Vorsprung Smashpot Coil Conversion

[louf]

Steve, if in-between a 50 and a 55lb spring I presume pick a 50 and shim it a bit?
ta

[aski]

Curious question....I have a 2018 Pike RC which supposedly is greatly over-damped. Where is the greater value? A coil conversion such as the Smashpot or a custom tuned cartridge such as the Avy? I weigh 140 lbs.

[inaxganja]

...

[inaxganja]

Stoke level is through the roof!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

569g?? Is heavy!! Which spring rate?? Final weight of the fork???

[pjames12]

I'm coil-curious and man has this piqued my interest. Currently running a F34, but I've been debating picking up a take-off Yari and buying the RC2 damper for it so I could run a 140 or 150mm Lyrik...now I'm tempted to get a take off Yari and convert it to coil and buy the RC2 damper.

Anyone have thoughts on what would be a better upgrade for a Yari--swapping the damper or the air for coil? If I do this, I'd eventually do both, but I would probably have to space them out so the wife doesn't kill me .

[noot]

I'm coil-curious and man has this piqued my interest. Currently running a F34, but I've been debating picking up a take-off Yari and buying the RC2 damper for it so I could run a 140 or 150mm Lyrik...now I'm tempted to get a take off Yari and convert it to coil and buy the RC2 damper.

Anyone have thoughts on what would be a better upgrade for a Yari--swapping the damper or the air for coil? If I do this, I'd eventually do both, but I would probably have to space them out so the wife doesn't kill me .

I believe this question was asked already, about a Yari as well:

I’m assuming that you would want to upgrade the damper on the Yari fork before adding the smashpot right?

You'll notice a bigger change from the spring than the damper on that fork for sure.

[pjames12]

I believe this question was asked already, about a Yari as well:

Thats what I get for only skimming the thread. Thanks!

[Cerberus75]

I'm coil-curious and man has this piqued my interest. Currently running a F34, but I've been debating picking up a take-off Yari and buying the RC2 damper for it so I could run a 140 or 150mm Lyrik...now I'm tempted to get a take off Yari and convert it to coil and buy the RC2 damper.

Anyone have thoughts on what would be a better upgrade for a Yari--swapping the damper or the air for coil? If I do this, I'd eventually do both, but I would probably have to space them out so the wife doesn't kill me .

Yari + Avalanche damper + coil is amazing

[JTmofo]

569g?? Is heavy!! Which spring rate?? Final weight of the fork???

Spring is a 55lb.
I've no idea of the final weight of the fork.

In fairness, if you're looking at a coil conversion, you should have very little concern about the weight increase.

It's going to be heavier without doubt. Suppose I can always weigh the parts that were removed and discarded and see the delta.... but I can't be arsed. I just want to go and ride it!!!!

[bmwzimmer]

The Factory Air Spring assembly includes the air spring, top cap, volume spacers, schrader valve, foot nut, etc.... you are probably removing 150-200g. So the net weight gain should likely be under 400g.

I ordered the Smashpot yesterday and got notification today it is shipping out. I was gonna wait for a few reviews first but I decided to just do it since I don't think you can go wrong with a Vorsprung product.

I got a 45lb spring for a 2019 Lyrik RC2 29er (160mm). I weight 160lbs fully geared up.

[JohnnyC7]

Curious question....I have a 2018 Pike RC which supposedly is greatly over-damped. Where is the greater value? A coil conversion such as the Smashpot or a custom tuned cartridge such as the Avy? I weigh 140 lbs.

Spring is more important than damping, so you will have more benefit from the coil kit for sure.

None of the pikes are overdamped, that is a myth and 2018 is softer than all the previous ones anyway. I guarantee if you have any "harshness" it will disappear after going to coil

I have the exact same fork and hanging out to get my smashpot kit very soon!

[Calhoun]

Does the Smashpot work on the Fox Rhythm 36 forks? The ID on the stanchions is smaller than the standard Fox 36 (1.275" vs 1.287" for the airshaft) I realize it is a miniscule difference but it's enough for Fox to manufacturer different air-shafts for the two.

Curious if this limits the space needed for the Smashpot coil.

[zhendo]

Curious question....I have a 2018 Pike RC which supposedly is greatly over-damped. Where is the greater value? A coil conversion such as the Smashpot or a custom tuned cartridge such as the Avy? I weigh 140 lbs.

I disagree with the other reply...I'd start with revalving the damper first. An air spring is super tunable, and you'll be able to get that spring working for your weight just fine, may just need more tokens than average given low pressures that you'll be running not ramping aggressively enough.

At your weight, you're below the typical weight range that Rockshox has in mind when building a damper. The RC is supposedly generally overdamped, so even with a coil spring you'll be running into a compression valving that is too firm for your weight, making the fork feel harsh.

Avy makes a great cartridge, but there are plenty of other tuners who will re-valve the Charger for you for much less money.

[bmwzimmer]

@JTmofo, Any early ride or parking lot impression?

[dickrich]

Does the Smashpot work on the Fox Rhythm 36 forks? The ID on the stanchions is smaller than the standard Fox 36 (1.275" vs 1.287" for the airshaft) I realize it is a miniscule difference but it's enough for Fox to manufacturer different air-shafts for the two.

Curious if this limits the space needed for the Smashpot coil.

Also, still curious if this the case with the new Marzocchi Bomber Z1?

[JohnnyC7]

At your weight, you're below the typical weight range that Rockshox has in mind when building a damper. The RC is supposedly generally overdamped, so even with a coil spring you'll be running into a compression valving that is too firm for your weight, making the fork feel harsh.
.

�Supposedly� is the operative word here, the 2017 and earlier forks had a fairly stiff shim stack that people people assumed made a lot of damping but doesn�t. 2018 forks and on are completely different. Harshness is usually either from friction or the spring curve of an air spring.

I have dyno tested most of the modern generation of dampers and I wouldn�t call any of them �overdamped� and it is usually the heavier guys more likely to benefit from a different compression tune.

Like I said, I run this exact fork myself and can bottom it at 70psi without trying that hard at all

[JTmofo]

Does the Smashpot work on the Fox Rhythm 36 forks? The ID on the stanchions is smaller than the standard Fox 36 (1.275" vs 1.287" for the airshaft) I realize it is a miniscule difference but it's enough for Fox to manufacturer different air-shafts for the two.

Curious if this limits the space needed for the Smashpot coil.

Direct from the Vorsprung website

"What versions of the Fox 36 does it fit?
It fits all versions of the 36 from MY2015 onwards EXCEPT Pedelec e-bike specific forks. IMPORTANT: Call Fox with your serial number to check your fork's maximum permissible travel if attempting to run your fork with the Smashpot over 160mm if this is more travel than it currently has"

Direct from the installation instructions
"ADDITIONAL STEP (19)
FOR FOX 36 FORKS ONLY
19. Using a Heat Gun, install additional
50mm length of red Heat Shrink over the
top of existing Heat Shrink on the COIL
SPRING. This step helps prevent noise
from spring deflection due to the larger
diameter stanchion on the Fox 36. NOTE:
NOT NECESSARY ON 36 RHYTHM"

So to answer your question, then yes.... it is compatible.

[JTmofo]

@JTmofo, Any early ride or parking lot impression?

Smashed out a 20km run on it yesterday. Local trail that I know very well.
First impressions are "this thing is phenomenal".

I'm 88kg kitted, running a 55lb spring in a Fox 36 Grip2 at 160mm.

Small bump compliance (over used cliché) is out of this world. Local trail has lots of small/medium sandstone rock gardens, chunder and hard pack over rock.

I left my damper settings as they were with the air spring as a starting point. I run minimal HSC (to try and deal with packing up and the harshness of high speed repetitive hits), large amounts of LSC and mid range LSR and HSR.

There is a HUGE improvement off the top of the travel. Smooth and buttery with ZERO stiction. Fork remains composed through repetitive high speed hits, and smoothens it out as if its not there.
I will have to play around with Comp/rebound to find a sweet spot for a little bit more traction on off camber corners, but that's the damper set up to deal with the coil suppleness (it been very dry here and as a consequence its extremely sandy and loose on the off camber corners)

I set the top out damper to a mid setting (will probably dial some damping out today), and didn't manage to hit full travel on the bigger drops and jumps. Saying that, there is nothing huge on this particular trail, so it'll be interesting to see how is goes on bigger trail features with G outs.

For those weight weenies out there.... this is not the upgrade for you. Smashpot weighs more (a lot more) than your air spring. Without weighing the fork after installation, I reckon there's 450 to 500g additional. Spring, extra spacer material and oil volume all add to the extra weight.

You can definitely feel the extra mass on the trail, especially pumping, pre-hopping and picking the front up over features. That said, its only a matter of getting used to it, and so far the positives definitely outweigh the weight penalty.

Highly recommended..... just buy one.

[louf]

Smashed out a 20km run on it yesterday. Local trail that I know very well.
First impressions are "this thing is phenomenal".

I'm 88kg kitted, running a 55lb spring in a Fox 36 Grip2 at 160mm.

Small bump compliance (over used cliché) is out of this world. Local trail has lots of small/medium sandstone rock gardens, chunder and hard pack over rock.

I left my damper settings as they were with the air spring as a starting point. I run minimal HSC (to try and deal with packing up and the harshness of high speed repetitive hits), large amounts of LSC and mid range LSR and HSR.

There is a HUGE improvement off the top of the travel. Smooth and buttery with ZERO stiction. Fork remains composed through repetitive high speed hits, and smoothens it out as if its not there.
I will have to play around with Comp/rebound to find a sweet spot for a little bit more traction on off camber corners, but that's the damper set up to deal with the coil suppleness (it been very dry here and as a consequence its extremely sandy and loose on the off camber corners)

I set the top out damper to a mid setting (will probably dial some damping out today), and didn't manage to hit full travel on the bigger drops and jumps. Saying that, there is nothing huge on this particular trail, so it'll be interesting to see how is goes on bigger trail features with G outs.

For those weight weenies out there.... this is not the upgrade for you. Smashpot weighs more (a lot more) than your air spring. Without weighing the fork after installation, I reckon there's 450 to 500g additional. Spring, extra spacer material and oil volume all add to the extra weight.

You can definitely feel the extra mass on the trail, especially pumping, pre-hopping and picking the front up over features. That said, its only a matter of getting used to it, and so far the positives definitely outweigh the weight penalty.

Highly recommended..... just buy one.

so the spring weights on the chart are good? you still have a little left in reserve it seems.

[JTmofo]

Yeah I reckon it's pretty close.
I haven't tweaked the bottom out damper so I'm going to presume I can work full travel out of it.

Its pretty spot on in terms of sag @25% so that's all you can ask for from a coil.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[louf]

nice 👍

[bmwzimmer]

Yeah I reckon it's pretty close.
I haven't tweaked the bottom out damper so I'm going to presume I can work full travel out of it.

Its pretty spot on in terms of sag @25% so that's all you can ask for from a coil.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Nice man, I am a weight weenie as I am 145lb or 155lbs fully geared up with water so I will definitely feel the added weight more than heavier guys. Regardless I am going for it.

The good thing with a Grip 2 Fox 36 or a RC2 Lyric is if your spring rate is too high, you can run less HSC and if it's a bit too Low you can add some back or increase the top out damper a bit.

Increase the top out damper is better than increasing HSC right??

[JTmofo]

Nice man, I am a weight weenie as I am 145lb or 155lbs fully geared up with water so I will definitely feel the added weight more than heavier guys. Regardless I am going for it.

The good thing with a Grip 2 Fox 36 or a RC2 Lyric is if your spring rate is too high, you can run less HSC and if it's a bit too Low you can add some back or increase the top out damper a bit.

Increase the top out damper is better than increasing HSC right??

I'm going to say that I would use the bottom out adjustment to achieve full travel before playing with the HSC or LSC.
The Smashpot bottom out damper is completely independent of the Fork damper, so change will only impact the bottom out force (albeit also the damping in the last 40% of travel).

Any change to the fork damper HSC/LSC will affect the damping through the entire range.

I'm open to be corrected here... seeing as the Smashpot is new (along with its bottom out control)

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[kwapik]

Direct from the Vorsprung website

"What versions of the Fox 36 does it fit?
It fits all versions of the 36 from MY2015 onwards EXCEPT Pedelec e-bike specific forks.

That makes sense as the 36 e-bike fork uses the 34's internals.

[Steve VS]

For those asking whether it fits a 36 Rhythm - yes it does. The stanchions are thicker, but these kits fit inside 35mm forks to begin with. Top caps in the Rhythms are identical to the Factory/Performance series forks.

[bdundee]

For those asking whether it fits a 36 Rhythm - yes it does. The stanchions are thicker, but these kits fit inside 35mm forks to begin with. Top caps in the Rhythms are identical to the Factory/Performance series forks.

Am I the only one who reads Steves responses while mentally hearing his accent?

Thanks Steve for all your help here and on your Tuesday Tune!!

[Calhoun]

So to answer your question, then yes.... it is compatible.

For those asking whether it fits a 36 Rhythm - yes it does. The stanchions are thicker, but these kits fit inside 35mm forks to begin with. Top caps in the Rhythms are identical to the Factory/Performance series forks.

Awesome, thanks guys!

[SyT]

Could someone post the spring's dimensions? Im curious if anything in my " coil pile" fits this.

[RobMega275]

Any ideas?

I got it fitted no problem today.
The feel is very good but I'm getting quite a loud "top out" noise even when the rebound damping is set too slow.
I'm using the 45lb spring at 170mm, I weigh 72Kg with kit.
The top out noise is not noticeable when riding off kerbs and general car park ring (all I could try today).

I've taken the assembly out and checked everything (without removing the shrink wrap), can't see anything that I've done wrong. 10mm top out spacer and 40mm of pre-load spacers.

The noise sound is very similar to manually pulling the top out assembly up against the top out spring, I can then feel the top out spring if I manually pull harder.

Maybe it's normal? My son's bike with ACS conversion on a Fox 36 does not make this noise.

Thanks everyone

[bmwzimmer]

Did you stick in those preload spacers to make sure the spring is tight?

[Erotomania]

I want to try this thing so bad, but I don’t know if my bike can take any more weight (34lbs).

[SyT]

Do you mean 40mm of actual preload? That's a solid 30+ too much

[bmwzimmer]

Per the Instructions, 2-4mm
12. Check that the COIL SPRING is adequately pre-loaded so that it is not able to rattle around. One or two of the 2mm SPRING SPACERS (part number: 13-07-3-08) may be required for appropriate preload. Position the longest spacers closest to the COIL SPRING and the shortest spacers furthest away as this help stabilise the spring assembly during use.
**NOTE: Do not use any more preload than is necessary to hold the COIL SPRING in place. Over-preloaded forks may make noise when reaching full extension.

[rjwspeedjunkie]

I have the exact same symptoms, preload is exact as per the instructions and I have tried to add / remove spacers and adjust the spring preload cap within the specified tolerance of 8 to 10mm, but still the same.

Like you say, its not obvious when you ride, but when you lift the bike (into the car, or lifting the front end for a jump etc.) you get a top out sound and quite a pronounced feeling of the top out spring platform hitting the travel spacers.

I've stripped mine down and checked everything and have even gone so far as to try a rubber o ring on the shaft, so that is contacted instead of the nylon top out spring spacer, but the top out feeling is still very much present.

I've been in contact with Steve @ Vorsprung who has been incredibly helpful and responsive and I will hopefully be speaking to him this evening (I'm in the UK) to try and work out what's causing it.

It may be that I am being fussy, as this isn't that obvious with normal riding, but I can bounce up and down on the fork really lightly and get the feeling that you would with a worn shock bushing so it doesn't seem right - It isn't a top out due to too much spring preload, but even with excessive preload, the top out should remain silent as it is in the factory version, or as mentioned the ACS3.

Hope to get it cleared up after speaking with Steve, as I really like the hydraulic bottom out control and everything else on the conversion is spot on!

I'll update when I've spoken to Steve!

[Tree]

I have the exact same symptoms, preload is exact as per the instructions and I have tried to add / remove spacers and adjust the spring preload cap within the specified tolerance of 8 to 10mm, but still the same.

Like you say, its not obvious when you ride, but when you lift the bike (into the car, or lifting the front end for a jump etc.) you get a top out sound and quite a pronounced feeling of the top out spring platform hitting the travel spacers.

I've stripped mine down and checked everything and have even gone so far as to try a rubber o ring on the shaft, so that is contacted instead of the nylon top out spring spacer, but the top out feeling is still very much present.

I've been in contact with Steve @ Vorsprung who has been incredibly helpful and responsive and I will hopefully be speaking to him this evening (I'm in the UK) to try and work out what's causing it.

It may be that I am being fussy, as this isn't that obvious with normal riding, but I can bounce up and down on the fork really lightly and get the feeling that you would with a worn shock bushing so it doesn't seem right - It isn't a top out due to too much spring preload, but even with excessive preload, the top out should remain silent as it is in the factory version, or as mentioned the ACS3.

Hope to get it cleared up after speaking with Steve, as I really like the hydraulic bottom out control and everything else on the conversion is spot on!

I'll update when I've spoken to Steve!

rjwspeedjunkie, just curious, what travel setting are you using? and what fork?

[rjwspeedjunkie]

160mm.....

[louf]

and it definitely not the footnut?

[rjwspeedjunkie]

and it definitely not the footnut?

Absolutely certain, everything has been fitted, re fitted, torqued exactly to specification etc. I'm just trying some other things and I'm certain there is no way with the one I have to get rid of the top out as it's simply a case of two parts impacting one another without any damping.

Hopefully I'll know more after speaking with Steve, but it's either 'the way it is' in which case maybe I'm being fussy, or there is something not right that needs a change of part.

I'm an ex pro mechanic and still spanner for some local teams, so hopefully I'm not doing something stupid, although I'm more than happy to concede defeat if that turns out to be the case :-)

[louf]

hopefully I'm not doing something stupid, although I'm more than happy to concede defeat if that turns out to be the case :-)

usually nice when it is as its the simplest fix!

[tkblazer]

Well, my turn for an issue/problem which may be my fault. I am running a 70lb pring for a boost pike form which i want to set to 140mm. I have 40mm of top out spacers on one 10mm preload spacer for the spring installed. The problem im having is, my fork has about 155mm of stanchion showing and the fork is very firm on spring rate. The firmness makes sense since i should be on a 60lb spring at that travel setting. Im thinking about tearing it apart again, but i know i have it assembled as per the instructions. Anyone else have a similar problem?

Edit, Steve responded super quick to my email and stated that 2018+ 29er pikes do not need the top cap spacer. Heads up in advance for anyone with a newer pike. The spacer is only for 14-17 29er pikes

[rjwspeedjunkie]

Quick update - I've caught up with Steve and run through my top out issue - It seems me and one other person have reported the same thing, so I went through a bunch of things with him to hopefully allow the issue to be replicated in the Vorsprung workshop.

Steve said to give him a couple of days to investigate, so I will post up the conclusion when we have something sorted :-)

[bmwzimmer]

Luckily, tkblazer's issue was easily resolved and without having to take the whole fork apart.
@tkblazer, please let us know how the fork feels (besides the wrong spring rate) and if there is any unusual sounds.

@RobMega275, rjwspeedjunkie, with the topout sounds, What forks are you guys running?

@JTmofo, no top out sounds with your Grip 2 Fox 36?

I'm receiving my Smashpot kit for a Lyrik Application today and not sure if I should wait to see what the issue is before installing it....

[tkblazer]

Fork feels great, but I won’t be able to hit the trails until tomorrow. Not issues with top out at all, I did add two clicks of rebound damping since it felt a bit quick with the coil spring.

[Steve VS]

Quick update - I've caught up with Steve and run through my top out issue - It seems me and one other person have reported the same thing, so I went through a bunch of things with him to hopefully allow the issue to be replicated in the Vorsprung workshop.

Steve said to give him a couple of days to investigate, so I will post up the conclusion when we have something sorted :-)

Correct - you and @RobMega275 are the ones who've reported this so far. Haven't managed to properly replicate this in the workshop yet but we're trying a bunch of different things to see what's causing it so we can get it sorted for you. I'll shoot you an email and post here once we've got it figured out.

[rjwspeedjunkie]

Luckily, tkblazer's issue was easily resolved and without having to take the whole fork apart.
@tkblazer, please let us know how the fork feels (besides the wrong spring rate) and if there is any unusual sounds.

@RobMega275, rjwspeedjunkie, with the topout sounds, What forks are you guys running?

@JTmofo, no top out sounds with your Grip 2 Fox 36?

I'm receiving my Smashpot kit for a Lyrik Application today and not sure if I should wait to see what the issue is before installing it....

I'm running 2019 Fox 36 Factory with Grip 2 damper. I wouldn't be nervous about going for the smashpot, the top out in getting does seem to be an isolated issue on the two mentioned cases, which I believe are both on 36s!

[Condor[ger]]

Is it possible that the damper unit is actually making the top out sound?

[rjwspeedjunkie]

Is it possible that the damper unit is actually making the top out sound?

Negative, the sound and feeling is 100% from the spring side and can be felt with the coil both in and out of the fork, as well as by manually pulling the damper shaft in and out without the spring on the damper.

[RobMega275]

Ok, I followed Steve's advice and backed off the spring cap to absolutely no preload - cured the problem unless I remove all the rebound damping!

FYI;
Lyrik at 170mm
Fast Damper
45lb spring - think I might need a 40lb
Rebound feels good at 6/7 clicks out from fully closed.

[JTmofo]

@JTmofo, no top out sounds with your Grip 2 Fox 36?

No mate, all clear on my install. I did make an extra effort to ensure the most minimal of preload on the spring as per the install instructions.

To achieve this, I didn't use any spacers and I measured exactly 9mm with the spring held securely.

"Preload needs to be adjusted using the
included spacers so that this no-play
condition occurs when approximately 9mm
of INNER TUBE thread is exposed (Max
10mm, Min 8mm).

**NOTE: Do not use any more preload than
is necessary to hold the COIL SPRING in
place. Over-preloaded forks may make
noise when reaching full extension."

[rjwspeedjunkie]

Is it possible that the damper unit is actually making the top out sound?

No mate, all clear on my install. I did make an extra effort to ensure the most minimal of preload on the spring as per the install instructions.

To achieve this, I didn't use any spacers and I measured exactly 9mm with the spring held securely.

"Preload needs to be adjusted using the
included spacers so that this no-play
condition occurs when approximately 9mm
of INNER TUBE thread is exposed (Max
10mm, Min 8mm).

**NOTE: Do not use any more preload than
is necessary to hold the COIL SPRING in
place. Over-preloaded forks may make
noise when reaching full extension."

Just for my own sanity, if you lift the front end of the bike up, do you feel any knocking at all as you lift it? That's where I am getting the noise and feeling from.

Also measured at an exact 9mm (plus tried 1mm increments from 7 to 10 and more or less the same results)

[louf]

and its not the spacers in the inner tube assembly?

[JTmofo]

Just for my own sanity, if you lift the front end of the bike up, do you feel any knocking at all as you lift it? That's where I am getting the noise and feeling from.

Also measured at an exact 9mm (plus tried 1mm increments from 7 to 10 and more or less the same results)

I can feel it top out, sometimes with a miniscule audible knock, but not all the time. Pumping and lifting the front over square edges is about the only time I feel/hear it.

The nature of a coil spring in this application is always going to have some noise/feedback vs an air spring.

It's something I expected before purchasing, so its not an issue for me. Coil shocks also have a harsher than air top out, but you rarely top out while on the bike (only when the rear is completely unloaded).

The fork is at that top out position much more often, and when linked directly to your hands through the bars, will feel and sound much more pronounced.

[rjwspeedjunkie]

Is it possible that the damper unit is actually making the top out sound?

and its not the spacers in the inner tube assembly?

No, had that apart a few times and checked all is as it should be. Really hard to explain it all really. The noise is clearly the impact of the travel spacers and the white plastic collar at the bottom on the top out spring - which are two parts that are designed to impact one another

The issue with mine is that regardless of how much preload I use, there is a definite top out clunk - less preload being better than more as the more you add the more the two parts colide with the pressure of the spring. However, when set to minimum preload, I can pick up the front of the bike and really feel the top out as the weight of the front wheel pulls down a few mm, which is then obvious if lifting the front wheel for jumps etc.

[louf]

The issue with mine is that regardless of how much preload I use, there is a definite top out clunk - less preload being better than more as the more you add the more the two parts colide with the pressure of the spring. However, when set to minimum preload, I can pick up the front of the bike and really feel the top out as the weight of the front wheel pulls down a few mm, which is then obvious if lifting the front wheel for jumps etc.

gotcha, the inner tube spring could be longer.

[DoYouEvenRideCoilBro]

So, I know one of the posters on here - the issue appears to have been fixed by following Steves advice and having the bit that should show 8-9mm - show 7mm after speaking to him on the phone. I haven't had the kit in my hand to know what the hell he is talking about really though and ascertain why that fixes it. It's got something to do with getting the preload perfect I think.

[rjwspeedjunkie]

gotcha, the inner tube spring could be longer.

Yes, my initial thought was that the spring needed to be longer / softer and have a rubber bumper, so it would have a less pronounced sound when impacting the spacers and would have a more 'damped' feeling. However, seeing as it just seems to be me with this issue, the design must be fine and it's just something amiss with my setup somehow

I'm confident Steve will get me sorted, but I've literally explored every possible option to resolve and I pride myself on engineering skills and bike setup so I'm interested to see what we end up with.

[DoYouEvenRideCoilBro]

See my above post, try setting the spring collar so that only 7mm of tube is showing.

[rjwspeedjunkie]

Is it possible that the damper unit is actually making the top out sound?

See my above post, try setting it the spring collar so that only 7mm of tube is showing.

Already done that, as per previous posts, I've gone from 7 to 10mm. Having talked it through with Steve it's not as simple to fix as the other reported issue.

[DoYouEvenRideCoilBro]

You stated 8 to 10mm as per the instructions, Steve instructed him to take it down to 7.

EDIT: Sorry just found the bit where you stated 7 to 10.

[rjwspeedjunkie]

You stated 8 to 10mm as per the instructions, Steve instructed him to take it down to 7.

Please read my posts, 7 to 10mm in 1mm increments, I've run through it all in depth with Steve. It's not just on the number of mm either, it's the effective preload on the coil, which I have even gone past and into having no preload.

At this stage, whilst I appreciate the gesture of assistance, I'm happy to leave in the hands of vorsprung to try and figure out as its a pretty simple system and every option has been explored thus far with no avail

[DoYouEvenRideCoilBro]

Yeah, that's fine buddy. Sorry - was just be over eager to try and be helpful. Can't you see I like coils?

[rjwspeedjunkie]

Is it possible that the damper unit is actually making the top out sound?

Yeah, that's fine buddy. Sorry - was just be over eager to try and be helpful. Can't you see I like coils?

No worries man, I do appreciate it and I'm with you on coil! I already had an acs3 and want to change to the smashpot as I prefer the hydraulic damping principal. I'm running an EXT storia on the rear and have already got a V3 version on the way, also with hydraulic bottom out. It will be the best coil combination possible (in my opinion at least)

Also have Ohlins 36 coils / ttx22 on another bike and ttx22 on my dh rig :-)

[DoYouEvenRideCoilBro]

I like the way you think - I'm going with an EXT V3 shock as well, I'm planning on getting the Vorsprung - haven't been put off by this yet. No other reports besides these two and Steves response is awesome. They'll sort it for you, try not to get wound up - I say that because I'm prone to doing so hahah.

Steves really great, the other poster likes him a lot and has been very happy with the response from steve. The poster is just a tired overworked dude who commutes stupid distances who has probably forgotten to update you all on here.

[Steve VS]

Alright, we have managed to replicate and isolate what we believe is causing the knocking in @rjwspeedjunkie's fork - it's basically the relatively wide tolerances on spring lengths meaning that in some assemblies the topout spring may be slightly preloaded by the spacer/plunger that hold it captive. When there's no preload on that topout spring, it's quiet - when there's preload, it makes noise when it contacts and releases. It doesn't seem that any noise is noticeable when riding from what we can ascertain, but pushing up/down on the bars less than 5mm or so may generate it. The amount of preload on the main spring also affects how noticeable it is, and so reducing preload to a minimal amount may cure it entirely in some cases (as per @RobMega275).

The solution here is fairly simple from our end, and anyone who is experiencing this should shoot me an email so we can get you sorted out and on the trails asap. steve at vorsprung suspension dot com

[rjwspeedjunkie]

The v3 will be awesome if the current one is anything to go by, I've had pretty much every shock and this is by far the best of them!

I have every confidence in Steve, we should know in the next couple of days where things are, so fingers crossed it will be something easy! I'm pretty chilled about it, the only thing that stresses me is the fact I've taken the fork apart like 8 times in the last few days and used a lot of fluids in the process - luckily I have a few fresh bottles of everything I need!

[bmwzimmer]

Got my kit in today for a 2019 Lyric RC2
The top cap comes with a spacer preinstalled. Do I just leave the spacer in there or do I remove it? The instructions show a different looking spacer for a Pike 29 application.


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[tkblazer]

Doesnt look you can remove it or its designed not to be removed

[RobMega275]

Yes, it's meant to stay in so leave it alone - my Lyriks feel/sound great now! Just need to get out into the woods!

[Tree]

So how far back did you set the preload? Just enough that the spring doesn't rattle?
What was the reveal on the threads? 5mm?

I have my kit ready to install and just want to make all the fine adjustments to avoid a unnecessary disassembly.

Thanks!

[RobMega275]

No pre-load at all, just touching the spring to avoid vertical movement of the spring (mine can move laterally with light finger force). Get in touch with Steve if you've less than 8mm of thread showing at this point and he'll sort you out.


Mine is spot on now!

[Tree]

Thanks.
I just adjusted mine and in order to get no top out noise I'm at about 6-7mm's of thread showing.

If I go more than that I can compress and release the spring by hand and can hear and feel the top out.
I suppose I could go to 8mm and hopefully the spring will settle a little.


Maybe Steve will chime in.

[RobMega275]

Yes, mine was around the same measurement, email Vorsprung, Steve has a solution.

[alan1]

Alright, we have managed to replicate and isolate what we believe is causing the knocking in @rjwspeedjunkie's fork - it's basically the relatively wide tolerances on spring lengths meaning that in some assemblies the topout spring may be slightly preloaded by the spacer/plunger that hold it captive. When there's no preload on that topout spring, it's quiet - when there's preload, it makes noise when it contacts and releases. It doesn't seem that any noise is noticeable when riding from what we can ascertain, but pushing up/down on the bars less than 5mm or so may generate it. The amount of preload on the main spring also affects how noticeable it is, and so reducing preload to a minimal amount may cure it entirely in some cases (as per @RobMega275).

The solution here is fairly simple from our end, and anyone who is experiencing this should shoot me an email so we can get you sorted out and on the trails asap. steve at vorsprung suspension dot com

Do you have the spring length so I can check before fitting Steve.

[RobMega275]

Alan,

No need to measure just fit as I described and if there's less than 8mm of thread showing Steve will be able to sort you out, as he has done very promptly for me. PM me if you like.

[alan1]

Alan,

No need to measure just fit as I described and if there's less than 8mm of thread showing Steve will be able to sort you out, as he has done very promptly for me. PM me if you like.

RobMega275, I am getting the kit fitted by a local shop, so would be handy to know before I get the kit fitted, can I check this out without fitting in the fork.

[Steve VS]

Got my kit in today for a 2019 Lyric RC2
The top cap comes with a spacer preinstalled. Do I just leave the spacer in there or do I remove it? The instructions show a different looking spacer for a Pike 29 application.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That isn't a spacer, that's just the top cap - install as is.

Thanks.
I just adjusted mine and in order to get no top out noise I'm at about 6-7mm's of thread showing.

If I go more than that I can compress and release the spring by hand and can hear and feel the top out.
I suppose I could go to 8mm and hopefully the spring will settle a little.


Maybe Steve will chime in.

Do you already have it installed in the fork? Outside the fork with no oil in it you will always be able to hear something, but inside the fork it should be pretty quiet.

Do you have the spring length so I can check before fitting Steve.

Springs on their own are nearly impossible to measure accurately enough here - what you want to check is whether you can freely move the topout spring and the spacer behind it by hand. It should be able to turn freely with zero preload (some float is also acceptable). If not, email me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's usually fine to have a few millimetres of preload on the main spring, that is not a big deal in and of itself unless the fork is noisy. The topout noise is due to the topout spring itself being preloaded when it should not be, which can be exacerbated by main spring preload. In cases where the topout spring preload is low enough, running the main spring preload very close to zero may result in it being quiet (as was the case for @RobMega275). If the topout spring preload is higher though, then some noise may be noticeable no matter what your main spring preload is set to. It is normal for the main spring to engage the spring collar prior to the 8-10mm of thread being exposed.

If your topout spring and spacer can rotate freely on the shaft with no substantial force (some float is fine too), proceed with the installation as per the instructions, it'll be fine. If not, shoot me an email and we'll get you out the replacement topout spacer and the installation tool within a day or two. It'll come with extra heat shrink for those concerned about removing/reinstalling that.

If you've already installed the kit and there is no unacceptable noise, or the main spring preload can be adjusted within the 8-10mm limits for no noise, you're all good - go ride.

[rjwspeedjunkie]

Just to confirm, the fix advised to me by Steve has sorted my issue. The whole setup is now in the fork, absolutely silent and working a treat.

Glad I persevered, first ride today and it's an awesome bit of kit, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

If you do have the same issue with top out noise, ping Steve an email and he will hook you up.

Thanks again Steve!

[alan1]

Steve can I do a dry install, just to check before taking to the shop, I dont have all the tools.

[Steve VS]

Steve can I do a dry install, just to check before taking to the shop, I dont have all the tools.

Just check the topout spring preload as mentioned previously and email me if it's at all tight to turn - if it is, we'll get you the necessary fix en route.

[bmwzimmer]

It’s Done, the bike is now Full coil front and rear!!

The spring rate (45lbs) feels pretty good for my weight. I’m a bit under 160lbs fully geared up.

With the weight gain up front, the bike actually feels more balanced than before as the rear end of my bike is quite heavy with a coil shock and a 250g Tire Insert.

Can’t wait to try it out





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[JTmofo]

It’s Done, the bike is now Full coil front and rear!!

The spring rate (45lbs) feels pretty good for my weight. I’m a bit under 160lbs fully geared up.

With the weight gain up front, the bike actually feels more balanced than before as the rear end of my bike is quite heavy with a coil shock and a 250g Tire Insert.

Can’t wait to try it out





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Sweet. Enjoy man!

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[Tree]

Is there any negative effects if I run the preload collar set at 6-7mm's of thread showing?

[Steve VS]

Is there any negative effects if I run the preload collar set at 6-7mm's of thread showing?

Yes - not enough thread insertion in the top cap is the main one.

[bmwzimmer]

Went for a ride this morning and have some feedback/impressions

Installation:

- Easy and straight forward but my Top cap is a little beat up because who the heck has a 28mm flattened socket handy? I have a 24mm socket for rockshock top caps but no 28mm so had to settle for an adjustable wrench. To make matters worse, I tightened the top cap down and realized I forgot to add 120ml of oil so I had to remove it and reinstall it with the wrench. A 28mm socket is now on order and in my Amazon basket.
- Heat Shrink tubing won’t shrink with a standard Hair Blow Drier. You need more heat than that. I have an electric stove that heat the tubing nice and evenly
- I didn’t have any cone wrenches handy so I had to use needle nose pliers and estimate the torque. My arms are calibrated to +/- 10 in-lbs.

Setup:

- I’m 145-150lbs naked, 155-160lbs geared up with water.
- 45lb Spring, 1 Click of HSC (0 clicks is easiest, 4 clicks is highest/most resistance)
- 3 clicks of LSC (0 is easiest or most supple, 18ish is highest/more supportive)
- 7 Click of Rebound (7 from the slowest)
- Smashpot Bottom out Resistance is 6 clicks from the least bottom out resistance.

Appearance:

- Looks good, high quality!!
- The Orange Vorsprung sticker is too big/long and doesn’t wrap around very well.
- The Orange Color is terrible with a red bike/fork but I’ll just live with it. Those stickers are supposed to help shave off a couple seconds off your strava times!!
- The Larger Black sticker looks Nice

Weight:

- My Lyric weighed 2050g
- Air Spring components on my 2019 Lyric weighed only 90-95g. (170mm Debonair Airspring (58g), nut at the bottom, C-clip, Topcap, 1 volume spacer, 10ml of oil)
- Smashpot with a bit of Sram Butter on the springs weighed 550g.
- 120ml of suspension oil weighs about 96g (assuming a density of .8Kg/Liter)
- Total weight is about 2600g.

Climbing:

- The fork is very active when pedaling. I have my Shock set to a firm climbing mode and usually never touch my fork. My climbing Segments on Strava are not any faster nor slower but I felt a bit more tired in the climbs today. It could be the added weight or more than likely it’s me not riding as often since it’s been raining a lot lately.
- Increasing LSC on the fork does pretty much nothing for climbing. I see the fork moving with pretty much every pedal stroke. It didn’t do that with air since it used to be a lot stickier. Surprisingly, increasing HSC helped reduce pedal induced bob more than LSC. Weird…..

Descending:

- Way less arm pump
- Buttery Smooth and tracks the ground like crazy. Excellent support in both midstroke and end stroke.
- The fork’s movement throughout the travel is seamless and smooth. No unusual noises or anything.
- Most Coil forks I’ve tried feel kind of dead to me. They soak up the trail well but I didn’t like how they feel when pumping and jumping. This fork somehow feels more lively and supportive when pumping and jumping. The fun factor is definitely there
- It has a “lively” air like characteristic when pumping and jumping. Makes the trail more fun but at the same time, just eats up the rough stuff too.

Other Observations:

- After initial installation, the fork felt pretty smooth and better than air but the stiction was not as good as an ACS3 I tried. However, by about midway through the first ride, it feels like it’s gotten a chance to break in and the breakaway force now feels identical.
- The breakaway force when pressing straight down on the handlebars to get the seals to break stiction on the ACS3 and the Smashpot is about 5-10lbs. A just serviced 2019 Lyric takes about 10-15lbs. A Lyric after a month of use drops down to 20-25lbs.
- I tried slowing down the rebound just 1 click (from 7 to 6) and it felt pretty good.
- Did a couple 4 ft drops and it felt good. The progression at the end works really well. Ended up with about 15mm left of travel on the fork so I think my spring rate is SPOT ON. I can tweak compression and play with the smashpot knob if needed for bike park days


Overall the biggest take away for me isn't the fork's ability to soak up the trail, that's kind of expected for a coil shock. It's the combination of eating up the trail while feeling smooth and lively. It doesn't feel dead.
It's biggest negative is the weight. It's going to be pretty much the heaviest Enduro Coil fork out there. I attached the weight of a Push coil for reference.

[Carl Mega]

^nice review. Literally just placed my order as my target fork just arrived and checked out. I'm not even set on the frame platform yet but this product spoke to me from first moment I saw it. Pretty stoked. 180mm lyrik...braaap.

[tkblazer]

Great write up and I’m jealous you got to sneak out to oaks for a ride yesterday. Just my luck I wake up with a cold on the day before local storms are going to hit.

[bmwzimmer]

Great write up and I’m jealous you got to sneak out to oaks for a ride yesterday. Just my luck I wake up with a cold on the day before local storms are going to hit.

Nice, i’m down the street from Oaks. Yea i went to work at 10:00 instead of 8:00 this morning to get a ride in before the rain!!



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[B Rabbit]

So 2 short rides in, I went for the softer spring for my weight, think I’ll go medium now. 180mm Fox 36, 40lbs spring, will go the 45. Fork feels incredible active and smooth. I ain’t going back to air.
I do have some top out clunk and some midstroke knock/noise so fork will come apart for checking when I put in the heavier spring rate.

[Erotomania]

So 2 short rides in, I went for the softer spring for my weight, think I’ll go medium now. 180mm Fox 36, 40lbs spring, will go the 45. Fork feels incredible active and smooth. I ain’t going back to air.
I do have some top out clunk and some midstroke knock/noise so fork will come apart for checking when I put in the heavier spring rate.

I’m between the 40 and 45 lb spring @ 180mm. What do you weigh?

[B Rabbit]

I’m between the 40 and 45 lb spring @ 180mm. What do you weigh?

I'm about 80kgs

[JTmofo]

I started getting some knocking and squeaking noises from the Smashpot this mor ing during a ride.
Got home and whipped out the spring. The heat shrink had migrated to the bottom of the spring.

Note to the installers: Ensure the heat shrink is fully shrunk at the 100mm mark.

This was installed error on my part, Smashpot is working flawlessly and feels amazing.



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[Chris2fur]

Okay, while we are discussing springs, I'm going to add my 2 cents in case it's helpful to anyone else. I'm about 154 so figured about 10 lbs more in gear and water. Running 140mm travel Pike. Went with "medium setup" recommendation of 55 lb spring for 140mm travel and 165 lb rider weight. Also ordered a 60 lb spring "just in case." Well, I think it's a reflection of my poor riding skills/slow speed, but the 55 lb spring is super stiff for me. Only getting maybe 40% off the travel at the most with hydraulic bottom out knob backed out all the way. Maybe Steve is used to working with hard core riders at Whistler? Monster drops, etc... That is definitely not me and I've now ordered a 50 lb and a 45 lb spring.

[Condor[ger]]

I seems like Vorsprung springrate suggestions are for body weight only. Steve wrote that somewhere if i remember correctly, i guess it was on instagram. There should be a small hint on the website.
I used the push acs3 spring chart to be safe (they seem to use body weight + never go full enduro kit)

[B Rabbit]

One thing I learnt from the MRP Ribbon coil thread is people of the same weight and fork travel can have vastly different results on the same spring rate.
And that is just a fact of life of running a coil, front or back, it can take a couple of goes to find the right spring rate (which can be expensive), but when you do you wont have to think about it again

[robmac48]

I seems like Vorsprung springrate suggestions are for body weight only. Steve wrote that somewhere if i remember correctly, i guess it was on instagram. There should be a small hint on the website.
I used the push acs3 spring chart to be safe (they seem to use body weight + never go full enduro kit)

From Instagram..
littleeric15
@vorsprungsuspension your spring chart quotes 'rider weight' is that in the buff, or fully clothed with shoes and backpack/fanny pack on?

vorsprungsuspension
@littleeric15 generally just body weight unless you ride with a fairly heavy pack

[Steve VS]

Okay, while we are discussing springs, I'm going to add my 2 cents in case it's helpful to anyone else. I'm about 154 so figured about 10 lbs more in gear and water. Running 140mm travel Pike. Went with "medium setup" recommendation of 55 lb spring for 140mm travel and 165 lb rider weight. Also ordered a 60 lb spring "just in case." Well, I think it's a reflection of my poor riding skills/slow speed, but the 55 lb spring is super stiff for me. Only getting maybe 40% off the travel at the most with hydraulic bottom out knob backed out all the way. Maybe Steve is used to working with hard core riders at Whistler? Monster drops, etc... That is definitely not me and I've now ordered a 50 lb and a 45 lb spring.

Thanks for the feedback Chris - sorry our recommendations weren't on the ball for you! Big compressions where you can put your whole body weight heavily through the fork for more than just a fraction of a second tend to be where the most travel is used (not necessarily drops or jumps, you can definitely do this without leaving the ground, but you're right that this is a common thing up in BC) so the terrain you're riding tends to play a big part in that.

The faster and more open the trails you're on, the more kinetic energy you have to ram through the suspension travel, so basically really open/fast trails with big g-outs in them are where people tend to overload the suspension travel the most. If your trails tend to be slower and/or don't have a ton of those big compressions in them, then a softer spring may stand you in good stead.

For those curious - yes the chart works off body weight alone, it already makes allowances for bike and (minimal) gear weight, basically clothing + kneepads + helmet + shoes. If you carry around a fairly substantial amount of gear in a pack then consider adding that, but otherwise fresh out of the shower weight.

[ghostbiker]

Thanks for the feedback Chris - sorry our recommendations weren't on the ball for you! Big compressions where you can put your whole body weight heavily through the fork for more than just a fraction of a second tend to be where the most travel is used (not necessarily drops or jumps, you can definitely do this without leaving the ground, but you're right that this is a common thing up in BC) so the terrain you're riding tends to play a big part in that.

The faster and more open the trails you're on, the more kinetic energy you have to ram through the suspension travel, so basically really open/fast trails with big g-outs in them are where people tend to overload the suspension travel the most. If your trails tend to be slower and/or don't have a ton of those big compressions in them, then a softer spring may stand you in good stead.

For those curious - yes the chart works off body weight alone, it already makes allowances for bike and (minimal) gear weight, basically clothing + kneepads + helmet + shoes. If you carry around a fairly substantial amount of gear in a pack then consider adding that, but otherwise fresh out of the shower weight.

Hi there Steve, I hink it would be cool if you could use comparison in the chart to get better idea, like if you have RS lyrik, pike etc., with no tokens and recommended pressures are right, than Vorsprung chart will be spot on , if you have to add more pressure than recommended, go one spring rate higher etc., there must be some pattern and most people have air pressures dialed to their liking, so it would be more accurate I think.

[Erotomania]

Hi there Steve, I hink it would be cool if you could use comparison in the chart to get better idea, like if you have RS lyrik, pike etc., with no tokens and recommended pressures are right, than Vorsprung chart will be spot on , if you have to add more pressure than recommended, go one spring rate higher etc., there must be some pattern and most people have air pressures dialed to their liking, so it would be more accurate I think.

I think the only way to figure out the right spring rate is trial and error. You can study and calculate all day, but it won’t give you a definite answer. Unfortunately, that just adds more hassle and cost to running a coil. Still well worth it IMO.

[JTmofo]

I think the only way to figure out the right spring rate is trial and error. You can study and calculate all day, but it won’t give you a definite answer. Unfortunately, that just adds more hassle and cost to running a coil. Still well worth it IMO.

Maybe we should set up a spring swap arrangement?

Someone needs a lighter/heavier spring, swap with someone who needs the opposite?





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[rjwspeedjunkie]

I have a 60lb spring I don't need if anyone uk based wants it - no need for a swap, I have what I need already, but happy to help someone out if you cover the cost of shipping!