot, this is my likely upgrade route.

    So Questions:
    1) Is Smashpot upgrade on the Fox worth it without also changing the FIT damper? From other posts, seems like as a fatso I would probably benefit more from a revalve than just a different stock damper that is also not intended
    2) My current ride seems to climb equally well at 160mm or 170mm (with air), any reason it would be different when coil?
    3) How important is it to run a coil shock with the coil fork? Currently have an X2 or a DVO Topaz T3 (air) that will work. Any reason to prefer one over the other in this scenario?

    Thanks!!

  58. #658
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    I'll give you a different advice. For high speed chatter start with tires. Put inserts like cushcore and run as low pressure as possible. In my experience that makes more difference. (Unless you've already done that of course).

  59. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben_mtb View Post
    I'll give you a different advice. For high speed chatter start with tires. Put inserts like cushcore and run as low pressure as possible. In my experience that makes more difference. (Unless you've already done that of course).
    That's actually great input. I recently switched from i40mm wheels with 2.6" tires to some i30mm with 2.6s (both sets carbon, but not same brand). I had CushCore in the 40s, but I do not have them in the 30s. My tire pressure is a touch higher now and lowering it does help, but then the tire roll is not confidence inspiring. Plus I f^*&ing hate dealing with tire swaps with the CC.

    But. I'll add it to the list of variables. I did like the feel of the CCs on the 40s, all things considered.

  60. #660
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    The Fit Damper works well with air or coil. I'm suprised you don't like the 36 Grip better than the Pike, it's stiffer and has a better damper. Have you tried removing all the volume spacers?

    There's no reason to match coil to coil, and in reality, the more travel you have, the more you'll get from a coil; ie makes more sense in a fork than a shock.

    There will be no difference in climbing from coil to air, use the compression damper if that's your habit, otherwise just ride it.

    Biggest difference from air to coil is small hit compliance and weight. The Smashpot is not some dainty shoed fairy, it'll add a pound to your front end and leave your wallet lighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Hoping to get some insight/recommendations from y'all on how/whether Smashpot is my magic bullet.

    I'm 220lbs after my morning pee, and feel like I just get punched in the face by mid to high speed rock/root sections. I'm in Utah, so we have terrain from steep and chunky alpine to Moab slickrock.

    Was on a 160mm Pike that I upgraded to the Debonair and Charger 2 internals. That made a big difference from stock, but was still pretty rough. Next, I ordered a DVO Onyx SC thinking their OTT spring might help by letting me run lower pressures. It's better than the Pike, but not dramatically. It's a bit divey and still pretty harsh in the chunk.

    I also have a 2018 Fox 36 HSC/LSC. So it's the FIT damper with HSC/LSC and HSR. I haven't spent much time with this fork, but it generally feels about the same as the others. Just toooo much high-speed chudder chatter. Since the DVO can't take a Smashpot, this is my likely upgrade route.

    So Questions:
    1) Is Smashpot upgrade on the Fox worth it without also changing the FIT damper? From other posts, seems like as a fatso I would probably benefit more from a revalve than just a different stock damper that is also not intended
    2) My current ride seems to climb equally well at 160mm or 170mm (with air), any reason it would be different when coil?
    3) How important is it to run a coil shock with the coil fork? Currently have an X2 or a DVO Topaz T3 (air) that will work. Any reason to prefer one over the other in this scenario?

    Thanks!!
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  61. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Hoping to get some insight/recommendations from y'all on how/whether Smashpot is my magic bullet.

    I'm 220lbs after my morning pee, and feel like I just get punched in the face by mid to high speed rock/root sections. I'm in Utah, so we have terrain from steep and chunky alpine to Moab slickrock.

    Was on a 160mm Pike that I upgraded to the Debonair and Charger 2 internals. That made a big difference from stock, but was still pretty rough. Next, I ordered a DVO Onyx SC thinking their OTT spring might help by letting me run lower pressures. It's better than the Pike, but not dramatically. It's a bit divey and still pretty harsh in the chunk.

    I also have a 2018 Fox 36 HSC/LSC. So it's the FIT damper with HSC/LSC and HSR. I haven't spent much time with this fork, but it generally feels about the same as the others. Just toooo much high-speed chudder chatter. Since the DVO can't take a Smashpot, this is my likely upgrade route.

    So Questions:
    1) Is Smashpot upgrade on the Fox worth it without also changing the FIT damper? From other posts, seems like as a fatso I would probably benefit more from a revalve than just a different stock damper that is also not intended
    2) My current ride seems to climb equally well at 160mm or 170mm (with air), any reason it would be different when coil?
    3) How important is it to run a coil shock with the coil fork? Currently have an X2 or a DVO Topaz T3 (air) that will work. Any reason to prefer one over the other in this scenario?

    Thanks!!
    Yes, IMO the Fox 36 with the Smashpot will be the "magic bullet." Getting the right spring is easy for some, but was a real process for me. There are a lot of factors involved and personal ride preferences play a big part as well. I can tell you it will be worth it and you will know when you hit your perfect spring rate. My advice would be to worry about the damper after the you get the Smashpot dialed. You likely will find you don't need to do anything with the damping beyond using the existing adjustments.

    Just as with descending, the fork tracks the terrain better when climbing. Where I might have found it necessary with an air sprung fork to loft the front wheel on top of a rocky step up, I can "smash" through it now without bouncing off.

    As ben-mtb points out, your tires are your first line of suspension. Getting them dialed is important for good control. However, they are just the initial contact. It's not going to make up for an air-sprung fork and its progressiveness. I personally think we were all sold a bill of goods for years because air forks were easier and cheaper to set up. In hindsight, for me trading performance for ease of setup was not worth it.

    There is no requirement to run a coil shock with a coil fork. Opinions may vary, but my Following can't take a coil shock and I'm happy with the Monarch (after a shock Shock Wiz tune). The Pike Smashpot conversion has made a phenomenal difference for me.

  62. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    First step. Close the dial halfway and see how you like it.
    Dougal, in general would you say it makes sense to run open compression on a coil fork and coil shock for maximum plushness when riding downhill?

    I feel like my shock and fork are dialed in pretty close, full open on both feels "synced", then when I need a little more support I add in a 1/4 turn of the 36 Grip and a few clicks on the Bomber CR.
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  63. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Fit Damper works well with air or coil. I'm suprised you don't like the 36 Grip better than the Pike, it's stiffer and has a better damper. Have you tried removing all the volume spacers?

    There's no reason to match coil to coil, and in reality, the more travel you have, the more you'll get from a coil; ie makes more sense in a fork than a shock.

    There will be no difference in climbing from coil to air, use the compression damper if that's your habit, otherwise just ride it.

    Biggest difference from air to coil is small hit compliance and weight. The Smashpot is not some dainty shoed fairy, it'll add a pound to your front end and leave your wallet lighter.
    Thanks for the insight. I'll not worry about the shock yet. As a 220# rider, a pound here or there is not as big of a deal. I just wanna plow!

    Since the DVO Onyx was between (and actually what I'm riding currently), I've never gone back-to-back with the 36 and the Pike. I'd say the 36 is about on par with the Onyx and both are improvements over the Pike. Certain things feel very good on the Onyxóparticularly the first 50mm or so of travel with the OTT. But since I'm sagging about 35mm (20%), it gets into the non-OTT travel pretty quickly and feels pretty bad. The DVO guys have been very helpful at providing suggestions, but I'm where they think it should be and it's still not great. I might very well be too picky or expecting too much, but I hear people on this forum saying "magic carpet ride" and I just can't believe anybody would say that about how my current forks feel.

  64. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Yes, IMO the Fox 36 with the Smashpot will be the "magic bullet." Getting the right spring is easy for some, but was a real process for me. There are a lot of factors involved and personal ride preferences play a big part as well. I can tell you it will be worth it and you will know when you hit your perfect spring rate. My advice would be to worry about the damper after the you get the Smashpot dialed. You likely will find you don't need to do anything with the damping beyond using the existing adjustments.

    Just as with descending, the fork tracks the terrain better when climbing. Where I might have found it necessary with an air sprung fork to loft the front wheel on top of a rocky step up, I can "smash" through it now without bouncing off.

    As ben-mtb points out, your tires are your first line of suspension. Getting them dialed is important for good control. However, they are just the initial contact. It's not going to make up for an air-sprung fork and its progressiveness. I personally think we were all sold a bill of goods for years because air forks were easier and cheaper to set up. In hindsight, for me trading performance for ease of setup was not worth it.

    There is no requirement to run a coil shock with a coil fork. Opinions may vary, but my Following can't take a coil shock and I'm happy with the Monarch (after a shock Shock Wiz tune). The Pike Smashpot conversion has made a phenomenal difference for me.
    Thanks. That's really helpful stuff.

    Another question: looking at the spring-rate chart, I'm 55lb in the medium setup and 50lb in the softer. If softer (50lbs) gets me "more compliance and grip," what is the practical drawback to choosing the spring that keeps me in range but on the softer table? I'll sag a bit more and need more bottom-out protection?

  65. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Thanks for the insight. I'll not worry about the shock yet. As a 220# rider, a pound here or there is not as big of a deal. I just wanna plow!

    Since the DVO Onyx was between (and actually what I'm riding currently), I've never gone back-to-back with the 36 and the Pike. I'd say the 36 is about on par with the Onyx and both are improvements over the Pike. Certain things feel very good on the Onyxóparticularly the first 50mm or so of travel with the OTT. But since I'm sagging about 35mm (20%), it gets into the non-OTT travel pretty quickly and feels pretty bad. The DVO guys have been very helpful at providing suggestions, but I'm where they think it should be and it's still not great. I might very well be too picky or expecting too much, but I hear people on this forum saying "magic carpet ride" and I just can't believe anybody would say that about how my current forks feel.
    So there is another thing about a coil thatyou may appreciate: There is no "getting into the non-OTT" travel, progression with a coil is linear, compression damping controls how fast you use travel, bottom out adds a little support in the last 10mm or so.

    So yeah, you might like how the coil feels in that regard.

    If you do get a coil out back, depending on the bike, you might need a progressive coil or a tune.

    I run a Bomber CR Coil with a tune, I like it most days, but I'm not sure it's better than an air can, maybe in terms of bottom out and overall progression, but small hits are still a tad bumpy; could be the suspension design.
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  66. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Thanks. That's really helpful stuff.

    Another question: looking at the spring-rate chart, I'm 55lb in the medium setup and 50lb in the softer. If softer (50lbs) gets me "more compliance and grip," what is the practical drawback to choosing the spring that keeps me in range but on the softer table? I'll sag a bit more and need more bottom-out protection?
    This is where some of the extra costs come in. You really won't know which spring is right until you ride it on your typical trails. I ended up way on the light sight of the spring recommendations, yet my sag is perfect, and I only use a little hydraulic bottom out.

    The initial spring recommendations were based on some very skilled riders on pretty extreme trails. Spring recommendations were on the harder side. Based on feedback, Steve modified the chart so it should be pretty close.

    My recommendation is if you are not frequently airborne, go with the "more compliance" option.

  67. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    This is where some of the extra costs come in. You really won't know which spring is right until you ride it on your typical trails. I ended up way on the light sight of the spring recommendations, yet my sag is perfect, and I only use a little hydraulic bottom out.

    The initial spring recommendations were based on some very skilled riders on pretty extreme trails. Spring recommendations were on the harder side. Based on feedback, Steve modified the chart so it should be pretty close.

    My recommendation is if you are not frequently airborne, go with the "more compliance" option.
    Pulled the trigger. 50lb spring which is on the soft chart. Figure I can take it to 180mm if it's too soft, lol.

    I'm just planning to use Fox 20wt Gold unless there something else that would be better/preferable...

  68. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Pulled the trigger. 50lb spring which is on the soft chart. Figure I can take it to 180mm if it's too soft, lol.

    I'm just planning to use Fox 20wt Gold unless there something else that would be better/preferable...
    Sweet. Look forward to hearing your ride reports. I think the Fox Gold is good. Dougal has done a lot of independent oil testing so he would actually be the one to ask if anything would be gained by switching.

  69. #669
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    Iím trying to remove the smashpot from my Lyrik so i can up the travel from 160 to 180mm.

    I unscrewed the top cap from the top and removed the nut and adjuster knob at the bottom and tried pulling it out but the bloody thing is stuck. Pulling on the top cap just pulls up the fork lowers along with it.

    Whatís a good way to break the spring assembly free?


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  70. #670
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    Oh I remember I had to hit the bottom nut very hard with my mallet, I even called vorsprung st first because I was unable to remove the lowers. The guy said to hit harder with the mallet as it locks much harder than on the damper side.

  71. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlo489 View Post
    Oh I remember I had to hit the bottom nut very hard with my mallet, I even called vorsprung st first because I was unable to remove the lowers. The guy said to hit harder with the mallet as it locks much harder than on the damper side.
    Ok, but the needle or pin (that turns to adjust Bottom Out) is sticking out right there. Guess iíll thread the nut in partially which exposes the pin and put and adjustable wrench through the middle of it and hammer on the wrench?


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  72. #672
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    Do yourself a favour. Cut the o-ring off your fork. Does it feel good? Do you have good grip? No harsh bottom outs?

    Those are the questions you need to ask yourself, not if itís using that last 10mm or travel.

  73. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Sweet. Look forward to hearing your ride reports. I think the Fox Gold is good. Dougal has done a lot of independent oil testing so he would actually be the one to ask if anything would be gained by switching.
    Here's the pretty picture:


    The RS 0W30 and 10wt lines are right on top of each other.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  74. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwzimmer View Post
    Ok, but the needle or pin (that turns to adjust Bottom Out) is sticking out right there. Guess iíll thread the nut in partially which exposes the pin and put and adjustable wrench through the middle of it and hammer on the wrench?


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    Put a socket over it
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  75. #675
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    I have been running the coil setup on my Fox 36 2018 RC2 180mm for 3 months riding 5 days a week so oil is FOX 20 and changed every month is a waste as its not getting very dirty so going to every 2 months. Even with new felt washers will last 2 months off heavy riding and racing.

  76. #676
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    What is the deal that all measure their fork or shock for that matter, by the use of all travel? If I have a got a ride as hard as I possible, and I still have travel left, I am happy if I know that it was not necessary to use all the travel. I always want the left mm of travel in spare for the moments that it is really needed.

    Of course if you ride jumps and drops on the edge of what you are able to, all the time and still not use more then 70% of travel, I agree you are over sprung.

  77. #677
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    I run 50ib spring and use 85% off travel all the time but can bottom out but have to push it hard. My HSC is 15 out and LSC 14 out and LSR 8. I would lower spring rate to 45ib as not using travel is a waste.

  78. #678
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    What is the problem, if you like the feel of that spring?
    Quote Originally Posted by Evo6 View Post
    I run 50ib spring and use 85% off travel all the time but can bottom out but have to push it hard. My HSC is 15 out and LSC 14 out and LSR 8. I would lower spring rate to 45ib as not using travel is a waste.

  79. #679
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    My training forest course I bottom out 3 times on same drop off as out today for my two and a half ride 1776 calories 134/166 bpm the fastest jump is taken at 18mphx3 times and suspension is so nice active and plush and rear coil 450ib DHX2 bottoms 3 times on this course.

  80. #680
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    I do not know what bike you ride or weight, or trail for that matter. I still mean that if you occasionally bottom out fork it is fine. I am on a 75lb spring and I bottom out when doing the worst segments or if I miss something. Still I found the that when I tried the 70lb spring it was totally no go for me. The fork dived to much, sat to low in travel and I was using far to much travel to often. You want to change a spring from 50 to 45, that is almost 10% change. Mine change was 6,7% and still to big change. But by all means, you could manage pretty much with much more compression damping, so I could be wrong. But there is not only how often you bottom out, or use all travel that is the measurement for when to go softer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evo6 View Post
    My training forest course I bottom out 3 times on same drop off as out today for my two and a half ride 1776 calories 134/166 bpm the fastest jump is taken at 18mphx3 times and suspension is so nice active and plush and rear coil 450ib DHX2 bottoms 3 times on this course.

  81. #681
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    I don't do spring-rate based on bottom-out. That's got way too many variables. I do spring-rate based on ride frequency and use compression damping to take out bump energy.

    Ride frequency works well because faster and more aggressive riders naturally want a faster frequency and firmer springs.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  82. #682
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    I ride a YT Capra carbon pro and come from a motocross background. I set my rear sag and don't bother with forks sag and both ends go up and down equal. I then contrate on LSC and then fine tune the hold up with HSC. I find that I run two o rings on the forks so I get a wipe affect and see what the forks are doing mid trail and then see if I bottom out one per circuit. Some days I am faster and it depends on weather like the past 3 days have been wet so only using 75% off travel. The coil rear shock I push the bump rubber to a position that will tell me how much travel I use on my fast jump.

  83. #683
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    Any idea what this will do for service intervals? Lyrik has 50 / 100 hr intervals. Seems like the air side is virtually no maintenance. Does going coil have an affect on full (damper) service intervals? Seems like it would have an affect. Kind of wondering in which direction.

  84. #684
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    Service Intervals

    Any idea what this will do for service intervals? Lyrik has 50 / 100 hr intervals. Seems like the air side is virtually no maintenance. Does going coil have an effect on full (damper) service intervals?

  85. #685
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    Anyone have 50lb or 55lb smashpot springs they want to sell (USA)?

    Anyone need a 65lb?

  86. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuba6388 View Post
    Does going coil have an effect on full (damper) service intervals?
    No effect on the damper to first order. Maybe a small (second order) effect if the coil means you're going harder/faster and putting more wear and tear on the damper.

    You'll still want to do the routine lowers & dust wipers service. Stiction from the wipers is a lot more noticeable when you eliminate the air side.

  87. #687
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    I usually run my smashpot on my stumpjumper Evo but today I swapped the fork onto my Ebike (Merida e160 900e) holy crap that was a good idea. I think the steeper head angle of the ebike combined with the weight just made the fork magic. This bike is already well sorted with a 36 grip2 and tuned x2 in the rear.

    I liked the smashpot on the stumpy, but wasnít totally blown away with it. It seems my issue is the spring rate is too high for a head angle this slack (63.5)

    Iím running a 55lb now. Would just dropping to a 50 be enough or get greedy and go for a 45 with some compression and HBO dialled on?

    No matter what your stance on ebikes are, one thing is for sure... the suspension definately works better on them.

  88. #688
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    Anyone heard any news on whether the Smashport is coming to DVO forks?

  89. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    ...

    No matter what your stance on ebikes are, one thing is for sure... the suspension definately works better on them.
    Sounds like you have a setup issue. In no way does the method of propulsion effect the suspension behavior outside of the design constraints of building a system optimized for chainring size.

    Now, if your bike is heavier on the same suspension setup, that is different. If your bike is faster on average or in spurts, that effects the performance too...but that is on you for setup on both fronts.

    Glad you're happy with it though. Sounds like the ebike is just undersprung, which is ok and totally user preference.

  90. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    Sounds like you have a setup issue. In no way does the method of propulsion effect the suspension behavior outside of the design constraints of building a system optimized for chainring size.

    Now, if your bike is heavier on the same suspension setup, that is different. If your bike is faster on average or in spurts, that effects the performance too...but that is on you for setup on both fronts.

    Glad you're happy with it though. Sounds like the ebike is just undersprung, which is ok and totally user preference.
    Yeah I was thinking it was an install issue by myself, that wasn't the case it seems. Must be spring rate too high for the stumpjumper.

    the ebike is approx. 6kg heavier than the stumpjumper, so yeah it will have an effect for sure.

    What I think is the difference mainly is the head angles of the bikes. The stumpy is 63.5 whereas the merida is 66.5. The more upright nature of the merida means the fork is more vertically compressed in relation to the ground.

    So the fork is currently at 170mm with a 55lb spring, this is netting a 63.2 deg head angle in "high" flip chip on the stumpy which is too bananas for anything but extremely steep tracks. I'm thinking drop to a 50lb and set it up as a 160mm and try again. Sound reasonable?

  91. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    I usually run my smashpot on my stumpjumper Evo but today I swapped the fork onto my Ebike (Merida e160 900e) holy crap that was a good idea. I think the steeper head angle of the ebike combined with the weight just made the fork magic. This bike is already well sorted with a 36 grip2 and tuned x2 in the rear.

    I liked the smashpot on the stumpy, but wasnít totally blown away with it. It seems my issue is the spring rate is too high for a head angle this slack (63.5)

    Iím running a 55lb now. Would just dropping to a 50 be enough or get greedy and go for a 45 with some compression and HBO dialled on?

    No matter what your stance on ebikes are, one thing is for sure... the suspension definately works better on them.
    Sounds like you were oversprung. How heavy are you?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  92. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Sounds like you were oversprung. How heavy are you?
    100kg naked.

    Interestingly your calculator recommended 55lb spring rate which isnít surprising.

  93. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    100kg naked.

    Interestingly your calculator recommended 55lb spring rate which isnít surprising.
    How long ago was that? It went softer after a revision about July. Most 100kg riders are getting 50lb/in recommendations now on the free calculator. The advanced calculator takes into account variable wheelbase and head-angle.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  94. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    How long ago was that? It went softer after a revision about July. Most 100kg riders are getting 50lb/in recommendations now on the free calculator. The advanced calculator takes into account variable wheelbase and head-angle.
    back when you were doing it for free on a thread here. All good mate I'll invest in a 50lb.

  95. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    back when you were doing it for free on a thread here. All good mate I'll invest in a 50lb.
    Found it. Old results were 55 lb/in fork and 580lb/in shock.

    New results for the same info are 50lb/in fork and 600lb/in shock.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  96. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoCo View Post
    Anyone heard any news on whether the Smashport is coming to DVO forks?
    I emailed vorsprung directly about this (I have a DVO Onyx) and they told me "no plans" for a DVO version. So I did the conversion on an older Fox 36. Incredible. Onyx is now for sale.

  97. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Sweet. Look forward to hearing your ride reports. I think the Fox Gold is good. Dougal has done a lot of independent oil testing so he would actually be the one to ask if anything would be gained by switching.
    Alright!!

    Spent the last 4 days in Sedona, AZ on the Smashpot. Highline, Hangover, Hog's area. Smashpot was incredible in every setting. It's everything everybody here says it is (IMO).

    Details, for those who research things to death like I did:
    Bike: 2019 SC Bronson, Large
    Fork: 2018 Fox 36 HSC/LSC FIT Damper. Running at 170mm.
    Shock: Fox x2 (now the week link)
    Spring Rate: 50lbs (soft chart at 170mm)
    Rider Weight: 220lbs
    Oil: Fox Gold 20wt
    Current Settings:
    Rebound: 0 clicks out
    HSC: 0 clicks out
    LSR: 4 clicks out
    BottomOut: 3 clicks

    Comparing to DVO Onyx SC 170mm and the pre-conversion Fox 36.

    Fork is magic-carpet smooth. Certainly feel the trail, but it's plush impact so its feedback without any harshness. I sprung on the lighter side, so there is *some* peddle bob when climbing and I think I need more LSR for technical climbing, low-speed boulder sections, etc.

    Even sprung on the light end, it stays up in its travel and I'm rarely using ALL of the travel. I find it takes a pretty significant drop and even a bit of nose-heavy landing to really bottom it out. But really that just makes it feel like there is no bottom.

    At speed, traction through everything has improved dramatically. Way less brakes, WAY less being knocked off line, and WAY WAY WAY less harshness.

    I do get some top-out noise on the trail if I need to pull-up over an obstacle. For typical rocks where I'm just nosing up over, no top-out. But when, say, transitioning over a little gully or something, I do get an audible top-out on the pull. Doesn't bother me, but it's there. I set my preload to exactly 9mm (as recommended), but it did seem like 8mm would have worked without play. Perhaps that'd be enough to stop the noise. I'll play with that on the next oil change, I suppose.

    You can definitely just smash into things. Lol. I was surprised how well it handles being smashed going uphill though. Climbing rocky ledges is now much more about just keeping the hammer down and just plowing up a ledge rather than having to first pop the front wheel over every obstacle.

    I think the damper could use some additional tweaking. I found the fork would get buried a bit on consecutive low-speed rock roll-overs. So like picking through a rock-garden at low-speed it would get a bit farther into the travel and even pogo more than is ideal. Address that with compression or maybe a click of rebound?

    I also found I can run higher front tire pressure without giving up plushness. I was pushing my luck on the low-psi front before trying to reduce harshness (18psi on 2.6 DHF with 30mm internal rim). After conversion, running 23psi. Much more predictable front end and still way more plush. Love it.

    I wish the collar that you tighten when assembling the Smashpot didn't require a cone-wrench. Just put regular wrench flats on that part. Would make torquing MUCH easier and the cone wrench narrowness seems unnecessary.

    All-in-all, very pumped.

  98. #698
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    I have a Wreckoning frame on the way and I have a lead on a cheap Bomber Z1. My question is will a Z1 with smashpot be better than if I just bought a ~$700 fork?

  99. #699
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    Quote Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
    I have a Wreckoning frame on the way and I have a lead on a cheap Bomber Z1. My question is will a Z1 with smashpot be better than if I just bought a ~$700 fork?
    The fitgrip damper is excellent. Combined with the smashpot itís an excellent combo. I have a 36 rythym with the smashpot (same as the z1) and my other bike has a grip2 factory 36 and now that Iíve got my coil spring rate correct Iíd say the smashpot fork is the winner. Go for it.

  100. #700
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    180mm Smashpot Installed - 2020 Enduro

    Just finished my custom build. Decided to go with 180mm and run a 35lb spring. Seems about right for my weight. 150lb rider (naked).

    Ride Report coming soon!!
    Vorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion-dscf7228.jpgVorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion-dscf7237.jpg
    Vorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion-dscf7230.jpgVorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion-dscf7233.jpg

  101. #701
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    Lovely build bmwzimmer

  102. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    How long ago was that? It went softer after a revision about July. Most 100kg riders are getting 50lb/in recommendations now on the free calculator. The advanced calculator takes into account variable wheelbase and head-angle.
    I cannot imagine 50 or 55 lb/in spring for a 100 kg rider is sufficient. My Fox 36 that I had with factory suggested set up with air spring at 108 psi, is similar to 75 lb/in spring. Even then I run the bottom out control fully closed I am bottoming out occasionally when I am taking the hardest hits, or doing something stupid. I am probably between 110-115kg depending on with backpack and more/less content and clothes.

  103. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumblefish2010 View Post
    I cannot imagine 50 or 55 lb/in spring for a 100 kg rider is sufficient. My Fox 36 that I had with factory suggested set up with air spring at 108 psi, is similar to 75 lb/in spring. Even then I run the bottom out control fully closed I am bottoming out occasionally when I am taking the hardest hits, or doing something stupid. I am probably between 110-115kg depending on with backpack and more/less content and clothes.
    Have a stab and see what you get: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...te-calculators

    Air springs and coil springs are extremely difficult to correlate due to the weak mid-stroke on air. Sounds like you need more compression damping though.

    55lb/in on a 100kg rider scales to 38.5 lb/in on a 70kg rider. A spring rate many are happily running.
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  104. #704
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    The reason I want this spring rate and not any softer is that it will be to much sag and I have low enough bb height like it is now. Also want to be able to run less LSC since I feel that it makes the suspension much more harsh. You will also get a less compressed spring and therefore a more plush feel with a 75 lb/in then a 70 lb/in since I felt that going softer only made it ride lower and hitting a more compressed area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Have a stab and see what you get: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...te-calculators

    Air springs and coil springs are extremely difficult to correlate due to the weak mid-stroke on air. Sounds like you need more compression damping though.

    55lb/in on a 100kg rider scales to 38.5 lb/in on a 70kg rider. A spring rate many are happily running.

  105. #705
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    Okay. So I'm a few more weeks into the Smashpot. Still love it, but a couple questions...

    I get a pretty audible top-out noise when quickly transitioning from compressed to a lifted front wheel. For example when hopping over an obstacle or transitioning through an abrupt creek bed or something. It only occurs when I'm actively pulling/shifting weight to get the front wheel off the ground.

    Is this the top-out people complain about/should be addressed with pre-load, or is this normal? I mean, it doesn't bother me muchóbut if I can reduce/eliminate it with pre-load, may as well...

  106. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Okay. So I'm a few more weeks into the Smashpot. Still love it, but a couple questions...

    I get a pretty audible top-out noise when quickly transitioning from compressed to a lifted front wheel. For example when hopping over an obstacle or transitioning through an abrupt creek bed or something. It only occurs when I'm actively pulling/shifting weight to get the front wheel off the ground.

    Is this the top-out people complain about/should be addressed with pre-load, or is this normal? I mean, it doesn't bother me muchóbut if I can reduce/eliminate it with pre-load, may as well...
    Unless your kit is from an early batch and didn't get updated, it shouldn't be affected as they revised the topout assembly and sent update kits for any stock that was already out there.

    I would check the preload cap is at the minimum (8mm exposed thread) first

    Also what spring rate and damper/rebound setting?
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  107. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Okay. So I'm a few more weeks into the Smashpot. Still love it, but a couple questions...

    I get a pretty audible top-out noise when quickly transitioning from compressed to a lifted front wheel. For example when hopping over an obstacle or transitioning through an abrupt creek bed or something. It only occurs when I'm actively pulling/shifting weight to get the front wheel off the ground.

    Is this the top-out people complain about/should be addressed with pre-load, or is this normal? I mean, it doesn't bother me muchóbut if I can reduce/eliminate it with pre-load, may as well...
    Make sure it's preloaded enough and the black plastic spring clip is well seated. I think it needs 8-10mm of thread sticking out off the top of my head. I did a spring change yesterday and I had mine at 9mm and nice and quiet.

    One thing I will say, I went from 55lb to 50lb, so a ~10% change in spring rate. Felt like a much higher change than that though! Finally got the feeling I am after. I thought the 63.2 HA was the reason for the very firm mid/end stroke but was just a simple case of spring rate too high. Quick lap on my test track confirmed I'm in suspension heaven Now to make the rear feel this good....

  108. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    Unless your kit is from an early batch and didn't get updated, it shouldn't be affected as they revised the topout assembly and sent update kits for any stock that was already out there.

    I would check the preload cap is at the minimum (8mm exposed thread) first

    Also what spring rate and damper/rebound setting?
    Thanks for the response. So it sounds like this IS the type of top-out noise people complain about. Again, it's not bothering me per se, but if I can reduce/eliminate it all the better.

    I was careful when setting it up to put it at exactly 9mm (middle of the 8-10mm recommendation in the instructions). I think it would have been fine at 8mm. Perhaps that would help.

    I'm on a 50lb spring at 100kg (so definitely on the soft end of the spectrum). I have the bottom-out control set about in the middle. I think I'm at 2 or 3 clicks of rebound (from full slow). Fox 36 FIT damper.

  109. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    Make sure it's preloaded enough and the black plastic spring clip is well seated. I think it needs 8-10mm of thread sticking out off the top of my head. I did a spring change yesterday and I had mine at 9mm and nice and quiet.

    One thing I will say, I went from 55lb to 50lb, so a ~10% change in spring rate. Felt like a much higher change than that though! Finally got the feeling I am after. I thought the 63.2 HA was the reason for the very firm mid/end stroke but was just a simple case of spring rate too high. Quick lap on my test track confirmed I'm in suspension heaven Now to make the rear feel this good....
    Hmmmm. Your comment about making sure it's "preloaded enough" has me confused. I thought the top-out noise occurred when there was too much preload, not too little. Is that not the case?

    I am at 9mm, so would noise be more likely reduced at 8mm or 10mm?

  110. #710
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    jist is this: just enough preload so the spring doesn't move/rattle w/ retainer but no more than nec. measure for reference but don't set by numbers alone (that measurement is mostly keeping you in the lane and being sure your set-up is safe w/ min #). in this case, you are doing yourself a disservice by "being sure it's tight" - go for just enough and then retest. It's pretty easy to adjust so maybe go on the light side of contact - test. Then adjust if nec.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

  111. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Hmmmm. Your comment about making sure it's "preloaded enough" has me confused. I thought the top-out noise occurred when there was too much preload, not too little. Is that not the case?

    I am at 9mm, so would noise be more likely reduced at 8mm or 10mm?
    9mm is perfect, Did you do 2x heat shrink on the spring for a Fox 36?

    Also as stupid as it sounds, you didn't put the spring in upside down? I did in a rush changing spring rates and it made an a racket.

  112. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by brash View Post
    9mm is perfect, Did you do 2x heat shrink on the spring for a Fox 36?

    Also as stupid as it sounds, you didn't put the spring in upside down? I did in a rush changing spring rates and it made an a racket.

    Yeah. Both layers of shrink. But it's not rattling in the stanchion, just top-out noise so it seems that pre-load is the only variable at play.

    My understanding is that there *may* be a better direction for the spring depending on the spring. I couldn't tell a difference with mine, so I suppose that could be the case, but again, I think that would just affect rattling and not top-out.

    I'll try taking the top cap off and backing the pre-load off .5mm to see what that does since I can do that without having to disassemble anything.

  113. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Yeah. Both layers of shrink. But it's not rattling in the stanchion, just top-out noise so it seems that pre-load is the only variable at play.

    My understanding is that there *may* be a better direction for the spring depending on the spring. I couldn't tell a difference with mine, so I suppose that could be the case, but again, I think that would just affect rattling and not top-out.

    I'll try taking the top cap off and backing the pre-load off .5mm to see what that does since I can do that without having to disassemble anything.
    Yeah all my springs fit the spacer nicely either end, I literally put my spring in upside down, as in the heatshrink was down the bottom haha. You only make that mistake once. I doubt I can go back to air now

    But have a play with the pre-load, as you mentioned its easy to adjust quick enough. Hopefully it's that simple a fix.

  114. #714
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    Looking for feedback from people who have installed the Smashpot on a Fox 36 Grip2 fork of a decently new model.

    I got a new bike with a 160 Grip2 fork, finding it great on high-speed chunder but on slow-speed rocks and roots it doesn't feel quite as precise, supple and grippy as my previous fork, which had the ACS3 coil. Have read lots of good reviews of the Smashpot and am considering getting it installed.

    Does the Smashpot offer a big step up in small-bump compliance and grip compared with the Grip2?

  115. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by lagerboy View Post
    Looking for feedback from people who have installed the Smashpot on a Fox 36 Grip2 fork of a decently new model.

    I got a new bike with a 160 Grip2 fork, finding it great on high-speed chunder but on slow-speed rocks and roots it doesn't feel quite as precise, supple and grippy as my previous fork, which had the ACS3 coil. Have read lots of good reviews of the Smashpot and am considering getting it installed.

    Does the Smashpot offer a big step up in small-bump compliance and grip compared with the Grip2?
    do you think smashpot replaces grip2?

  116. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    do you think smashpot replaces grip2?
    Sorry i should have expressed myself more precisely. I know the Smashpot doesn't replace the damper but rather the air spring. What i wonder is, do people find it a big performance improvement on a Grip2 fork? Especially 2019/20 models.

  117. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfjewjace View Post
    Yeah. Both layers of shrink. But it's not rattling in the stanchion, just top-out noise so it seems that pre-load is the only variable at play.

    My understanding is that there *may* be a better direction for the spring depending on the spring. I couldn't tell a difference with mine, so I suppose that could be the case, but again, I think that would just affect rattling and not top-out.

    I'll try taking the top cap off and backing the pre-load off .5mm to see what that does since I can do that without having to disassemble anything.
    Backed the preload off from 9mm to 8.25mm and I'd say that reduced top-out noise by 75% or so, so I'm very happy with that and will leave it there!

    I love this thing.

  118. #718
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    I run a Smashpot on a Grip damper, works well, not sure Iíd say itís better than the air spring, but I like it better.

    The Grip and Grip 2 dampers work really well, air or coil.

    Iíve got a fair number of hours on my Smashpot, no issues, super consistent function. No complaints other than it weighs a bit extra.

    Quote Originally Posted by lagerboy View Post
    Sorry i should have expressed myself more precisely. I know the Smashpot doesn't replace the damper but rather the air spring. What i wonder is, do people find it a big performance improvement on a Grip2 fork? Especially 2019/20 models.
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  119. #719
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    Advice on which spring for a 140mm pike on a Honzo? 212-214 lbs with gear, trying to decide between the 55 and 60 lb springs. Seems like folks are gravitating towards the lower end of the spectrum.

  120. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    Advice on which spring for a 140mm pike on a Honzo? 212-214 lbs with gear, trying to decide between the 55 and 60 lb springs. Seems like folks are gravitating towards the lower end of the spectrum.
    Spring rate calculators here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...te-calculators
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  121. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    Advice on which spring for a 140mm pike on a Honzo? 212-214 lbs with gear, trying to decide between the 55 and 60 lb springs. Seems like folks are gravitating towards the lower end of the spectrum.
    Depending on your preference I would be looking at a 60lb to start for you. 55 is definitely in the "plush" category for that application. I find the current spring chart to be a pretty good guide these days (the initial chart was firm for sure) and pretty consistent with my own experience/feedback/calculations.

    Even the 65 would go well for for a firm/poppy feel, but if you were thinking the 2 softer rates already then I would go with the 60
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
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  122. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    Depending on your preference I would be looking at a 60lb to start for you. 55 is definitely in the "plush" category for that application. I find the current spring chart to be a pretty good guide these days (the initial chart was firm for sure) and pretty consistent with my own experience/feedback/calculations.

    Even the 65 would go well for for a firm/poppy feel, but if you were thinking the 2 softer rates already then I would go with the 60
    Thanks, I noticed there is a note on the spring chart that says 65 lbs and up may require a damper retune.

    I have an older 140mm non-boost Pike with an Avy cartridge, and 2016 Boost Pike with the Luftkappe, which is currently on the Honzo. On one hand I hate to spend money upgrading an older fork, but on the other hand could the Avy/ Smashpot combo be the ultimate pike and would it require retuning of the Avy with the coil?

  123. #723
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    head angle plays a big part in spring rate from my experience.

    on the bike with 65.5 HA the fork feels amazing at 170mm 55lb, the other bike is a 63.2 HA and it's harsh, Same travel and spring.

    The magic bullet was dropping a rate for the slacker bike. Now we're talking

    At a guess, a 140mm fork will be on a relatively "steep" HA, so take Johnny's advice on Board IMO, Maybe err on the firmer side or middle of the chart.

  124. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    Thanks, I noticed there is a note on the spring chart that says 65 lbs and up may require a damper retune.

    I have an older 140mm non-boost Pike with an Avy cartridge, and 2016 Boost Pike with the Luftkappe, which is currently on the Honzo. On one hand I hate to spend money upgrading an older fork, but on the other hand could the Avy/ Smashpot combo be the ultimate pike and would it require retuning of the Avy with the coil?
    You're nowhere near 65 lb/in. I'd start you on 50lb/in and go 55 if you wanted firmer.

    Open bath has upsides and downsides. A new avalanche damper is tuned for your application already. The Charger dampers all need modified and retuned anyway. There are zero riders they are ideal for.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  125. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    Thanks, I noticed there is a note on the spring chart that says 65 lbs and up may require a damper retune.

    I have an older 140mm non-boost Pike with an Avy cartridge, and 2016 Boost Pike with the Luftkappe, which is currently on the Honzo. On one hand I hate to spend money upgrading an older fork, but on the other hand could the Avy/ Smashpot combo be the ultimate pike and would it require retuning of the Avy with the coil?
    I think with the Avy cart already tuned for your weight you should be OK for rebound on either fork.

    yeah its an older fork but still a good chassis with a nice damper now and its easy enough to swap in to the newer fork later if you want!
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
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  126. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    ...The Charger dampers all need modified and retuned anyway. There are zero riders they are ideal for.
    I thought the RTC3 was pretty good for a stock damper.

  127. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    I thought the RTC3 was pretty good for a stock damper.
    It's better than Motion Control was. Send it to me and you'll get a new appreciation for what it should do.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  128. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    Advice on which spring for a 140mm pike on a Honzo? 212-214 lbs with gear, trying to decide between the 55 and 60 lb springs. Seems like folks are gravitating towards the lower end of the spectrum.
    I'm 200lbs with gear and was riding a Chameleon with a Fox 36 Fit4 with vorsprung fractive tuning and smashpot at 140 travel and the 55lb spring was perfect so if I were you I'd start there and be open to going to a 60lb spring. I think Dougal's fork spring recommendations are a little soft (for me anyway)

  129. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    I think with the Avy cart already tuned for your weight you should be OK for rebound on either fork.

    yeah its an older fork but still a good chassis with a nice damper now and [I]


    ================================================== =====
    """its easy enough to swap in to the newer fork later if you want!
    ================================================== =====
    how so?
    breezy shade

  130. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    how so?
    The smashpot cartridge is the same regardless of fork, you just change the top cap and footnut to suit the brand its going in to
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  131. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    The smashpot cartridge is the same regardless of fork, you just change the top cap and footnut to suit the brand its going in to
    my misunderstanding, i thought you were talking about the AV damper cart swap
    breezy shade

  132. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    I'm 200lbs with gear and was riding a Chameleon with a Fox 36 Fit4 with vorsprung fractive tuning and smashpot at 140 travel and the 55lb spring was perfect so if I were you I'd start there and be open to going to a 60lb spring. I think Dougal's fork spring recommendations are a little soft (for me anyway)
    That's helpful. With a 140 fork and -1 Works headset, I should be right around 66d HT. Not slack by today's standards, but not steep either.

    On a HT fork dive has a bigger effect on geometry, so a 60lb might be good to keep the bike higher in travel.

    I felt like the tune on my Avy cart was a little soft. Great for soaking up chatter on flatter trails, but not confidence inspiring on the steeps. I ride a pretty wide variety of terrain from high desert single track, to N* bike park and south shore gnar.

  133. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    That's helpful. With a 140 fork and -1 Works headset, I should be right around 66d HT. Not slack by today's standards, but not steep either.

    On a HT fork dive has a bigger effect on geometry, so a 60lb might be good to keep the bike higher in travel.

    I felt like the tune on my Avy cart was a little soft. Great for soaking up chatter on flatter trails, but not confidence inspiring on the steeps. I ride a pretty wide variety of terrain from high desert single track, to N* bike park and south shore gnar.
    Bigger geometry change on a hardtail? Huh?

    Fork dive is controlled by LSC. If you have a fork that you cannot provide LSC without harshness then everything is a compromise. Over-springing it is a huge compromise but it works on smoother trails with big hits.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  134. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Bigger geometry change on a hardtail? Huh?

    On steeper terrain on a full sus, you get some compression in the rear to help keep the bike balanced.

    Fork dive is controlled by LSC. If you have a fork that you cannot provide LSC without harshness then everything is a compromise. Over-springing it is a huge compromise but it works on smoother trails with big hits.
    Right, don't want to be over-sprung, but a stiffer spring rides higher all else being equal.

  135. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada 29er View Post
    On steeper terrain on a full sus, you get some compression in the rear to help keep the bike balanced.

    Right, don't want to be over-sprung, but a stiffer spring rides higher all else being equal.
    On steeper terrain a FS bike fully rear is fully extended.

    When you over-spring for trail riding you also need an excessive amount of rebound damping to stop the fork bucking. That always ends up combined with less LSC damping than you would run with the correct spring.

    The result is a harsh but dead fork that packs over repeated hits. Not ideal.

    Firmer springs ideally need combined with firmer compression to help support more aggressive and faster riders taking bigger impacts. Typical example being jump bikes.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  136. #736
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    Has anyone tried using an even lighter spring than what the new charts recommend?

  137. #737
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    I've been running the smashpot most of this year. Average riding skills, not a huge sender or anything. My current setup is;

    170mm 29er (SB150)
    45lb spring
    NO HSC, minimal LSC, and no bottom out resistance.
    75kgs

    Dont think I've ever bottomed out, but have liked how the fork felt, maybe a little harsh on the small-mid stuff, but super supportive the fork rides nice and high in its travel. Average trail ride, maybe use 130mm travel, shuttling more like 150mm.

    I'm going to give the 40 spring another go (ran it on a couple of rides when I first got the kit) and start messing around more with the bottom out and the compression dials.
    40lb spring would put me on the medium chart for my weight, although when I bought the kit the medium chart had me at 45lb spring, but I've read they revised the spring weights a little

    Curious to see how it goes, i'll report my findings

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